Obama in Cairo

bobbyjoe

Great speech by Obama, can't imagine any other President saying these things. Told it how it is, hope this will be the start of a new relationship with the Muslim world.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xl_C3eCZhw
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRaawa6lqw8
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ifEO5zYms
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E265HYACpLo
Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNPNTKXSj8
Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcG8Of_rxPE

Nodin

It's a good start, but unless he backs it up, it's just so much waffle. The day he announces measures against Israel for settlement building, then he's on the road to success.

jank

I think he just told it like it is. Quite refreshing from a president. Although of course the devil is in the detail but none the less a good marker to put down!

wes

An interesting speech in a lot of ways. There is a lot, on which I agree with and some things that I don't completely agree with.

He is certainly miles ahead of Bush.

The main problem, I see with the speech, is that there is no such thing as a "Muslim World". So in that regards the speech is a bit bizare, as there is very little commonality between say Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. Hell, there is very little commonality between the people living in the Punjab in Pakistan and those living in some of the tribal area's within Pakistan as well.

irish_bob

wes wrote: »

An interesting speech in a lot of ways. There is a lot, on which I agree with and some things that I don't completely agree with.

He is certainly miles ahead of Bush.

The main problem, I see with the speech, is that there is no such thing as a "Muslim World". So in that regards the speech is a bit bizare, as there is very little commonality between say Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. Hell, there is very little commonality between the people living in the Punjab in Pakistan and those living in some of the tribal area's within Pakistan as well.

well you know what they say , you cant please everyone

Running Bing

Damn that man can sell a speech.


One of the finest orators of my time without a doubt.

Raised some very good points I thought, of course people will say its all hollow unless he acts, but its a good start.


Hows the reaction been across the *ahem* "Muslim world"?

Sand

Hows the reaction been across the *ahem* "Muslim world"?

Al Queda have surrendered. Having re-read the Koran on the passages Obama has highlighted theyve held their hand up and agreed they made a really embarrassing screwup - apparently they read "hug the infidel" as "kill the infidel" and things just spiralled out of control from there. Theyre all on board now though. Hugs are incoming.

Hamas have condemned violence as a means to an end, recognised Israel and called for a 2 state solution.

Iran has decided to remove theocratic control and to move to a secular state where all men (and women) can follow their own path to spiritual salvation.

Across the muslim world, dictators have decided to step down and hold free and fair elections. Their extremist political enemies have decided to disband, given that this whole "Why does God need an army?" question is just too insightful to be dismissed.

Oh wait, I lie.

It was just a speech, probably more important to the US and the wider world than to the mindsets at which it was directed. Most of the tension in the Islamic world is domestic oppression. Dictatorship is the norm, extremist religious groups being the only tolerated form of dissent and even so the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt were invited at the insistence of the US. They go back to being repressed today. Probably rightfully so, but unfortunately far more reasonable and tolerant dissenters are also repressed by the same dictatorships.

Jim_Are_Great

I doubt anyone expected the speech to have instantaneous curative effects on oppression, Muslim or otherwise. Halfway through the second GWB term, if anyone was asked to write down the things which would be vitally important as first steps towards lasting world peace, a genuine, compromising gesture like this would surely have been one of those things. Just a gesture, yes; but a necessary gesture.

Manic Moran

One of the finest orators of my time without a doubt.

As long as the teleprompter works...

Long speech, I read the transcript.

Is there anything actually new in it, though? I don't see anything which is different from his predecessor, actually. Same talking points: Not at war with Islam, just extremism. Not planning on hanging around for ever in Afghanistan or Iraq. Two states, Israel and Palestine, as a goal.

I'll grant the bit about hoping to live in a world with no nukes, I don't recall hearing Bush ever say that, but somehow I don't see that happening.

NTM

Jim_Are_Great

You honestly can't see the difference between this speech and a Bush speech? You can honestly see Bush delivering that speech? You can seriously envision Bush speaking Arabic, quoting the Qur'an, and acknowledging the ways in which the Arab world has informed western history?

If this speech is followed by proper policy steps towards the middle east US foreign relations, people will look back on it as the beginning of the seachange of this era.

Mick Shrimpton

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

You honestly can't see the difference between this speech and a Bush speech?

After reading the manic-man's posts over the last year or so, I knew what this one was gonna say before I even read it...:rolleyes:

jank

Well he compared the plight of the palestinians to that of the blacks pre civil rights movement. He came down quite hard on israel telling them the building settlements must stop.
He also used the word occupation which I have never heard before from a US president.

jank

Well you know what they say about eternal cynics.....

Manic Moran

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

You honestly can't see the difference between this speech and a Bush speech? You can honestly see Bush delivering that speech? You can seriously envision Bush speaking Arabic, quoting the Qur'an, and acknowledging the ways in which the Arab world has informed western history?

Well, he does seem to officially think the Koran is a good thing. From his inaugural speech in 2005:

Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self. That edifice of character is built in families, supported by communities with standards, and sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran, and the varied faiths of our people

However, as far as quoting the Koran directly, might I, for example, reference his speech of October 6th 2005, where he points out a passage that says "killing an innocent human being is like killing all humanity, and saving the life of one person is like saving all of humanity" (And he cited chapter and verse). That passage sounds strangely familiar right now.

If you really want a difference in the speech, it's in the manner of address. Obama is far more pleasing to the ear of an anglophone. I'm not sure foreigners actually will make the distinction.

In the meantime, CNN injected this minor dose of reality.

