Should Batt O'Keefe fire the invigilator?

Dumb

Front wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is rubblish. Has no Minister ever excused himself from a meeting to deal with an emergency. Come on....

Some may have proceeded to do so. In the circumstances Mr. O'Keeffe was unable to leave and regretted it thoroughly. He made the decision in the best interests of Students, teachers and the ordinary man on the street. Were he to abandon his appointment there would be trouble when he returned to Kildare Street. Like I said he done what he did in the best interests of the country - the Irish people, Irish community and foreign nationals who reside in the country.

squonk

Dumb wrote: »

Some may have proceeded to do so. In the circumstances Mr. O'Keeffe was unable to leave and regretted it thoroughly. He made the decision in the best interests of Students, teachers and the ordinary man on the street. Were he to abandon his appointment there would be trouble when he returned to Kildare Street. Like I said he done what he did in the best interests of the country - the Irish people, Irish community and foreign nationals who reside in the country.

I'm sorry but I've only picked up so far that he was at Dublin Castle yesterday. What could have been _THAT_ important that he couldn't have left for even a few minutes? I mean, if he was in crisis session with the UN secrity council and the US who were intent on nuking the country at 5PM unless Peig was permananly taken off the curriculum and destroyed you could understand. The Leaving Cert is one of the the main events in the Irish educational system each year,and, furthermore, a highly unusual event had occured which had ramifications for the exam and the students sitting it.

Maybe I should be thanking Minister O'Keefe for not being a crispy critter right now?

Dumb

squonk wrote: »

I'm sorry but I've only picked up so far that he was at Dublin Castle yesterday. What could have been _THAT_ important that he couldn't have left for even a few minutes? I mean, if he was in crisis session with the UN secrity council and the US who were intent on nuking the country at 5PM unless Peig was permananly taken off the curriculum and destroyed you could understand. The Leaving Cert is one of the the main events in the Irish educational system each year,and, furthermore, a highly unusual event had occured which had ramifications for the exam and the students sitting it.

Maybe I should be thanking Minister O'Keefe for not being a crispy critter right now?

"The Leaving Cert is one of the the main events in the Irish educational system each year,and, furthermore, a highly unusual event had occured which had ramifications for the exam and the students sitting it. "

Yes. This is true. "One of the the main events " There are several more important events and exams.

ardmacha

The Leaving Cert is one of the the main events in the Irish educational system each year,and, furthermore, a highly unusual event had occured which had ramifications for the exam and the students sitting it.

Piffle. So, a paper was mixed up. This is a matter for the administration, not something that is of interest to a Minister. It is a storm in a teacup. Say the wrong paper is given out in a TCD exam, do you think that the Provost even knows about this?

nuac

LC students should study a course rather than selective tips. Should not be depending on an extra day's cramming

lighthouse

squonk wrote: »

lighthouse wrote: »

Have to agree with Front. Squonk is talking bull**** in my opinion.[/QUOT

It's easy to have an opinion Lighthouse, you don't seem to be backing yours up here though. My point is that while this is a big hiccup and I agree it will throw people off, if you have put the work in at this stage then you can take it in your stride and the people correcting the exams will also factor in the circumstances surrounding the exam into the marking scheme as well.

The exams go on for a number of weeks for everyone and during that time everyone is going to encounter some sort of crisis. In my case for the LC Poetry section I had conentrated on one poet, then realised when I had the paper in front of my that I had blanked where that poet was concerned, and had to pick it up and do a question on one of the other poets instead. It didn't cause me to suffer much in the overall result. The point I'm making is that you've had two yeas to do the work and an extra day either way at this point isn't going to make a bit of difference. You already know enough to answer the questions. Depending on how you work you should have the equivalent of the main points of your subject in a condensed format at this stage that you can run through quickly in a cue card type way. You have Saturday afternoon and Sunday so I don't see how losing 4 or 5 hours in there is gong to make a blind bit of difference to be honest.

