We need to legalise drugs!

TheInquisitor

The war on drugs has well and truely been lost. America has been fighting drugs for decades longer than us and has not stopped its encroachment on society and it never will.

I think we need to legalise drugs for the following reasons

1) Bring in tax to the economy which is much needed
2) Free up garda resources to deal with other crime
3) Standardise the drugs so that they are much safer than normal to consume, as in since they won't have all the extra crap(rat poison, washing powder etc) in them they will be safer to consume
4) Get rid of the drug dealers that are such a blight on our society. I would antipate a massive fall in murders etc

I think this could work in a pharmacist kind of way. The goverment supplies the pharmacies with the drugs( which they grow in protected green houses) and then the pharmacies can sell them on. The governement brings in hundreds of millions in taxes and creates thousands of jobs, also possibly increasing tourism like amsterdam.

Anyone have any ideas on if this could work?

Dozen Wicked Words

Do you mean just legalising Cannabis or all drugs?

The idea is interesting but doubtful legalisation would work. Fags are legal but people still smuggle them. Petrol is readily available but smugglers go North to get cheaper fuel, people can readily buy designer handbags,clothes etc but many would prefer cheap knock offs. Video games are not legal but piracy is rife.

The end product of legalisation would mean more people would end up using, and whatever supposed savings you made on Garda time, or money made on tax would be used up on healthcare costs.

grenache

TheInquisitor wrote: »

The war on drugs has well and truely been lost. America has been fighting drugs for decades longer than us and has not stopped its encroachment on society and it never will.

I think we need to legalise drugs for the following reasons

1) Bring in tax to the economy which is much needed
2) Free up garda resources to deal with other crime
3) Standardise the drugs so that they are much safer than normal to consume, as in since they won't have all the extra crap(rat poison, washing powder etc) in them they will be safer to consume
4) Get rid of the drug dealers that are such a blight on our society. I would antipate a massive fall in murders etc

I think this could work in a pharmacist kind of way. The goverment supplies the pharmacies with the drugs( which they grow in protected green houses) and then the pharmacies can sell them on. The governement brings in hundreds of millions in taxes and creates thousands of jobs, also possibly increasing tourism like amsterdam.

Anyone have any ideas on if this could work?

And have even more people killed on our roads through stoners driving while under the influence of drugs? Not to mention the heavy toll it would take on our health system, trying to fix those people with psychological and physical problems due to drug abuse.

However bad you think it is now, i guarantee you it would be much worse if drugs were legalised. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

peanuthead

I dont really know where I stand on this to be honest.

It is true that so much money is wasted on the war against drugs, which is well and truly lost, but is legalisation really the answer?

How long before we have widespread gun culture and ghettos along with it?

And I also don't think that legalising drugs will prevent the illegal smuggling of them.

peanuthead

grenache wrote: »

Not to mention the heavy toll it would take on our health system, trying to fix those people with psychological and physical problems due to drug abuse.

Well to be honest, we're doing that already, the difference with legalising drugs is that at least they will be contributing to their care with the taxes paid on the drugs. At the moment, we're paying the Gardai to try catch these feckers, and paying for their medical costs too.

glennb

i have replyed to a thread similar to this and thaught it was a good idea

but thinking about it again it might not be such a good 1.would tax of the drugs make them more dear than what ever the prices of them are now maby whatever the gov do to make them weaker will make the junkies think i will take more and more untill they od. then there would be the thing of where will sell them if it is in a chemist would there not be atempted roberies at them as there would not be much ways to tell if what was stolen was theirs or not and having to go into a chemist and ask for the equvilant of herion and someone seeing you it would probly be embarresing amd how many people would want to live next to a 30 year old crack head in fareness

Fallen Buckshot

I think what the op is saying is that people are going to do what they want regardless so why not make money off of it and maybe even boost the economy

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

grenache

peanuthead wrote: »

Well to be honest, we're doing that already, the difference with legalising drugs is that at least they will be contributing to their care with the taxes paid on the drugs. At the moment, we're paying the Gardai to try catch these feckers, and paying for their medical costs too.

