Is WWE too reliant on older stars?

orestes

With all of this debate about Ric Flair coing back to WWE something has occured to me. I'm not so much worried about Flair coming back after his send-off and all that, what I am annoyed about is a man who looks like he should be checking tickets at the turn-stiles being in the ring at all, let alone being put forward as a legit threat to the champ. But then again, Flair is a legend and an icon in the industry, has been for decades, so it's easy for WWE to sell him as a legit threat (hell, he's a 16 time world champion, he's GOTTA be able to kick some ass, right?).

It's gotten me thinking, is WWE too reliant on the reputations of the older generation of wrestlers and their reputations, and is their relyance on these guys as established top-draws with instant credibility stopping the from pushing and properly developing new talent?

Currently we have Orton as champ in a program with Batista which is so boring they need to bring Flair out of retirement just to get people interested in the story-line. Jerry Lawlor is brought into the ring once every three months to punch someone a few times and make them look like a chump when he's had enough, cos he's THE KING dammit! They had to rely on two of their oldest and most established stars to save the biggest ppv of the year (just for a reference point on how long those two are going and how close to retirement they are, HBK and Taker are the only two people left in WWE to have been on the first ever edition of RAW).

Edge, Jeff, Jericho are all doing well on SD, they have a couple of talents ready to maybe step up in a few years time like Bourne and Kofi (CM Punk will never be a believable headliner imo). The Cena kids are gonna grow out of it eventually, and the less I say about the midget the better tbh as he has even less credibility as a championship contender than Punk does. So it looks like a 50/50 to me, with very few people being set up to stand out without being supported.

So, in 3 or 4 years when Flair, Lawlor, HBK, Taker and the likes hang up their boots (and here's hoping they will, cos watching old men in the ring is cringeworthy no matter how good they once were) and HHH is off running the Empire, where do they go from there?

Penn

I agree with you about Jerry Lawler. The man is a shadow of his former self. Being a face commentator and punching someone every few weeks, and maybe the odd tag match is ridiculous. Bring back Heel King and keep him behind the desk.

Smackdown has been great these past few years of building up the younger talent, with a few older susperstars to help get them over. Even in the Unforgiven Scramble match last year. Granted, Triple H won. But it was great to see TBK, MVP etc being in such a big match with him.

You'll always have a few oldies knocking about, showing up occasionally and fighting with the young guys. Most times, it'll probably be embarassing, pointless, and poorly thought out. But in some cases, it can be brilliant. Just look at Ricky Steamboat and Jericho.

Brow

Its one of the main reasons Ive been tuning out in recent times. I was bored with the rehash of some programs between the top tier wrestlers without anyone breaking through.

Its gotten better in recent times as has been mentioned but when I read Flair was back I couldnt believe it.

grames_bond

i totally agree, if they dont put some provisions in soon, once the older fellas hang up their boots wwe is going to be up a creek without a paddle. the problem is they seem to be reluctant to push anyone properly anymore since they backed the wrong horse in kennedy. TNA seem to be doing it right with the x division, but the intercontinental title in wwe seems like an after thaught to me, gone are the legendary feuds for that belt, now its just the midget or rediculously the even smaller midget holding it and has lost all credibility. wwe need to start pushing more younger stars, the best way imo would be to create stables, look what evolution did for orton and batista.

D-FENS

Come on guys, SR already called it, the future of the WWE lays in the hands of …Woo Woo Woo!

Seriously though, HBK and Undertaker fair enough should be hanging their boots up sooner rather than later, I can’t se either “doing a Flair” tbh, appearances now and then more likely. HHH could carry on for at least the next 5 years though really, at which point people like Orton and Cena will certainly be experienced super powers if they carry on the way they are going, Edge is pretty much at that level now I would have said, 11 years with the company, countless main events, he’s as much a cornerstone of the company as you can get. I would say WWE are quietly confident that their time in Legacy can help turn Priceless into reliable names for any card the way Evolution helped Randy and Batista (I know that wasn’t the whole secret to either guys’ later success, certainly not Orton’s anyway), and DiBiase has the early murmurs of a superstar.
The jury would have to be out on how long WWE can reply on Jeff and Y2J though. Mysterio is a pretty big name at this stage, and I can see him going for a few years yet. And I’d put MVP above Kofi and Bourne as one to watch for the future, and I wouldn’t give up on Punk yet. Even Ziggler has promise, but as was pointed out, so did Kennedy…
But if I was WWE, I do whatever it takes to get Storm and Shelley from TNA, now those guys have the natural charisma, and the talent to really make it in my view.

