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Just dunno what to do....

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  • 04-06-2009 3:48pm
    #1
    tilly1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭


    Hope im posting this in the write section.. Anyways my situation is i bought a 2 bed house 18 months ago and like most other properties, it has gone down in value an awful lot!! My husband and i bought the house with the intention of living in it for a year then going to Australia selling it to make a profit or rent it out.. Im an australian Citizen and he has just got his VISA approved..

    However, with the way things are, we cant sell it.. I just want done with the house.. I would happily post my keys back to the bank and deal with the loss in money... However the hubby isnt so keen.. He wants to wait till house prices turn around again... Which in my eyes isn't going to happen for quite a long time... I want to go home to australia like we always planned.. Should we sell at a loss if we can sell it at all?? cant rent it either because our mortgage is 1200 a month and we would only get €800 in rent.. Couldnt afford to send back €400 (AUD$700) a month to make up the difference... Maybe just default on the mortgage and let the bank re-posess it.. I know that sounds a bit much but im desperate... I just wanna go home.. I know everyone is suffering at the monent... I just cant see a way ou!!


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    #2
    RentDayBlues
    Registered Users Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭RentDayBlues


    You cant just hand back the keys and you cant just default on the mortgage, you will still be liable for it!

    You have to either sell if you can and pay the difference if the bank agrees OR rent it out and pay the difference each month - you cant just walk away


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    #3
    tilly1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭tilly1


    I know im liable.. I just can t see a way out.. Desperate times call for desperate measures and im desperate.... I know that IF we sell the house, and its a very BIG IF, it will be at a definate loss.. and how do we pay the difference to the bank if we have no money?? All i want is to go home... Im awful homesick and have no family other than myhusband here... i cant wait around for things to get better coz thats gonna be ages...


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    #4
    RentDayBlues
    Registered Users Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭RentDayBlues


    TBH you really should have thought about all of this BEFORE you bought. If you sell you will be liable and the bank will want their money


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    #5
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    No offence, but welcome to the real world.

    As you have said, there is no easy way out.

    I wonder would you be as homesick if the property was worth a lot more than when you bought?

    Your choices are simple - wait until the market turns (if/when), sell and make a loss, still owing the bank, borrow money (in Aus) to pay off any outstanding debt.

    Yourself and your husband should go visit a financial advisor and visit the bank, and see if any agreement can be reached.


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    #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Unfortunately what RentDayBlues says is accurate. Irish personal bankruptcy laws and credit laws are still modelled on laws fashioned in Victorian Times (literally). I'm not going to go down the road of asking what on earth you were doing buying a house if you intended to emigrate in a year's time.

    You have two options- rent out the property, or sell the property.

    You are unlikely to cover the mortgage by renting out the property and there are also stamp duty issues. In addition- any tenant is legally obliged to withold 20% of gross rent and forward it to the Revenue Commissioners in lieu of taxes due by the landlord (the landlord is obliged to furnish an annual Irish Tax return). Given your circumstances- and despite how messy this is- it may very well be that your best option is to appoint a reputable agent to manage the property for you, do your tax return- and deal with any tenant issues as they arise. This may very well eat another chunk of potential rental income though (assuming you are able to rent out the property in the first instance).

    If you bought 18 months ago- depending on location and dwelling type- its a reasonable assumption that were you to genuinely try to sell the property- it may be worth in the region of 20% less than you paid for it. If you are emigrating- I can't see why a mortgage lender would allow you commute the difference into a term loan- its inherently risky for them.

    Vis-a-vis property prices bouncing- it may happen- it could be in 2-3 years time- or it could be in 20 years time. Your guess is as good as mine- and anyone who claims to be able to predict this is either a liar or else delusional.

    Personally- I'd rent it out- and accept that its going to cost you- but look at it as an asset that you'll own outright in 20-30 years time. I can't see any merit in moving to Australia with a 40k personal loan as a millstone before you ever get started.....?


