Should Batt O'Keefe fire the invigilator?

Dr Galen

PCPhoto wrote: »

I dont want to be rude but if you have read the various news reports they state that the invigilator is male.

he has been suspended (probably with pay - which is the problem that I have).... how are you punishing a mistake by giving someone time off their duties WITH PAY....punishment needs to be given in order to understand the ramifications of making errors.

because standard HR practice in any organisation when someone is suspected of any wrongdoing is to suspend the person with pay, until an investigation into the matter is carried out and the facts obtained.

in this case, eventhough we know that the wrong paper was handed out, that practice would still apply.

for God's sake it's not like he bludgeoned a student to death with a copy of Macbeth. A mistake was made, and sure there has to be some consequences but baying for blood like this is going a bit far

PCPhoto

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

because standard HR practice in any organisation when someone is suspected of any wrongdoing is to suspend the person with pay, until an investigation into the matter is carried out and the facts obtained.

in this case, eventhough we know that the wrong paper was handed out, that practice would still apply.

for God's sake it's not like he bludgeoned a student to death with a copy of Macbeth. A mistake was made, and sure there has to be some consequences but baying for blood like this is going a bit far

AAAhhhh .... Macbeth !!! such a good murdering tool - my personal preference being an injection of air enducing a stroke...but nevermind !!

he made a mistake and should be punished - its quite clear that he made an error, it was discovered ....so punish and move on ...no need to investigate (no offence intended but thats typical Civil Service methods...lets investigate how we caught him and what actually happened)

I do feel like the guy needs to be punished - like I said - suspended without pay couple of weeks (max), it will punish him and we can all move on....no need to drag it out !!!

For anyone that believes that it was a genuine error and the guy shouldnt be punished in any way....think about this:

As a result of this guys "mistake" ..... approx 60,000 Leaving cert students have been inconvenienced (study timetables wrecked, planned weekends, work schedules - yes some people have to work at weekends through their Leaving Cert year)..... this guys mistake has effected thousands of students ....... and people say he shouldnt be punished. (we NEED accountability in all walks of life - especially those who's decisions impact on the rest of us)


oh...just for the record: I'm not a Leaving Cert Student.

lighthouse

Well then PCPhoto if you are not a Leaving Cert Student, don't jump on the bandwagon.

Donagh_mc

Everyone deserves a second chance and I for one would never try get someone fired.

Liam Byrne

If they can decide to keep the idiots who spent billions on eVoting machines and other rubbish

If they can keep a Minister for Finance who agreed to invest in a bank without reading a report

If they can decide to pay pensions and bonuses to "financial regulators" who didn't - well - regulate

If they can agree to pay the legal and compensation bills for an unknown number of abused kids, without firing whoever decided that

If they can sell an airline without ensuring the contract cast-irons the flights from an island, without firing the contract-writer

Then surely an invigilator who screwed up on a relatively small scale is irrelevant ?

IIMII

Did I pick it up incorrectly or did they say on Drivetime that he didn't actually report it? Something about anoth school read about it on a blog, and reported it themselves?

You can only imagine what the morning must have been like for the poor fella. Talk about whistling past the graveyard.

uriah

Timmyctc wrote: »

Too right man you think it would've been the very first thing you'd do after such a **** up but that's screwed me over for history

If it was that easy you weren't ready for history paper anyway. God forbid that anything really serious would happen .

Some years ago a family member was in the middle of his leaving cert when his father died. Removal and funeral was arranged around his timetable. He carried his father's coffin one day, and sat a leaving cert paper the next morning. He was just 18.
He got excellent results and went on to get first class honours degree.

Don't let the small things get to you. You can't change what happened, but you can change your own attitude/reaction to it. Who knows? The alternative paper might suit you far better. Decide to be positive.