Yes we are, but with legalisation, you would see a huge increase in the numbers of irish adults using recreational drugs, thus the health system will be under a much greater burden than it is now. I think its like 10% of irish adults are regular drug users, well i think that figure would shoot up to 30 or 40% if they were legalised. Drugs, even in moderation, are bad for people's health, and i think thats the bottom line here.

raindog.promo

grenache wrote: »

have even more people killed on our roads through stoners driving while under the influence of drugs?

Can you back up this statement with figures and sources?

grenache wrote: »

you would see a huge increase in the numbers of irish adults using recreational drugs...............

I think its like 10% of irish adults are regular drug users,

cough, cough...ALCOHOL cough, cough......

Joey the lips

Hi Inq

I have spent a lot of time researching this topic. I have actually campagned with 2 political parties in the past turning up at there ard fheis trying to see the results of the motion. No I am not a double party standard. I worked with the youth service

However I started to research the subject further and looked abroad to places like holland etc!

I came to the conclusion and the "Economist" Section will confirm this, that legalising drugs will do nothing for them other than make them more freely available. Ciggerates is a classic example! Further more as cannibas relies on the use of tabacco I believe legalising it will only increase the level of smokers in the country.

I do not believe in the argument that the tax on the product can be put into the healthservice. This is a dream to believe this will happen! I do not believe the arguement that if the drug is legalised its easier to control.; This is pure bullsh1t and there is no proof behind it.

Lastly.... We live in a society where a number of people believe that all drugs should be legalised! Is it any coincidence that these people come from working class areas which thend to make the lowest contrabution to society and will no doubt have the lowest turn out in the elections yesterday

So you see this will never happen in my opinion.

But I am a fair person. I have the feeling that I am going to get a few responses to this!

If one person can convince me the merrits of legalising drugs and provide links to prove there point. Guess what I will embrace the notion and even argue it on your behalf.....

Are you up to the challenge. Or is your comment going to be simple.... in all ways

All this is said with the greatest respect towards all ye posters.

peanuthead

raindog.promo wrote: »

Can you back up this statement with figures and sources?




cough, cough...ALCOHOL cough, cough......

There is a tax on alcohol though. They are in some sense of the word paying for their care, well, at least contributing to it anyway.

NilByMouth

I notice a few of the posters have brought up points such as:

1)there would be an increase in drug use if it was legalised

2)an increase in cigarettes sales due to the fact that they are used in joints

3)an increase in road fatalities due to 'stoners' driving about.

for point 1,with hash being legalised in holland the %of heroine addicts is no better/worse than in countries that enforce criminalisation of drugs.

the fact is if a person is into doing drugs(of any kind)they will do them!Doesnt matter to them whether it is illegal or not.So if they were legalised I doubt you would see an increase in users,an increase in road deaths or even more pressure on our health service because they are already using the drugs,buying cigs gor there joints,turning up in hospital with chest infectionss and driving around stoned!

I think they should be legalised just from a hjealth and safety point of view.It would also take away a lot of power from the drug gangs.Some people have death wishes and will get themselves addicted to heroine or crack anyway.Better the state gets the money than drug dealers.

Joey the lips

NilByMouth wrote: »

I notice a few of the posters have brought up points such as:

1)there would be an increase in drug use if it was legalised

2)an increase in cigarettes sales due to the fact that they are used in joints

3)an increase in road fatalities due to 'stoners' driving about.

for point 1,with hash being legalised in holland the %of heroine addicts is no better/worse than in countries that enforce criminalisation of drugs.

the fact is if a person is into doing drugs(of any kind)they will do them!Doesnt matter to them whether it is illegal or not.So if they were legalised I doubt you would see an increase in users,an increase in road deaths or even more pressure on our health service because they are already using the drugs,buying cigs gor there joints,turning up in hospital with chest infectionss and driving around stoned!

I think they should be legalised just from a hjealth and safety point of view.It would also take away a lot of power from the drug gangs.Some people have death wishes and will get themselves addicted to heroine or crack anyway.Better the state gets the money than drug dealers.

As i said and you should have noticed. If you have no proof to back up your belief its not accurate. This is not the god thread. Proof is need I am sorry

Oh and the second point! If you can actually prove it I will eat my shorts.

Would you go away and get real! this is suppose to be a serious conversation not after hours!

raindog.promo

I doubt you would see an increase in users,an increase in road deaths or even more pressure on our health service because they are already using the drugs,buying cigs gor there joints,turning up in hospital with chest infectionss and driving around stoned!

