What Now?

KadMunky

Hi all,

Just Kadmunky here, trying to open up a discussion on the current state of affairs in construction at the mo and how it affects us Architectural Technicians and Technologists.

My back ground is I have graduated from WIT Architectural Technology (year 4) last June and since September I have been out of work. I have sat back and watched all the drama unfold over the past year and reviewed my options. Sadly all have proven unfeasible for some reason or another.

For example a masters doesn't suit for reasons of cost (and I'm not sure if I want to pursue further education in an industry that has been useless to me so far), Oz and abroad is out of the question as I have kept in close contact with friends abroad who tell me they are struggling and that I should stay in Ireland. I have looked at the BER scheme and have concluded that it is the greatest money making racket ever by the SEI and training providers. My options are very low right now and the construction industry is realistically not going to improve for years.

Also I am pissed off by the current legal situation where technologist cannot sign off on construction and that we are really just glorified cad monkeys as opposed to construction engineers (much prefer this title).

I want to start a discussion where other people in situations similar to mine or impending, where we will talk about the current situation and our choices for the future. What is your current situation and what options have you looked at? Did you transfer to another profession that uses the same skill set? What can we do about this? I want to hear all yer stories. There is so much more I want to write and vent my frustration on, but for now I'm happy just to open this thread. Thanks for taking the time to read it and am looking forward to hearing from you.

pseudo-tech

KadMunky wrote: »

Also I am pissed off by the current legal situation where technologist cannot sign off on construction and that we are really just glorified cad monkeys as opposed to construction engineers (much prefer this title).

Kadmunky, that is not the case. To date only one bank has changed its position (AIB), generally not allowing Technician's to sign off on projects. However, they will accept your certificate if you a member of the CIAT!

Don't give up yet!

sydthebeat

hi kadmunky,

good idea for a thread.... a lot of people are in the same boat as you.

i would ask that you keep the thread to debating issues and not venting frustrations....

My own situation is that i have been on a 3 day week since mid feb. back then i didnt expect to be in employment in june, but works is still coming in in drips and drabs. We certainly are not making any money, just barely keeping open. We are doing som eextensions, some one offs, some signing offs, some redesign, some BERs, some specification prep etc.
Trying to educate clients and builders are to the new regs is important.
Its actually only this year that clients are coming back more and more to get working drawings done, as they understand that the old ad hoc way of building a house is madness compared to teh financial burden its putting on people.

I graduated from bolton st in 1999 and have been in full time employment since. Obviously this is the worst ive ever seen the economic situation.

As regards what to do, well, what i would advise is to try to keep up with as much new regs and guidelines as possible. The BER scheme was never intended to exist as a profession on its own (paula rice's words!) so that is definitely a no-go area if looking for enmployment. However, knowing how to use and manipulate DEAP is very important. Building reg compliance can now only be shown through DEAP but there are many many many certifiers out there who havent a clue that it even exists. You can either pay for a formal training course in DEAP, or download it and the manual for free from sei... play around with it and get good at it... read the manual cover to cover as there are many strange methodologies and conventions...
Sustainable building and zero energy building is coming down teh track fast so if you can get ahead of your competitors that is vital. Learn as much as you can about alternative construction techniques... external insulation, poroton blocks, sips, timber frames, icf etc. Get your hands on the PHPP software and learn how to use it..... that will quickly overhall DEAP as the proper software to use when desiging low energy builds.

regards the certification of work, i joined the CIAT this year because, as the company i work for is not riai registered, AIB bank were beginning to refuse our signing off work... they accept ciat members....
Thus i am beginning to see the value of having a representative body behind my profession.... its a pity ATI (or IATGN) seems to have disappeared... its at time like these that a voice for technicians i smost required. The lack of communication from them is deafening!!!

sinnerboy

I qualified in 85 . All bar 3 or 4 of my classmates traveled together literally on the same boat to England that year . We were snapped up within days in that then booming economy . Things are bad there now but I would say to give it a shot . London is a fantastic city - go there with an open mind and see what you find . The sheer size and scale of the place means you will find something if you persist . You have an incredible asset - you are young and , i assume , free of the obligations of the middle aged .

I spent some time in Oz - 90-91 . Construction was on it's knees there then . I spent some quite happy weeks working in a drive through off licence ( yes - I had never heard of such a thing before either ! ) . I eventually blagged my way into a curtain walling sub contractors estimating dept . After a couple of months a site manager post became available - it fell to me . Crash course ( pun intended ) driving lessons + company car followed .

