Test on wedensday

cian1500ww

I have my test on Wednesday and I've ironed out all the kinks apart from the observation. Anyone have any tips on it or does anyone know if you can fail on it alone ?

Kenny_D

I failed on observation turning left. Its probably one of the more common things to fail on. If you're not fully observant of things going around you then chances are you'll crash Best advice is to take a pretest

jaffa20

GStormcrow wrote: »

I failed on observation turning left. Its probably one of the more common things to fail on. If you're not fully observant of things going around you then chances are you'll crash Best advice is to take a pretest

I dunno about that. My instructor says to use the mirrors/look around when you're supposed to only. I use them when turning left, right, roundabouts, reversing etc. Using them all the time while taking your eyes of the road makes me lose control as i'm not watching the road. It's hard to get the right balance. I'll see what the tester thinks on the day

cian1500ww

Had another driving lesson today, instructor said it was very good so my confidence is increasing a little. I'll just have to pray that I don't come across some awkward obstacles on the day of the test.

DrivingInfo

Hi cian1500ww

Yes you can fail on observation!

Remember this!
Its not about the amount you look its about the quality of the look.

Always check before you change your position and remember it you can't see "well how do you know if it is clear"

Note: Sometimes you may need to slow down to give yourself more time to observe and once you can see that its is clear you drive on again.

I hope this helps

EM2008

hey

firstly best of luck, go in full of confidence and just keep telling yourself you got it.

I passed my test first time a year ago and i really didn't stress about the mirrors.. my trick (instructor told me) was as your driving through housing estates just give a little look up every entrance on to your road ie

if there is an entrance to a housing estate or little road off the one your driving give a little glance up it this covers the full head movement of looking in your side mirrors.

Also on roundabouts glance up to you left to check obviously but as you pass each exit glance up them too making sure no ones coming out on top of you.

I cut out on my hill start and I still passed they said I handled the cut out properly so just be confident in everything you do or at least try and pretnend to be.

Good luck

Posy

My instructor always told me if a car overtakes you and you don't notice it until they're alongside you, then you need to improve your observation on the straight.
You should never have to use the phrase 'it just came out of nowhere' because you should have seen 'it'.

macroman

Just remember every 10-15 seconds or 100 yards on the straight
Rearview, left mirror & blindspot when turning left
Rearview, right mirror & blindspot when turning right
Rearview when you're about to brake.

When you're pulling off:
Check all mirrors and blindspots.
Over-exaggerate observation somewhat - let the examiner know that you're observing.
I used have the handbrake down just before my right mirror/blindspot
Prepare the car (clutch down, select gear, get to biting point) before observing.

When driving in a build up area:
Look under vans for pedestrians
Keep vigilant for kids playing
SLOW DOWN for hazards, let the examiner see that you're reacting
Mirrors, Blindspot & Indicate when overtaking parked cars

On Roundabouts:
Look in rearview before braking
Look onto roundabout for traffic
Keep looking right for an opportunity to join roundabout
When exiting blindspot, mirror and indicate
Over-exaggerate observation somewhat

cian1500ww

Thanks guys, all this advice is certainly a good boost. I'll be out practicing tomorrow so I'll get a chance to put it into practice. Funny enough I stalled on a hill start too on my 3rd lesson but the instructor didn't mind it at all. Made a quick recovery though. Silly mistake on my behalf that caused it, was trying to do it in 3rd !!

Devia

Some great advice so far. Just remember before you change speed, position or direction you should check your mirrors. Theres no big secret to passing observation, just be aware of your surroundings at all times and take caution. Best of luck in the test!

cian1500ww

Still finding this observation thing tough. How does the tester know that i'm checking my mirrors ?? When I'm on a straight road I just simply look up or to the right, I don't really move my head unless I'm looking in my left mirror. I don't like moving my head either because I find I'm looking away from the road ahead for longer.
Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

DrivingInfo

DO NOT check mirrors every 10 - 15 seconds this is very dangerous.

If you are not looking where you are going you may not see something in front of you "DO NOT check mirrors every 10 - 15 seconds this is very dangerous".

Use your mirrors with this type of attitude;

every thing looks good ahead! So how are things behind, AND THEN LOOK AHEAD, do this as you drive and only when it is safe to do so.

Observation is the looking outside of your vehicle, which includes your OUTSIDE mirrors.

IT IS NOT ABOUT THE AMOUNT YOU LOOK IT IS ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE LOOK.