Penn

I had such high hopes for Kennedy. If I could go back in time, I'd make sure he drank plenty of milk as a child. Make them bones strong.

Actually, if I could go back in time theres probably lots of other things I'd do first, but you know what I mean.

As has been said before, more managers are needed to build up some younger stars. I'd love to see Tony Atlas with Ezekiel Jackson for a while, as I don't think Mark Henry really needs a manager. And they need to cut the Santina crap and have that guy in a few fueds for the US Title. John Morrison should have a diva with him. Legacy should have a few new members and make them a really big, powerful stable. Brian Kendrick should be pushed more as a devious heel. Hornswoggle should be given the wrong plane ticket everytime they fly out til he finally gets the message. Shane McMahon should become heel and side with the Legacy. R-Truth should be built up a bit more, but slowly. Shelton B and Haas should have a long fued with the Colons for the tag titles, perhaps even a ladder match to settle it

rossie1977

orestes wrote: »

WiBut then again, Flair is a legend and an icon in the industry, has been for decades, so it's easy for WWE to sell him as a legit threat (hell, he's a 16 time world champion, he's GOTTA be able to kick some ass, right?).

well there is that and the fact that flair has about 20-30lb on alot of the wwe roster, many of whom look like they should be modelling for mens magazine instead of being in the ring, 60 or not flair would kick most of their asses in a real fight i bet :pac:

Edge, Jeff, Jericho are all doing well on SD, they have a couple of talents ready to maybe step up in a few years time like Bourne and Kofi (CM Punk will never be a believable headliner imo).

so you see kofi and bourne as believable headliners but not punk, why??

ShawnRaven

I don't know about WWE, period being too reliant on older stars, just based on what you had already said with Edge, Jeff, and Jericho. And with the likes of Swagger, Bourne, Natalya and Tyson Kidd all in the making to further dispute your point.

But their flagship show definitely is. WWE has not gotten that balance right in years. When was the last time RAW and Smackdown were equally enjoyable at the one time? If you can answer that one without having to pause to think for the answer, well done. I personally can't think of any other time bar Summer 2002-January 2003 myself.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think the big problem is that there aren't really many tiers in the WWE the way there used to be. Look for example at the old days when the tag team division was important. Generally guys started out here and worked their way up the ranks and there was generally a path of progression in the company. The WWE would push a popular team strong and then determine which member was likely to enjoy single star popularity.

For years now though the tag division has been brushed to the side and regarded as unimportant. The likes of Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Edge, Christian, Matt and Jeff Hardy, even JBL you could say, were helped to become established from their spell in the tag team tier.

Now in recent years the WWE has failed to get behind guys that were in this division. Guys they could have done this with would include the likes of John Morrisson who did great work with MNM, Shelton Benjamin who never got to reach his full potential and who I believe could have done despite his weaknesses on the mic, and Paul London and Brian Kendrick who could have been made into a big deal but were instead treated like chumps. Lance Cade is another guy you could say deserved better, although personally I was never that impressed with him.

It seems to me these days there's very much a glass ceiling and one, maybe two guys, a year will be allowed to stake a claim for a main event spot and will have a very tough time doing so. Winning the MITB match or the ECW Title seems to offer the best hope for progression in the company.

The likes of Undertaker, Triple H, and I would say Batista, in my opinion ought to be told to step aside and allow some of the younger guys be given more of a chance to shine. If you're doing the same feuds you were doing six years previously then usually it's a sign something's wrong. Make the tag team division important again, make King of the Ring a big deal again, and try and freshen up the company. End the brand split if that's what it takes.

This won't happen of course. Next year's Wrestlemania will feature you know who in a title match, Taker will be defending his streak high up the card, etc.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

For years now though the tag division has been brushed to the side and regarded as unimportant. The likes of Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Edge, Christian, Matt and Jeff Hardy, even JBL you could say, were helped to become established from their spell in the tag team tier.

