Ganley looking good in Early Tallies

PopeBuckfastXVI

molloyjh wrote: »

So you think the Irish electorate are capable of being led to vote a particular way then? Not giving us much credit are you? But given that how can you be sure that this isn't what happened last year?

It's so rare that I'm given a beautiful new way of looking at an existing familiar idea.

Thank you!

asdasd

So you think the Irish electorate are capable of being led to vote a particular way then? Not giving us much credit are you? But given that how can you be sure that this isn't what happened last year?

Oh we'll get the correct decision eventually. Just keep asking.

BlitzKrieg

bug wrote: »

so if they officially say they misplaced 20K + votes (which i agree is unlikely), will you automatically think Ganley is sinister?

or would you think that the "bigger picture" is far more sinister?

Just wondering.

Honestly I dont know, I doubt something like that would happen, as even they found 20k misplaced votes they (I assume) have some way of confirming they are genuine so I wouldnt call any foul play over that.

Thats why when I first murmered this fear, I said I suspect I might be going too far.

asdasd

It's so rare that I'm given a beautiful new way of looking at an existing familiar idea.

The existing familiar idea ? What now?

Hey what happens if we vote incorrectly ten times? Is the eleventh time - when we No voters just give up - is that the real result?

Or is it a best of?

molloyjh

asdasd wrote: »

Oh we'll get the correct decision eventually. Just keep asking.

I have no idea how that was a response to what I said. Another example of the pissing and the wind!

PopeBuckfastXVI

asdasd wrote: »

The existing familiar idea ? What now?

The implication for the original 'no' vote that a 'yes' vote in a second referendum would be only possible with some sort of coercion.

I hadn't thought of it before.

Happy Monday

Scofflaw wrote: »

I hope their security is tight. I'm afraid I wouldn't put it past Ganley and co. to try to sneak 'votes' in overnight.

paranoidly,
Scofflaw

That's a disgraceful comment and deserves an immediate ban.
But those who make the rules here can break them at will.
Reality of course is that FF and FG members and ministers have been guilty of gross corruption in the past and present - Lowry, Lawlor, Haughey, Burke and so on.
But no mention of that.

Amused,
Happy Monday. :P

PopeBuckfastXVI

asdasd wrote: »

Hey what happens if we vote incorrectly ten times? Is the eleventh time - when we No voters just give up - is that the real result?

There's nothing unconstitutional with what you're proposing.

Politically suicidal, but not unconstitutional...

BlitzKrieg

how about the no to lisbon snide remarks go and start pumping up for tuesday, if the vote of no confidence succeeds and it ends up going to a general election, vote for a party that is no to lisbon into government. Problem solved, you wont be asked again to vote on the issue.


On a side note, if it does lead to a general election, will libertas try standing for that?

asdasd

I have no idea how that was a response to what I said. Another example of the pissing and the wind!

Really, it was a simple response.

As to whether votes are influenced or not, it seems that it is the YES voters who claim that despite the fact that every single political party, business leaders, treade union, and church told their sheep to vote YES, it was the NO voters who were influenced by a party which none of them belonged to.

Anyway, we've learned our leason. If we dont vote correctly we vote again until we vote correctly.

And again

And again.

in other news the UKIP is polling better than Labour in the UK.

i give the EU a decade. At best.

molloyjh

Happy Monday wrote: »

That's a disgraceful comment and deserves an immediate ban.
But those who make the rules here can break them at will.
Reality of course is that FF and FG members and ministers have been guilty of gross corruption in the past and present - Lowry, Lawlor, Haughey, Burke and so on.
But no mention of that.

Amused,
Happy Monday. :P

That's because that isn't what this thread is about. You want complaints about our current Government go to a thread about our current Government. There's plenty of those available too, most of which are none too complimentary about them.

Otherwise if all you can add to the discussion is some bizarre complaint about it actually being on topic you obviously have little to go on.

Scofflaw

Happy Monday wrote: »

That's a disgraceful comment and deserves an immediate ban.
But those who make the rules here can break them at will.
Reality of course is that FF and FG members and ministers have been guilty of gross corruption in the past and present - Lowry, Lawlor, Haughey, Burke and so on.
But no mention of that.

Let's say I'm giving Libertas credit for thinking outside the box (or boxes).

regards,
Scofflaw

asdasd

The implication for the original 'no' vote that a 'yes' vote in a second referendum would be only possible with some sort of coercion.