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    #7
    latenia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭latenia


    As far as I can tell the main problem is that you want to go home to your family and friends but you can't afford to do this and keep the house. You don't mention having any financial difficulties if you both stayed here and worked to pay off what you borrowed. Nobody can afford to do everything they want to in life.
    The answer is quite simple. Stay here for a few more years and pay back your debts or let them become more managable from abroad. If you're that homesick buy skype or a Prisoner Cell Block H boxset or something. This country has produced enough of its own whining immature deadbeats over the last 10 years without having to take the hit from the imported variety too.


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    #8
    minderbender
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭minderbender


    my opinion is that if you have no intention of returning to ireland then just hand back the keys. As long as the bank do not have information on your whereabouts in Australia there isnt a hell of alot they can do. They can get a judgement against you in an Irish court that is only enforceable in Ireland, against Irish assets. You wont be the only one. I wouldnt allow a misguided belief that you owe the banks here anything to change the way you want to live your life and your future. F**k them, we the Irish taxpayer are bailing the buggers out anyway. There are guys here who owe hundreds of millions and they will get away scott free. So... stop worrying about it and enjoy the antipodean sunshine!


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    #9
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    minderbender wrote: »
    my opinion is that if you have no intention of returning to ireland then just hand back the keys.

    And I'm sure someone like yourself doesn't mind paying extra in taxes to fund such activity?? That's what it comes down to - other people then have to pay for the debt of those who just walk away.


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    #10
    IanCurtis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭IanCurtis


    Have you a car you could sell to cover the difference in the short term? A €10,000 sale would pay the difference for 25 months.

    Maybe even take out a long-term loan and use that to cover the difference in the mortgage for the short-term?

    Could you enter an agreement with a family member for them to pay their rent for a room and the €400 and get a share in the house?

    There must be another way. I don't think you should sell it myself and, having just come back from Australia, things aren't much better than here so forget than "Antipodean sunshine" rubbish for a start. Plus you could find trouble ahead when you go to buy in Oz from doing a runner.


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    #11
    SueWho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭SueWho


    minderbender wrote: »
    my opinion is that if you have no intention of returning to ireland then just hand back the keys. As long as the bank do not have information on your whereabouts in Australia there isnt a hell of alot they can do. They can get a judgement against you in an Irish court that is only enforceable in Ireland, against Irish assets. You wont be the only one. I wouldnt allow a misguided belief that you owe the banks here anything to change the way you want to live your life and your future. F**k them, we the Irish taxpayer are bailing the buggers out anyway. There are guys here who owe hundreds of millions and they will get away scott free. So... stop worrying about it and enjoy the antipodean sunshine!

    This is outrageously irresponsible!!! "Handing back the keys" is the same as defaulting- you'll end up being blacklisted for (correct me if I'm wrong) 7 years. You and your husband will not be able to borrow from any Irish financial institution until the blacklist period has passed.

    Maybe as an Australian citizen you would "get away with it" by running off back home and never returning to Ireland to face the debts you left behind but what about your Irish husband? Surely he'd like to be able to visit Ireland which would be difficult if he's wanted for such a huge debt.

    To say that because the taxpayer is bailing out the banks then we can just say, "f*uck them, I'm not paying cos they took my money" is crazy. Don't you feel that if we're bailing out the banks then it's in everyone's best interests that LESS people default on loans????


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    #12
    whizzbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭whizzbang


    minderbender wrote: »
    my opinion is that if you have no intention of returning to ireland then just hand back the keys. As long as the bank do not have information on your whereabouts in Australia there isnt a hell of alot they can do. They can get a judgement against you in an Irish court that is only enforceable in Ireland, against Irish assets. You wont be the only one. I wouldnt allow a misguided belief that you owe the banks here anything to change the way you want to live your life and your future. F**k them, we the Irish taxpayer are bailing the buggers out anyway. There are guys here who owe hundreds of millions and they will get away scott free. So... stop worrying about it and enjoy the antipodean sunshine!