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you can actually prove it I will eat my shorts.

How can you prove this without a country first legalising the drugs. Where could you get reliable data from.

Joey the lips

raindog.promo wrote: »

How can you prove this without a country first legalising the drugs. Where could you get reliable data from.

Well I will make it easier cause I dont want to seem arrogant which I promise I am not!

If you can prove the arguement for legalising drugs i will be very greatful. Cause I cant! and I tried, So I am of the opinion that it should never be legal, In fact if i had my way smoking would be illegal as well.

NilByMouth

Will try and route some proof for you Joey.Im well aware its not AH.What type of shorts you wearing:D

Do you honestly think that having drugs illegal stops anybody from doing them.What purpose does it serve having them illegal?

as it stands with them being illegal means that they are mixed with poison(they are even spraying grass with lead to increase its weight!!),fuels organised crime in a big way.

Having said that I dont think it will ever be completely legalised anywhere.But i think they should at least decrimilise(spelling?)possion of drugs for personal use.No point giving a recreational drug user a record.Thats my opinion and im entitled to it.

turgon

Good article here in the economist:
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13237193&source=most_recommended

I agree with this for two reasons:
1) here are obviously tax benefits to be had, and health benefits with minimum standards.
2) If someone wants to smoke cannabis, and is not effecting anyone, thats their own business. People like Joey should have no right to tell people what they can and cannot do when it clearly has no impact on others.

Anyway, most people are only against because they think drugs are immoral. All this stuff about health and driving is just an excuse.

Joey the lips

NilByMouth wrote: »

Will try and route some proof for you Joey.Im well aware its not AH.What type of shorts you wearing:D

Do you honestly think that having drugs illegal stops anybody from doing them.What purpose does it serve having them illegal?

as it stands with them being illegal means that they are mixed with poison(they are even spraying grass with lead to increase its weight!!),fuels organised crime in a big way.

Having said that I dont think it will ever be completely legalised anywhere.But i think they should at least decrimilise(spelling?)possion of drugs for personal use.No point giving a recreational drug user a record.Thats my opinion and im entitled to it.

Do you honestly think that having them legal wont increase the useage. The arguement is endless but the conclusion is the same. No to legalisation! If your worried about poision dont take them. Its the same with poitin and moonshine see the arguement is flawed. Sorry

anonymous_joe

Criminalise a market and it will be run by criminals.

If you took the drugs market from the criminals you could standardise (and weaken) the products on offer, safer for all, profit, and well, what else do you want?

You have to assume people will take drugs. That's an assumption few politicians would be willing to publically agree with. Look at America, the war on drugs is a total fcuk up, certain cities are riven with drugs and drug gangs, and yet they still persist in trotting out the old doctrines.

Joey the lips

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Criminalise a market and it will be run by criminals.

If you took the drugs market from the criminals you could standardise (and weaken) the products on offer, safer for all, profit, and well, what else do you want?

You have to assume people will take drugs. That's an assumption few politicians would be willing to publically agree with. Look at America, the war on drugs is a total fcuk up, certain cities are riven with drugs and drug gangs, and yet they still persist in trotting out the old doctrines.

Thats not an arguement to legalise drugs in fairness. This is just a rant! I am off to read turgons article who so far is the only one to provide actual proof.

Think of this.... If you find it hard to convince me, someone who actually is open minded on the subject, how are you going to convince someone who is closed!

youcrazyjesus!

Joey the lips wrote: »

Do you honestly think that having them legal wont increase the useage.

They're already freely available.

The arguement is endless but the conclusion is the same. No to legalisation! If your worried about poision dont take them. Its the same with poitin and moonshine see the arguement is flawed. Sorry

If alcohol was made illegal tomorrow would you give up drinking? Who would import and sell alcohol?

This man would not have died had he bought a commercial product in a shop.

youcrazyjesus!

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats not an arguement to legalise drugs in fairness. This is just a rant! I am off to read turgons article who so far is the only one to provide actual proof.

Think of this.... If you find it hard to convince me, someone who actually is open minded on the subject, how are you going to convince someone who is closed!

