back to education allowance please help!

Blueprint

As far as I know, you have to be on the dole until you start your course or you won't qualify for the BTEA.

However, if you've been out of work since April 2009, you should qualify for the higher level of maintenance grant of over 6 thousand Euro, which is slightly less than the BTEA, but still a good bit of money! They'll assess you for the grant on last year's income and I think the cut off for the higher level of mature students grant is 20K or so. However, you won't qualify for rent allowance etc. if you're only on the grant, so that could be a big financial hit.

I'd go down to the Citizen's advice and ask them if I was you.

son.

I will get down to citizens advice, unfortunately not open till monday! But it will be another one of my first stops thank you.

daner31

Hi,
well I will try and help but I would definitely get more info off your local welfare office. I am in a similar situation, although I havent been offered a job, I have been offered a college place in october and I am currently on JB. My understanding is that you will only get BTEA once you have actually been accepted by the college. and furthermore you may only start getting it once the course starts. To my knowledge BTEA has nothing to do with having a job or not so I think you should be allowed to work once you are on it - please dont quote me on this as i have to go the my office this week to make sure!!!!
another scenario, if you get a full-time job in the meantime and then quit to go to back to college then im guessing social welfare wont agree to fund your college fees as they will ask why you cant pay for it yourself!! - im fairly sure you have to have been on JBA/JSB for a certain period(maybe 6months or more?) and be offered a place to qualify.
Also i was told in my local office that the BTEA policies can change every now and then so you should keep up to date on its rules from SWelfare.

To the best of my knowledge you can work while getting the BTEA grant as its a different scenario to JSA or JSB....but i think you only get it once you have confirmed your college place and are about to start - oh and its a similar weekly payment to JSB/JSA so you would have to get the cash yourself for the fees and then pay it back during the year. well thats my penny's worth! good luck with it!

son.

thanks Daner31 for your advice, its pretty hard when you've been waiting for a full-time job a year and a half and one comes up when you're thinking that the best option is actually to go back to education because it works out the same as working on min wage! I guess I might have to hang out till sept. Its just I really want to work and need a new computer for the course, which I could of saved up for if the BTEA started as you applied rather than at the starting date of the course! Its madness, its okay doing a course but what about being able to afford the resources that are needed?! Anyway just one last question, on the BTEA option i'm assuming that means that you can't work during the summer periods for the years you do the course? for instance if the course is 3rd level?

Blueprint

You can work in the summers after you've started your course, as you don't automatically get the dole. You have to reapply for the dole if you can't find summer works, but your BTEA kicks back in automatically when you resume your course in September as long as you're progressing.

You also get a 500 Euro book allowance grant at the start of the term, so if you look for a second hand computer, that should help.

jano1

Looks like you have to choose - do you want to go back to work or go to college. You will only qualify for BTEA when your course starts (not when you apply) and if you don't meet the BTEA rules at that time you won't receive it. Once you START getting BTEA you can work part-time no problem and once the year ends for the summer BTEA stops until you sign up and register for second year. During the summer you can look for work and possibly sign on if you cannot find any if you satisfy the means test or have enough contributions etc.

With regard to fees mentioned above, you do not have to pay any tuition fees if you have not been to college before or if you are not repeating a year within 5 years of last doing the year, whether you get BTEA or not. You cannot get BTEA and a maintenance grant but you can apply to have the yearly reg fee (approx €1700 per year) paid by your local grant authority on your behalf if you satisfy their means test. Look up studentfinance.ie

Good luck!

daner31

son. wrote: »

thanks Daner31 for your advice, its pretty hard when you've been waiting for a full-time job a year and a half and one comes up when you're thinking that the best option is actually to go back to education because it works out the same as working on min wage! I guess I might have to hang out till sept. Its just I really want to work and need a new computer for the course, which I could of saved up for if the BTEA started as you applied rather than at the starting date of the course! Its madness, its okay doing a course but what about being able to afford the resources that are needed?! Anyway just one last question, on the BTEA option i'm assuming that means that you can't work during the summer periods for the years you do the course? for instance if the course is 3rd level?