I hadn't thought of it before.

Um. What now?

Has libertas and the general NO vote population the power to keep asking the YES voters to vote until we get a NO?

Would we be getting a second referendum were the first vote YES?

The coercion is asking us until we do the will of the elites. Not really democracy.

PopeBuckfastXVI

asdasd wrote: »

i give the EU a decade. At best.

The EU will carry on, we and the British may not be in it. In which case I give Ireland a decade. At best.

markopantelic

lmao you remind me of ukiptroll on the europe debate forums, a lite version. why would ireland not be in it pope?

PopeBuckfastXVI

asdasd wrote: »

The coercion is asking us until we do the will of the elites. Not really democracy.

Why can't you keep saying know.

elites indeed, I was wondering with the No trolls showed up all of a sudden, around the same time Libertas knocked off for the night up in Castlebar...

Scofflaw

asdasd wrote: »

The existing familiar idea ? What now?

Hey what happens if we vote incorrectly ten times? Is the eleventh time - when we No voters just give up - is that the real result?

Or is it a best of?

Why would No voters get tired, though? It's not as if voting is particularly difficult. And why would No campaigners get tired faster than Yes campaigners? The pro-EU politicians have seats to lose, whereas by and large the anti-EU ones don't. Repeat referendums would cost the political parties votes - it's not a cost-free exercise.

cordially,
Scofflaw

molloyjh

asdasd wrote: »

Really, it was a simple response.

I know.

asdasd wrote: »

As to whether votes are influenced or not, it seems that it is the YES voters who claim that despite the fact that every single political party, business leaders, treade union, and church told their sheep to vote YES, it was the NO voters who were influenced by a party which none of them belonged to.

Anyway, we've learned our leason. If we dont vote correctly we vote again until we vote correctly.

And again

And again.

in other news the UKIP is polling better than Labour in the UK.

i give the EU a decade. At best.

I understand you point, but its paranoia is all. It would not be viable for a, 3rd or 4th referendum to take place. And all this talk about sheep etc is hollow and meaningless without some form of evidence to prove that your position is the "correct" one.

You seem to be of the opinion that the first answer was the "correct" one and show no interest in the possibility that maybe the Irish electorate were misled. We as a people, apparently, can do no wrong unless forced into a position where we don't bother voting. And even then our inaction is someone elses fault. Come off it.

cornbb

bug wrote: »

so if they officially say they misplaced 20K + votes (which i agree is unlikely), will you automatically think Ganley is sinister?

or would you think that the "bigger picture" is far more sinister?

Just wondering.

Since Declan Ganley has appeared on the political scene, his tactics have repeatedly overstepped an invisible line which every other Irish politician recognises - for all their faults, Irish politicians have a certain amount of respect for a basic level of truth, and for each other.

He runs political campaigns like hostile corporate takeovers. He has repeatedly used innuendo and bottom-feeding semi-truths to inject fear into the electorate, whether it has been fear of the Lisbon treaty or fear of respectable politicians like Marian Harkin. He is now surreptitiously suggesting that there is a corruption of the Irish electoral process, something which no other politician from any other party has done and something that no politician before him has questioned.

Surely if there were concerns about this well-tested system, multiple candidates from multiple parties would have raised concerns. By referring to "the bigger picture", you seem to be implying that every single other candidate, party, returning officer, vote counter and the media are all conspiring against Ganley. Now do you really think that this is likely? Or is it more likely that it is yet another instance of Ganley using underhanded, bullyboy tactics to raise a fuss?

In short, I place more trust in our ability to count ballot papers than I do in Declan Ganley.

bug

molloyjh wrote: »

So you think the Irish electorate are capable of being led to vote a particular way then? Not giving us much credit are you? But given that how can you be sure that this isn't what happened last year?

IMVHO the irish voted honestly on the referendum the last time, we didn't think we were in such a bad way economically. We thought we'd make our point and roll the dice on what happened next with Europe. Maybe a better deal? A treaty that stays as it is and looks like the one we voted on in the first place perhaps?

We voted on principle rather than pocket.

In the hard hitting economic climate, I think we will equate Lisbon (II) to a chance to get out of the economic hell hole we are currently in.(akin Nice for jobs)

If it was a referendum on selling your soul for the chance of getting jobs and being sorted out by people with a bit more forethought than saving developer mates from prison then we'd vote yes.:) And I wouldnt blame anyone for it.