You might approach product suppliers / manufactures to seek opportunities in their technical departments for example .

All sectors are suffering - so you may prosper no better by looking to any other . Your skills will be in demand one day - hopefully sooner rather than later . So don't abandon your training .

Don't despair .

Retro-Fit

The only answer is retraining, but it looks like the colleges are circulating the wagons due to the lack of funding. I know the Dublin School of Architecture won't now be adding any courses due to budget constraints and the move to grangegorman. Graduate Technicians are now as obsolete as the old incandescent light bulb, no need now for churning out huge reams of documentation. The 5 architecture schools are disgorging graduates like confetti. why employ a techie when you can get enthusiastic architecture grad to work for free.

Technicians have some basic skills to apply to building physics. The options for training are CAT in wales or TU Delft in Holland, however there is a rumour that TIPP institute might be providing a course in building science and passive house standards. Send an email to the institute to express your interest and encourage them to get the course up and running.

Disco Bandit

im a grad from this time last year mostly unemployed since sept...

150+ (guesstimate) new grads this week from the various courses to compete against =( not that it bothers me much, just sad to see more and more of us sitting around...

sinnerboy wrote: »

Things are bad there now but I would say to give it a shot . London is a fantastic city - go there with an open mind and see what you find . The sheer size and scale of the place means you will find something if you persist . You have an incredible asset - you are young and , i assume , free of the obligations of the middle aged .

youve just given me the london bug, was all set to go in november and circumstances didnt let me go and i kind of forgot about it, got a bit of pi and got set up as self employed, seein as i dont qualify for dole i may as well give it a bash, but now i might look at london again, gettin fcek all work atm.

off too ryanair to have a look, just better remember to take a leak before i get on their plane now

sinnerboy

Retro-Fit wrote: »

Graduate Technicians are now as obsolete as the old incandescent light bulb,

I heard something similar when I entered College '82. Computers were going to make us obsolete then ....

Retro-Fit wrote: »

no need now for churning out huge reams of documentation.

This time will pass ....

Retro-Fit wrote: »

The 5 architecture schools are disgorging graduates like confetti. why employ a techie when you can get enthusiastic architecture grad to work for free.

Because you can't get a Punto to do what a Merc can - that's why

Retro-Fit wrote: »

Technicians have some basic skills to apply to building physics.

Who , mainly , fields queries on these sites ? As a group I mean .

This is my 3rd recession. They all pass . No training is ever wasted - so , back to the OP - I say don't lose heart . Things WILL turn around

topcatcbr

sinnerboy wrote: »

I heard something similar when I entered College '82. Computers were going to make us obsolete then ....



This time will pass ....



Because you can't get a Punto to do what a Merc can - that's why



Who , mainly , fields queries on these sites ? As a group I mean .

This is my 3rd recession. They all pass . No training is ever wasted - so , back to the OP - I say don't lose heart . Things WILL turn around

Well said.

Retro-Fit

My point is, don't try and sit out the recession (which is now a depression) do something proactive. We had an architectural infrastructure which could cater for the UK construction industry. Impressive but unsustainable. That will never return. I don't think that it is best to tell graduates 'it'll bounce back', better to let them have a cold dose of reality. 1000 commencement notices in the first 4 months, when will that get back to 30,000?

sinnerboy

We don't need to return to a situation where 1 in 8 of our workforce came from outside the country . In our practice 3 years back the non Irish out numbered the Irish .

No , I am not getting all Irish-version-of-BNP . I wan't Ireland to remain open and free to all .

I insist - the economy will recover . To an even keel . This time will pass .

Retro-Fit

What will the recovered economy look like, what skills will it need, will graduate technicians have a role in the recovered economy. What role will that be? Architectural Technologists are highly represented in ultra low energy building design, that should be built on for graduates who have precious few opportunities anywhere but can have a great future, if the right course is put in place. Well its a better option than sitting on the couch watching judge judy or emigrating on spec.

archtech

I came out of college in 1993 with a cert and spent 9 month looking for a job. I eventaully got one, here where I still am over 15 years later, after sending loads of cvs, often to the same practices every few months. Things weren't great back then.... it was mainly extensions I worked on with 1 section 23 job. I went back to collage in Sept 94 to do my diploma and worked here on saturdays and sundays. there wasn't work at that time for a full time technician in the office . Things did change and now have gone the full circle.... I think we are over the worse of it now, people are beginning to realise that its up to themselves to make things happen.
Government knowns there's value out there, I've heard of a small number of project that were put on hold have been given the go ahead, with smaller budgets, but the projects will be done within that budget.People who in the past would have traded up their house are now extending. Some developers are looking to the future, many know how long and difficult it takes to get planning and know now is the time to get the planning not when there's a demand. I don't expect that we will be turning out 2 or 3 100+ housing schemes a year in the future, maybe a scheme of 20 or 30.