Criminalisation has been a total and complete failure swallowing up billions and billions in resources and losing billions and billions more in taxes. Recreational drugs could fund a cure for cancer and send men to Mars. I'm not joking. The money legalisation would generate for education, health and research is astronomical. Right now the only people who profit from drugs are criminal gangs who we spend billions worldwide chasing and imprisoning, banks and bankers, questionable governments in Burma, terrorist gangs & scum like the IRA who took money off drug dealers and allowed them continue to operate under the cover of Concerned Provos Against Drugs.

Sqaull20

They could do an Amsterdam, but the knackers would probably ruin it for everyone!!!.Galway for example would be a good spot to have the coffee shops :pac: Good money earner :P

TheInquisitor

dooferoaks wrote: »

Do you mean just legalising Cannabis or all drugs?

The idea is interesting but doubtful legalisation would work. Fags are legal but people still smuggle them. Petrol is readily available but smugglers go North to get cheaper fuel, people can readily buy designer handbags,clothes etc but many would prefer cheap knock offs. Video games are not legal but piracy is rife.

The end product of legalisation would mean more people would end up using, and whatever supposed savings you made on Garda time, or money made on tax would be used up on healthcare costs.

I mean legalising all drugs. Get rid of most of the drug dealers. Standardise all the drugs to make them safer to consume, even less addictive. The people that have to go to hospital for drug use etc would be offset by the fact the drugs are safer so less people would end up going to hospital, also thousands less criminals in jail, safer streets because of freed up garda resources and tax that can offset any increase in health bills.

glennb wrote: »

i have replyed to a thread similar to this and thaught it was a good idea

but thinking about it again it might not be such a good 1.would tax of the drugs make them more dear than what ever the prices of them are now maby whatever the gov do to make them weaker will make the junkies think i will take more and more untill they od. then there would be the thing of where will sell them if it is in a chemist would there not be atempted roberies at them as there would not be much ways to tell if what was stolen was theirs or not and having to go into a chemist and ask for the equvilant of herion and someone seeing you it would probly be embarresing amd how many people would want to live next to a 30 year old crack head in fareness

The point would be trying to limit peoples usage. People can only take class A drugs once a week or something and have it related to their PPS number or seomthing. Yes it would be open to abuse but isn't everything. The price of the drugs could be sold to continually undercut the drug dealers until they are out of business then increased so that they are expensive enough not to be overused but also cheap enough so drug dealers cannot come back.

Fallen Buckshot wrote: »

I think what the op is saying is that people are going to do what they want regardless so why not make money off of it and maybe even boost the economy

Thats exactly it. People will ALWAYS be taking drugs. I for one am not a drug taker and hate people that even smoke cigs. I only smoked hash once in my life back in my younger years. But i think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages

Joey the lips wrote: »

Well I will make it easier cause I dont want to seem arrogant which I promise I am not!

If you can prove the arguement for legalising drugs i will be very greatful. Cause I cant! and I tried, So I am of the opinion that it should never be legal, In fact if i had my way smoking would be illegal as well.

Sure alcohol should be illegal then aswell. Look how well that worked in the USA during prohibition. How long did it take for huge crime syndicates to be set up to import drink. Did people stop drinking. NO. What happened was Al Capone and other crime lords made a fortune, the state lost out on taxes and police resources and there were thousands of murders related to it. If you banned cigarettes now the same would happen. Its good enough that they are banned from all public premises. I'm happy with that.

Pygmalion

People tend to assume that everyone will get stoned and then start driving around in populated areas. Any real reason for this assumption?

NilByMouth

Joey your missing the point.You can class people into 2 seperate groups.Those who do drugs and does that dont.

The ones that do will do it regardless of whether its illegal or not.End of story.I dont think anybody out there is not doing drugs because its illegal so therefore there wont be an increase if it was made legal.

anyways Im too stoned for this.Might go for a drive later too while im at it(just down to the shops to buy fags for my joints mind you):pac:

Zuiderzee

I think the current system of prohibition has failed, if anything it makes the situation worse.

By making something such as cannibis illegal, we have given control of the market to criminals.
This gives them a large source of income, outside any fiscal or market control by the state.
They decide the type, potency, price, hours of availability, age of consumption etc - everything the state uses to control alcohol.