    If they walk away the bank will do one of two things:
    1) Sell debt to debt recovery agency who will see they are an Aussie citizen and then start looking for them there
    2) Go look for them in Austrlia themselves

    Companies like the following will be more than willing to help out:
    http://www.ozpeopletrace.com.au/
    http://www.peoplesearchaustralia.com.au/p/


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    #13
    minderbender
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭minderbender


    For starters its a ridiculous idea that you could not visit Ireland because yo would be " wanted" for a debt.. it is not a criminal matter so you could come and go as you please. As to the other sentiments about irresponsibility... wake up and smell the coffee, you are either blind or stupid.


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    #14
    Hanumanmaman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Hanumanmaman


    After reading peoples replies to you I just had to respond to you. I completely agree with minderbender on this one. If you and your husband have absolutely no intention of ever coming back to Ireland then just leave the country. I can't believe that the poor little banks will be in any more trouble than they already are if people like you and your OH do a runner. And it's not like you're being immoral/irresponsible like some here are insinuating. There's no point in staying here paying off a crazy big loan for the next 20/30 years and being deeply unhappy - you need to go get on with your lives.
    Good luck to you


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    #15
    whizzbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭whizzbang


    SueWho wrote: »
    This is outrageously irresponsible!!! "Handing back the keys" is the same as defaulting- you'll end up being blacklisted for (correct me if I'm wrong) 7 years. You and your husband will not be able to borrow from any Irish financial institution until the blacklist period has passed.

    Bankruptcy in Ireland is 12 years or pay half the debt back.
    They liquidate all your assets like savings, pensions, shares, investments etc and then take a large part of your wage each month.


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    #16
    whizzbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭whizzbang


    minderbender wrote: »
    For starters its a ridiculous idea that you could not visit Ireland because yo would be " wanted" for a debt.. it is not a criminal matter so you could come and go as you please. As to the other sentiments about irresponsibility... wake up and smell the coffee, you are either blind or stupid.

    Court will order you to pay debt, you won't as you will be in Oz, you will be in breach of court order, bingo, criminal matter!

    "Welcome back to Ireland, here's your cuffs" at least potentially! and if its the government and tax payers paying for your debt then I'm sure effort will be put into tracking down people who owe the money, at least at border crossings.


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    #17
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    whizzbang wrote: »
    Bankruptcy in Ireland is 12 years or pay half the debt back.
    They liquidate all your assets like savings, pensions, shares, investments etc and then take a large part of your wage each month.

    Which will then effect the person's OH who is Irish. His pension, etc, will all be taken in to consideration.

    There are also, as has been stated, many debt collection companies now who buy bad debt and chase around the world to reclaim it.

    It's certainly not nearly as easy to just hand back the keys and run.

    And I'm glad to see that some people don't mind you just running, since they will then have to pay a portion of your debt in their taxes.


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    #18
    whizzbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭whizzbang


    Hanumanmaman wrote: »
    After reading peoples replies to you I just had to respond to you. I completely agree with minderbender on this one. If you and your husband have absolutely no intention of ever coming back to Ireland then just leave the country. I can't believe that the poor little banks will be in any more trouble than they already are if people like you and your OH do a runner. And it's not like you're being immoral/irresponsible like some here are insinuating. There's no point in staying here paying off a crazy big loan for the next 20/30 years and being deeply unhappy - you need to go get on with your lives.
    Good luck to you

    Its not the the banks money, its OUR money! Tax payer will be paying, we have guaranteed them all. So just think of running away as knocking down a few classrooms in a school, or maybe burning out a few government vehicles. Its the Irish people you are lumping with the debt!


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    #19
    Hanumanmaman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Hanumanmaman


    Oh please. As tax payers we are paying bloody everything else anyway. I can't believe the scaremongering on here. OP. take your chances and go. All this talk of debts following you around the world - rediculous. If you go to Australia I seriously doubt very much that the bank will track you down - they can't afford to do that anyway har, har.
    Leaving a crazy country because you cannot pay off a huge debt and because you want to go home is hardly the same as knocking down schools or burning gov premises. Give me a break
    OP, don't listen to all these - your happiness and sanity is far more important


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    #20
    Lab_Mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Lab_Mouse


    the banks wont chase you but the debt collectors will.Honestly what was you thinking,only buying it for a year plus it was written on the wall the housing market was gonna go tits up


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    #21
    prendy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭prendy


    Paulw wrote: »
    Which will then effect the person's OH who is Irish. His pension, etc, will all be taken in to consideration.

