Irish referendum on right to citizenship

sovtek

johnathan woss wrote: »

The Irish have made a great contribution to Britain over the years and have integrated there thoroughly.
.

How is that different to immigrants to Ireland exactly?

samsham

sovtek wrote: »

How is that different to immigrants to Ireland exactly?

In fact there is very little difference, but reading here I am led to believe that even working emigrants are a burden on our economy. I just don't see how anyone can justify that comment. Just pointing our there are success stories too. In fact in the UK it would be hard to identify a foreigner. Just like most of Europe it is multi-cultural.

johnathan woss

It's clearly different.

We were essentially the same country for hundreds of years.
Same language.
Same culture.
Same values.
Same or similar religions.
Shared history.

samsham

johnathan woss wrote: »

It's clearly different.

We were essentially the same country for hundreds of years.
Same language.
Same culture.
Same values.
Same or similar religions.
Shared history.

WOW! That's a whole new debate. Essentially the UK and Ireland were the same country. Same religion, values and culture. Now that's some statement. Can't believe you really believe that. The British Empire crossed the globe. The UK is a land of many cultures values and languages. What ever about our shared history, as a people we are poles apart.

oscarBravo

johnathan woss wrote: »

It's clearly different.

We were essentially the same country for hundreds of years.
Same language.
Same culture.
Same values.
Same or similar religions.
Shared history.

So basically, immigration is OK as long as the immigrants are sufficiently similar to the existing population. Once they start to look, sound and act differently, immigration becomes a problem.

Am I allowed to use the x-word yet? Because that's pretty much a textbook definition of it.

samsham

oscarBravo wrote: »

So basically, immigration is OK as long as the immigrants are sufficiently similar to the existing population. Once they start to look, sound and act differently, immigration becomes a problem.

Am I allowed to use the x-word yet? Because that's pretty much a textbook definition of it.

pretty much what I have been saying here. It only became a problem when Africans started reaching these shores.

Nodin

johnathan woss wrote: »

It's clearly different.

We were essentially the same country for hundreds of years.
Same language.
Same culture.
Same values.
Same or similar religions.
Shared history.

Ahem.....

'Dey tuk r Jawbs (but itz ok coz theyz whiteyz like uz)'

Well, at least you just came out and said it, as oppossed to the 'nothing against them BUT...' brigade we get a lot of.

johnathan woss

samsham wrote: »

What ever about our shared history, as a people we are poles apart.

The Irish and Brits are poles apart ?

Really? How?

I've been in many places in England and never really felt like I was in another country.

We essentially have the same culture and way of life.

johnathan woss

oscarBravo wrote: »

, immigration is OK as long as the immigrants are sufficiently similar to the existing population.

Well it's easier for the immigrants to assimilate, obviously.

That's self-evident.


Do you think the role of immigration should be to fundamentally CHANGE the host country's culture ?

johnathan woss

Nodin wrote: »

Well, at least you just came out and said it, as oppossed to the 'nothing against them BUT...' brigade we get a lot of.

What have I "come out and said" ?
I've stated the obvious.

opo

oscarBravo wrote: »

So basically, immigration is OK as long as the immigrants are sufficiently similar to the existing population. Once they start to look, sound and act differently, immigration becomes a problem.

Am I allowed to use the x-word yet? Because that's pretty much a textbook definition of it.

Since when did you bother ask for permission?

samsham

johnathan woss wrote: »

The Irish and Brits are poles apart ?

Really? How?

I've been in many places in England and never really felt like I was in another country.

We essentially have the same culture and way of life.

Well I am kind of stunned at the notion you somehow think if I
married a girl from Britian it would be more acceptable to you
than an Asian woman, who actually lived in a former British colony.
Speaks English is Catholic and has a similar history to ours. As for
your notion were are the same country, Some guys in the BNP and
in Scotland dont share your opinion. Ireland has a great culture as
has the Uk. But in fairness the uk has more cultures that white,
catholic and European.

A Primal Nut

samsham wrote: »

A lot of people taught the same as you. Children born in Ireland will always have citizenship. regarding my child. If anything was to happen to me my child has the right to live in Ireland, but her mother does not. You hardly think the mother would leave her here alone. The mother can be deported. which means the child goes too. I don't think thats fair. Do you

Your situation has nothing to do with the referendum.

1) The referendum was whether or not children with no Irish parents become citizens. Children with no Irish parents would henceforth not be citizens.

2) Your child has one Irish parent therefore he/she is a citizen.

Therefore, the referendum has nothing to do with your situation. Your child becomes a citizen either way. The question of whether the mother becomes a citizen or whether she can be deported has nothing to do with the referendum which only concerned the child.

The implications of the referendum were that if the child was a citizen the mother has a legal right to stay.