Regards

DrivingInfo

Still finding this observation thing tough. How does the tester know that i'm checking my mirrors ?? When I'm on a straight road I just simply look up or to the right, I don't really move my head unless I'm looking in my left mirror. I don't like moving my head either because I find I'm looking away from the road ahead for longer.
Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

cian1500ww

Have you taken any driving lessons?

cian1500ww

DrivingInfo wrote: »

cian1500ww

Have you taken any driving lessons?

4 so far, one more tomorrow, why ?

brian076

macroman wrote: »

Just remember every 10-15 seconds or 100 yards on the straight
Rearview, left mirror & blindspot when turning left
Rearview, right mirror & blindspot when turning right


When exiting blindspot, mirror and indicate
Over-exaggerate observation somewhat

Do not over-exaggerate your observations or you could be faulted for reaction to hazards if you're not looking ahead of you.

And do not check blindspots when on the move ie turning left or right. It's very dangerous to look behind you when the car is moving.

cian1500ww wrote: »

Still finding this observation thing tough. How does the tester know that i'm checking my mirrors ?? When I'm on a straight road I just simply look up or to the right, I don't really move my head unless I'm looking in my left mirror. I don't like moving my head either because I find I'm looking away from the road ahead for longer.
Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

You will rarely see a mark on a Driving Test report for "Mirrors on the Straight" as the tester cannot see if your checking your mirror unless they stare at you for the whole test, however they will know when you should be checking your right mirror, ie changing lane, and they will look for either a slight head or eye movement at the appropriate time.

You should generally be to the left when going straight at a crossroads, unless there is a vehicle parked near the start of the new road, in which case you should be positioned to the right so you don't have to move back out when overtaking the parked vehicle.

DrivingInfo

Still finding this observation thing tough. How does the tester know that i'm checking my mirrors ?? When I'm on a straight road I just simply look up or to the right, I don't really move my head unless I'm looking in my left mirror. I don't like moving my head either because I find I'm looking away from the road ahead for longer.

This is one of the things i would say your having a issue with because of what someone else has said, "like your instructor". You have the right idea and the tester will see you if you do it, "it is his/her job to see you" eye movement may be a little to small but don't take the mic a little movement will do.

Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

This depends on the situation:
Is there a car going right?
Is there a car going left?
Is the road in good condition?
etc, etc

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.
Left stay Left of your lane.
Right stay Right of your lane.

Regards

cian1500ww

Thanks for the help guys, just one small question, is it ok to come to a full stop while turning in the reverse around the corner manoeuvre or the turnaround ??

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

This is one of the things i would say your having a issue with because of what someone else has said, "like your instructor". You have the right idea and the tester will see you if you do it, "it is his/her job to see you" eye movement may be a little to small but don't take the mic a little movement will do.



This depends on the situation:
Is there a car going right?
Is there a car going left?
Is the road in good condition?
etc, etc

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.
Left stay Left of your lane.
Right stay Right of your lane.

Regards

In general you the driver should be in or around the center

That is incorrect.

You judge distances from the left. Your position on the straight should be a safe distance from the left. You do not hog the road by taking a mid-position.

TwoShedsJackson

cian1500ww wrote: »

Thanks for the help guys, just one small question, is it ok to come to a full stop while turning in the reverse around the corner manoeuvre or the turnaround ??

You shouldn't need to come to a complete stop during the reverse around the corner, just take it slowly through the entire thing.

Stop at each 'stage' of the turnabout i.e. when you are transitioning from moving forward to reversing on the first bit and from reversing to moving forward on the final part - the manoeuvre is more testing your ability to not hit the kerb and to transition smoothly from forwards to reverse without cutting out and whilst observing etc.

DrivingInfo

Hi J R

If you are going to quote it should be

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane

which puts the car to the left of the lane.

You judge distances from the left. Your position on the straight should be a safe distance from the left. You do not hog the road by taking a mid-position.

What if the lane is wide? if your pupil stays over to the left on a wide lane they will entice the following vehicle to overtake.

cian1500ww

Thanks for your advice guys, passed the test in carrick with one grade 1 fault and one grade 2.

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi J R

If you are going to quote it should be


which puts the car to the left of the lane.



What if the lane is wide? if your pupil stays over to the left on a wide lane they will entice the following vehicle to overtake.

