Footballers: Loyalty vs Money

MrStuffins

I read a story today about Aston Villa supporters posting pictures of Gareth Barry wearing traitional arab head-dress with the word "Judas" and another picture of him screaming "Show Me The Money!!" in a speech bubble. This move wasn't about immediate ambition as City won't play in Europe next season. Was it long term ambition? Money?

So it got me thinking. Loyalty v Money. What is your view? Should a footballer stay with a club dispite being offered more money elsewhere due to a sense of loyalty? In the Gareth Barry situation, he is getting 200% of the wage at City than he did at Villa.

This is Gareth Barry's job, and i know myself and most of you would go do the exact same job for another company tomorrow if they doubled your current money. A footballer's career is short an, IMO, they should make the money while it's there.

I once saw a documentary where former Man Utd midfielder Neil Webb needed to go to his local pub and beg people for jobs as he had no qualifications after his football career was over. He was making ends meet by selling programmes outside the Madeski Stadium and eventually a guy gave him a job driving a van.

But football is complicated, what do you guys think?

Highsider

MrStuffins wrote: »

I read a story today about Aston Villa supporters posting pictures of Gareth Barry wearing traitional arab head-dress with the word "Judas" and another picture of him screaming "Show Me The Money!!" in a speech bubble. This move wasn't about immediate ambition as City won't play in Europe next season. Was it long term ambition? Money?

So it got me thinking. Loyalty v Money. What is your view? Should a footballer stay with a club dispite being offered more money elsewhere due to a sense of loyalty? In the Gareth Barry situation, he is getting 200% of the wage at City than he did at Villa.

This is Gareth Barry's job, and i know myself and most of you would go do the exact same job for another company tomorrow if they doubled your current money. A footballer's career is short an, IMO, they should make the money while it's there.

I once saw a documentary where former Man Utd midfielder Neil Webb needed to go to his local pub and beg people for jobs as he had no qualifications after his football career was over. He was making ends meet by selling programmes outside the Madeski Stadium and eventually a guy gave him a job driving a van.

But football is complicated, what do you guys think?

Barry was offered 80k a week at Villa no? Don't think he would have ever been in Webb's position.

SlickRic

i just hate liars.

dreamers75

Money, only fans are loyal and they pay for that privilege.

invincibleirish

Neil Webb in his pomp would have been lucky to have been paid a weekly wage of more then a few thousand sterling a week, he missed the boom.

GB was on approx 40-50k a week already at Villa, was offered a new contract at 80k a week and accepted Man Citys offer of 100k a week. He is already a multi millionaire and has been for a decade or thereabouts.

The comparison you make is flawed, there is little loyalty in professional football but there hasn't been for years. Gazza & Platt didn't leave their UK teams because they were disloyal they left because the big moolah to be earned was in Italy.

Headshot

Lucas Neill being the worse around

also Gareth Barry has gone right down in my estimation

Burial

Its a job. Of course money is going to win vs. loyalty.

Raskolnikov

Damien Duff!

£70k a week to kick a ball in the Championship! Has there ever been a higher earner at that level?

MrStuffins

invincibleirish wrote: »

The comparison you make is flawed

Maybe, but it's still his job. Its what he does for a living.

Webb missed the boom and ended up broke after his career ended. So shouldn't footballers make the money while they can?

KittyeeTrix

Of course you can understand a footballer moving to another team because of monetary incentive
What I find hard to understand is a footballer who moves from a team to a rival team eg Man city to Man Utd or vice versa unless of course it's like the Tevez thing and he would like to stick it to Utd:)

invincibleirish

MrStuffins wrote: »

Maybe, but it's still his job. Its what he does for a living.

Webb missed the boom and ended up broke after his career ended. So shouldn't footballers make the money while they can?

English Football didn't pay well in the 1980s, it does now. When Webb made a move to Man Utd from Forest it truly was making the big time, whatever he was on at Forest(i think) would have been paltry i'm sure to whatever he got at Old Trafford.