This!
There hasn't been a proper buildup for new stars for years. They tried to reinvent it by bringing back the IC title, but most of the people that held it after they brought it back (Booker T, Christian, Benjy to name some) were on the midcard threadmill for years afterwards. Benjy still is. Getting rid of proper tag teams with the death knell for a lot as far as progression is concerned with WWE.

Now in recent years the WWE has failed to get behind guys that were in this division. Guys they could have done this with would include the likes of John Morrisson who did great work with MNM, Shelton Benjamin who never got to reach his full potential and who I believe could have done despite his weaknesses on the mic, and Paul London and Brian Kendrick who could have been made into a big deal but were instead treated like chumps. Lance Cade is another guy you could say deserved better, although personally I was never that impressed with him.

I never got the whole point of Cade either, i remember hearing for years that the plan was to turn him into the next HBK. I laughed. Benjy was never gonna get past midcard level once he was thrown into the storyline with "Momma Benjaman"!, there was no recovering from that. For the plane crash that was the WWE buildup, Morrison seems to be the sole survivor really.

It seems to me these days there's very much a glass ceiling and one, maybe two guys, a year will be allowed to stake a claim for a main event spot and will have a very tough time doing so. Winning the MITB match or the ECW Title seems to offer the best hope for progression in the company.

So essentially nothing has changed since 2001, basically.

The likes of Undertaker, Triple H, and I would say Batista, in my opinion ought to be told to step aside and allow some of the younger guys be given more of a chance to shine. If you're doing the same feuds you were doing six years previously then usually it's a sign something's wrong. Make the tag team division important again, make King of the Ring a big deal again, and try and freshen up the company. End the brand split if that's what it takes.

Don't bother with KOTR, when they brought that back a few years ago, they just gave it to old fossils anyway. The brand split is as good as over anyway as they jump over left and right, so i'd agree with making it official, and yes to a tag team division, less divas pillow fights please, more women who can wrestle. Hell, i've said all this before though.

This won't happen of course. Next year's Wrestlemania will feature you know who in a title match, Taker will be defending his streak high up the card, etc.

Not to mention that MegaCena will be there in the main event to keep the kids happy too, and CP Munk will win another spotmunky fest in MITB only for him to choke when he gets to the blowoff once again.

rossie1977

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Not to mention that MegaCena will be there in the main event to keep the kids happy too, and CP Munk will win another spotmunky fest in MITB only for him to choke when he gets to the blowoff once again.

cena and taker at mania, two birds with one stone

it will give the wwes top star his first non-throwaway match since WM23 too

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

cena and taker at mania, two birds with one stone

it will give the wwes top star his first non-throwaway match since WM23 too

Would only be a matter of time before people bitch about how Cena shouldn't be the one to end the streak... just watch. You read it here first.

DM_7

Is WWE too reliant on older stars?

Maybe.

The root of the problem, as I see it, is WWE is about making money. It has shareholders, it has certain guys that have made money in the past.

When the big events like wrestlemania come up WWE go looking for the guys that made the money in the past as they have a proven record. Between the months of April to October anything can happen, many guys get chances to showcase talents and do a good job. Come november and the Royal Rumble is on the Horizon leading to mania, vince and wwe go back to guys they trust and wipe out the good work done in previous months.

This situation is probably a result of the lack of competition. WWE are in a relatively confortable position so there is no need to take a Risk and get behind the younger guys.

Jeff Hardy was amazing last year but ended up on the undercard rather than a deserved main event match at mania.

Off the top of my head Swagger, Kofi, Punk, Miz, Morrison, Carlito, Primo all performed well last year but come mania they were either ignored or had no storylines going into the event.

At the moment some good work is going into new guys getting over but I fear come the road to mania they will be forgotten about. I don't see a lack of talent, just a lack of support for them.

Rjd2

rossie1977 wrote: »

well there is that and the fact that flair has about 20-30lb on alot of the wwe roster, many of whom look like they should be modelling for mens magazine instead of being in the ring, 60 or not flair would kick most of their asses in a real fight i bet :pac:



so you see kofi and bourne as believable headliners but not punk, why??