:eek::eek:

From the Rules of the Road

Your road position

Make sure you drive your vehicle far enough to the left to allow traffic to safely pass or overtake on the right but not so far to the left that you are driving on a cycle lane or blocking or endangering cyclists or pedestrians.

cian1500ww

Just a quick question with regards to the full licence, on my provisional I was licenced under category B & W but I noticed on my certificate of compentency the tester just marked the B box only, I presume I will get the W category on my full licence as well as the B one ??

DrivingInfo

Hi J R

If i was you i would read posts before i reply because once again you have missed something " entice ". I know what it says in the RoTR and it says "Allow".

If you have ever given a lesson in an area where lanes width change, you would know the danger where learner drivers move to far to the left because they read in the RoTR that they should stay left to allow others to overtake.

The driver of a car is on the right hand side of the car, so when the driver is in or around the centre of their own lane it will put the car more to the left than the right.

If the driver is told to stay left, WELL that is what they do! And in the situation where the lane widens they move over to far to the left and entice traffic to overtake.

If you ever had a pupil in the situation where someone was overtaken at the same time someone came from a Hidden entrance you would understand.

Don't for get the old "It depends on the situation"

Regards

DrivingInfo

cian1500ww wrote: »

Just a quick question with regards to the full licence, on my provisional I was licenced under category B & W but I noticed on my certificate of compentency the tester just marked the B box only, I presume I will get the W category on my full licence as well as the B one ??

Yes you should get the B and W.

Well done on your driving test I hope we were of help.

Regards

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi J R

If i was you i would read posts before i reply because once again you have missed something " entice ". I know what it says in the RoTR and it says "Allow".

If you have ever given a lesson in an area where lanes width change, you would know the danger where learner drivers move to far to the left because they read in the RoTR that they should stay left to allow others to overtake.

The driver of a car is on the right hand side of the car, so when the driver is in or around the centre of their own lane it will put the car more to the left than the right.

If the driver is told to stay left, WELL that is what they do! And in the situation where the lane widens they move over to far to the left and entice traffic to overtake.

If you ever had a pupil in the situation where someone was overtaken at the same time someone came from a Hidden entrance you would understand.

Don't for get the old "It depends on the situation"

Regards

Never heard of that before.


1. That you use the position of the driver's seat as a reference point.
2. That you try and block traffic from overtaking.

What happens if a person driving a left-hand drive car reads your post ??? Or a driver of one of those wee Smart cars ???

The rules say you stay left, leaving a safe distance for cyclists, parked cars etc, etc etc, and that is exactly what you should do. And the reference points they use, the clearance from the left to the lefthand side of the vehicle. Not the distance from the drivers seat to the white line.

Give me a link to where it says you stop traffic from overtaking because there may be a hidden entrance ahead. But it says in several places that you DO NOT imped traffic. You do not police the road.

You KEEP LEFT

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote: »

Never heard of that before.
1. That you use the position of the driver's seat as a reference point.

Its a guide not a rule.

2. That you try and block traffic from overtaking.

I DID NOT SAY THIS. I said: In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.

What happens if a person driving a left-hand drive car reads your post ???

Well here you go "It depends on the situation" and this is a completely different situation all together, it is probably the only part i missed because i should have said "when driving a right hand drive car" and if your overtaking in a left hand drive car. ALL i can say is "BEST WISHES"

Or a driver of one of those wee Smart cars ???

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight.

The rules say you stay left, leaving a safe distance for cyclists, parked cars etc, etc etc, and that is exactly what you should do. And the reference points they use, the clearance from the left to the lefthand side of the vehicle.

QUESTION: Ill ask you a question! How will an inexperienced driver judge this?

Not the distance from the drivers seat to the white line.

I never said anything about white line???

Give me a link to where it says you stop traffic from overtaking

I never said anything about stopping traffic from overtaking???

because there may be a hidden entrance ahead.

when talking about overtaking you know yourself that you should only overtake when it is safe to do so. I am talking about enticing people to overtake when it is not safe

But it says in several places that you DO NOT imped traffic. You do not police the road.

Yes i agree! But am i correct to say you should not give misleading signals. NOW i know "indicators" But i have seen so many pupils move to the left, Because they where reading the RoTR and the instructor told them stay left, stay left and that is what they do.
Driver testers told me they are failing people because they stay to close to the left. I know this is not what you teach and it is not what is in the RoTR but it is how they take it up.

You KEEP LEFT

POINT MADE

Ans to question above: They will look in the left mirror to see where the curb is.
I SAY: In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good. "IN A RIGHT HAND DRIVE CAR" the driver will check mirrors but will look where they are going
Turning Left: stay Left of your lane.
Turning Right: stay Right of your lane.

