Looking for advice on a new Build Gaming pc - Budget €600-750

LithiumKid1976

Hi all
I have managed to save €600 to put towards building a gaming pc. (might be able to stretch to €750)
I would like some advice on the components for the build.


What I Have.....
500GB sata HD
Sound card (3 years old, I’m hoping it will work in new motherboard)
Nvidia Geforce 9600gt Graphics card
keyboards, mice & monitor

What I would like (€600-€750 Budget)
A Case that looks good
Min 4gb ram
SLI ready Mother board with 2 x16 slots
Intel Dual / quad core processor
Maybe a 2nd Geforce 9600gt Graphics card for sli
Network card
Power supply with Min 400w & two 6 pin supplementary power connectors. (for sli)

Am I missing anything?
And can it be done for that budget?

.
This will be my first build, so any advice is appreciated.
Thanks
Damien

Solitaire

For that budget it can be done easily. The question is: should it?

Going to all the hassle of SLi will push the price up compared to getting a more basic (and reliable) motherboard and a single, much stronger card. And in that price range AMD tends to give Intel stiff competition for gamers, mostly due to the futureproofing and overclockability of its mid-range X3-720BE against fast but limited Intel dual-cores and the stronger multithreaded but much weaker efficiency, price and per-thread performance of a quad. This balance makes it a popular pick in your pricerange.

The big question is: what resolution is that monitor you have? That will greatly affect the choice of graphics and in turn its chunk of your budget.

LithiumKid1976

HI
ill have to check that monitor over the weekend, ill post that info then.

it doesnt have to be intel based, im looking for what ever other users would suggest.

for the sli, i thought it might be worth doing seeing as i allready have one card, i thought adding a 2nd one, and putting them in sli would give me a fairly good gaming experience?


Thanks
Damien

Solitaire

It might, but SLi is generally a bit more glitchy and unstable and gives a bit less scaling than CrossFire nowadays (big reversal compared to back when the 9600GT was released - CF sucked back then). The big issues is the cards themselves - 9600GT was a nice mid-range card back in the days of the HD3870 but the last generation of GPUs have really toasted it - its only a little better than the old HD4670, a budget-range AMD card. And SLI'd 9600GTs are roughly equivalent to a single €90-100 HD4850, and being SLI may actually get worse with time as nVidia pulls back on G94 driver support...

Y'see, although the 9600GT was always one of the best cards to use in an SLI config its now pretty old and we all know how great nVidia is at legacy GPU support... by the time 8800GTS 320MB (first 8000 GPU) hit the shops driver support for the 6600GT (last 6000 GPU release) was practically non-existant and people were rolling back their ForceWare updates to remain fully stable on some games! Given the 9600GT is a G94 (oldest 9000-series) GPU I wonder how long its going to remain supported now that even 55nm GT200 is getting long in the tooth? And we all know that cutting-edge driver support is utterly vital for multi-card setups... Without friendly ForceWare updates to tell newer games about the virtues of SLI'd G94s performance may start to sag horribly. SLI just isn't a great futureproofing solution...

LithiumKid1976

Hi solitare
Thanks for the posts.
i suppose the next question is, what would you recommend for that budget, if you were not tied into the sli ready motherboard + 9600gt card?

i had bought this card in the states in feb (foolishly thinking it would fit my pc, which it did - but not with the power cable connected so ive never actually got to use it, and wont be able to get back to the states to return it, so im kinda keen to get some use out of it......lesson learned )

i still havent got a chance to check my monitor, ill check it tomorrow eve, and post info then,

marco_polo

LithiumKid1976 wrote: »

Hi solitare
Thanks for the posts.
i suppose the next question is, what would you recommend for that budget, if you were not tied into the sli ready motherboard + 9600gt card?

i had bought this card in the states in feb (foolishly thinking it would fit my pc, which it did - but not with the power cable connected so ive never actually got to use it, and wont be able to get back to the states to return it, so im kinda keen to get some use out of it......lesson learned )

i still havent got a chance to check my monitor, ill check it tomorrow eve, and post info then,

You could sell it on adverts I suppose, probably won't get much for it, but when you can get a better rig without 9600gtX2 sli, might as well bite the bullet.

Solitaire

LithiumKid1976 wrote:

foolishly thinking it would fit my pc, which it did - but not with the power cable connected

Dang. I remember that topic - fecking case could only take a low-profile card and then blocked the PCIe power connector! :mad: You really should have taken a Dremel to the case at that point...

And "case that looks good" will be trial-and-error, as case aesthetics are very subjective.

Anyway, my two cents:


This assumes you're using the old HDD, DVD burner and monitor as stated.

It also assumes you're not going mental with overclocking. If you are then a CPU cooler and some more case fans may not go amiss. Some slight OCing (painfully easy with the BE CPU) won't hurt

The X3-720BE is popular for a reason - not too fast, not too slow, easy OCing, cheap and the combination of speed and the third core (combined with minimal competition from true quads anywhere near its price range) means there isn't much that can catch you out - games and fast single/dual-thread apps can munch a slow quad the same way a massively-multithreaded app *cough*GTA4*cough* can munch a fast dualie.