Yes there are and will be less people within the industry in the future as a whole, however that's not a bad thing, unfortunately there were some people whom really weren't suited to the profession it will be the survival of the fittest.

The coming years are going to bring new challenges,(they are here as it is) carbon neutral design, passive house design etc along with changes in technology.5/10 years ago the idea of a heat recovery unit in a house would be laughed at, now its not so mad. BIM is coming down the line. it has huge potential, yet many in industry don't have the time to learn and develop the skills to use it.... definitely an opening for graduates of the future.

The third level institutes need to look at their courses and train their graduates to meet the challenges of industry and not what they would like their graduates to learn. When you get graduates who couldn't tell you the size of a standard concrete block it leave you wonder.

For this year and last years graduates, the only chance you have of getting a job is to make yourself known to potential employers and people within the industry.Most jobs are never advertised. Join a professional body, it demonstrates that you are interested in the profession, go to CPD events etc and talk to others, it will help open doors. Remember Things will only happen it you try and make them happen yourself.

pseudo-tech

archtech wrote: »

I came out of college in 1993 with a cert and spent 9 month looking for a job. I eventaully got one, here where I still am over 15 years later, after sending loads of cvs, often to the same practices every few months. Things weren't great back then.... it was mainly extensions I worked on with 1 section 23 job. I went back to collage in Sept 94 to do my diploma and worked here on saturdays and sundays. there wasn't work at that time for a full time technician in the office . Things did change and now have gone the full circle.... I think we are over the worse of it now, people are beginning to realise that its up to themselves to make things happen.
Government knowns there's value out there, I've heard of a small number of project that were put on hold have been given the go ahead, with smaller budgets, but the projects will be done within that budget.People who in the past would have traded up their house are now extending. Some developers are looking to the future, many know how long and difficult it takes to get planning and know now is the time to get the planning not when there's a demand. I don't expect that we will be turning out 2 or 3 100+ housing schemes a year in the future, maybe a scheme of 20 or 30.

Yes there are and will be less people within the industry in the future as a whole, however that's not a bad thing, unfortunately there were some people whom really weren't suited to the profession it will be the survival of the fittest.

The coming years are going to bring new challenges,(they are here as it is) carbon neutral design, passive house design etc along with changes in technology.5/10 years ago the idea of a heat recovery unit in a house would be laughed at, now its not so mad. BIM is coming down the line. it has huge potential, yet many in industry don't have the time to learn and develop the skills to use it.... definitely an opening for graduates of the future.

The third level institutes need to look at their courses and train their graduates to meet the challenges of industry and not what they would like their graduates to learn. When you get graduates who couldn't tell you the size of a standard concrete block it leave you wonder.

For this year and last years graduates, the only chance you have of getting a job is to make yourself known to potential employers and people within the industry.Most jobs are never advertised. Join a professional body, it demonstrates that you are interested in the profession, go to CPD events etc and talk to others, it will help open doors. Remember Things will only happen it you try and make them happen yourself.

I have to agree with archtech. I graduated at a similar time and ended up working in a DIY store for a year. I applied for a job a year later which 20 people went for. Luckily for me i got it and have not looked back since. I also have to agree that there are a number of incompetent people in our industry and if the recession flush them out it will do the industry no harm. However, i do feel for the graduates that are currently leaving college as they have no control over what has happened to the industry!

sinnerboy

Retro-Fit wrote: »

Well its a better option than sitting on the couch watching judge judy or emigrating on spec.

suggestions for alternatives - cost free or negligible

1. Download the DEAP software and manual - survey your own home and assess it . You will aquire skills necessary to demonstrate compliance of house designs with b regs ( SEI BER assesor - that's another matter altogether