Regards

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Quote:
The rules say you stay left, leaving a safe distance for cyclists, parked cars etc, etc etc, and that is exactly what you should do. And the reference points they use, the clearance from the left to the lefthand side of the vehicle.

QUESTION: Ill ask you a question! How will an inexperienced driver judge this?

Regards

If they do not, then I would very respectfully suggest they learn as soon as possible. Knowing where the left hand side of the car is, is kind of important.

Correct position on the straight, travel on what is know as a "safety line". This line is a safe distance FROM THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE ROAD


Then no worries whither a smart car or a hummer, left or right hand drive. Width of the road should bear no relation to your position. I repeat you travel FROM the left

Last post on the subject.

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote: »

If they do not, then I would very respectfully suggest they learn as soon as possible.

Is it not your job to teach them????

Knowing where the left hand side of the car is, is kind of important.

Its nice of you to point that out!

Correct position on the straight, travel on what is know as a "safety line". This line is a safe distance FROM THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE ROAD

If i was learning i would say, "what's a safe distance? and how do i know from here? "

Then no worries whither a smart car or a hummer, left or right hand drive. Width of the road should bear no relation to your position. I repeat you travel FROM the left

and i repeat point made!

Last post on the subject.

Now its last post on the subject, :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Regards

J_R

Hi drivinginfo

you asked a question so will answer,

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Originally Posted by J_R
If they do not, then I would very respectfully suggest they learn as soon as possible.

Is it not your job to teach them????

Yes and I do so immediately, usually on the first or second lesson. The correct position as per the ROTR. And the reasons why. Was actually dropping you a gentle hint..

DrivingInfo wrote: »

If i was learning i would say, "what's a safe distance? and how do i know from here? "

If you were my pupil you would not need to ask. Read above. But for you and others you may have misled.

On the straight you travel on your "safety line" This line is roughly 1 (one) meter from anything on the left. I never found it necessary before but will now add, this distance is measured from the left hand side of the car.

You travel as far to the left as safely possible to allow traffic to overtake and not

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi J R

You judge distances from the left. Your position on the straight should be a safe distance from the left. You do not hog the road by taking a mid-position.

What if the lane is wide? if your pupil stays over to the left on a wide lane they will entice the following vehicle to overtake.

Above is a direct copy and paste. To me I read it that you actually encourage your pupils to block or at least hinder traffic from overtaking. Which directly contravene the ROTR. And is very annoying to following traffic.

And your reason

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi J R

If i was you i would read posts before i reply because once again you have missed something " entice ". I know what it says in the RoTR and it says "Allow".

If you have ever given a lesson in an area where lanes width change, you would know the danger where learner drivers move to far to the left because they read in the RoTR that they should stay left to allow others to overtake.

The driver of a car is on the right hand side of the car, so when the driver is in or around the centre of their own lane it will put the car more to the left than the right.

If the driver is told to stay left, WELL that is what they do! And in the situation where the lane widens they move over to far to the left and entice traffic to overtake.

If you ever had a pupil in the situation where someone was overtaken at the same time someone came from a Hidden entrance you would understand.

Don't for get the old "It depends on the situation"

Regards

Regards

DrivingInfo

John

You and I know the RoTR, we also understand that people need ways of understanding the RoTR in a simple manner.

I have had pupils come from Dublin to Naas.
The problem;
In Dublin a lot of the roads are of standard width, BUT in Naas this is not the case and Carlow, Kilkenny and so many more. I am not disagreeing with you on what the RoTR says i am trying to get you to see that if i tell people to position in the same way you tell them, They Will FAIL their test.

The OP asked this:
Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??
The problem in the question is!
Not all crossroads are the same so how do i give good advice which will help the OP to see that their is a difference in position when on the straight, turning left and turning right.

That is why I brake it into three parts:
In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.
Turning Left: stay Left of your lane.
Turning Right: stay Right of your lane.

If need be i could have stated what it says in the rules of the road but i think the OP would have known what it says in the RoTR and also the OP had taken 4 lessons.

The OP wanted a tip and a little understanding.

If you want help by just stating what it say in the RoTR and all other theory books well then go ahead.