This week's outreach to the Muslim world is an important gesture internationally but it's hardly the thing that U.S. voters want most from their president. Obama has to deliver jobs, growth and economic security.

GM car sales are down 30 percent this year and they may now be one of the most important measures of Obama's presidency in the years to come.

If Buicks, Cadillacs and Chevrolets don't start filling American roads again soon, voters won't care very much about the how he was greeted by the crowds in Cairo.

They real indicator will be in American highways and parking lots. Obama needs to sell cars.

NTM

Jim_Are_Great

Straw man, I'm afraid.

Manic Moran

Which bit?

NTM

Jim_Are_Great

With respect, I wasn't saying that Bush doesn't like/know of the Qur'ān, which is the position you seemed to be responding to. I was asking whether you honestly can imagine George W Bush delivering the speech Obama just delivered, in terms of content and style?

Manic Moran

Style, no. He has a different style, I've acknowledged this.

In terms of content, I don't see much of a difference. Arabs have had great influence on the history of the world? Check. Quote from Koran? Check. Nothing against Islam, just extremism? Check. Two state solution? Check.

The difference between the two is simply the perception that because Obama is not Bush, becasue Obama did not invade Iraq, thereby Obama must have entirely different policies. Yet in all the various different big-ticket issues, just how much has Obama actually shown to be that revolutionary? Anything from wire-tapping through the Afghan/Iraq wars. Now, I will grant that generally speaking 'perception is reality,' but I would caution against overemphasis when it comes down to nuts and bolts.

NTM

Jim_Are_Great

That's a fair enough post, but:

Obama is not Bush, becasue Obama did not invade Iraq

That really is the all important thing, I guess.

Matt Holck

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you really want a difference in the speech, it's in the manner of address. Obama is far more pleasing to the ear of an anglophone. I'm not sure foreigners actually will make the distinction.

NTM

He has a rhythm of 3 beats

This week's outreach to the Muslim world is an important gesture internationally but it's hardly the thing that U.S. voters want most from their president. Obama has to deliver jobs, growth and economic security.

GM car sales are down 30 percent this year and they may now be one of the most important measures of Obama's presidency in the years to come.

If Buicks, Cadillacs and Chevrolets don't start filling American roads again soon, voters won't care very much about the how he was greeted by the crowds in Cairo.

They real indicator will be in American highways and parking lots. Obama needs to sell cars.

peace could facillitate trade

Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self.
That edifice of character is built in families, supported by communities with standards, and sustained in our national life
by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran, and the varied faiths of our people

huh?
The ediface that self government is self government?

wes

irish_bob wrote: »

well you know what they say , you cant please everyone

True enough, but trying to please everyone in one speech, was probably a tad optimistic on his part. I actually read the whole thing, and it is a good speech and he is miles ahead of Bush, and I think he has made a important first step to changing things.

Manic Moran

Matt Holck wrote: »

peace could facillitate trade

Not entirely sure how peace helps car sales in the US, but anway.

huh?
The ediface that self government is self government?

Out of context without previous line: In America's ideal of freedom, the public interest depends on private character - on integrity, and tolerance toward others, and the rule of conscience in our own lives.

NTM

Nodin

Manic Moran wrote: »

Is there anything actually new in it, though? I don't see anything which is different from his predecessor, actually.

Theres a recognition of the suffering of the palestinians, and a seeming reversal of Bush's soft stance on the settlements.

However, as noted before, he needs to do something to break with the past.

The Mad Hatter

Manic Moran wrote: »

Matt Holck wrote: »

peace could facillitate trade

Not entirely sure how peace helps car sales in the US, but anway.

While it's a commonly-known fact that American cars are so badly made that no-one else wants them, that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to sell them abroad.

Matt Holck

Manic Moran wrote: »

Matt Holck wrote: »

peace could facillitate trade

Not entirely sure how peace helps car sales in the US, but anway.

by year 2010 China is expected to have 90 times more cars than in 1990. With automobile numbers growing at 19% a year, projections show that China could surpass the total number of cars in the U.S. by 2030

China has become increasingly dependent on Middle East oil. Today, 58% of China's oil imports come from the region.

Fueling the dragon: China's race into the oil market

not sure the the US needs car sales to thrive

paddyboy23

obama went to cario to make this great speech to the muslim world,why didnt he mention the word terrorist he said extremists was he afraid to say terrorist,cos the next day in germany he couldnt stop saying the word terrorist, whats the difference is terrorist a tabu word in the muslim world

Nodin

"terrorism" was a grand oul word years ago, but since then its been hijacked and thrown about so much its lost its respectability....

CPT. SURF

paddyboy23 wrote: »

obama went to cario to make this great speech to the muslim world,why didnt he mention the word terrorist he said extremists was he afraid to say terrorist,cos the next day in germany he couldnt stop saying the word terrorist, whats the difference is terrorist a tabu word in the muslim world

He was playing to the respective audiences. Terrorism is touchy topic down there I'd say. He is being diplomatic, trying to slowly but surely create some meaningful progress between the extremists on both sides. Diplomacy. This is politics; can it be that hard to understand?

Be glad he has some tact, jesus. :rolleyes:

Black Swan

Grand speech by Obama. Unlike the Bush speech where they threw shoes at him?

But the CNN post cited by John Wayne reminds me of the old political saying that won the Dems 2008: "It's the economy stupid!" And if Obama & Co cannot deliver a major domestic economic turnaround in the next 3.5 years, he will be a one term president.