Pygmalion

Sully wrote: »

You can still break encryption. Technically.

eCommerce sites are broken into. There is no "fully secure" website really.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Of course encryption can be broken, but there are measures that are put in place in proper systems that make it VERY difficult to do so

I know this conversation was finished long ago, but I felt very compelled to reply to this. Pretty much all modern encryption (SSL for example) involves using the product of large prime numbers. This encryption can then only be broken if you know one or both of these primes.
There are currently no methods to find the prime factors of a large number in a feasible amount of time. I could encrypt something on my battered old laptop in seconds with the right software and rest assured that it would take years, if not decades or centuries, to be broken.
The original idea was that the exams would just have to be stored overnight and then the keys to decrypt given out at 9:30 in the morning, obviously it might be infeasible to get this working, but not because encryption is easily defeated by any Leaving Cert. student. But if each school has computers it could be set up in a couple of hours if the invigilators got instructions, though I imagine it'd be infeasible to assume that they'd all do it right and that you could rely on the computers in publicly funded schools.

RSA laboratories ran a factorisation challenge for 16 years (1991 - 2007) and many of the numbers in the challenge were never factored, despite large cash prizes (up to $200,000 for the largest), some of the "easier" numbers were broken by clusters of several dozen computers working 24 hours a day for several months.

Now that my rant about encryption is out of the way I'll say that i don't necessarily think the invigilator should be fired, unless it can be shown that he did this on purpose.
Although it can be said that due to the huge cost associated with his actions perhaps it might be better to send a message that mistakes can't be tolerated.

lighthouse

Shut the **** up everybody who isn't actually a Leaving Cert Student.

Pygmalion

lighthouse wrote: »

Shut the **** up everybody who isn't actually a Leaving Cert Student.

Why, this is the politics section of Boards, not the Leaving Cert. one, why is it only students that are allowed to state their opinion?

oscarBravo

Anyone's allowed to state their opinion, as long as they do so in a civil manner.

lighthouse

Pygmalion,
First I hope you are getting on allright after the **** up yesterday. The reason I stated what I said is that whenever things like this happen people who have nothing to do with the issue jump on the bandwagon while the people who are directly affected just want to get on with their studies and forget things for the moment. Analysis is fine afterwards but the L.C. students themselves can do without these distractions. By the way I am not a L.C. student. I am a student teacher in Mary I in Limerick.

nesf

lighthouse wrote: »

Shut the **** up everybody who isn't actually a Leaving Cert Student.

Or what, you'll throw the rattle and the teddy of out the pram? Seriously, welcome to the Politics forum where everyone has an opinion and you'll probably utterly disagree with at least half of them.

P_1

The main issue at hand is the fact that the invigilator did not follow the standard procedure and report the leak straight after it happened.

As a consequence, the SEC was not aware of the issue until the afternoon rendering sending out any alternative papers a logistical nightmare.

This strikes me as gross incompetance on the part of the invigilator and should be grounds for dismissal.

Also while I'm not 100% sure of this, I think the invigilator may fall afoul of the laws regarding state examinations.

seamus

lighthouse wrote: »

Shut the **** up everybody who isn't actually a Leaving Cert Student.

You'll find lighthouse that the vast majority of people on this board have gone through the LC process and are vastly more qualified to comment on this case than people who are in the middle of it because we have the benefit of time and experience to put the situation into reality instead of inflating it into some form of life-changing catastrophe.

squonk

lighthouse wrote: »

Shut the **** up everybody who isn't actually a Leaving Cert Student.

God love you, you're so special! You've a few things to learn once you get out into the big bad world... you think the LC is hard...

Boston

JonathanAnon wrote: »

(Cant see why the invigilators weren't forced to make provision to find printing facilities for tomorrow, then upload the paper to a password protected website (which could be issued at 8.30am tomorrow), and then printed out. Sure there might be a delay in some places, but it's just a photocopy after all.)