I was in my local welfare office yesterday and overheard the conversation between someone and a welfare officer, which sort of anwered my questions. The guy asked if he could work for the summer in between terms. Short Answer: No. Long Answer: "You can but you have to get a job and then get FIRED from that job in order to re-apply for the BTEA funding at the start of the next term. You can't leave of your own accord." This sounded ridiculous to me and the guy seemed to think so too. So, you can't get a job and leave on good terms to return the next summer, you have to actually get fired! Seems crazy, getting a job and then plotting your own dismissal!!, "I could call the manager an asshole.., egg his car...the list goes on...."
-Its a ludicrous system, your only real option is to go back on the dole during the summer months to qualify for the BTEA again.
Then, I didnt find this out but I presume you cannot work part-time during the year either because if you had very few college hours you could effectively make a lot of money from two sources of income.
So, my advice, use the taxpayers money to pursue your hobbies or go on a nice summer vacation before returning to a fees free college year
Ridiculous, but it could be worse...

daner31

Someone quoted about €6000 for a maintenance grant....Its not that much if its the same thing Im thinking of. My friend got the full sum of about €3500 per college term, but for this you have to meet certain criteria, such as living over 24km from the college, and parents earning under a certain amount. If you dont qualify for this then you only get half this amount, anyway its all to be found on the city council website.
If you can get the full grant then brilliant, as you could also work part-time and full-time during the summer, but its hard to find any job at the moment, not least a part time one.

araic26

Wondering if any1 in the same situation??
Got told today that i would have a fulltime job for the summer. I have been workin part time since the start of the year till now, thought that was how it would be for the summer too, was delighted cause for sure now id get the BTEA when i start college..
Now im thinking i wont get the BTEA cause il have full time job for summer, but i am a single parent and surely to god they cant expect me to survive on just my savings (and not alot of it either) for the nine months in col.. so instead of the BTEA will i keep my One parent family payment??

Wont be eligible for grant either!!!

daner31

Blueprint wrote: »

You can work in the summers after you've started your course, as you don't automatically get the dole. You have to reapply for the dole if you can't find summer works, but your BTEA kicks back in automatically when you resume your course in September as long as you're progressing.

You also get a 500 Euro book allowance grant at the start of the term, so if you look for a second hand computer, that should help.

are you sure about that? I overheard an appointment in the dole office other day and basically they told the guy that he can only get a summer job and then get FIRED in order to qualify for BTEA again - it sounded ridiculous but thats essentially what they told him - if you get a job and leave of your own accord before start of term then Social welfare wont give you the BTEA!! -needless to say the guy was none too impressed. The only thing i could think of was if the guy was changing colleges as a progression or something, but he had finished a year of college anyway. that seems to make sense so maybe his situation was different...

so, obviously you have to be on the dole before starting a new course, but you can work so long as its between terms once the course has started? AND, can you work part time during the course??
-would be nice if they just told you the rules in black and white on the feckin internet to save all the hassle, ahhhhh Ireland!

daner31

araic26 wrote: »

Wondering if any1 in the same situation??
Got told today that i would have a fulltime job for the summer. I have been workin part time since the start of the year till now, thought that was how it would be for the summer too, was delighted cause for sure now id get the BTEA when i start college..
Now im thinking i wont get the BTEA cause il have full time job for summer, but i am a single parent and surely to god they cant expect me to survive on just my savings (and not alot of it either) for the nine months in col.. so instead of the BTEA will i keep my One parent family payment??

Wont be eligible for grant either!!!

cant say for sure mate as your situation is a bit different but Im fairly sure the BTEA is only for people coming off the dole and starting education....you cant get it if you work directly before going into college...but you are surely entiitled to something while you study, either from social welfare or from the city council grant scheme....check it out for definite in your local office, good luck!!

Blueprint

daner31 wrote: »

are you sure about that? I overheard an appointment in the dole office other day and basically they told the guy that he can only get a summer job and then get FIRED in order to qualify for BTEA again - it sounded ridiculous but thats essentially what they told him - if you get a job and leave of your own accord before start of term then Social welfare wont give you the BTEA!! -needless to say the guy was none too impressed. The only thing i could think of was if the guy was changing colleges as a progression or something, but he had finished a year of college anyway. that seems to make sense so maybe his situation was different...

so, obviously you have to be on the dole before starting a new course, but you can work so long as its between terms once the course has started? AND, can you work part time during the course??
-would be nice if they just told you the rules in black and white on the feckin internet to save all the hassle, ahhhhh Ireland!