FF have messed up so much, you would wonder if it was on purpose to get a yes vote to this referendum. I remember actually saying that to my brother at the time.

I personally completely resent the fact that I have to vote again.
On what differences? On what assurances?

Anyhow that's for another day, tomorrow we'll see if Ganley finds his votes in the end of a yellow bag or proves himself to be prone to paranoia.

If Eoin Ryan, loses out to a man who might just keep shouting "GAMMA!" "GAMMA" "GAMMA workers" in the EU parliament, leaving the rest of the parliament totally bemused as to what Ireland is really up to voting a complete lunatic into the parliament.
Or if indeed ol Mary Lou might actually get back in.

It's all to play for.
Fun though isn't it?

PopeBuckfastXVI

markopantelic wrote: »

lmao you remind me of ukiptroll on the europe debate forums, a lite version. why would ireland not be in it pope?

So you don't have an issue with the OP saying the EU will be gone within 10 years? That's completely likely?

But Ireland leaving the EU within 10 years is outrageous?

FWIW I don't think either situation is likely, but Ireland alone electing Eurosceptics or the British electing UKIP will have no long term affect other than on our and their position within the EU.

The EU will carry on whether we, the British or anyone else find the grass greener outside the fold...

Happy Monday

Scofflaw wrote: »

Why would No voters get tired, though? It's not as if voting is particularly difficult. And why would No campaigners get tired faster than Yes campaigners? The pro-EU politicians have seats to lose, whereas by and large the anti-EU ones don't. Repeat referendums would cost the political parties votes - it's not a cost-free exercise.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Why get so upset then with Declan Ganley's insistence on clear transparency in this voting process?

Amused,
Happy Monday

PopeBuckfastXVI

Happy Monday wrote: »

Why get so upset then with Declan Ganley's insistence on clear transparency in this voting process?

Amused,
Happy Monday

Are you implying there hasn't been?

cornbb

Marian Harkin claims her tallies have been spot-on compared with the first count and therefore claims Ganley's gap will grow even more from here.

Happy Monday

cornbb wrote: »

Irish politicians have a certain amount of respect for a basic level of truth, and for each other.

You're having a laugh!

K-9

Happy Monday wrote: »

Why get so upset then with Declan Ganley's insistence on clear transparency in this voting process?

Amused,
Happy Monday

lol

He now has to prove where transparency failed.

I wish you well Declan.

cornbb

Happy Monday wrote: »

You're having a laugh!

I know it sounds ridiculous, but its true - they won't tell outright lies to each other's faces, except for Ganley. This was obvious when I listened to Ganley debate with the other NW candidates. Everyone including the moderator was incredulous at the outright lies he came out with - every other candidate looked so honest by comparison.

Happy Monday

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Are you implying there hasn't been?

If we can have an interminable amount of elections to pass Lisbon over an interminable amount of time surely we review the way the votes have been counted in Castlebar in the morning to everyone's satisfaction.

Or should we only do this when the government's nose has been put out of joint?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Happy Monday wrote: »

If we can have an interminable amount of elections to pass Lisbon over an interminable amount of time surely we review the way the votes have been counted in Castlebar in the morning to everyone's satisfaction.

Or should we only do this when the government's nose has been put out of joint?

You seemed to be implying that transparency was lacking, not that a mistake was made.

I know transparency is le mot buzz du jour of Libertas, but come on, there's plenty more in the dictionary...

sceptre

Happy Monday wrote: »

That's a disgraceful comment and deserves an immediate ban.

People from all sides of the political spectrum have managed to "get away" with saying far worse about other people from other sides of the political spectrum in the past and doubtless in the future without sanction where those posts lie within the rules.

I believe we've had pages and pages (and pages and pages) of posts about the other forms of gross corruption in the past so a single post from a single member expressing an opinion that some careful vote-watching while votes for the North-West constituency are in storage overnight is rather small by comparison.

The report button exists for making complaints about any post you find offensive. Use it where you feel you should. It's a small warning triangle at the bottom left of every post.

Moderation complaints can be made to me or to any of the other forum moderators by PM or on the Help Desk so please use one of those avenues exclusively when seeking to discuss moderation (that's specifically in the rules)