Gareth Barry is a multi millionaire, has been since his teen years, he does not have to work a day in his life when he retires whether he stayed at Villa, joined Pool or City or just decided for the laugh to retire tomorrow.

curry-muff

City probably came at him with their long term philosophy and he saw stars in his eyes, he has devoted plenty of time to villa and deserves to move on to something new if he wants to id count it more as a gamble by him, a gamble on his future though so its a risky one

Mr.Nice Guy

Each situation is different. I would hope a player would put an ambition to win things ahead of money. In fairness to Barry, with the direction City are heading it's clear in a few years they will be challenging the big four as they have the financial muscle to do so. Villa's future is less certain. I reckon he made the right choice as he'll earn more money and will have more chance of silverware than Villa will.

I think the problem is the way he went about it. He talked about needing Champions League football and so on and then went to a club which isn't even in Europe, which leaves him open to accusations of greed. He should have just admitted he felt he needed a new challenge and I'm sure there would have been less of a backlash.

greendom

What was Barry on at Villa - at least 30k a week - he will earn more in his "short" career than 99% of us will earn in our lifetimes even at that rate. It's pure greed .

The only defence he could offer is that Man City although not playing Champions League next year will soon be stuffed full of the best players in the world and he couldn't turn that opportunity down.

In the long run though I think he would have been better off staying at Villa; he could retire a hero at Villa Park, similar to Le tiss at Southampton. And that would be worth a lot

MrStuffins

greendom wrote: »

What was Barry on at Villa - at least 30k a week - he will earn more in his "short" career than 99% of us will earn in our lifetimes even at that rate. It's pure greed .

Come on now, do you mean to tell me that if you made 30k a week at your current job and were offered 100k, you'd say NO?

Would it be greed then?

Fromvert

He was offered alot more then £30k by Villa, think I read something like £80k but took £100k off City for a side wards move in my opinion. Greedy.

invincibleirish

Ok then here is an example of greed. Footballer x - already on a salary of 45-50k per week- demands a transfer to another club via his agent and some slick media PR. If footballer x handed in a written transfer request he would have got his move but would have had to forfeit a loyalty bonus from the club. But no, he did not want to do that. Footballer x wants it all, he prefers money over ambition or loyalty.

greendom

MrStuffins wrote: »

Come on now, do you mean to tell me that if you made 30k a week at your current job and were offered 100k, you'd say NO?

Would it be greed then?

It's not likely to happen to me , but seriously how much happier does 100k a week make you compared to 30k. 3ok is 1.5 million a year. Does anyone really need more than that to live a very contended life ?

MrStuffins

greendom wrote: »

It's not likely to happen to me , but seriously how much happier does 100k a week make you compared to 30k. 3ok is 1.5 million a year. Does anyone really need more than that to live a very contended life ?

You don;t NEED it but it would be nice.

I dont need a television to live, i dont need this laptop im typing on for much more than recreation. I don't need the many clothes i have because i only need one set to keep me warm at a primal level.

But these things are nice to have. And i could buy alot more if i made more money

villains77

barry went cause of money sure everbody knows that.
he was offered 80k to stay at villa. ffs he said he wanted to play in the champs league man city arent even in europeand footie next year it stinks of money. fair enouhg he has been at villa for 12 years but had he not gone to a top 4 team no villa fan would begrudge that but to join a man city team that finished in 10 place £££££££££££££££

greendom

MrStuffins wrote: »

You don;t NEED it but it would be nice.

I dont need a television to live, i dont need this laptop im typing on for much more than recreation. I don't need the many clothes i have because i only need one set to keep me warm at a primal level.

But these things are nice to have. And i could buy alot more if i made more money

But how much better a television can he get with the extra money ? How many more laptops does he need - ditto with clothes - i understand your point but it doesn't hold the kind of level he is at

dreamers75

greendom wrote: »

But how much better a television can he get with the extra money ? How many more laptops does he need - ditto with clothes - i understand your point but it doesn't hold the kind of level he is at

Its his job, its your club*


may not be your club but you get the point :P

ButcherOfNog

Football is their job, if someone offers them a better salary and better prospects, why would they not move?