You sounds fairly non-technical. It would take weeks if not months to set up a truly secure website along the lines of the ones used for internet banking. Also the website would have to handle thousands simultaneous connections, it would be far from simple.

seamus

Boston wrote: »

You sounds fairly non-technical. It would take weeks if not months to set up a truly secure website along the lines of the ones used for internet banking. Also the website would have to handle thousands simultaneous connections, it would be far from simple.

Not to mention that since photocopiers have come into existence, teachers have proven consistenly that they're incapable of photocopying the entire page, rotated correctly and without marks all over the sheet. I don't recall ever once getting a clean photocopy in school

Donagh_mc

It's going to cost €1,000,000 to rescheudle to exam to Saturday, I kid you not!

1- Wages for the supervisors
2- Distribution costs
3- Bus rental to ferry kids to the schools
4- Some staff of the actuall schools need to be there and will get time and a half

Oh my!

Front

Dumb wrote: »

"what, was he locked away in isolation or something

"Minister, can you step outside for a minute, there's a bit of a problem"

sorted "

No. A meeting. Regarding teacher payment. This is irrelevant though. He was unable to leave. This is relevant.

I'm sorry but that is rubblish. Has no Minister ever excused himself from a meeting to deal with an emergency. Come on....

squonk

Donagh_mc wrote: »

It's going to cost €1,000,000 to rescheudle to exam to Saturday, I kid you not!

1- Wages for the supervisors
2- Distribution costs
3- Bus rental to ferry kids to the schools
4- Some staff of the actuall schools need to be there and will get time and a half

Oh my!

Honest to god if a mistake I made cost my (private sector) company a sum like that, I'd be so gone before you could finish 'Hey where did Squonk go?' That invigilator really needs to be taught a lesson. It's our money he's wasted. He should be banned from invigilating for life. Mind you, that's a bit pathetic but maybe they could give him a fotnight in the Joy or something under the laws governing examinations?

Front

squonk wrote: »

God love you, you're so special! You've a few things to learn once you get out into the big bad world... you think the LC is hard...

Aren't you special?! patronising a 17 yr old on an Internet messageboard during the most difficult and stressful time of his/her life so far. Grow up!!

From memory having to sit an English exam on a Saturday would have had serious reprecussions for prep for next weeks exams as you effectively lose a full days "cram time" that you would have planned for.

I have sympathy with the LCers on this one.

Front

seamus wrote: »

You'll find lighthouse that the vast majority of people on this board have gone through the LC process and are vastly more qualified to comment on this case than people who are in the middle of it because we have the benefit of time and experience to put the situation into reality instead of inflating it into some form of life-changing catastrophe.

Why does everyone insist on patronising the LC students? Take yourself back to your LC, having this thrown upon you only for a load of farts to tell you to cop on to yourself and that life will throw bigger challenges at them than this.

Truth is, this is a serious disruption for these guys who are in the middle of the biggest couple of weeks of their lives to date. THE LC seems like nothing to us now, but it was a stressful time and this will affect a lot of peoples preps for next week. Don't dismiss it because you think you know better.

carbsy

I agree front.It's been 17 years since I did my leaving but I can remember the stress it put me under.But then again, looking back now I'm wondering what all the worry was about! I f0cked up my leaving (didn't fail anything, just low points) and didn't get what I wanted in college so went down the work/experience route and am going well now.

Anyhow LCers, relax and do your best.

uriah

Front wrote: »

Why does everyone insist on patronising the LC students? Take yourself back to your LC, having this thrown upon you only for a load of farts to tell you to cop on to yourself and that life will throw bigger challenges at them than this.

Truth is, this is a serious disruption for these guys who are in the middle of the biggest couple of weeks of their lives to date. THE LC seems like nothing to us now, but it was a stressful time and this will affect a lot of peoples preps for next week. Don't dismiss it because you think you know better.

But what is the point in going on..and on...and on about it?
It is doing more harm than good and will change absolutely nothing. Energy which should be put into study is going instead into complaining. Focus is being lost and we should not be encouraging it.

squonk

Front wrote: »

Aren't you special?! patronising a 17 yr old on an Internet messageboard during the most difficult and stressful time of his/her life so far. Grow up!!