I am sure, as I've been on the BTEA since last October and I got a letter from the Social Welfare a couple of weeks back, asking me for my end date this term and my start day next and to give a good reason if I wasn't going back. It then informed me that the BTEA was only paid during the College year, however under certain circumstances I could get Social Welfare if I was unable to find work. I am also positive that you are allowed to work part time, although I haven't done so.

I was told by the SW officer in charge that my course didn't qualify for BTEA when I applied when I was 100% guaranteed by the college that it did.(And I got it with no issues a week after I applied.) I think they just like to scare you!

And it is all available on the Internet:

If you were previously getting an unemployment payment, the allowance is paid during the academic year only. It is not paid for the summer period between academic years.
BTEA participants who cannot find a job during the summer may claim an unemployment payment, but only if they satisfy the usual qualifying conditions.
If you are going on to the next year of your course or moving to a higher qualification, you will get your BTEA again from the start of the new academic year regardless of whether you got an unemployment payment for the summer.
If you finish one course, but intend moving to a higher qualification in the following academic year, you must re-apply for BTEA. The allowance is not paid between courses.
Your BTEA payment may affect any Maintenance Grant – please check 'www.education.ie' for details.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW70/Pages/ABacktoEducationAllowanceBTEA.aspx

daner31

excellent, thanks for the help

delama

Wonder if anyone can answer this question. Do I need to be on JB for 12 months when I get offered a place in college, or when I actually start college?
I won't find out until early July if I'll get a place. I've been on JB since early august last year, but started working part time in Jan so I think JB will continue past end of July.
But I'm not sure when I should apply. As soon as I hear if I get a place, or wait until closer to the start of the college year, which will be mid sept.
Any comments greatly appreciated!

Blueprint

It's when you actually start college. You can apply as soon as you get the letter offering you a place, but I have a notion (from waiting around for appointments and overhearing people complain) that some people actually kinda got lost in the system because they'd applied so early that the applications weren't being processed yet.

They'll only start paying it once you show proof of having started your course anyhow, so when you apply doesn't really make that much difference.

delama

Thanks Blueprint. I was gonna apply earlier for peace of mind more than anything, but I think I'll hold off till end of August anyway.
Do you know if JB stops paying as soon as you apply for BTEA?

Blueprint

No, they still pay you until you've been approved. It only took a week to get approved in my case and they put back my sign on day two weeks when I applied for it so that I'd be able to attend college. I started a couple of weeks after most people though, so that probably helped the speed.

jewell

I rang btea dept today, just to ask when I should apply etc and I was given totally incorrect info:mad:. I'm on carer's allowance at the moment and it is one of the social welfare payments that qualifies for btea. The reason I know this is because I just had a look a the btea booklet......just a pity people who work in btea office don't take a little peep at their booklet. The girl I spoke told me absolutely no way could I qualify when I was on carer's allowance unless I was in college for maximum of 15hours so I told her that I would be coming off carers to go on btea and would be in college full time and that it says in the book that carers qualify for btea, she enventually said hang on a minute and asked some colleagues who told her YES I transfer from carers to btea. You would think the staff of a specialised dept would surely know the scheme inside out. Like another poster I thought I could apply in July when I get my offer(fingers X) but they said no, not until Sept.

delama

Hi Jewell,
I'm massagepro on rollercoaster!! I've been looking for info on btea also.
Can't believe the office gave you the wrong info. I've heard that happening before too, thats why I'm nervous applying for it.
i've decided that if I get an offer in early july, I'm going to fill out my btea application form and bring it into social welfare office myself in early august. I've to apply to SW as i'm on JB, not sure where you have to apply.
I know a poster on here defo applied for btea before september. She got a letter saying she was approved in august, but she then had to wait until she registered with the college before she received a payment.

So this is how I think it will work... I'll get offered a place (please god) in early july, bring forms and letter of offer to SW in early august, get approved for btea (hopefully) sometime in august, register with uni in september, then send whatever i need to SW and start payments.

I really hope my plan works out!! I hope I have it right too. So I think if you go in in person, you might be better off???...

ICN

I'm going through this myself at the moment too..

On BTEA & going back onto JSB for the summer.. only I definitely wont have enough days left to cover the whole Summer.. in fact, only enough 'til next week.

But I'm not worried about that as we're doing ok for money @ the moment.. its just a bit annoying trying to figure out what exactly is happening when you go back in September.