Same as any job in real life. If the team they are currently with values them, they'll up the players contract to keep them. If they would rather have the money then the club will move the player on. The club is basically not prepared to pay the player the wages that they are worth.

Then of course there are exceptions, players who grew up supporting their local club, dreamed everyday of playing for them and winning stuff, those players will show loyalty, simply because for them, they are already living their dreams out.

bigstar

i dont think theres much loyalty in football from either the clubs or the players. but i do think that a player that has given 12 years of his footballing career to one club deserves more respect than barry is getting right now. 12 years with no silverware so he goes somewhere where the chance of a medal is greater. yes money is a factor, a huge factor, but hes at the latter stage of his career so one more big pay check is a factor. but he also might win something now and city have far more resources (ie lots and lotsa cash) than villa to try win something.

plus city dont get near barry unless villa agree first. so is there loyalty? fcuk no

Neil3030

Loyalty is a fallacy that's used to distract people away from what's in their best interest. The Mafia, GAA, marriage - they all use the carrot of loyalty to incentivise people into doing something that's really in someone else's best interest (Kill someone/not earn a wage/stay faithful to an aging hag).

Gaz was 100% right to move to City because his interests and needs were met, regardless of how much people with vested interests in Aston Villa might dislike his decision.

invincibleirish

bigstar wrote: »

but i do think that a player that has given 12 years of his footballing career to one club deserves more respect than barry is getting right now. 12 years with no silverware so he goes somewhere where the chance of a medal is greater. yes money is a factor, a huge factor, but hes at the latter stage of his career so one more big pay check is a factor. but he also might win something now and city have far more resources (ie lots and lotsa cash) than villa to try win something.

Barry was not loyal to Villa so does not deserve any respect, no one can begrudge a player if he wants to move but the manner in which he has conducted himself over the past few summers has been drama queenish. So much hassle and such a big ego from a good but not great player.

As for your contention that City have more chance then Villa at winning silverware, we all have our opinions. Right now the chances of any team outside the top 4 to win major silverware is pretty low imo.

stovelid

Some supporters are quick to lose it when their own players leave for more money; they're not so quick when their club in turn poaches players from smaller clubs.

Epic Tissue

If I was a professional footballer I would be all about the money. Unless it was massive money, then I'd just choose what I liked...

dreamers75

stovelid wrote: »

Some supporters are quick to lose it when their own players leave for more money; they're not so quick when their club in turn poaches players from smaller clubs.

Barry played for brighton, how much of the 11 million did they get :P

It really is just plain fan-ism, Villa fans wouldnt have an issue if he went to a better club(top 4) but as he went sideways its pissing them off. City will be the team they are fighting for the UEFA cup spot they dont want next season.

I only recall one proper "judas" at pats, dont blame him tbh he left for more money.....i would too.

invincibleirish

dreamers75 wrote: »

Barry played for brighton, how much of the 11 million did they get :P

It really is just plain fan-ism, Villa fans wouldnt have an issue if he went to a better club(top 4) but as he went sideways its pissing them off. City will be the team they are fighting for the UEFA cup spot they dont want next season.

I only recall one proper "judas" at pats, dont blame him tbh he left for more money.....i would too.

Barry never made a first team appearance for Brighton, he played for their youth team once then when Villa offered him terms Brighton jumped in for their share. Villa paid a tribunal fee & bought out his buy on clause so Brighton did very well for a player who had very little to do with them.

And yes it is fanboyism, all we want is honesty not lies like GB spoke, look at Mellberg. Like Barry, Mellberg became a man at Villa during the bad old days. When he wanted to leave he explained himself without doing all the foolish things GB did and he departed a hero.

stovelid

invincibleirish wrote: »

And yes it is fanboyism, all we want is millionaire employees of a business to somehow have the same loyalty to club as the fans do.

