European Elections Poll

Jugs82

skelliser wrote: »

Thats a given but add in a smiley headed elected Ganley and its even more bad news for ff.

And for the Galway, North-West, Ireland...

Better ways to vent your frustration with FF like not voting for them!!

skelliser

Jugs82 wrote: »

And for the Galway, North-West, Ireland...

and what exactly have the current crop been doing for the last 5 years!
I only heard of paschel mooney for the first time when i saw his ugly face on a poster. What has he been doing for the last 5 years!

Its clear as daylight that the nw has missed alot of the eu structural funding, the vast majority heading to the pale. I'm tempted to say that an elected ganley would actually but us on the political map and secure us more funding if only to appease him. Which they will just to shut him up.
If you cant beat them, pay them off!

Jugs82

skelliser wrote: »

and what exactly have the current crop been doing for the last 5 years!
I only heard of paschel mooney for the first time when i saw his ugly face on a poster. What has he been doing for the last 5 years!

Its clear as daylight that the nw has missed alot of the eu structural funding, the vast majority heading to the pale. I'm tempted to say that an elected ganley would actually but us on the political map and secure us more funding if only to appease him. Which they will just to shut him up.
If you cant beat them, pay them off!

Thats some interesting logic..

However, you do have a fair point that we dont see our MEP's until election time and most of what they do is a mystery - this does need to be addressed!

Still, i have heard that Harkin is quiet good and has done alot during her terms, especially hear for the farming community, carers, one off planning - i.e. People building their own homes

toiletduck

Jugs82 wrote: »

Still alot of people who have problems with SF - The whole emergence of Libertas scares me and TBH im delighted that the polls have them going so badly across Europe - remember Ganley predicted over a 100 seats, then creating a Libertas group within European parliment - he's now predicting 6 which is still wildly optimistic IMO

Its the ties to the US military, their stance on Immigration, their financial backing - where does it come from, their blantant manipulation of situations to gain votes (Shell to Sea, Fishing rights, immigration etc..) Also, their policies and v.wishy-washy (forgive the english) - Libertas Policies - littered with typo's i may add

Also on their homepage - they have Transparency and Accountability as two key principles - where is the transparency within Libertas itself?

Whatever you may think about the Lisbon treaty, i dont think been No to Lisbon should become Yes to Libertas

Oh I know and agree somewhat. Just wondering why you'd be surprised at people overlooking this and giving them a tick, when they overlook far worse in other parties.

cornbb

I'm also going for Harkin as I heard her debate with the other candidates and she came across as honest and dignified and it appears that she has had some good achievements in the EP to date. I have personally found it very difficult to get a clear idea of who is who and what they do during this campaign, no-one takes much notice of MEPs until election time.

I also agree that we'll never know what someone will be like until they are elected, and its still difficult to grasp the work they do after they are elected given that the workings of the EP are not as familiar as the workings of, say, the Dail.

Ganley has already put us on the political map, and for all the wrong reasons. Across the UK and Eastern Europe he is attracting accolades from various right-wing and Euroskeptic groups. If the company he keeps is any sign of what his policies what might be like as an MEP (and he sure as hell hasn't told us himself in any clear terms what his policies might be) then I am certain that he would be a destructive force for Ireland and the EU. He certainly got off to a good start with that by leading the campaign to stop the Lisbon treaty.

toiletduck

So Ganley's leading the poll here and The Cope hasn't gotten one vote, yup this will be very representative :pac:

Hopefully this isn't representative. If it rains on Friday it might keep away some of the Ganley crowd.

I'm voting Harkin again and will fill out the ballot except for SF and Libertas.
Harkin is a member of the Liberal group in the parliament.

skelliser

Deleted User wrote: »

Harkin is a member of the Liberal group in the parliament.

and so are ff.

cornbb

toiletduck wrote: »

So Ganley's leading the poll here and The Cope hasn't gotten one vote, yup this will be very representative :pac:

The Cope supporters have never heard of the internet but they are the demographic who are most likely to go out and vote probably :pac:

PopeBuckfastXVI

skelliser wrote: »

I'm tempted to say that an elected ganley would actually but us on the political map and secure us more funding if only to appease him. Which they will just to shut him up.
If you cant beat them, pay them off!