Mobo is a cheap 790FX with that all-important SB750 for improved efficency and OC. The only cheaper one is really designed with the newer "budget" AM3 rigs in mind - i.e. a bit ahead of its time (there'll be a flood of 'em soon though, AM3 dualies having already appeared on HWVS).

RAM is the cheapest 2x2GB 1600MHz kit I can find (once it comes back in stock). Even then it has evilly tight latencies - OCZ seem to be back on form with some very nice DDR3 chips on hand as of late

Graphics is almost a defensive move, that card is a bargain though (a "proper" 55nm 216-core GTX260 with custom cooling for only €150?!). Should work well at most resolutions. If you only have a 1650*1080 screen that card will fly, but a slightly more expensive (~€180) pair of HD4850s in CF will munch almost anything else - rouglhy as strong as FOUR 9600GTs, if they could ever scale that far! :P If you have a full 1080p monitor I can increase the budget on that if you want - and did I see the cheapie HD4890OC there just drop to a very reasonable €185? Even in SLI any number of 9600GTs would suffer here - the 512MB framebuffer just can't really cut 1900*1080 all that well...

Case... well, you kinda have to pick yourself. That said, I've seen mid-range X3-720BE and basic Intel quads work quite happily in even a €30 CM Elite 330, and I'm sticking entire i7 power-rigs in the ~€90 CM HAF 922M (the smaller one!) so anything beyond that is most certainly overkill The CM690 is sweet and quiet but only starts with the three 120mm fans and sourcing the 140mm ones for it can be a pain. But its still a good "non-juvenile" (ahem) case even stock.

PSU... why are there so few cheapie sub-600W models worth buying? :rolleyes: Seeing as you can only run a single GTX260 on that mobo the Tagan SuperRock 500W (Enhance methinks?) should hold nicely even under heavy OC. Same if you went with two HD4850s, although 600W might be a bit more comfortable then. But if you got the HD4890 and actually wanted to throw in a second HD4890OC in there in the future you'd need a decent 700W+ model for futureproofing. Otherwise the 500W or higher would work fine with just one (HD4890OC is a insane overclocker - over 1GHz easy!)

LithiumKid1976

Hi
just gettin back some details to you of the current monitor i have, its a
ProView EM-170 with a max resolution of 1280 x 1024.

Would that be good enough?

Regards
Damien

LithiumKid1976

marco_polo wrote: »

You could sell it on adverts I suppose, probably won't get much for it, but when you can get a better rig without 9600gtX2 sli, might as well bite the bullet.

Cheers Marco,
will probably have it up there during the week.

Effluo

LithiumKid1976 wrote: »

Hi
just gettin back some details to you of the current monitor i have, its a
ProView EM-170 with a max resolution of 1280 x 1024.

Would that be good enough?

Regards
Damien

Maybe you should get a new monitor....

Solitaire

Sorry, meant to post this ages back but my connection dropped and ate the post while my back was turned

Is it comfortable to use? I'm guessing its a 17", maybe 19" at best. If not you need a new monitor to boot :rolleyes:

If its okay for your intended uses it actually helps economise on graphics as 1280*1024 is almost a joke nowadays A single HD4850 should have you flying. You could in theory get a second 9600GT and the neccessary mobo (which means switching back to an Intel CPU and DDR2 memory) to get slightly better performance than the single HD4850 (9600GT rocks at those low resolutions) but it'd probably contribute further to your costs and you may very well be putting a millstone around your neck by going SLI with old hardware when a single €90 card would work just as well, use less juice, produce less heat, have less weird driver issues, a better future and still give full platform (AMD or Intel) flexibility. :P

LithiumKid1976

Hi all

thanks for the info and advice.

giving that i would be spending a good bit of money on this rig, it makes sense to make it the best and most up to date that it can be. with that in mind, i think i should push the budget up to €800, sell the 9600gt, and look to include a new monitor. mayeb a 2nd graphics card?

Any suggestions welcome..

leninbenjamin

LithiumKid1976 wrote: »

mayeb a 2nd graphics card?

I'd go for a single card over an SLI/Crossfire setup all the time.

if you've the money there for two cards, you should have a look at the 200s from Nvidia, plus they'd be ever so slightly more future proofed than the ATIs imo.