FYP.

invincibleirish

stovelid wrote: »

FYP.

Yeah thats a bit lame, run along there now bitter little LoI militant.

Jivin Turkey

Villa fans were pissed when Barry wanted to move to Liverpool last year, they are pissed this year when he moves to City. The guy is one of the best English midfielders going and one of the most consistent performers in the league the last six years or so. He has been at Villa ten years and they've won next to nothing and acheived very little in the league. To top it all, Villa are getting a phenomenal price for a player of his age with a year left on his contract, particularly in the current market.

Give the guy a break, what on earth could he owe Villa?

dreamers75

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barry never made a first team appearance for Brighton, he played for their youth team once then when Villa offered him terms Brighton jumped in for their share. Villa paid a tribunal fee & bought out his buy on clause so Brighton did very well for a player who had very little to do with them.

And yes it is fanboyism, all we want is honesty not lies like GB spoke, look at Mellberg. Like Barry, Mellberg became a man at Villa during the bad old days. When he wanted to leave he explained himself without doing all the foolish things GB did and he departed a hero.

They trained him to be a footballer so they are not entitled to monies? What a sad elitist opinion.

Your club is a disgrace to Europe and shouldnt be allowed in it , if a player wants to leave your club to join a club that wants to play in europe your really in no position to to feel your somewhat better than them because you earned your right to not play in europe by actually being a football club.


bit in italics needs thinking about but makes sense after a while

stovelid

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yeah thats a bit lame, run along there now bitter little LoI militant.

It's nothing to do with the league. Applies everywhere.

Why should a footballer have any loyalty whatsoever to a club outside of their own financial or footballing motives?

Supporters don't give a shit when their own clubs poach players, even when the players in question annoy their own fans by agitating for a move, so why the double-standards?

SlickRic

it's a job. end of.

as fans, we want it to be something else to those we follow, but it's not.

i'd like to think i wouldn't be swayed by money, but i'll admit that it would surely be a big factor. i'd like to think that if i was a multi-millionaire 20k a week wouldn't really be a big deal, but let's be honest, it might.

all i'll say is, i'm pretty sure i'd at least be honest with those who support me.

that's all that does my head in.

invincibleirish

dreamers75 wrote: »

They trained him to be a footballer so they are not entitled to monies? What a sad elitist opinion.

Gregory infamously fumed at the time that Brighton had no right to the player and "wouldn't recognise Gareth Barry if he was stood on Brighton beach with a seagull on his head".

"We got absolutely robbed at the time by Brighton," said Gregory.

"He was substitute for Brighton youth team once. They didn't even know who he was!

"Suddenly Bryan Jones, the youth development officer at Villa, took him from there and he came to us. We tried to agree compensation and we couldn't.

"When I put him in the first team his valuation went through the roof "Brighton were very shrewd and they knew the longer they left it the more they'd make because Barry was doing so well.

http://www.sundaymercury.net/midlands-sport/tm_headline=aston-villa-were-ripped-off-over-gareth-barry-john-gregory&method=full&objectid=20864632&siteid=50002-name_page.html

dreamers75 wrote: »

Your club is a disgrace to Europe and shouldnt be allowed in it , if a player wants to leave your club to join a club that wants to play in europe your really in no position to to feel your somewhat better than them because you earned your right to not play in europe by actually being a football club.


bit in italics needs thinking about but makes sense after a while

Meh, it was a controversial decision but to call Villa a disgrace is a bit over the top imo, and where did i imply that Villa are 'somewhat better than them'i take it you mean Man City? what are you alleging?

Headshot

the likes of scholes,giggs,nev and carragher are a dying breed these days

its a shame

stovelid

Headshot wrote: »

the likes of scholes,giggs,nev and carragher are a dying breed these days

Do you think Giggs, Scholes or Neville would have stayed with a club like Stockport County or Bury? All the players you mention were able to combine loyalty with playing at the very top level of the EPL.