Looks to be that you dont have to be technically receiving JSB or JSA - ie: a payment of any kind.

All you need is to be on the Live Register - to show that your status has not changed - as in Employed.

The best thing to do for anyone that is worried about this sort of stuff is just to go straight to the horses mouth & speak to someone in SW. Boards is great, but tbh.. this is one thing that is definitely going to keep you awake at night if you dont get the full lowdown fast.

Now.. this could all be utter Sh*te.

- and thats the point. Go check it out.

I'm going back in next week to get an update from them.. so I'll post up when that happens in case it might help someone.

Have to say, far play to the SW Guys. They can be very overworked & understaffed. I've always found them very decent & helpful in directing you to exactly what is entitled & required.

ICN

Blueprint wrote: »

And it is all available on the Internet:

If you were previously getting an unemployment payment, the allowance is paid during the academic year only. It is not paid for the summer period between academic years.
BTEA participants who cannot find a job during the summer may claim an unemployment payment, but only if they satisfy the usual qualifying conditions.
If you are going on to the next year of your course or moving to a higher qualification, you will get your BTEA again from the start of the new academic year regardless of whether you got an unemployment payment for the summer.
If you finish one course, but intend moving to a higher qualification in the following academic year, you must re-apply for BTEA. The allowance is not paid between courses.
Your BTEA payment may affect any Maintenance Grant – please check 'www.education.ie' for details.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW70/Pages/ABacktoEducationAllowanceBTEA.aspx

Amen.. We'll hold them to that!

delama

ICN, what course were you doing this year? I'm hoping to enter a 4 year degree, and as far as I know, btea payments will stop end of may, when the academic year is over, then starts again when you register in september, and send SW the details. It doesn't matter if your on SW during the summer or not if its the same course continuing on.

Hope thats right and that it helps!

ICN

delama wrote: »

ICN, what course were you doing this year? I'm hoping to enter a 4 year degree, and as far as I know, btea payments will stop end of may, when the academic year is over, then starts again when you register in september, and send SW the details. It doesn't matter if your on SW during the summer or not if its the same course continuing on.

Hope thats right and that it helps!

Hi delama, how are things?

Yeah I'm doing a 4'er as well. Just finished year 1 & I would say I'll be invited back - Hopefully!

Thats what I understand from it too.. what you've just said there - but the info relating to it is a little inaccessible until you get used to the Matrix!

I suppose each case is different with its own particular complications - so the best option is always just to ask the SW IMO.

I'm going back to the same course - so everything should be ok.

seanypf

Hi Bindi I really feel sorry for the situation your in. I find myself in a similar situation
Iv been offered a degree course as mature student in sept. The problem is im 2 weeks short of the time I need to qualify for btea aaggghhh
Iv been reading that I need 234 days on welfare. I have 255 the problem is they dont count sundays as a day of unemployment which is ridiculous. this means to the SW, I only have 220 days.
Its driving me crazy. Becuase I spent 2009 abroad looking for work im not entitled to maintenance grant. During this year I sepnt ALL my savings trying to get set up in the U.S. Didnt work out and came back to Ireland in Jan.
The only way I can afford to go back to college is by getting BTEA.
Does anyone think its possible for the college to say that my course starts 2 weeks after it actually does thus giving me the time I need?? or should I tell the SW that I am 2 weeks short of the time needed and hope they give me btea anyway??
the way things are with cutbacks Im pretty sure that the SW are following everything to the letter of the law and they wont give any leeway to people in my situation. Should I just chance my arm and say that the course doesnt start until mid october?
Its crazy. I left school at 17, have a trade which is now useless, have been paying taxes for 12 years. I decided to go abroad and try and find work instead of sitting at home signing on and now find myself being penalised. It just doesnt make sense. If I dont get BTEA this year it means staying on dole for another year doing nothing until next year comes around, all because im 2 weeks short
ideas people??

ICN

ICN wrote: »

Hi delama, how are things?

Yeah I'm doing a 4'er as well. Just finished year 1 & I would say I'll be invited back - Hopefully!

Thats what I understand from it too.. what you've just said there - but the info relating to it is a little inaccessible until you get used to the Matrix!

I suppose each case is different with its own particular complications - so the best option is always just to ask the SW IMO.