Solitaire

But that means blowing extra money on C2Q and a tetchy nForce mobo; I sure don't see any SLI on AM3 or indeed on Core-i7 boards (at least ones below the €250 mark!). Plus with C2Q you're going to be blowing a lot more money on either a fastish CPU or heavy-duty OC gear for a Q66/6700. And dropping down to a dual-core instead would invalidate the entire future-proofing argument anyway

Once more 40nm GPUs come out GTS240/250 will be practically obsolete anyway; only 55nm GPUs with some life left are the HD4890OC and maybe the GTX260+, given its now damn cheap (hitting €150!). HD4890OC starts life at 900MHz and goes waay past 1GHz so its got some gasp left in it; by contrast the GTX275 and its SLI-on-a-PCB brother GTX295 are too pricey and high-stressed; GTX285 is lovely but terrible value for money given a HD4890OC pushing 1GHz will pull level for a little over half the money.

leninbenjamin

Solitaire wrote: »

GTX285 is lovely but terrible value for money given a HD4890OC pushing 1GHz will pull level for a little over half the money.

but that again would require more investment in peripherals for cooling would it not? I thought the 4890s run hot enough to begin with?

also in case of misunderstanding, i didn't mean he should look at getting two 240/250. i meant he should invest in one 275 or 285 instead.

Solitaire

leninbenjamin wrote:

also in case of misunderstanding, i didn't mean he should look at getting two 240/250. i meant he should invest in one 275 or 285 instead.

Sorry, misunderstood the first post

And AFAIK the HD4890OC will run plenty fine over 1GHz as the higher-binned RV790s use a lot less juice to achieve the same speeds as the low-bin RV790s you get in the regular HD4890, thus less heat on that big-ass cooler. Look up XBit and see the temps and power consumption figures they got when they downclocked a HD4890OC to run at HD4890 speeds. I'd be far more worried about the i7-style Turbo Mode on the Asus HD4890; that pushes the normal "hot" RV790 further through an exceedingly crude weapons-grade overvolt. Yipes!

LithiumKid1976

Hi solitare
What website were you using to get the parts / prices in this post?

Cheers
Damien

Effluo

hardwareversand.de is the website.
They have a pretty good pc builder(click PC Konfigurator and then basic system)

hardwareversand.de will build the pc for you for E20 but for them to do this you need a graphics card in the machine.

The only thing about them is the majority of their graphic card prices are not great!

So maybe if you were going to build it yourself you could get which ever card you wanted from somewhere cheaper, maybe you could check the bargain alerts for the cheapest places right now.

LithiumKid1976

Thanks Effluo
ill have a poke around it once i can figure out how to set up my account...

do you know if its foolproof? ie will it give you a warning if you try to put a motherboard and processor together that wont work together?

Effluo wrote: »

hardwareversand.de is the website.
They have a pretty good pc builder(click PC Konfigurator and then basic system)

hardwareversand.de will build the pc for you for E20 but for them to do this you need a graphics card in the machine.

The only thing about them is the majority of their graphic card prices are not great!

So maybe if you were going to build it yourself you could get which ever card you wanted from somewhere cheaper, maybe you could check the bargain alerts for the cheapest places right now.

leninbenjamin

LithiumKid1976 wrote: »

Thanks Effluo
ill have a poke around it once i can figure out how to set up my account...

do you know if its foolproof? ie will it give you a warning if you try to put a motherboard and processor together that wont work together?

it's not entirely fool-proof, system but you can see quite clearly in the information page with each product what it's compatible with, and the products themselves are grouped by subcategory.

eg. LGA775 are a subcategory of the mainboards section, and then on each individual product page there'll be a list under additional information of what CPUs it's compatible with, eg. Core2Duo, Core2Quad etc.

Solitaire

Effluo wrote:

The only thing about them is the majority of their graphic card prices are not great!

How? Almost all the cards there are a shade cheaper and some are a lot lower. HD4850 for a shade over €90, GTX260 55nm for a shade over €150, genuine HD4890OC for €185 - lots of places don't even sell those, and those that do usually stick a premium on. Even Pixmania can't touch them (latest cut still leaves the HD4890OC at €199) :P

Effluo

Solitaire wrote: »

How? Almost all the cards there are a shade cheaper and some are a lot lower. HD4850 for a shade over €90, GTX260 55nm for a shade over €150, genuine HD4890OC for €185 - lots of places don't even sell those, and those that do usually stick a premium on. Even Pixmania can't touch them (latest cut still leaves the HD4890OC at €199) :P

I stand corrected!
soz about that when i was getting my 4870 overclockers were more than €20 cheaper than hrws.de(mind you the exchange rate was different then)

Didn't realise that cheers

Solitaire

Yeah, its a bit manic lately. Best place to get stuff changes on a daily basis! :eek:

leninbenjamin

Solitaire wrote: »

Yeah, its a bit manic lately. Best place to get stuff changes on a daily basis! :eek:

that's for sure.

pencil

Sorry Posted in the incorrect place - please delete

colwood

Wait for intel core i5 cpu if you are going to build. ETA September. The i5 is basicaliy on par with the i7 but it only uses 2 channels of memory instead of three for core i7. Therefore ram, motherboard and cpu will be far cheaper than any rig built around core i7. Plus if you wait the few months there will be sata III, usb 3, Direct X 11 graphics cards and windows 7 you would be mad not to wait a few months. And core i5 is faster than i7 920 due to higher turbo mode.

LithiumKid1976

just to say thanks for your input into this.

Machine is up and running now, all working very well.
running windows 7.

cheers