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/DEAP/DEAP_2008/

2. Download Buildesk U* . Build up a library of specifications to check u values and condensation risk assessments. It has a link to BR 443 2006 - the convention for measuring u- values - get to know it inside out

http://www.builddesk.co.uk/our+software/builddesk+u

3. Download and get to learn how to use Therm . Assess linear thermal transmission rates through detailed junctions

http://windows.lbl.gov/software/therm/therm.html

4. Ask an intelligent membrane supplier if they will admit you on their 1 day training course to install air tight membranes and tapes . One does a course in Meath ( Intello * ) - another in Laois ( Siga* ) * Mods in this context I hope trade names are ok

5. If you are close to Dublin attend these monthly meetings ( scroll down to bottom )

http://www.easca.ie/

6. Anything positive to add to this list RF ? Or the thread ?

.

jozi

sinnerboy wrote: »

suggestions for alternatives - cost free or negligible

1. Download the DEAP software and manual - survey your own home and assess it . You will aquire skills necessary to demonstrate compliance of house designs with b regs ( SEI BER assesor - that's another matter altogether

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/DEAP/DEAP_2008/

2. Download U Valuate . Build up a library of specifications to check u values and condensation risk assessments. It has a link to BR 443 2006 - the convention for measuring u- values - get to know it inside out

http://www.builddesk.co.uk/our+software/builddesk+u

3. Download and get to learn how to use Therm . Assess liners thermal transmission rates through detailed junctions

http://windows.lbl.gov/software/therm/therm.html

:eek: things to keep me busy!

My advice would be as mentioned above, make contacts talk to people etc. I ended up getting a month full time and a month part time work this way and have since done the odd day here and there.

It's still very de-moralising being unemployed and not having much, if any, chance for work at all.

Take in the above suggestion and information and work from there.

Just from a sustainable POV where do you start education wise? There isn't much is there? Trinity was running a series of lectures/discussions on sustainability with speakers from GAIA Architects and other notable people. I've missed a few but the ones I attended were quite good.

sydthebeat

great post SB...

most technicians should know how to use these software packages and understand the theory behind it...

one point, its builddesk, not uvaluate (although thats another useful software)

sinnerboy

Thanks Syd - I edited my earlier post to read "Buildesk U"

U Valuate is indeed another good one

http://www.xtratherm.com/software/software.php

Retro-Fit

That more like it.

PM me if anyone needs info on Passive house or an excel worksheet to play around with.

Also register on the following website for a comprehensive 4 day course in low energy design and construction with a study trip to Germany. Not sure when the next one is being run but you are well advised to get in early.

http://irland.ahk.de/index.php?id=829&L=15

also

Sustainable Energy Ireland is presenting a two-day PHPP workshop on Thursday and
Friday 18-19 June 2009 at the Crowne Plaza Hotel,Northwood, Santry,Dublin 9.
This follows the success of the initial Passive House Planning Package (PHPP) workshop earlier
this year and is in response to demand fromprofessionals involved in the design of passive
houses here in Ireland.
The PHPP is a clearly structured design software package developed by the world renowned Passivhaus Institute that can be used by architects and designers etc. Based on a series of extensive and interlinked
data sheets the PHPP includes tools for:
· calculating the U-values of components with high thermal insulation
· calculating energy balances
· designing comfort ventilation
· calculating the heat load (including Irish climatic data)
· summer comfort calculations
· and many other useful tools for reliable design of passive houses
Careful design and modelling are essential to achieve the Passive House standard. Participants at this workshop will be able to gain an in-depth understanding of the key parameters affecting the energy performance, thermal comfort and air quality in a passive house. It will be of particular interest to architect s, engineers and consultants involved in the design and specification of buildings andtheir services.
The workshop is very much a practical session.Wolfgang Hasper from the Passivhaus Institut will be assisted by Tomas O'Leary (MosArt) in delivering a two-day insight into the Passive House concept including a comprehensive and interactive demonstration of the PHPP 2007.

During the two-days the workshop will cover the following topics:
· Definition of a Passive House
· Basics construction physics
· Introduce a sample PH project
· Windows in the Passive House
· Calculation of U-values in the PHPP
· Input of areas and windows
· Input of shading data
· Ventilation in Passive House
· Heating systems in Passive House
· Completion of the example projects
Optional evening site visit to a PH office development in Dublin on Thursday evening

PLEASE NOTE: Places at the workshop are strictly limited to 40 participants, allocated on a first come basis.
For further details please contact Paul Dykes (SEI) pauld@reio.ie