From my point of view I'm finding it damn annoying that this sort of whinging is being entertained. I think the vast majority on this board have been through the LC process. We've also gone through different types of exams. Leaving exams aside, there are many other things in life that are as stressful and can have far greater impact on your future than the Leaving Cert. I'm not discounting that it's important, of course it is, but have a little bit of perspective. Of course if you're 17 it's hard enough to listen to older people talking about their LCs of years gone by. Mind you, if you don't want to listen to any of our input, then perhaps you should be on another forum?

I am giving my opinion from years of experience in the school of life. However in the above post you have mellowed your opinions which is to be welcomed.

dvpower

Macros42 wrote: »

No he shouldn't. If you fired everyone who made a mistake nobody would have a job. Everyone makes a serious mistake at one time or another - $hit happens.

This was a million euro mistake - not the kind that everyone makes. He certainly shouldn't be hired as an invigilator again.

Dumb

dvpower wrote: »

This was a million euro mistake - not the kind that everyone makes. He certainly shouldn't be hired as an invigilator again.

The man made a simple mistake. Mr. O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner in relation to helping Students and the people of this country. The man will not be fired and will continue to serve as an examination supervisor as long as the Department of Education and Science is under the care of Mr. Batt O'Keeffe.

Dumb

ardmacha wrote: »

Piffle. So, a paper was mixed up. This is a matter for the administration, not something that is of interest to a Minister. It is a storm in a teacup. Say the wrong paper is given out in a TCD exam, do you think that the Provost even knows about this?

An exam at TCD is nothing in comparison to the Leaving Certificate. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe acknowledges his actions were slightly outlandish but he did act in the best possible manner. Being at a meeting in relation to teacher payments in Dublin Castle he was unable to take action straight away. Immediately afterwards a reception for the Lord Mayor of Dublin was held in Dublin City Hall. Mr. O'Keeffe attended this engagement and then went about sorting out the problems which we all know about.

Timmyctc

Dumb wrote: »

The man made a simple mistake. Mr. O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner in relation to helping Students and the people of this country. The man will not be fired and will continue to serve as an examination supervisor as long as the Department of Education and Science is under the care of Mr. Batt O'Keeffe.

The man may have made a simple enough mistake but he cost the government so much money and caused massive disruption throughout the country. If a surgeon makes a minor mistake say like sneezing during an operation and kills someone or even causes damage he's taken up for malpractice and himself and/or the hospital can be sued for a gross amount of money. A very unfair punishment, for a very minor mistake No?

Dumb

Timmyctc wrote: »

The man may have made a simple enough mistake but he cost the government so much money and caused massive disruption throughout the country. If a surgeon makes a minor mistake say like sneezing during an operation and kills someone or even causes damage he's taken up for malpractice and himself and/or the hospital can be sued for a gross amount of money. A very unfair punishment, for a very minor mistake No?

An operation - a matter of life and death. The Leaving Certificate - no. We must not pressurise our Young People into thinking the Leaving Certificate is like surgery. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe acted in the best manner posible under the circumstances. No more could be done. The Minister for Defence, Mr. William O'Dee was not present in Dublin on the day of the minor crisis. O'Dee was in Trim for a Melmount Function. But the point is that the Leaving Certificate is not a matter of life and death. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe acted in the best way posible for Student and Ireland alike.

Timmyctc

Dumb wrote: »

An operation - a matter of life and death. The Leaving Certificate - no. We must not pressurise our Young People into thinking the Leaving Certificate is like surgery. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe acted in the best manner posible under the circumstances. No more could be done. The Minister for Defence, Mr. William O'Dee was not present in Dublin on the day of the minor crisis. O'Dee was in Trim for a Melmount Function. But the point is that the Leaving Certificate is not a matter of life and death. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe acted in the best way posible for Student and Ireland alike.

No the point im highlighting here is that even a "simple mistake" can have huge repremandations and as a result punishments to match.

HeatherF

eeeemmm.....
I duno... i dont think he should to be honest!!
Everyone makes mistakes and unfortunatly for him his was a BIG one!
and as for not reporting it?...
yup i agree he should have.. but we dont know exactly what happened only what we are hearing from the media... maybe he was told that no1 looked at the paper??... I feel sorry for him...
Yup its a loada s.h.i.t.e. that we gotta do the exam 2mr but thers notin we can do bout it now..:(
Good luck eva1...
I know ill need it...lol

Dumb

Timmyctc wrote: »

No the point im highlighting here is that even a "simple mistake" can have huge repremandations and as a result punishments to match.