I think you were out of order with your statement:

That is incorrect.

because as you know "It depends on the situation"

Regards

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

John


I think you were out of order with your statement:

Quote:
That is incorrect.

because as you know "It depends on the situation"

Regards

Perhaps I could have been little long winded :-

DrivingInfo wrote: »

The problem with the above is: when a OP asks a question like the one here they would like advice which will make sense and will help.
If i said the above to a pupil they would sometimes do it correctly and sometimes not, which means they did NOT learn how to observe correctly in that situation.
Best Regards

The correct answer would have been
Ideal position
Turning left: 2 to 3 feet from left
Straight: Safety line, 3 feet from left.
Right: Just left of white line.

Your answer was more or less correct, however in further postings you stated that when the road is wide you stay in the center of the road is totally WRONG.



Just up from the test center in Sligo

and normal position taken by most cars.


Which is incorrect. Proper position is in the left lane

I enquired from a person who should know and received above answer. I do not wish to name him on here so will PM a mod with his name and position.

You travel from the left, leaving space for all traffict to overtake

DrivingInfo

Hi John

Your answer was more or less correct, however in further postings you stated that when the road is wide you stay in the center of the road is totally WRONG.

John i did not say "center of the road" i said "center of the lane"

NOT LIKE THIS:

LIKE THIS: centre of your LANE not road

and normal position taken by most cars.


Which is incorrect. Proper position is in the left lane

I enquired from a person who should know and received above answer. I do not wish to name him on here so will PM a mod with his name and position.

You travel from the left, leaving space for all traffict to overtake.

YES i agree with what you were told by ????????, but that is only because of the situation, as you know if "turning left only" is on the most left lane of the road well then it is a different situation.

That is why I say:
In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.
So i am talking about a area/position of a driving lane which you should use in normal driving based on the road conditions.

I would like to add that you have pointed out something which all learners should know. The picture just up the road from the test centre "the 2nd picture" is about a situation which is local to an area and as i have always advised on the site make sure you get advice on local situations which may seem strange to an inexperienced driver.

I have a video on the site which is on position and the text for the video is:
/*
Getting it Right
Your Position On The Road:
In this Tutorial you will see how to Position your Car on the Road. Remember to have your Instructor advise you on local situations.
*/

The reason for this advice about the instructor is simple, the local junctions and areas that only locals understand.

John
I think that this has turned into a very good post and highlights the importance of understanding information and how driving instructors can forget that other people may not understand what the driving instructor is talking about.

Regards
Brian

J_R

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi John

John i did not say "center of the road" i said "center of the lane"


Regards
Brian

Perhaps that is your problem. I looked at that video and I do not see any lanes.

I see a road with two way traffic.

If there were lane markings then you should use the left-most lane possible. (If going straight) and position your CAR in the center of the lane.

No lane markings, then you travel a safe distance from the left. Using the left hand side of your vehicle as a guide.

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote: »

Perhaps that is your problem. I looked at that video and I do not see any lanes.

I see a road with two way traffic.

If there were lane markings then you should use the left-most lane possible. (If going straight) and position your CAR in the center of the lane.

No lane markings, then you travel a safe distance from the left. Using the left hand side of your vehicle as a guide.

OK John whatever....

jaffa20

Breathe in breathe out

and relax

and repeat.

Sunjammer

J_R wrote: »

No lane markings, then you travel a safe distance from the left. Using the left hand side of your vehicle as a guide.

Since you're nit picking, Take for example Ringaskiddy village in Co Cork a big wide road and a busy place for learner drivers practicing / getting instruction, if one was to take your advice above by keeping left they would entice others to overtake! (As an instructor you should be encouraging your pupils to drive at or near the speed limit or to keep pace with traffic therefore they would not be holding anyone up and anyone enticed to overtake them at the limit would be breaking the law :D) Getting back to Ringaskiddy keeping left you will encounter parked lorries, cars, skips, and many other obsticals in your path forcing you to pull back out constantly therefore Brians advice to stay in the centre of your lane is spot on and much much safer and is in fact what I see garda cars constantly doing

J_R

Sunjammer wrote: »

Since you're nit picking, Take for example Ringaskiddy village in Co Cork a big wide road and a busy place for learner drivers practicing / getting instruction, if one was to take your advice above by keeping left they would entice others to overtake! (As an instructor you should be encouraging your pupils to drive at or near the speed limit or to keep pace with traffic therefore they would not be holding anyone up and anyone enticed to overtake them at the limit would be breaking the law :D) Getting back to Ringaskiddy keeping left you will encounter parked lorries, cars, skips, and many other obsticals in your path forcing you to pull back out constantly therefore Brians advice to stay in the centre of your lane is spot on and much much safer and is in fact what I see garda cars constantly doing

Are you for real ??