Scholes is an Oldham fan, but it would be silly for him to go and play for them only.

Headshot

stovelid wrote: »

Do you think Giggs, Scholes or Neville would have stayed with a club like Stockport County or Bury? All the players you mention were able to combine loyalty with playing at the very top level of the EPL.

Scholes is an Oldham fan, but it would be silly for him to go and play for them only.

dont know mate,doubt it but when Giggs was younger,inter were very interested in him and made enquiries about hes availability even

but giggs wasnt interested afaik

dreamers75

invincibleirish wrote: »

http://www.sundaymercury.net/midlands-sport/tm_headline=aston-villa-were-ripped-off-over-gareth-barry-john-gregory&method=full&objectid=20864632&siteid=50002-name_page.html



Meh, it was a controversial decision but to call Villa a disgrace is a bit over the top imo, and where did i imply that Villa are 'somewhat better than them'i take it you mean Man City? what are you alleging?

ehh so did you get robbed by brighton Btw the other guy you got in that deal now plays for Lewes, is he a "judas" ?

im alleging that man city played their best available team in UEFA, whereas Villa whose sole existence in the PL is to get that UEFA spot decided it wasnt good enough, you should remember it was only a few months ago, you played your kids in the knockout round and got beat.

i still call villa a disgrace over that.

invincibleirish

dreamers75 wrote: »

ehh so did you get robbed by brighton

Well John Gregory thinks so....

dreamers75 wrote: »

Btw the other guy you got in that deal now plays for Lewes, is he a "judas" ?

Michael Standing is Gareth Barrys agent so i'm sure he's been called worse. Better the GBs last agent though.

dreamers75 wrote: »

im alleging that man city played their best available team in UEFA, whereas Villa whose sole existence in the PL is to get that UEFA spot decided it wasnt good enough, you should remember it was only a few months ago, you played your kids in the knockout round and got beat.

i still call villa a disgrace over that.

I'm sure if you can remember that then you can remember the huge fixture pile up and small squad MON has. Decisions were taken, i don't necessarily think it was a good idea but it made sense at the time. To label Villa a disgrace whilst other clubs have done similiar in the past is a bit OTT, but hey like i say everyone has their opinions but we;re going off topic here so feel free to pop into the Villa thread and discuss how Villas UEFA Cup campaign ended a bit more in-depth:).

stovelid wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the league. Applies everywhere.

Why should a footballer have any loyalty whatsoever to a club outside of their own financial or footballing motives?

Supporters don't give a shit when their own clubs poach players, even when the players in question annoy their own fans by agitating for a move, so why the double-standards?

No double standards as far as i'm concerned and i'm just repeating what i said earlier, no one begrudges a players right to move. Villa fans are pissed because GB said he wanted to leave to play in the CL then went to the City. If he had said he wanted a new challenge fair enough, if we wanted the moolah then fair enough but he made out how he loves the Villa and what a difficult decision it is blah blah blah. I think Barry has went stale at Villa and after his antics last summer good riddance, but we didn't all the drama, all he had to was be honest.

BaZmO*

Loyalty seems to be a one way path in favour of the fans.

If a player moves on for one reason or another, be it money or ambition, he's a traitor or a Judas. But if a player has a long dip in form it's not long before the fans are saying he's surplass to requirements and should be dispatched. You can't have it both ways.

villains77 wrote: »

barry went cause of money sure everbody knows that.
he was offered 80k to stay at villa. ffs he said he wanted to play in the champs league man city arent even in europeand footie next year it stinks of money. fair enouhg he has been at villa for 12 years but had he not gone to a top 4 team no villa fan would begrudge that but to join a man city team that finished in 10 place £££££££££££££££

Yeah but's what's the chance of Villa having European football next year compared to Man City's for the foreseeable future?



Money doesn't make me happy, but buying loads of cool stuff does.