That's making a mistake on his intentions in my opinion. He's not out to create a fuss for the benefit of the North West, he's out to create a fuss for the detriment of the EU. Who's to say he'll even lobby for the NW, he's quite blatently got bigger fish to fry with the whole structure of the EU.

Even if he did set out to get anything for NW it's as likely as your scenario that pro EU MEP's (the vast majority) wouldn't give him the steam off their p*ss, which means we in the North West get f*ck all, to spite him. One bad turn deserves another after all.

Is it worth the risk when there are other non-FF candidates in the field?

skelliser

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

That's making a mistake on his intentions in my opinion. He's not out to create a fuss for the benefit of the North West, he's out to create a fuss for the detriment of the EU. Who's to say he'll even lobby for the NW, he's quite blatently got bigger fish to fry with the whole structure of the EU.

Even if he did set out to get anything for NW it's as likely as your scenario that pro EU MEP's (the vast majority) wouldn't give him the steam off their p*ss, which means we in the North West get f*ck all, to spite him. One bad turn deserves another after all.

Is it worth the risk when there are other non-FF candidates in the field?

So you would rather have the status qou minus ff?

PopeBuckfastXVI

skelliser wrote: »

So you would rather have the status qou minus ff?

I'd rather have the Union status quo than Ganleys vision of it.

I consider Ganley to be significently worse for NW than any other option.

He's worst of a bad lot, rather than the other way round in my opinion.

scottledeuce

skelliser wrote: »

I'm tempted to say that an elected ganley would actually but us on the political map and secure us more funding if only to appease him. Which they will just to shut him up.
If you cant beat them, pay them off!

Seriously FFS, Why would this guy suddenly decide to benefit the North West now.
He seems to have spent most of his life making money in Eastern Europe and Russia

What aboout Ganley's BFF and Libertas's major backer Ulick McEvaddy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulick_McEvaddy,

A man with 10 years background in covert intelligence,
who's current company, Omega Air, depends almost entirely upon the business of the US military and who has already failed to open up knock airport to the US military.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0114/knock.html

Even if I didnt have a sensible bone in my body I'd still think there was something up with these guys,
I mean there just aren't a large number of Irish people who happen to own companies whose major business is providing extremely sensitive services to the US military and intelligence community.

And thats before I start on their policy's which PopeBuckfastXVI seems to have covered pretty well.
I mean punish FF by all means but don't think this guy is going to do anything for the North west

ZorbaTehZ

Harkin #1, intelligent woman with solid principles, and a great speaker to boot!

Ganley has 10 on the pole... for ****s sake tbh. :mad:

sgthighway

Please don't consider voting for Declan Ganley on what you read on his posters. Take time to research him. He is loaded and buying his way into Politics. No track record. Vote anybody but Ganley and FF.

skelliser

scottledeuce wrote: »

Seriously FFS, Why would this guy suddenly decide to benefit the North West now.
He seems to have spent most of his life making money in Eastern Europe and Russia

What aboout Ganley's BFF and Libertas's major backer Ulick McEvaddy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulick_McEvaddy,

A man with 10 years background in covert intelligence,
who's current company, Omega Air, depends almost entirely upon the business of the US military and who has already failed to open up knock airport to the US military.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0114/knock.html

Even if I didnt have a sensible bone in my body I'd still think there was something up with these guys,
I mean there just aren't a large number of Irish people who happen to own companies whose major business is providing extremely sensitive services to the US military and intelligence community.

Im well aware of mcevadys background.
but i think you're being a tad hypocritical, look at shannon, you would be forgiven for thinking its an american air force base.
Now im no supporter of gaaw and i dont mind the yanks using shannon in fact i think its a necessary evil. Yet you berate a business man who has spooky type friends while turning a blind eye to ~150,000 american troops per year, countless hundreds of tonnes of equipment and how many rendition flights? to pass through irish airspace.

toiletduck

Well the militarily flights did manage to keep Shannon afloat!

sgthighway wrote: »

Vote anybody but Ganley and FF.