I really think that having banned cannabis and placing it in the control of criminals, this is what really makes it a gateway drug

- dealers will sell opiates and other hard drugs at a much higher profit margin for less volume, easier to smuggle, less risk.

Look at it this way - If a business person is making a living from cannabis, and we create much harsher controls or laws for things like opiates, do you think they will risk their livlihood! How many pubs sell drugs from under the counter?

I read recently that by 16 more UK and Irish kids have tried cannibis than their Dutch counterparts.
The vast majority of Dutch friends of mine dont smoke pot. A lot of Irish people I know do.

The health risks of cannibis are apparant, sand can be compared to alcohol and ciggarettes, we tax fags and high potency alcohol like extra strength largers at a higher degree, and limit volume/proof in spirits etc.
Having a legal framework allows for control of strength and quality.

As for the driving arguement, lets ban alcohol then - determining if someone is under the influence is straightforward, so just apply drink driving regulations for drugs.

The main thing for me in decriminalisation/legalisation is that it will give the state more control over who works in the market.
If you have convicted criminals, known to sell hard drugs/be involved in gangland crime, then they can be removed from the equation.

The only proviso I would make is the location and number of outlets.
Rotterdam, Utrecht, Delft, Den Hague, Middleburg etc are all better models than the Amsterdam ne, in which drug tourism can be a problem.
But there are moves under the mayor to clean this issue up.

Pot is just an example, where does one draw the line? I am not sure.
We ban Poiteen, but allow VSOP brandy and Czech Absenth.

The way the Dutch look at it is hard drug users are victims as opposed to criminals.
With centres for hard drug use they are in a controlled environment, and treatment programs go hand in hand with that.

For me at the moment the jury is still out on opiates, chemical drugs and cocaine products - but it is certain the single biggest illegal drug used is cannabis, so deal with that one first.

Oh - BTW - I dont do drugs, just in case anyone is interested

meglome

I'll start by saying I don't do drugs.

But like many others have said it's quite obvious the 'war' on drugs is long lost. I literally see people every single day off their faces and/or taking drugs. Many times they are doing drug deals in the street. I've seen people injecting in dark corners in numerous parts of their bodies. I've seen numerous crimes that I would bet good money on were drug related. All in our capital city. So anyone who thinks the current system is working is mental.

All that said I doubt unrestricted drug selling by the state would be a positive thing. I do think though we should allow addicts to register and we should give them drugs because at least it would stop most of the robbing that goes on to feed their habits. By giving them purer drugs they would be less likely to die and need medical treatment.

Joey the lips

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055584877


If you lived beside this I think you would have a different view on drug legalisation!

SeanW

Well, I personally have no interest in smoking cannibis and after some recent lifestyle changes, the idea appeals to me even less. However, I approach this from a case of "live and let live." Since pot smoking requires a 50/50 mix of tobacco and cannibis, I think you'd have to be a pretty big moron to do it. But it's none of my business if you do.

@JoeyTheLips: if you want to see what the drugs laws have done to our society, just take a look at the Prohibition of Alcohol in the U.S. in the 1920s and 1930s. It mirrors almost down to the last detail, what the drugs laws are doing today.
And I mean literally everything: from the poor quality and hazardous products, to the massive underworld created by the Prohibition (Prohibition was the bread and butter of the Al Capone gang, which made most of its blood money smuggling bootleg alcohol) to the secondary effect on society of all that crime.

Even if you wanted to continue fighting the "war on drugs" it would be easier if you took cannibis, out of the "gateway drug" equation by taking it out of the hands of the peddlers.

Now we've taxed the bejesus out of everyone to pay for this stupid and lost-cause drug war, pushing our economies to the brink and even now, Northern Mexico is on the brink of falling into a failed narco-state, all brought on by the black market handed to these gangs by the U.S. Legislature. Even sick people with conditions like MS, cannot get therapeutic (sp?) weed which a lot of sick people swear by.

I consider this immoral.

But no doubt the answers proposed will include more Statism, more regulation and lead to more problems :mad:

What annoys me a little about social conservatives with their determination to impose and maintain these kinds of laws against personal behaviour & choices like drugs and prostitution, is that in calling for these things to remain banned, they're saying not only is it their business to tell everyone else how to live their lives, they're also saying its MY business to do this as well since these laws are made as much on my behalf as a citizen as anyone else.