No way, finished , , ,

Too idiotic.

Sunjammer

J_R wrote: »

Are you for real ??

No way, finished , , ,

Too idiotic.

What kind of a reply is that? :rolleyes::eek: reading it I think you need to book a few lessons from Brian :p;)

You see like you I was nit picking, and you obviously are not familiar with the area I used in my example therefore you are unable to understand, anyone on here familiar with the area will fully understand what I am saying!!!!! So what I was getting at is that Brian explained himself very well but you were nit picking lol !!

J_R

Sunjammer wrote: »

What kind of a reply is that? :rolleyes::eek: reading it I think you need to book a few lessons from Brian :p;)

It is the kind of reply that your post deserved

First it is a Penalty Point offence (1 Point and €60 fine) to

Failure to drive on the left hand side of the road

Second: from S.I. No. 182/1997:

ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

Your statement that because you are driving at the speed limit no vehicles should be overtaking is nonsense.

Do you not have emergencies in Cork. ?? Perhaps someone rushing to hospital with wife in labour, or perhaps child bleeding to death in back seat. You can not tell so you do not impede traffic. And of course the emergency vehicles.

Any compentent instructor will advise how to deal with parked vehicles.

Do hope you are not also an instructor

Alanstrainor

J_R, i find your attitude to be getting quite condescending, you got yourself into this mess.
No ones talking about driving on the wrong side of the road, or the centre of the road for that matter. All of this debate has been in relation to lane position.
This all started off with this one line made by Driving Info.

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.

This was given as general advice to help Learner Drivers understand, it's noted as "generally speaking", because we can't possibly be there in person to instruct, so it's a general piece of advice, which is simple to understand and applicable to most situations.

Sunjammer

J_R wrote: »

It is the kind of reply that your post deserved

First it is a Penalty Point offence (1 Point and €60 fine) to

Second: from S.I. No. 182/1997:

ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997


Your statement that because you are driving at the speed limit no vehicles should be overtaking is nonsense.

Do you not have emergencies in Cork. ?? Perhaps someone rushing to hospital with wife in labour, or perhaps child bleeding to death in back seat. You can not tell so you do not impede traffic. And of course the emergency vehicles.

Any compentent instructor will advise how to deal with parked vehicles.

Do hope you are not also an instructor

I think old chap you should definitely have somebody explain exactly what the rules of the road are actually stating because you definitely have a dodgy understanding of them before you class yourself an instructor :eek: Nobody has said anything about driving on the right hand side of the road here at all! But since you are the one that likes to nit pick how about this scenario if you are driving on a ONE way two lane street (in either a LHD car a RHD car, a bus, boat, train, plane, unicycle or a space ship for example before you nit pick) and you intend to turn right ahead what side of the road would you have your pupils drive on?? "Checkmate"

And contrary to what you may believe emergency service vehicles have to abide by the rules of the road like everyone else how you may ask can I make this statement, simple! My late father was 32 years as a high ranking officer in Cork City Fire service and my brother currently has around 25 years experience there, It is at the discretion of and on the head of the officer in charge of the emergency vehicle so for example a fire engine breaks a red light and kills someone coming in the opposite direction the emergency vehicle is in the wrong :P

As I said you obviously don't know Ringaskiddy You see I failed to give every detail of it for example it is a one sided village that being all the houses buildings are located on one side the road through it is a cul de sac, the width of the road would easily facilitate 4 lanes 5 or 6 in parts so a "U" turn in a long ridged truck would be a doddle and it is marked with just two lanes and as I said the Garda cars drive with the driver in the centre of their lane so are you saying the local constabulary who police this section of roadway are in the wrong also...

DrivingInfo

And contrary to what you may believe emergency service vehicles have to abide by the rules of the road like everyone else how you may ask can I make this statement, simple! My late father was 32 years as a high ranking officer in Cork City Fire service and my brother currently has around 25 years experience there, It is at the discretion of and on the head of the officer in charge of the emergency vehicle so for example a fire engine breaks a red light and kills someone coming in the opposite direction the emergency vehicle is in the wrong

Before anyone says your wrong:
I have a friend who is the office in the army fire service and my father was a driver in the fire service for just 30 years and the above is 100% correct.