Did you not hear that deafening pop he got when he won the US title the other night? :pac: The idea that Punk will never be a main eventer is insanely premature; sure you can hate the guy but don’t be irrational. The guy had a decent little title reign last year where ratings wise he did not exactly sink the ship. Those who don’t think Punk is a draw are probably the same ones who would mark hard for Jericho if he won the belt and he is a huge draw right? I mean seriously how the hell are Evan or Kofi more creditable? :P
I do agree that the company does seem to be very reluctant to push stars, sure they may get their moment in the sun but once the big events come around they are pushed aside. Jeff for example should have been higher on the Mania card this year seeing how insanely over he is, but of course his name is not Edge, Hunter, Cena or Orton. The over reliance on the older generation is frightening I do agree. Ideally they need to build people like Punk and Swagger but be patient with them. The fans have to have reason to care about the younger guys but sadly the WWE are not giving them much reason to.

Machismo Fan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Would only be a matter of time before people bitch about how Cena shouldn't be the one to end the streak... just watch. You read it here first.

Cena should not end the streak!

DM_7

Smackdown is on a Hot streak.

If you watch smackdown (And ECW for that matter) you would see WWE have little to worry about. I think the complete mess RAW is in has left a bad picture in many people minds.

If the sole watching of WWE was Smackdown, I would be amazed if the bleak view of the current product, held by so many, would actually exist.

Bounty Hunter

DM-ICE wrote: »

Smackdown is on a Hot streak.

If you watch smackdown (And ECW for that matter) you would see WWE have little to worry about. I think the complete mess RAW is in has left a bad picture in many people minds.

If the sole watching of WWE was Smackdown, I would be amazed if the bleak view of the current product, held by so many, would actually exist.

^is very true.

If someone just watched ECW & SD there isnt a chance that they would agee that the WWE is reliant on older stars, but Raw... thats a different story.

The problem as a few have said is that the WWE very rarely trust a young superstar with a big high profile position/angle/match when a lot of money might be lost if the angle/match goes wrong instead the look to the tried and tested. The WWE hope that one of their younger stars forces their hand by getting so over that they cant help but use him. However this of couse is very very difficult for anyone to do without first getting the pushes the WWE are reluctant to give to newer stars.

orestes

DM-ICE wrote: »

Smackdown is on a Hot streak.

If you watch smackdown (And ECW for that matter) you would see WWE have little to worry about. I think the complete mess RAW is in has left a bad picture in many people minds.

If the sole watching of WWE was Smackdown, I would be amazed if the bleak view of the current product, held by so many, would actually exist.

I agree, but that's kinda part of the problem imo. They push it as the flag-ship show but SD and ECW are miles ahead of it when it comes to developing new talent. I know that means there are a few guys ready to step-up in a couple of years and being developed, but for the time being the main show is floundering and needs constant "saving" by the older guys. Just doesn't see to make sense to me

DM_7

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

The WWE hope that one of their younger stars forces their hand by getting so over that they cant help but use him. However this of couse is very very difficult for anyone to do without first getting the pushes the WWE are reluctant to give to newer stars.

They can still get it wrong when a guy forces theri hand. When Jeff forced the wwe to get behind him they still bottled it when it came to Mania. Jeff Winning the main event at Mania would of made Mania 25 memorable, the main event we got was anything but memorable.

I really hope wwe stick with the direction they are taking with smackdown and ecw. Its just a shame so many people don't see smackdown and ecw in america.

waltersobchak

Personally i think the biggest problem is that the older stars,rarely put over the up and comers.. HHH for example at Wrestlemania 25 beating Orton only to lose to him at the next ppv, what was the point of that?? Orton was the first wrestler since 2000 to main event wrestlemania after winning the royal rumble but to lose.. thats ridiculous imo the chance to make one of the the biggest commodities for the next 10 years a legitimate big deal by beating HHH,someones whose best days are behind him but dont just to satisfy HHH's ego..

DM_7

orestes wrote: »

I agree, but that's kinda part of the problem imo. They push it as the flag-ship show but SD and ECW are miles ahead of it when it comes to developing new talent. I know that means there are a few guys ready to step-up in a couple of years and being developed, but for the time being the main show is floundering and needs constant "saving" by the older guys. Just doesn't see to make sense to me

You are spot on, it makes no sense.