Surgery is nothing in comparison to the Leaving Certificate. The Minister acted in the proper manner and stands by his decision.

HeatherF

hahahahahahahahaha Surgery is nothing in comprsnt 2 da Leavn??..... Hmmm....... yea.. only surgery can actually save lives.... Life goes on after the leaving, wether passed or failed... No??...:pac:

Dumb

HeatherF wrote: »

hahahahahahahahaha Surgery is nothing in comprsnt 2 da Leavn??..... Hmmm....... yea.. only surgery can actually save lives.... Life goes on after the leaving, wether passed or failed... No??...:pac:

Yes. It does go on. Rewind back to when one was abused at the hands of the priests. Woken at 3am for a hand shandy and given a fruit bollocks. Rulers and Ping-Pong balls and other such instruments were used. That was torture. You just don't know what the world has in store for you. What size was the brother's penis. Imagine asking a child that question. On hindsight I'd say 8.5 inches. It damaged the internal areas of the child and left them with a red raw external area.

Now don't tell me that there is no life after a failed Leaving Certificate.

Shelflife

Getting back on topic, should the invigilator be sacked?

Imo yes without a shadow of a doubt.

a simple mistake ? yes but hes being paid not to make that mistake, hes been trained not to make the mistake , the papers are even colour coded orange and green so as not to make the mistake.

whats one of the most important parts of your job? make sure they get the correct papers on the correct day.

id sack him for that alone, when he went on to deny there was a problem and thus make the problem worse it turned into a no brainer, on your bike son.

an earlier poster suggested that the ppars, computerised voting were worse mistakes and nobody got sacked well that was wrong too, its time that people who make cock ups as big as those should get the door asap, we are the fools for not clamouring for their dismissal.

its time we let our politicians and civil servants know that we wont stand for this unprofessionalism any more.

Dumb

Shelflife wrote: »

Getting back on topic, should the invigilator be sacked?

Imo yes without a shadow of a doubt.

a simple mistake ? yes but hes being paid not to make that mistake, hes been trained not to make the mistake , the papers are even colour coded orange and green so as not to make the mistake.

whats one of the most important parts of your job? make sure they get the correct papers on the correct day.

id sack him for that alone, when he went on to deny there was a problem and thus make the problem worse it turned into a no brainer, on your bike son.

an earlier poster suggested that the ppars, computerised voting were worse mistakes and nobody got sacked well that was wrong too, its time that people who make cock ups as big as those should get the door asap, we are the fools for not clamouring for their dismissal.

its time we let our politicians and civil servants know that we wont stand for this unprofessionalism any more.

Leave this poor man alone. Mistakes are going to be made and made by no man better than the man who makes the ones that people are most critical of. Minister O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner given that he attended a meeting in Dublin Castle and a reception nearby at Dublin City Hall. It was a mistake, I acknowledge that. It is not a significant enough one to make him worthy of a sacking.

ardmacha

Of course the person responsible for this should never be allowed near an exam again. The original mistake was regrettable, but mistakes do happen. The decision to cover up the mistake caused the disruption and this was deliberate. This person had a specific job to do and did not do it, Batt is not the person responsible for sending out exam papers and he need not have broken his routine engagements. He must review the arrangements for subsequent years though.

Shelflife

Dumb wrote: »

Leave this poor man alone. Mistakes are going to be made and made by no man better than the man who makes the ones that people are most critical of. Minister O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner given that he attended a meeting in Dublin Castle and a reception nearby at Dublin City Hall. It was a mistake, I acknowledge that. It is not a significant enough one to make him worthy of a sacking.

how can you say that a million euro mistake which affects 1000s of people , because he couldnt be arsed/is unable to do the job properly is not a significant error.

it was gross misconduct on two counts, 1 giving out the wrong paper 2 covering up the fact that he did.

Dumb

Shelflife wrote: »

how can you say that a million euro mistake which affects 1000s of people , because he couldnt be arsed/is unable to do the job properly is not a significant error.

it was gross misconduct on two counts, 1 giving out the wrong paper 2 covering up the fact that he did.

