Will a Cameron lead government be a disaster for Anglo-Irish relations!

ejmaztec

mike65 wrote: »

Laughable post, tbh. Middle England is in a near constant state of seething revolt. I suspect you are not actually paying much attention to reality and are indulging in Irish sterotyping of the English.

Although, relating to stereotypes, Dave has been compared to the bully Harry Flashman out of Tom Brown's Schooldays when he has a go at Gordon.

mike65

Gordon Brown is sterotyped as a brooding psycho, neither are fair!

Affable

mike65 wrote: »

Then your post makes even less sense! Look whats happened regarding MPs expenses, no-one is doffing caps to anyone. I'm frankly amazed, you living there, have that view. MPs are nearly being hunted down in some
constituences.

Huh? They were largely Labour were they not? Not really toffs from what I recall.

Well to put my point this way, the only time a PM has not been posh in my memory was when he was conservative, ie the party for the rich.
To get a Labour PM in, with positive opinion from the public, like Brown, or Kinnock, with a regional accent, is very hard.
Could be media driven, but the public has a snobbery.

Affable

mike65 wrote: »

The English are right to have concerns about Scottish domination of English affairs.

I'd agree to some extent but what makes you say that, out of interest?

mike65

Well its reasonable to be governed by those who shares similair concerns and cirumctances, If, as has been pointed out England is essentially non-Labour then having a cohort of Scots socialists ruling is bound to cause some conflict. The politics of the average Lothian is not that of the "Home Counties" and visa-versa of course.
Scottish MPs having a say over English affairs but no English MPs allowed to have a say over Scottish matters is unsustainable.

Orchard Rebel

Affable wrote: »

I'd agree to some extent but what makes you say that, out of interest?

The West Lothian Question has been rattling round for more than 30 years. But the key question for the UK may be the "Surrey Heath Question" I posed earlier. Whilst England will eventually get its own parliament, the key question is whether Tory rule from London (with little or no electoral mandate in Scotland) will push support for independence in Scotland over the magic 50% mark.

Affable

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

The West Lothian Question has been rattling round for more than 30 years. But the key question for the UK may be the "Surrey Heath Question" I posed earlier. Whilst England will eventually get its own parliament, the key question is whether Tory rule from London (with little or no electoral mandate in Scotland) will push support for independence in Scotland over the magic 50% mark.

What will happen besides, if Scotland gets independence-will Wales and NI follow? What will happen to English died in the blood Labour people-will we see an exodus to other parts of Europe or is patriotism greater than political affiliation?

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

Well its reasonable to be governed by those who shares similair concerns and cirumctances, If, as has been pointed out England is essentially non-Labour then having a cohort of Scots socialists ruling is bound to cause some conflict. The politics of the average Lothian is not that of the "Home Counties" and visa-versa of course.
Scottish MPs having a say over English affairs but no English MPs allowed to have a say over Scottish matters is unsustainable.

You lost all semblance of reality in that post the moment you equated Labour MP's as Socialist!

I thought the English rejected the chance of their own devolved administration?

Orchard Rebel

Affable wrote: »

What will happen besides, if Scotland gets independence-will Wales and NI follow? What will happen to English died in the blood Labour people-will we see an exodus to other parts of Europe or is patriotism greater than political affiliation?

At a guess, I don't think that either Wales or NI will leave the Union. I'd say its more likely (though not certain) that England will leave the Union of its own accord. There's a growing movement in England towards ditching the other regions and the EU - see the English Democrats who've started to make a breaththrough for one example.

I see the BNP have just got their first MEP. Not the best day ever for the land of my birth....

Affable

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

At a guess, I don't think that either Wales or NI will leave the Union. I'd say its more likely (though not certain) that England will leave the Union of its own accord. There's a growing movement in England towards ditching the other regions and the EU - see the English Democrats who've started to make a breaththrough for one example.

I see the BNP have just got their first MEP. Not the best day ever for the land of my birth....

You're english? How come you moved to Ireland out of interest? Have you found it a better place to live? Me personally, I can't see a huge amount of point in ditching the other regions or the EU. It would seem kind of backwards.

Dr. Baltar

Of course a conservative government is going to be more pro-unionist than labour or indeed the Lib Dems.

In regards to Scotland, Wales and indeed England itself, why should those nations not be entitled to leave the United Kingdom if a majority of their citizens wish to do so?

I can see Scotland becoming independent in our lifetime certainly, however, I doubt it will happen within the next government term. Also, independence will more than likely take the form of a "Scottish Free State" with the Queen/King remaining the Head of State as the royal family are as Scottish as they are English due to the lineage of James the IV and first.

Orchard Rebel

Affable wrote: »

You're english? How come you moved to Ireland out of interest? Have you found it a better place to live? Me personally, I can't see a huge amount of point in ditching the other regions or the EU. It would seem kind of backwards.

Father from South Armagh, mother of Cork descent, married to a West Cork girl and one little Rebel produced already. My English blood never stood a chance really.

I've been here a decade now and though I thought about going back to the UK, I decided against it. The world (and the UK) seems a lot more troubled than when I was growing up and I can see things getting worse before they get better. For all the faults in its governance, Ireland is as safe as anywhere to live and raise a family.

Off to bed. Night all.

rant_and_rave

This is a very perceptive commentary on Cameron’s policies and his attempts to position the Tory party in the center particularly in relation to race relations, economic policy and Europe. The ethnic vote in Britain has reached critical mass. Political parties cannot win elections without a sizeable chunk of the ethnic vote. Cameron has sacked or silenced the Little Englanders in the Tory party. He has softened the Tory position on Europe in order to attract more support from the City. He even sent Thatcher to meet the Pope in Rome in order to curry favour with Catholics before the local and European elections.

While there are some Conservative Party members that have strong views on the Union between NI and GB, British public opinion outside NI is totally indifferent to whether NI remains part of the Union or not. Many English voters would be quite happy to see Scotland leave as well. Cameron’s overriding concern is the potential breakup of the UK rather than a specific interest in preserving the union with NI and his overtures to Unionists should be seen in that context. Remember, the UUP took the Conservative Party whip until 1972 and consistently voted with the Tory party on most domestic issues after 72. They will continue to do so.

The political parties in NI are still very much aligned to the main ethnic/religious groups so it is only reasonable to assume that most British political parties would align themselves with the parties in NI that reflect their culture, ideas and beliefs. A Conservative British Prime Minister will always feel more comfortable with Unionists who proudly fly the Union flag than with Nationalists who wrap themselves in the Irish Tricolor which for many British people is the flag of the enemy i.e. the IRA. This is a perfectly natural reaction and part of the human condition. It also of course means that British Politicians can never be, despite best efforts, totally neutral arbitrators of the NI conflict. This is also true of their Southern counterparts.

Many Conservatives regard the GFA as surrender to the IRA and this is chiefly because the power sharing arrangement in the NI Assembly emasculates Unionism as no decisions can be taken without the agreement of Nationalists. Voting arrangements based on parallel consent or weighted majority voting rules neuter the Unionist majority and make elections meaningless. Those Unionists who voted in favour of the GFA did so because they felt threatened by the alternative which was the possibility of arrangement whereby the Irish Government would negotiate directly on behalf of the Nationalist majority and that decisions would be agreed between British and Irish Governments without any consultation with Unionists. If the Conservatives become dependent on Unionist support at Westminster then it is highly likely that the Unionists will drive Conservative Policy in NI and I strongly suspect that changing the voting arrangements in the Stormont Assembly will be high on their agenda.

Affable

rant_and_rave wrote: »

He has softened the Tory position on Europe in order to attract more support from the City.

The city is pro Europe? Interesting....