WWE can spend as much time as they like building up guys on Smackdown but nobody is watching so its bordering on a waste of time unless smackdown can get to a bigger network.

orestes

DM-ICE wrote: »

You are spot on, it makes no sense.

WWE can spend as much time as they like building up guys on Smackdown but nobody is watching so its bordering on a waste of time unless smackdown can get to a bigger network.

Exactly, SD and ECW can be the greatest shows in the world, but if noone who isn't already aware of how good they are is watching Raw in it's current state they certainly aren't gonna tune in to the supposed second and third rate shows.

Rjd2

DM-ICE wrote: »

You are spot on, it makes no sense.

WWE can spend as much time as they like building up guys on Smackdown but nobody is watching so its bordering on a waste of time unless smackdown can get to a bigger network.

Yep ratings wise SD is a disaster which is not the stars fault. The issue is the network which nobody in america has,the friday night slot and of course the spoilers element. I know some bright spark in Vince's boardroom is saying right now....
"Vince you know what would get ratings on Smackdown? Less focus on the younger guys and more Batista and Legacy!"
Sad thing is Vince will one day soon agree with him.

Jayob10

I think Vince was severly stung by the whole Brock Lesnar situation. There is no point pushing a guy to the point that he becomes white hot and then he up sticks.
Vince could not trust Jeff hardy to headline Mania and id agree with him there. For pure fan support, Jeff deserved a stint as champion. However he is too much of a loose cannon. If WWE ran a storyline with Jeff as a main eventer whats to say he wouldn't go off the rails in the run up? He has a track record of screwing up. Hey im a huge fan but I understand WWE's thinking here.

There are alot of factors to be considered when pushing a future "star".

Granted they have mishandled alot of potential top talent. Shelton is one of the best and most technical wrestlers in the business. His mic skills are not top notch but he has been let down by suspect storylines. And its so sad as fans cannot forget a throwaway story forced upon him by WWE such as Momma Benjamin. Also he does not work as a heel. Give him a run as a credible baby face. And then make a decision to turn him heel after he has served as a credible face over a prolonged period of time.

I also liked Umaga at a certain point when he was just a badass wrecking machine. He was a heel sure, but he didn't bow to demands from Orton etc... and occasionally handed out an as* kicking to whoever p*ssed him off.

HHH needs to be a heel, plain and simple. Also John Cena annoys the bejaysus outta me as a face. Despite the boos he sucks up to the crowds. Why not make him a heel who detests the fans??? its more believeable.

One other major issue I have is the somewhat ridiculous changover from face to heel and vice versa. For a top star this needs to be a major moment. Unexpected but sometimes you can see it coming. I thought the way Batista broke away from HHH and Flair was classic. It was great viewing and was on the money.

On the flip side of that you have the Matt-Jeff angle. 7-8 years ago everyone talked about this as a feud of the future. One that could rival Brett and Owen. But WWE made an absolute pigs ear of it. I dont like Matt as a wrestler at all (is it just me or are his punches the most annoying of all time?)
Saying that, a great angle would have been to build Matt as a great single competitor before Jeff. Make him more successful, give him a championship run or 2. Jeff would continue to do his thing thrilling the fans. Over the years fans would always love Jeff more despite Matt being a face and being more successful. Despite this Matt and Jeff would always remain close. As the Klitchskos in boxing do, they could vow never to compete with each other. Imagine a fight brewing for 10 years???
Finally Jeff would get his shot at WWE title at Mania. Earlier in the night Matt would have lost his heavyweight title to Edge. Jeff would beat HHH to become WWE champ. And he'd have his Mania moment at the end. Confetti falling. Matt would come out and embrace his brother in an emotional moment. Then out of nowhere he could give Jeff a savage beating and cut a promo on the following episode of RAW coming accross as bitter about Jeffs popularity down the years while he was winning title after title.

There are similarities with what WWE actually did in their feud. But the timing was well off. It was too stop-start. Shame that can never be recovered now.

Anyway rant over.

Rjd2

Jayob10 wrote: »

Also John Cena annoys the bejaysus outta me as a face. Despite the boos he sucks up to the crowds. Why not make him a heel who detests the fans??? its more believeable.