If I could intervene.

Let me make it clear. What I am saying is that worse things will happen to these students. God knows some day they'll die. Minister O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner in the given circumstances. He was in meeting at the time and had to later attend a civic reception in Dublin. Dublin is a distance away from Athlone. While the Minister didn't have to be on location in the State Examinations Commission Building in Athlone the Minister felt it was his duty to make the journey. His colleague Minister O'Dea was a distance away in Trim at the time of the incident.

QueenOfLeon

From a leaving certs point of view, no, i dont think he should be sacked. I feel sorry for him. His first mistake was simple human error...nothing can be said against that. However, his more serious mistake was not immediately informing the SEC. This had worse implications than the 1st mistake, as it lead to re-scheduling instead of just changing the paper.

And yes, we are aware that the leaving cert is not the end of the world, however this thought is in the back of our minds until after these few weeks. At the moment, they ARE the be all and end all for most of us. Sitting down and completing the exam is THE most important thing that we have going on right now. Its easy to say they're not the end of the world, but not when you're actually doing them.

Shelflife

Dumb wrote: »

If I could intervene.

Let me make it clear. What I am saying is that worse things will happen to these students. God knows some day they'll die. Minister O'Keeffe acted in the best possible manner in the given circumstances. He was in meeting at the time and had to later attend a civic reception in Dublin. Dublin is a distance away from Athlone. While the Minister didn't have to be on location in the State Examinations Commission Building in Athlone the Minister felt it was his duty to make the journey. His colleague Minister O'Dea was a distance away in Trim at the time of the incident.

WTF are you talking about?? what has any of the above got to do with the actions of the invigilator?

Dumb

You are all arguing about the Leaving Certificate being more important than death and that the man behind the mistake should be sacked. I am giving the background and how Minister O'Keeffe dealt with the situation. He dealt with it in the best manner possible given the pressure he was under.

bigeasyeah

Yes he should be fired.The main reason being he didnt report it,a students parents did.

Dumb

Anne-Marie!! wrote: »

From a leaving certs point of view, no, i dont think he should be sacked. I feel sorry for him. His first mistake was simple human error...nothing can be said against that. However, his more serious mistake was not immediately informing the SEC. This had worse implications than the 1st mistake, as it lead to re-scheduling instead of just changing the paper.

And yes, we are aware that the leaving cert is not the end of the world, however this thought is in the back of our minds until after these few weeks. At the moment, they ARE the be all and end all for most of us. Sitting down and completing the exam is THE most important thing that we have going on right now. Its easy to say they're not the end of the world, but not when you're actually doing them.

You can say so for yourself but you are unaware about Das Leben Der Anderen.

Shelflife

Dumb wrote: »

You are all arguing about the Leaving Certificate being more important than death and that the man behind the mistake should be sacked. I am giving the background and how Minister O'Keeffe dealt with the situation. He dealt with it in the best manner possible given the pressure he was under.

i never mentioned anything about the LC or anything about the "pressure" o keefe was under, the question is : should the invigilator be sacked yes or no , where o keefe or others were or what they were doing is irrelevant.

the invigilator should be sacked because he wasnt up to the job and then tried to cover up the errors.

Dumb

Shelflife wrote: »

i never mentioned anything about the LC or anything about the "pressure" o keefe was under, the question is : should the invigilator be sacked yes or no , where o keefe or others were or what they were doing is irrelevant.

the invigilator should be sacked because he wasnt up to the job and then tried to cover up the errors.

Minister O'Keeffe has come to the ultimatum that this man will not be sacked according to various audio excerpts surfacing on the wireless over the last few days.

Shelflife

Dumb wrote: »

You can say so for yourself but you are unaware about Das Leben Der Anderen.

Dumb wrote: »

Minister O'Keeffe has come to the ultimatum that this man will not be sacked according to various audio excerpts surfacing on the wireless over the last few days.

are you on the same page as the rest of us?

Dumb

Shelflife wrote: »

are you on the same page as the rest of us?

Yes. You cannot be aware of the lives of others.