    There are also, as has been stated, many debt collection companies now who buy bad debt and chase around the world to reclaim it.

    It's certainly not nearly as easy to just hand back the keys and run.

    And I'm glad to see that some people don't mind you just running, since they will then have to pay a portion of your debt in their taxes.

    i hope OP and hubby bought themselves and didnt get a guarantor like say his Irish parents?

    Hanumanmaman wrote: »
    Oh please. As tax payers we are paying bloody everything else anyway. I can't believe the scaremongering on here. OP. take your chances and go. All this talk of debts following you around the world - rediculous. If you go to Australia I seriously doubt very much that the bank will track you down - they can't afford to do that anyway har, har.
    Leaving a crazy country because you cannot pay off a huge debt and because you want to go home is hardly the same as knocking down schools or burning gov premises. Give me a break
    OP, don't listen to all these - your happiness and sanity is far more important

    i dont agree, this thing of leave it and let someone else deal with it. Fact is every bad debt that the banks have is passed directly to us as PAYE workers. We are bad enough without some twat lumping us with more simply coz she's homesick.

    OP grow up, you bought a year ago with the intention of screwing someone else and making a nice profit, it backfired and you got screwed yourself thats your problem.:mad:


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    #22
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Exactly, the bank will sell the debt to a debt collection agency, and they will do the chasing.


    But, to the OP, your best bet is to sit and talk to a financial advisor or your bank about your situation. You may be able to reach a mutual agreement.


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    #23
    ronbyrne2005
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭ronbyrne2005


    Lab_Mouse wrote: »
    the banks wont chase you but the debt collectors will.Honestly what was you thinking,only buying it for a year plus it was written on the wall the housing market was gonna go tits up

    Exactly, why were they buying a property if there was slighest chance of returning to Australia within 5-10 years! Sounds like they hoped to buy make a profit over 18months and use profit when selling to start new life in Australia. Pay your debts.


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    #24
    noleafclover78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭noleafclover78


    I am fuming reading this thread!!

    Firstly, I can't believe the attitude of the OP. You bought a house, knowing you intended to leave the country in 12 months, just so as you could make a profit?!? You DESERVE the debt you have acquired! Your purchase was a very foolish gamble and now you have to deal with the loss. Would you have been leaving the profit behind you when you left for Australia if prices went up? No! Then you must deal with the loss.

    And as for the people who have replied suggesting doing a runner?!? WTF? You DO realise that it's US who will have to pay for this in the long run! Don't encourage such irresponsible behaviour. The OP has an obligation to repay what she owes. Anything else is theft. And WE'RE the ones she'd be stealing from!!

    :mad:


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    #25
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    tilly1 wrote: »
    Hope im posting this in the write section.. Anyways my situation is i bought a 2 bed house 18 months ago and like most other properties, it has gone down in value an awful lot!! My husband and i bought the house with the intention of living in it for a year

    I'm just curious - house prices were going down already 18 months ago; why did you buy at that time if you only expected to stay on for a year?

    P.


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    #26
    geem
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭geem


    whizzbang wrote: »
    Court will order you to pay debt, you won't as you will be in Oz, you will be in breach of court order, bingo, criminal matter!

    "Welcome back to Ireland, here's your cuffs" at least potentially! and if its the government and tax payers paying for your debt then I'm sure effort will be put into tracking down people who owe the money, at least at border crossings.

    Tracking down escaping debtors at border crossings?
    Yes and if they make as much effort to catch this couple as they made catching the bankers who destroyed the economy then this homesick Australian should be really, really worried.

    I forget now. How long did it take for the gardai to pay Anglo a visit? Weeks? Months? Anyone in 'cuffs' yet? Anyone? Anyone?


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    #27
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Thats it- thread closed.
    Rule no. 1 in here- if you disagree with what someone posts- refute the post without attacking the poster.

    Regards,

    SMcCarrick


This discussion has been closed.
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