But not more profitable though.

grames_bond

Rjd2 wrote: »

But not more profitable though.

and thats where the buck stops with wwe, they worship the all mighty dollar and nothings gonna make them change that!

ShawnRaven

grames_bond wrote: »

and thats where the buck stops with wwe, they worship the all mighty dollar and nothings gonna make them change that!

The irony of that particular statement being the fact that was the reason how WWE became successful in the first place. By going the entertainment route, by marketing to MTV and tieing in music with wrestling, cartoons, comic books, action figures.

They've always worshipped the almighty dollar, at least ever since Vince Jr took it over.

grames_bond

ShawnRaven wrote: »

The irony of that particular statement being the fact that was the reason how WWE became successful in the first place. By going the entertainment route, by marketing to MTV and tieing in music with wrestling, cartoons, comic books, action figures.

They've always worshipped the almighty dollar, at least ever since Vince Jr took it over.

ih ye exactly, id say wwe wouldnt be near as big as it is now (or it would have taken a much longer time) if they didnt go after that route, people need to undersatnd that wwe is a business plain and simple, they wont do anything detrimental to their profitability......anymore!

ShawnRaven

grames_bond wrote: »

ih ye exactly, id say wwe wouldnt be near as big as it is now (or it would have taken a much longer time) if they didnt go after that route, people need to undersatnd that wwe is a business plain and simple, they wont do anything detrimental to their profitability......anymore!

Especially since they become a public trading company on the NYSE. Vince has taken several gambles in the past prior to that (the first few wrestlemanias included), and nearly went bankrupt in the process. He can no longer take those gambles with other peoples money. Turner did that and we know what happened there.

But let's not completely derail the thread and go back to the topic at hand, WWE being reliant on older stars and what not...

flahavaj

We had a similar thread a few weeks back that people may be interesting in perusing:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055532890

DinnyBatman

orestes wrote: »

So, in 3 or 4 years when Flair, Lawlor, HBK, Taker and the likes hang up their boots (and here's hoping they will, cos watching old men in the ring is cringeworthy no matter how good they once were) and HHH is off running the Empire, where do they go from there?

I totally agree with everything said HOWEVER two of the above mentioned, Undertaker & HBK, gave one of the finest matches in YEARS at wrestlemania and i haven't seen any of the younger stars giving me nearly as much entertainment.

ShawnRaven

DinnyBatman wrote: »

I totally agree with everything said HOWEVER two of the above mentioned, Undertaker & HBK, gave one of the finest matches in YEARS at wrestlemania and i haven't seen any of the younger stars giving me nearly as much entertainment.

Two months on and I still don't get the hype behind that match. It was a shadow of what both of them were once capable of, and I still maintain that it gets it's credit because the rest of the card was utter dirt.

Personally speaking, i think the elimination chamber from the month beforehand with Edge, Cena, Jericho, Kane, Knox and Rey was a lot more entertaining.

But I digress, as five or six years from now, Cena, Edge and Jericho won't exactly be put in the "younger talent" bracket (they're lucky if they're even in there now), but it goes to show you how slowly talent is being built in that company.

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Two months on and I still don't get the hype behind that match. It was a shadow of what both of them were once capable of, and I still maintain that it gets it's credit because the rest of the card was utter dirt.

Personally speaking, i think the elimination chamber from the month beforehand with Edge, Cena, Jericho, Kane, Knox and Rey was a lot more entertaining.

But I digress, as five or six years from now, Cena, Edge and Jericho won't exactly be put in the "younger talent" bracket (they're lucky if they're even in there now), but it goes to show you how slowly talent is being built in that company.

Jericho is 38, while Edge is 35 which means that the WWE have only three guys under 35 who are genuine main eventers right now :eek:

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

Jericho is 38, while Edge is 35 which means that the WWE have only three guys under 35 who are genuine main eventers right now :eek:

Disturbing thought isn't it?

One of WCW's major downfalls during their boom in the 90s was indeed, the lack of pushing new stars further, that by the time 1999 rolled around, nobody was interested because it was still Nash, Hogan and Flair in the main events year in and year out.

Out of everyone there, the only ones who "broke through the glass ceiling" were Goldberg, and to a lesser extend, Diamond Dallas Page.

But heaven forbid that WWE learn from the company who nearly sent them bankrupt!