Regardless of referendum outcome being yes or no, it doesn't effect you. Your child is a citizen therefore the mother has a legal right to stay. The referendum only concerns children whose parents are both non-Irish.

devereaux17

johnathan woss wrote: »

It's clearly different.

We were essentially the same country for hundreds of years.
Same language.
Same culture.
Same values.
Same or similar religions.
Shared history.

Moron.

West-Brit idiot.

Go to Northern Ireland and see how your analogy is completely debunked you mong.

devereaux17

johnathan woss wrote: »

The Irish have made a great contribution to Britain over the years and have integrated there thoroughly.
You will meet many English people who have Irish parents or grand-parents but who are TOTALLY English.

I think your personal position is making you bitter towards Irish people in general. That is regrettable but it certainly won't encourage anyone to look at your situation differently.
Bad cases make for bad laws.

How about giving immigrant groups in Ireland a 100 years and come back to me you ****ing gimp.

but ah sure i'll be banned now won't i :rolleyes:

fast forward 50 years

The Nigerians have made a great contribution to Ireland over the years and have integrated there thoroughly.
You will meet many Irish people who have Nigerian parents or grand-parents but who are TOTALLY Irish.

For the record many Irish people would never identify themselves as English despite being born in England yet this is admirable and praised by people in this country but for any other other group to do this is frowned upon.

samsham

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Your situation has nothing to do with the referendum.

1) The referendum was whether or not children with no Irish parents become citizens. Children with no Irish parents would henceforth not be citizens.

2) Your child has one Irish parent therefore he/she is a citizen.

Therefore, the referendum has nothing to do with your situation. Your child becomes a citizen either way. The question of whether the mother becomes a citizen or whether she can be deported has nothing to do with the referendum which only concerned the child.

The implications of the referendum were that if the child was a citizen the mother has a legal right to stay.

Regardless of referendum outcome being yes or no, it doesn't effect you. Your child is a citizen therefore the mother has a legal right to stay. The referendum only concerns children whose parents are both non-Irish.

wrong if the Irish parent no longer exists trough death or divorce, there in the same circumstance the mother can be deported.

opo

samsham wrote: »

Still you just send an Irish citizen packing back to the slums of god knows where.

OK.

So now we know you don't have the brains to sort out some life insurance that would probably translate into an opulent lifestyle in whatever slum ridden cesspit you imagine your wife lived in - in the highly unlikly event she were expelled there with her Irish citizen child.

johnathan woss

devereaux17 wrote: »

Moron.

West-Brit idiot.

Go to Northern Ireland and see how your analogy is completely debunked you mong.

I'm a West Brit why ?
Because I don't hate Britain ?

samsham

opo wrote: »

OK.

So now we know you don't have the brains to sort out some life insurance that would probably translate into an opulent lifestyle in whatever slum ridden cesspit you imagine your wife lived in - in the highly unlikly event she were expelled there with her Irish citizen child.

Hang on a moment, even if my circumstance allows my wife a good future.
I am not simply blinded to people in similar circumstances who might be less
fortunate. My point here was this policy was aimed at Africans which is racist.
When you lose a debate you resort to insults. Am I not entitled to raise concerns?

devereaux17

Yes liking Britian would make you a west-brit, good one there. fool.

I like UK, especially London its a real cool diverse place, immigrants contributed to make it that cool and diverse place we see today.

PaulieD

devereaux17 wrote: »

Yes liking Britian would make you a west-brit, good one there. fool.

I like UK, especially London its a real cool diverse place, immigrants contributed to make it that cool and diverse place we see today.

I dont think London is a good advertisement for the multicult. London is suffering a crime epidemic. Knife crime is through the roof. Many parts of London are ghettos. White flight is rife.

It maybe a "cool" place to visit once every so often, but I would not live there for love nor money.

opo

samsham wrote: »

Hang on a moment, even if my circumstance allows my wife a good future.
I am not simply blinded to people in similar circumstances who might be less
fortunate. My point here was this policy was aimed at Africans which is racist.
When you lose a debate you resort to insults. Am I not entitled to raise concerns?

Really?

Please quote the relevant african-specific text.

You are entitled to raise concerns, however, your are not entitled to conclude you have won any debate based on an observation that you are fundamentally derelict in not providing for your child - given your overplayed concerns.

I provide for my childern even if I die - at a cost. I don't throw bouquets at myself for doing it nor do I post on internet forums - idiotic concerns that others are not doing it for me because they are "racists" or otherwise not unusually compelled to do so.

devereaux17

Well many Irish would disagree, despite UK being in a recession I have heard of many Irish who have moved there in the last while. Its a city of great opportunity, hence it will always receive immigrants. If Dublin ever has the same pull as London then I'll know the city has developed well(because lets be real Dublin is the only multicultural place in Ireland and even then its predominently native)

What about the many parts of Dublin that are 99% 'native' which suffer from terrible crime, is that a bad advertisement of the 'native' irish?

samsham

PaulieD wrote: »

I dont think London is a good advertisement for the multicult. London is suffering a crime epidemic. Knife crime is through the roof. Many parts of London are ghettos. White flight is rife.