I'd vote for either before giving anything to SF tbh, and that's saying something.

ionix5891

skelliser wrote: »

Im well aware of mcevadys background.
but i think you're being a tad hypocritical, look at shannon, you would be forgiven for thinking its an american air force base.

so because the current FF lot are bad, its ok to elect another bad lot in the form of Libertas??

does not compute

hey ive no love for FF but at least they have a track record and you know where they stand

scottledeuce

skelliser wrote: »

Im well aware of mcevadys background.
but i think you're being a tad hypocritical, look at shannon, you would be forgiven for thinking its an american air force base.
Now im no supporter of gaaw and i dont mind the yanks using shannon in fact i think its a necessary evil. Yet you berate a business man who has spooky type friends while turning a blind eye to ~150,000 american troops per year, countless hundreds of tonnes of equipment and how many rendition flights? to pass through irish airspace.

Believe me I'm no supporter of gaaw either and toiletduck your may be correct in saying it's kept the airport afloat,

That said I dont agree with the current shannon situation and anyone who would consider pushing the same agenda at knock would most certainly not get my vote.

IMO Ganley's underlying message is clear - the more tightly integrated the EU is politically, the harder it will be for the US to influence it. Thus Lisbon does not "advance US national interests".

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but there are too many dots don't add up with Ganley and his party,
Finally, it is once again worth noting that, like McEvaddy, all of Ganley's business dealings have been carried out through 'private equity' companies. Thus there is no way of knowing how much money he has, nor who actually owns the companies he leads.

*EDIT* Just found this from the Irish Indo

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/eu-president-demands-probe-into-source-of-libertas-funding-1480303.html

THE president of the European Parliament yesterday demanded a full investigation into anti-Lisbon treaty group Libertas over the source of its funding.

Hans-Gert Poettering said serious questions needed to be asked about where Libertas had got its money from and the links of its chief Declan Ganley to the US military.

"A total of €200,000 came from a single donor who was a key organiser for Libertas and has military procurement contracts with the US government. I ask Dick Roche, the Irish Europe minister, to make sure he carries out a full and thorough investigation so that we can have full transparency."

Under EU rules, the maximum donation allowed is just over €6,000, meaning that if Ganley's loan is classed as a donation, he could be liable to prosecution.

"There is now a direct link between Irish referendum, the US military and the Pentagon. I call on the authorities to probe the matter," said Greens' leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Even today, the day before the election this is what is on Libertas' policy page:

Libertas wrote:

The Libertas programme for a better Europe will be published on this site in the coming weeks.

http://www.libertas.eu/en/policies

They are not telling you what their policies are until after the election.

They couldn't make that any plainer, you have no comeback on them no matter what they do in your name, because you are giving them free reign.

How can anyone trust them?

How can you vote for them without knowing exactly what they intend to do?

skelliser

lol, im sorry but where does a possible donor giving 200,000euro lead to
"There is now a direct link between Irish referendum, the US military and the Pentagon. I call on the authorities to probe the matter," said Greens' leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit.

PopeBuckfastXVI

skelliser wrote: »

lol, im sorry but where does a possible donor giving 200,000euro lead to
"There is now a direct link between Irish referendum, the US military and the Pentagon. I call on the authorities to probe the matter," said Greens' leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit.

Hans-Gert Poettering wrote:

A total of €200,000 came from a single donor who was a key organiser for Libertas and has military procurement contracts with the US government.

It amazes me how those who in fairness just want to give FF a good kicking, are determined to blind themselves to Libertas' many many flaws, shady background and history of flip flopping and distorting the truth.

Why is your back so up about defending them, if they're just a means to an end?

Ganley has so little respect for the voters of the NW he hasn't even bothered publishing his policies, to me that's reason enough not to vote for him, let alone defend him.

skelliser

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Why is your back so up about defending them, if they're just a means to an end?

im not defending them!
iv said consistantly that im well aware of there background and the wild spook,cia, pentagon allegations, all it most be noted propagated by the yes campaign/ff/brussels

Why is your back so up about destroying them?

PopeBuckfastXVI

skelliser wrote: »

Why is your back so up about destroying them?