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Disturbing thought isn't it?

One of WCW's major downfalls during their boom in the 90s was indeed, the lack of pushing new stars further, that by the time 1999 rolled around, nobody was interested because it was still Nash, Hogan and Flair in the main events year in and year out.

Out of everyone there, the only ones who "broke through the glass ceiling" were Goldberg, and to a lesser extend, Diamond Dallas Page.

But heaven forbid that WWE learn from the company who nearly sent them bankrupt!

True. In case anyone is curious who the three main event guys are under 35, they would be Jeff who could leave any minute, and then Orton and Cena. I honestly do not see either Edge or Jericho for different reasons in the company in five years either.Then you have guys like HBK,Batista, Taker, and Hunter who most expect to be retired in five years.
Vince is going to have to make a serious investment in some of the younger guys, or pillage Tna or the indy scene because in five years time, Vince will be ****ed. :P

Bounty Hunter

Rjd2 wrote: »

Then you have guys like HBK,Batista, Taker, and Hunter who most expect to be retired in five years.

I dont expect Hunter to be retired in 10 years let alone 5. (wont say any more as there is a thread for that )

ShawnRaven

Nah, HHH could be very well gone within 5 years, his knees are held together with duct tape at this stage. His body has been screaming for a retirement for at least six years.

DM_7

Rjd2 wrote: »

Vince is going to have to make a serious investment in some of the younger guys, or pillage Tna or the indy scene because in five years time, Vince will be ****ed. :P

He better get some new guys over then.

I can't think of many TNA guys that will be around in 5 years time that have reached a higher spot than the Guys Vince already has.

AJ apart, the rest of the Big Players in TNA will be retired or pretty much retired, Jeff, Nash, Angle, Sting, Steiner, Booker, Dudley's, Joe (If his body lets him down like suggested in another thread).

I'm sure the position will rectify itself over time. The older guys are not going to be left out in place of younger/new guys now, but as they drop out someone will get their spots on the roster.

deanodrummer

I would say that they are too reliant on older stars. I thinkmaybe Vince doesn't learn too much from his mistakes. The last upsurge in long term booking and planning was back in the Attitude days basically because it was a choice between freshening up or goin out of business. New stars were built up really well in the space of a few years, like Jericho, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley, Eddie, Brock.

Nowadays the pressure isn't on to do that because they're pretty secure with the number 1 wrestling spot. This mean lazy booking and staleness. Add to that the fact that they know HBK, HHH and Taker etc.. have drawn well and consitently over the years that they stick with them and don't push new stars with any urgency. They couldn't even leave Ric Flair out of the picture for a full year. Back in 1993 Vince still wanted Hogan around to draw even though he was about ten years past his prime and even tried to push Luger as the new Hogan, instead of thinking outside the box until he was forced to with the Federal Trial.

HHH has been in WM main event or at least a WM Title match since 2000, with the exception of X7, and that suggests something is wrong. The sad part is that wrestling today has many stars just waiting to be pushed. I personally prefer to see Morrison, Benjamin, Kidd, Natalya, Kofi than most of the established stars. DiBiase should be pushed eventually too.

Fact is, for me personally, WWE has become extremely stale and seems I still just watch casually waiting for scraps of decent and interesting stuff and I'm losing interest more by the week. It's too polished, predictable, stale, unexciting and most of all, too reliant on older stars.

Jolt2007

I wonder if even Steamboat will be back in the ring on tv too again. See that he worked a house show against SOS http://gawdalmighty.com/2009/06/wwe-house-show-notes-jericho-makes-kennedy-joke-ricky-steamboat-wrestles/ and will be doing another in Japan http://wrestling.insidepulse.com/2009/05/29/wwe-pulls-flair-from-roh-ricky-steamboat-returns-again/

I don't know if I think it's a good thing or not with him... On one hand who better for young guys to learn from? But on the other it'd be sad to see him not being able to walk away again and potentially get injured, the chances of which I'd assume are higher at his age. Plus it's a slot that should probably be better used giving someone else a chance.

As for the next star to replace the old guard, someone could come from anywhere at anytime. One of the cool things about the business. Right now they are too reliant but who can blame them for not shaking things up too much while they're making money from it.