Regards
Brian

J_R

Hi,

The original question was

cian1500ww wrote: »

Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

drivinginfo replied

DrivingInfo wrote: »

This depends on the situation:
Is there a car going right?
Is there a car going left?
Is the road in good condition?
etc, etc

In general you the driver should be in or around the center of your lane going straight if all is good.
Left stay Left of your lane.
Right stay Right of your lane.

Regards

drivinginfo was the first to mention LANES. I read the OP/s question as an ordinary road and to me the simple correct answer would have been to stay left.

I understand a lane to be a marked strip of road wide enough for a single line of cars, trucks, etc. And of course the correct position would be to drive in the center of that lane.

I have been posting about the correct position on a road.

Sunjammer as it happens I do know a little about one-way streets as I believe I was responsible for getting this addition into the new Rules of the Road

Turning right from a one-way street.
Drive as close as you safely can to the right-hand side of the one-way street. Look out for areas where two lanes may be allowed for turning right.

At least exchanged few emails with the RSA when they asked for input before publishing the final version

I pointed out pre-print book said (still does)

When turning right from a one-way street, drive as close as you can to the righthand side.

took no account of lane markings

They addded the addition to the "junctions" section

Sunjammer

J_R wrote: »

Sunjammer as it happens I do know a little about one-way streets as I believe I was responsible for getting this addition into the new Rules of the Road

Just how old are you? Next thing you'll tell us that you remember the good old days of having to have a guy walk in front of you at 4mph with a red flag


You are delusional if you believe that you are the one that thought up the rule of the road that on a 2 lane one way street turning right you keep right... Ironically this rule blows some of your previous nit picking theory's out of the water :pac::pac::pac:

J_R

Sunjammer wrote: »

Just how old are you? Next thing you'll tell us that you remember the good old days of having to have a guy walk in front of you at 4mph with a red flag


You are delusional if you believe that you are the one that thought up the rule of the road that on a 2 lane one way street turning right you keep right... Ironically this rule blows some of your previous nit picking theory's out of the water :pac::pac::pac:

Read the rules and my post again.

J_R

Hi,

expand a little on above.

The RSA published a draft version of the new Rules of the Road. 2005 or thereabouts. They asked for input.

I read the rules and submitted about 4 comments. One was regarding the one way street.

When turning right from a one-way street, drive as close as you can to the righthand side.

I pointed out this did not cover a road which had two lanes, both going right. This could and did cause confusion/conflict. The rules regarding lanes is that you get into your appropriate lane a soon as possible. So approaching a right hand turn if you were in the left lane to follow the rules as stated, it would be necessary to change lanes, and then back again after negotiating the corner.

Hence the addition

Drive as close as you safely can to the right-hand side of the one-way street. Look out for areas where two lanes may be allowed for turning right.

I said I believe I was responsible.

In your post above you say

on a 2 lane one way street turning right you keep right.

No, You missed the addition (mine ??). If the left lane is the appropriate lane for you then you stay in the left lane.

You accuse me of nit-picking. Incorrect position on the road can be dangerous, cause obstruction and will earn a grade 2 fault in the test. Four of these and you fail.

Totally different rules apply to one and two way streets, so do not understand the :pac::pac::pac:

Sunjammer

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

expand a little on above.

The RSA published a draft version of the new Rules of the Road. 2005 or thereabouts. They asked for input.

I read the rules and submitted about 4 comments. One was regarding the one way street.



I pointed out this did not cover a road which had two lanes, both going right. This could and did cause confusion/conflict. The rules regarding lanes is that you get into your appropriate lane a soon as possible. So approaching a right hand turn if you were in the left lane to follow the rules as stated, it would be necessary to change lanes, and then back again after negotiating the corner.

Hence the addition

I said I believe I was responsible.

In your post above you say

No, You missed the addition (mine ??). If the left lane is the appropriate lane for you then you stay in the left lane.

You accuse me of nit-picking. Incorrect position on the road can be dangerous, cause obstruction and will earn a grade 2 fault in the test. Four of these and you fail.

Totally different rules apply to one and two way streets, so do not understand the :pac::pac::pac:

You're still just nit picking here! Firstly Brian answered a question from the OP starting of with the words "In general" go back and read the entire thread and you will see how we are seeing that you have done little but nit pick!

You are obviously not reading the posts properly for example I never once mentioned that the two lanes on the one way street I used as an example where both turning right you just made that assumption so therefore the rule you are quoting is not correct because you are simply assuming the scenario when you should have asked for more details to read the situation before quoting an incorrect rule!