From memory having to sit an English exam on a Saturday would have had serious reprecussions for prep for next weeks exams as you effectively lose a full days "cram time" that you would have planned for.

I have sympathy with the LCers on this one.

I stand by my remarks Front. If an LCer wants to come on and discuss what the effecdts of the cock up are for them, grand, but an LCer coming on throwing a tantrum deserves to have their 'plight' put in context. Talking about cramming at this stage is BS since (and I now this, having done my LC in 92) History is quite an intensive and detailed paper at higher level that if you are cramming at this stage then God help you anyway. The best thing any LCer cold be doing at this stage is a bit of light revision and taking it easy IMHO to recharge the batteries. Exam catastrophes do happen and I've had my share of them both at school and college and I think the same can be said for many of the OPs here if you asked them. I have sympathy for the LC students this year but it doesn't mean that I have to bend over backwards to put up with tantrum from some of them when I know from experience that there are far worse things that can happen in life.

lighthouse

Have to agree with Front. Squonk is talking bull**** in my opinion.

lighthouse

seamus wrote: »

You'll find lighthouse that the vast majority of people on this board have gone through the LC process and are vastly more qualified to comment on this case than people who are in the middle of it because we have the benefit of time and experience to put the situation into reality instead of inflating it into some form of life-changing catastrophe.

Seamus,
Sorry I have to disagree with you here. I'm sure when you were doing your Leaving Cert if something like this happened to you it would have thrown you entirely. The fact that the rest of us can talk about the L. C. as a memory does not take from the seriousness of the situation for the present students. It is not a matter of who is qualified or not to talk about it.

PCPhoto

Squonk is right .... theres no point in a LCer coming onto a message board claiming they are getting abused by "older" people saying sh1t happens stop complaining.

Fact of the matter is : if you had prepared for your LC you would not be panicking - get off your soapbox and get back to your study.

I have done my LC - and gone through college - I think all the LC students should be damn glad of this "mistake" as this means their exams will be marked favourably.... I have no doubt that there will be some LC bright spark who will probably take a civil action against the state for the "stress" they have suffered and they couldnt perform their leaving cert properly.

squonk

lighthouse wrote: »

Have to agree with Front. Squonk is talking bull**** in my opinion.[/QUOT

It's easy to have an opinion Lighthouse, you don't seem to be backing yours up here though. My point is that while this is a big hiccup and I agree it will throw people off, if you have put the work in at this stage then you can take it in your stride and the people correcting the exams will also factor in the circumstances surrounding the exam into the marking scheme as well.

The exams go on for a number of weeks for everyone and during that time everyone is going to encounter some sort of crisis. In my case for the LC Poetry section I had conentrated on one poet, then realised when I had the paper in front of my that I had blanked where that poet was concerned, and had to pick it up and do a question on one of the other poets instead. It didn't cause me to suffer much in the overall result. The point I'm making is that you've had two yeas to do the work and an extra day either way at this point isn't going to make a bit of difference. You already know enough to answer the questions. Depending on how you work you should have the equivalent of the main points of your subject in a condensed format at this stage that you can run through quickly in a cue card type way. You have Saturday afternoon and Sunday so I don't see how losing 4 or 5 hours in there is gong to make a blind bit of difference to be honest.

From my point of view I'm finding it damn annoying that this sort of whinging is being entertained. I think the vast majority on this board have been through the LC process. We've also gone through different types of exams. Leaving exams aside, there are many other things in life that are as stressful and can have far greater impact on your future than the Leaving Cert. I'm not discounting that it's important, of course it is, but have a little bit of perspective. Of course if you're 17 it's hard enough to listen to older people talking about their LCs of years gone by. Mind you, if you don't want to listen to any of our input, then perhaps you should be on another forum?