I'm going back to the same course - so everything should be ok.

Update - Went back to SW office - Said everything is cool for Sept, even though my JB has run out.. You need to still be on the register as unemployed & have been originally eligible - and so just continue if your situation remains the same. Great big relief!

ICN

seanypf wrote: »

... ideas people??

I'd go & speak to someone in the SW - Maybe higher if possible just to make sure you have taken it as far there as poss.

Is there any chance that you will qualify for Jobseekers Allowance? Even a partial payment?

Failing that, I'd be straight down the local TD / Councillor.

Best of luck Mate.

daner31

seanypf wrote: »

Hi Bindi I really feel sorry for the situation your in. I find myself in a similar situation
Iv been offered a degree course as mature student in sept. The problem is im 2 weeks short of the time I need to qualify for btea aaggghhh
Iv been reading that I need 234 days on welfare. I have 255 the problem is they dont count sundays as a day of unemployment which is ridiculous. this means to the SW, I only have 220 days.
Its driving me crazy. Becuase I spent 2009 abroad looking for work im not entitled to maintenance grant. During this year I sepnt ALL my savings trying to get set up in the U.S. Didnt work out and came back to Ireland in Jan.
The only way I can afford to go back to college is by getting BTEA.
Does anyone think its possible for the college to say that my course starts 2 weeks after it actually does thus giving me the time I need?? or should I tell the SW that I am 2 weeks short of the time needed and hope they give me btea anyway??
the way things are with cutbacks Im pretty sure that the SW are following everything to the letter of the law and they wont give any leeway to people in my situation. Should I just chance my arm and say that the course doesnt start until mid october?
Its crazy. I left school at 17, have a trade which is now useless, have been paying taxes for 12 years. I decided to go abroad and try and find work instead of sitting at home signing on and now find myself being penalised. It just doesnt make sense. If I dont get BTEA this year it means staying on dole for another year doing nothing until next year comes around, all because im 2 weeks short
ideas people??

Hello,
maybe i can help...I am in similar situation. I went into the dole office recently though and they said I have 137 days so far, which from the time i started on the dole iis counting Sundays. The officer therefore said that i should just about make it - i worked out i will have 237 days, just over the 234 days they quoted. So, in my instance, SW seemed to be counting all days from when i started claiming. But, as you state otherwise, this makes me start to doubt everything, and the SW officer's promises. only way then is to check for sure, which i will do tmrw. But, first time i went in they said i should be fine, no reason not to get it. Id say they are fairly stringent, but also maybe depends on the office and people you deal with. but its strange, the rules seem very ambiguous and the officers should know the rules in black and white and not leave people hanging in limbo. I want to make sure too, as if i cant get it after all i will look for a job again so i can pay for the damn course myself.
Be persistent with them - either you can get it or not. maybe apply now anyway for the BTEA, and see what happens, they may feel sympathy you if you plead your case well...worth a shot!!

greener44

Hi i was just wondering does the BTEA pay your college fee's and do you still get 196 a week aswell??i think i may be eligible as i have been out of work for a year and am hoping to go back to college and do a masters

ICN

greener44 wrote: »

Hi i was just wondering does the BTEA pay your college fee's and do you still get 196 a week aswell??i think i may be eligible as i have been out of work for a year and am hoping to go back to college and do a masters

afaik Mate - the local grant that you get from your Council pays for the fees & the BTEA is seperate. The BTEA = the same as the JB & JA etc.. but just called a different name, with no change whatsoever really to yourself.

However, theres been a few changes with the Grant Vs. BTEA over the last while. Up to now, you've been able to get both.

They have changed it recently a bit - (I believe, as I was not eligible for a grant myself..) - so either way, check that out with your local Co.Council & they'll let you know what's what.

I think that the changes meant that you could not get both payments @ the same time.. but in regards to the Fees, I am not 100% enough to give a definite answer

Best of luck!

leah24

Hey I have applied for nursing next year..its a four year course...I am currently working part time and am also receiving one parent family payment. I was going to just get my grant and stay on my opf!!is this not ok?do i have to apply for btea!!I dont want to! im sick of all the forms.....form after form it just drives me insane and not to mention all the copies you need of every document(sorry i dont have a copy of grandmothers dogs birth cert)!!!too much of a headache....i dont want to be doing anything I shouldn't be though so I dont know what to do????help???????