If the two lanes where terminating at a "T" junction one turning left the other right I'm afraid I would have to recommend that you follow the road markings and not drive in the wrong lane and cause traffic chaos by trying to swap lanes when there was no need to in the first place, which is in fact one of main causes of obstructing the aforementioned emergency vehicles progress in most cities ( another is illegally parked vehicles causing an obstruction) Another fact driving well to the left on most narrow city streets will not allow the emergency services to pass anyway hence the reason why you should be encouraging your pupils to drive at of near the limit or to keep pace with other traffic whichever is more suitable to a particular situation (In general lol) :p

So you see the RoTR do not cover every little thing in every possible scenario you must be able to fill in the blanks safely and if one likes to nit pick one will find a "what if" in just about every situation you encounter on the road almost everyday hence why it is said you are learning to drive for life

DriveSkill

This thread reminds me so much of a thread I was involved in a few weeks ago with people in violent agreement with each other and no one willing to back down, every single word and sentence is being over analysed in my opinion. I believe if people actually met and discussed this in person there would be little or no arguement.

The thread started with a simple question about going straight ahead at a crossroads and descended into which lane you should be in for turning right on a one-way street :eek: I'm sure the OP has long long interest.

The fact is there is no single answer for road position that you can give that applies rigidly in all cases.

My 2-cents summary :



Standard 2 way road, single carriage-way, no parked cars or obstructions :

• Keep left, take position relative to left hand edge irrespective of the width of the road

Standard 2-way road, single carriage-way, with obstructions or hazards :

• Adjust position to give sufficient clearance to the obstructions or hazards. This may mean driving more towards the center line and if there is an almost continuous line of parked cars etc then you maintain your position and do not move in and out as pass each car.

Lane Driving :

• Maintain a central position in the lane

One Way Street :

• If turning left or going straight generally use left lane and if turning right at the end generally use right lane.

IN ALL SITUATIONS THE ROAD MARKINGS TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER ANY GENERAL RULE.

This quote I think sort of sums it up :

In our normal driving, in the absence of other hazards, we take up the normal driving position, which is about a metre from the kerb. But when we encounter other hazards, we often have to change position to deal with them safely.
The golden rule with positioning is that we should always try to place the vehicle into the safest possible position to deal with the hazards that we encounter.

This was taken from : http://www.approved-driving-instructor-training.co.uk/position.php which I think gives a reasonable overview.

Note: I have no connection whatsoever with that site - just found it on google!

J_R

Hi.

completely agree with driveskills posting.

Sunjammer. You are making me dizzy. First I am on some funny road in Cork, some kind of twilight zone, then I am turning right at end of a one way, when I answer that its a T junction and I am turning left instead.

I say to allow traffic to overtake and I am suddenly responsible for a fire engine breaking the lights and killing someone


Can not keep up and will not try.

J_R

Alanstrainor wrote: »

J_R, i find your attitude to be getting quite condescending, you got yourself into this mess.
No ones talking about driving on the wrong side of the road, or the centre of the road for that matter. All of this debate has been in relation to lane position.
This all started off with this one line made by Driving Info.

This was given as general advice to help Learner Drivers understand, it's noted as "generally speaking", because we can't possibly be there in person to instruct, so it's a general piece of advice, which is simple to understand and applicable to most situations.

I replied to the answer given by drivinginfo to this question.

cian1500ww wrote: »

Oh and what position should I be in if I'm going straight at a crossroads ie. to the left or to the right ??

To me the simple answer would have been stay left, roughly 1 meter from the left if all is good

From reading posts on here I noticed Drivinginfo uses the word lane when he obviously means his half of the road, (A lane is only wide enough for one vehicle) Went to double check his use of the word on his videos but a lot are off line. But still found a few which clearly show a road with two way traffic, no lane markings and he refers to his side of the road as a lane. Therefore I read his reply as In general you the driver should be in or around the center of the road going straight if all is good. (Misread his statement as meaning his car, since said sorry, as using the driver as reference moves position to the left a foot or two).

If the road or lane as drivinginfo would say is relatively narrow then no problem, with the driver at mid-point this position is more or less correct but if it is wide then the position is incorrect. Whereas my answer would have been correct irrespective the width of the road. As I may have posted a few times you position your car from the left as per the rules and regs..

And yes I got myself into this mess, but never again. .