First and foremost I think they've brought Irish political campaigning to a new low, with their complete disrespect for the truth. They've cast aspersions and told lies beginning with their input to the Lisbon debate. To bring Irish politics to a new low takes some doing, but they've done it.

Their aims for the EU, as a politically weak and disjointed economic organisation, subservient to the US in world affairs conflicts with my own vision of Europe as a coherent champion of human rights and social justice around the world.

What policies they have adopted seem to be based on who they are talking to, or what they sense the current mood is, and quickly dropped if they sense any mood against them - see their ill fated 'dey took our jaaabs' fiasco over the blue cards (brought in by John "kick the immigrants" Howards PR guy).

They show a total lack of respect for the Irish electorate by sloganeering on areas that MEP's have little or no input on (taxes etc.), while using vaguely aspirational language that stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever. They have no solid policies, which ties in nicely with the point above. Their policy in Ireland seems to be 'gain power, forsaking all else'. I suspect they want to wield this power against the EU, rather than for the NW.

They are wedded to many right wing and downright racist parties across Europe, including France, Austria and Poland. I judge a man by the company he keeps.

The are opportunists, trying to use current political discontent to gain power, power which I don't believe the want to use to address the causes of the political discontent - otherwise they would be running for the Dáil and the local elections - not the EP.

They have been caught buying parties across Europe with so called 'loans'.

They are undemocratic in that Ganley (the money man) has appointed himself 'chairman' without a vote. They have no core policies across Europe except a common brand.

They are a privated limited company, with all that entails re legal obligations to provide shareholder value.

Lastly I think that sending a recognised Euroskeptic MEP, with an aim of hamstringing the EU would be an absolute disaster for NW, at a time when we need to make and keep friends in Europe.

Is that enough?

skelliser

A democracy functions by having a robust opposition questioning the party/parties in power. In the EU it should be no different. It is vital that opponents of EU policies, and treaties, are allowed to voice their concerns without be branded as "anti-Europe". I voted yes to lisbon and im shocked and annoyed with the complete lack of respect for the will of the majority.
thats why along with punishing ff im gonna vote ganley

galwayrush

I'll vote for most of them except FF and Shinners.

cornbb

skelliser wrote: »

A democracy functions by having a robust opposition questioning the party/parties in power. In the EU it should be no different. It is vital that opponents of EU policies, and treaties, are allowed to voice their concerns without be branded as "anti-Europe". I voted yes to lisbon and im shocked and annoyed with the complete lack of respect for the will of the majority.
thats why along with punishing ff im gonna vote ganley

Most if not all of the MEPs will be opponents of some aspect or other of European policy - they are part of the machine that debates and decides on these policies after all. The problem with Ganley is that he is not just an opponent of some policy aspects - all the signs point to him being an opponent of the EU itself.

Anyway, it appears that the majority have thought more carefully about the whole thing and are now no longer the majority http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0518/1224246810409.html - seeing as so many no voters have changed their minds, I'm sure the fact that they will be given the chance to vote again will be welcomed.

Lockstep

I've run out of thanks because of this thread but essentially, PopeBuckfastXVI summed up my thoughts perfectly.

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Their aims for the EU, as a politically weak and disjointed economic organisation, subservient to the US in world affairs conflicts with my own vision of Europe as a coherent champion of human rights and social justice around the world.

I strongly support O'Keeffe. Having someone with her guts and convictions (exposing corruption leading to beef tribunal, willing to go to jail to protect her sources and journalistic integrity) is needed in Europe and especially from Ireland.

Edit; still have some thanks left; my browser was acting strange.

cornbb

The EU was concieved as an entity to bring peace, unity and freedom to Europe, and to champion human rights and social justice as PopeBuckfast said, these things have much more importance and gravity than most of the issues that have been discussed during this campaign. Declan Ganley has not shown an iota of an intention to support these fundamental values, what with his talk of European Armies and restrictions to freedom of movement.

SalthillGuy

snubbleste wrote: »

Why is Ganley's name in italics and the rest is normal script?

Ah, me thinks the person is biased.
Come on Marian H.......