ArmaniJeanss

I've heard that Gareth Barry was one of the more vocal opponents of MONs policy of playing the kids in that UEFA Cup tie, so possibly there is a personality clash involved as well.

You could argue that MON (and by definition Villa) showed no sense of loyalty to any of the players who wanted to win a top competition that was very much there for the winning, so what loyalty do those players then owe Villa?

dreamers75

invincibleirish wrote: »

Well John Gregory thinks so....



Michael Standing is Gareth Barrys agent so i'm sure he's been called worse. Better the GBs last agent though..

So you are fine with the ****e player you stole from brighton being let go or whatever but the good one you stole you have an issue with being a judas WHEN BOTH LEFT BRIGHTON FOR BETTER MONEY AND A CAREER WITH ASTON VILLA!!!!!

once a dirty dog????


[quote=invincibleirish;60546351
I'm sure if you can remember that then you can remember the huge fixture pile up and small squad MON has. Decisions were taken, i don't necessarily think it was a good idea but it made sense at the time. To label Villa a disgrace whilst other clubs have done similiar in the past is a bit OTT, but hey like i say everyone has their opinions but we;re going off topic here so feel free to pop into the Villa thread and discuss how Villas UEFA Cup campaign ended a bit more in-depth:).[/quote]

in fairness your right i should continue my new found hatred of villa in the villa thread.

KittyeeTrix

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barry was not loyal to Villa so does not deserve any respect, no one can begrudge a player if he wants to move but the manner in which he has conducted himself over the past few summers has been drama queenish. So much hassle and such a big ego from a good but not great player.

As for your contention that City have more chance then Villa at winning silverware, we all have our opinions. Right now the chances of any team outside the top 4 to win major silverware is pretty low imo.

I think he got the hell out of A. Villa to city because A. Villa hung onto him last year to the point of where it was embarrasing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Jeez, the man clearly wanted to go to Liverpool, why didn't they let him go?
As a City fan, I hope he can go on and do some good things for us:)

dreamers75

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I've heard that Gareth Barry was one of the more vocal opponents of MONs policy of playing the kids in that UEFA Cup tie, so possibly there is a personality clash involved as well.

did not know that, barry +1 in my book.

Headshot

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I think he got the hell out of A. Villa to city because A. Villa hung onto him last year to the point of where it was embarrasing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Jeez, the man clearly wanted to go to Liverpool, why didn't they let him go?
As a City fan, I hope he can go on and do some good things for us:)

why was it embarassing? at the time barry had a contract with villa, so they could do anything they want with barry.

invincibleirish

dreamers75 wrote: »

So you are fine with the ****e player you stole from brighton being let go or whatever but the good one you stole you have an issue with being a judas WHEN BOTH LEFT BRIGHTON FOR BETTER MONEY AND A CAREER WITH ASTON VILLA!!!!!

once a dirty dog????

Are you Drunk? why should i feel guilty about Michael Standing not making it at Villa Park in the late 1990s?

invincibleirish

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I think he got the hell out of A. Villa to city because A. Villa hung onto him last year to the point of where it was embarrasing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Jeez, the man clearly wanted to go to Liverpool, why didn't they let him go?
As a City fan, I hope he can go on and do some good things for us:)

Let me refer you to my earlier post:

Footballer x - already on a salary of 45-50k per week- demands a transfer to another club via his agent and some slick media PR. If footballer x handed in a written transfer request he would have got his move but would have had to forfeit a loyalty bonus from the club. But no, he did not want to do that. Footballer x wants it all, he prefers money over ambition or loyalty.

x = Gareth Barry

dreamers75

invincibleirish wrote: »

Are you Drunk? why should i feel guilty about Michael Standing not making it at Villa Park in the late 1990s?

Why do you feel bad for a player who left one club for more money, who then left that club for more money.


Imo you got your monies worth out of barry and standing, as a small club you really should have no issue with a bigger club taking your players.


gonna use italics again, bigger club does not mean real club just means they have more money than you its just the way it is.