It maybe a "cool" place to visit once every so often, but I would not live there for love nor money.

Well I managed to live in Harlesden for a good few years. Never attacked.
Made pension contributions there too. just for that other post.

PaulieD

samsham wrote: »

Hang on a moment, even if my circumstance allows my wife a good future.
I am not simply blinded to people in similar circumstances who might be less
fortunate. My point here was this policy was aimed at Africans which is racist.
When you lose a debate you resort to insults. Am I not entitled to raise concerns?

Immigration controls and the closing of loopholes is racist now is it? Please stop throwing the race card around, it is not doing you any favours. If you came onto this thread, asked for help and listened to others I would be the first to help you lobby the relevant minister to make an exception to the rule for your case.

Australia is like fort knox for immigrants, everybody is screened, any serious previous convictions and you wont get in, any contagious diseases and you wont get in, no means to support yourself and you wont get in, if they suspect you will work there illegally you wont get in, if you previously overstayed a visa by a day you wont get in.

Is that a racist immigration policy or just common sense? I would go with the latter. As an island we could learn a lot from them.

PaulieD

devereaux17 wrote: »

Well many Irish would disagree, despite UK being in a recession I have heard of many Irish who have moved there in the last while. Its a city of great opportunity, hence it will always receive immigrants. If Dublin ever has the same pull as London then I'll know the city has developed well(because lets be real Dublin is the only multicultural place in Ireland and even then its predominently native)

What about the many parts of Dublin that are 99% 'native' which suffer from terrible crime, is that a bad advertisement of the 'native' irish?

Hang on, whats wrong with Dublin being "predominently native"? Do you want fair immigration controls or the Irish to become a minority in their own country?

"I like Nigeria, great country and all, but its too predominently native."

See my point?

It seems to me you just dont want mass immigration, you want to change Irish society by importing anyone and everyone. Prey tell, where will they all work?

devereaux17

Ireland does have a strict immigration policy.

Obviously in reality 100,000 Polish people is a lot and would really change the country but the reality is we are in the EU and thus are not technically immigrants, more migrants, yes we could have closed our borders to accession states but sooner or later they would have been opened anyway. One of the main principles of EU is 'free movement' so without that its pretty pointless.

samsham

opo wrote: »

Really?

Please quote the relevant african-specific text.

You are entitled to raise concerns, however, your are not entitled to conclude you have won any debate based on an observation that you are fundamentally derelict in not providing for your child - given your overplayed concerns.

I provide for my childern even if I die - at a cost. I don't throw bouquets at myself for doing it nor do I post on internet forums - idiotic concerns that others are not doing it for me because they are "racists" or otherwise not unusually compelled to do so.

A massive number of Nigerians have immigrated to Ireland. The previous Minister for Justice stated that no amnesty was to be granted to these people, yet a scheme was designed to allow them remain in Ireland called the IBC/05 scheme.


This scheme granted the right of full welfare benefits to these immigrants.

Whats wrong with you, you not reading the posts. If you think you can
proved for your kids even if the worse happens, you alone or very naive.

devereaux17

PaulieD wrote: »

Hang on, whats wrong with Dublin being "predominently native"? Do you want fair immigration controls or the Irish to become a minority in their own country?

"I like Nigeria, great country and all, but its too predominently native."

See my point?

It seems to me you just dont want mass immigration, you want to change Irish society by importing anyone and everyone. Prey tell, where will they all work?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

thats all that post deserves, there is nothing wrong(or right) about dublin being predominently 'native'(of course native referring to anyone with a gael surname, norse surname, english surname, scottish surname. french anglicised surname)

Oh and any succesful country(or city) will receive immigrants, London has far more prestige than Dublin, its a world city, a cultural melting pot and if Dublin is doing well it will need immigrants.

opo

samsham wrote: »

A massive number of Nigerians have immigrated to Ireland. The previous Minister for Justice stated that no amnesty was to be granted to these people, yet a scheme was designed to allow them remain in Ireland called the IBC/05 scheme.


This scheme granted the right of full welfare benefits to these immigrants.

Whats wrong with you, you not reading the posts. If you think you can
proved for your kids even if the worse happens, you alone or very naive.

I have provided for my childern as a responsible adult.

Do NOT try suggest otherwise.

Be a man for God's sake and do the same and stop acting like the troll I suspect you are.