The hate for Obama

jank

Then they should go private. Again its their problem. Nobody elses.

Hmmm you are not very good at this thing they call logic, are you.

JohnMc1

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

What:eek:? First off, when did he promise that? And second, you must be seriously be deluded if you think thats the ONLY reason why 52% of a record turnout voted for him.

Right after the backlash of the Bank Bailout. Not my fault you weren't paying attention.

They can't afford it.

If they can magically afford HD-TVs and PS3s they can afford healthcare.

Some people with PEC's are being denied coverage.

You seem to think that its simply a case of people choosing to be uninsured. They don't have access.

I have a PEC too. I was charged extra for my coverage but I still got it. That excuse does not wash.

Unless you earn above 350k, you won't be.

IF you really believe that :rolleyes:

The only people who have anything to lose if this 'nonsense' gets passed, are the private insurers who don't want to offer more cheaper rates and better service.

The only people who have anything to lose if this 'nonsense' does not get passed, are the 45million uninsured and those who would prefer private coverage and will get a more competative service.

Again if you really believe that.:rolleyes:

jank wrote:

Hmmm you are not very good at this thing they call logic, are you.

And you and a few others on here aren't very good with reality.

Ruskie4Rent

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Right after the backlash of the Bank Bailout. Not my fault you weren't paying attention.

So you're saying that this pro-health care reform, pro-economic stimulus DEMOCRAT convinced 62,000,000 that he was going to reduce the size of the government?
You're gonna have to refresh my memory.

If they can magically afford HD-TVs and PS3s they can afford healthcare.

Damn those hypothetical idiots.

I have a PEC too. I was charged extra for my coverage but I still got it. That excuse does not wash.

There are people with conditions that insurance companies won't go near.

IF you really believe that ?

Well its in the bill AFAIK. Unlike those death panels that some were so eagre to believe.

Again if you really believe that?

Can you prove otherwise? Or are you just going to continue making rolly eyed comments for points you can't argue against?

JohnMc1

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

So you're saying that this pro-health care reform, pro-economic stimulus DEMOCRAT convinced 62,000,000 that he was going to reduce the size of the government?
You're gonna have to refresh my memory.

He broke another campaign promise. Are you really that shocked by now. We are talking about the guy who promised us Honesty and Transpaency and he's except that.

Can you prove otherwise? Or are you just going to continue making rolly eyed comments for points you can't argue against?

If you really think this Healthcare will be 100% absolutely no-strings attached free to people. That people under $350K will not see a huge tax hike then you truly deserve the rolling eyes.

Here's a dose of pure unadulterated reality for you and everybody else on here. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. THESE PROGRAMS ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE PAID FOR.

Overheal

jank wrote: »

I too visited a hospital in Boston many years ago after I got bitten by a dog. It was a world class hospital, probably the best I was ever in. Luckily as I was working at the time of the dog bite work paid for it through their insurance. I shudder to think what it would have cost if I didn't have insurance. Easily 4 figures anyway. No point having spanking clean world class hospitals if it is bankrupting people to use it.

Yeah, if only The Moonshot cost $1.95 too. Wouldn't that be flippin' swell.

If you want facts then the US spends more per GDP on health than any other developed country in the world and any world survey on health has then on the bottom half of the list. A 3 year old can tell there is something wrong here.

Bloody statistics. The average life expectancy of an American Male born yesterday is 78. That takes into account every dumbass that gets shot, stabbed, OD'd, or that dies of natural causes.

:rolleyes: I hope your children never have health issues as that remark stinks of cold-hearted high horse smugness.

Actually I am done talking to you.I hope you never have to stay up all night with your kids in a hospital praying they are all right after a car accident.

@$$hole..

ffs jank.

nesf

jank wrote: »

:rolleyes: I hope your children never have health issues as that remark stinks of cold-hearted high horse smugness.

Actually I am done talking to you.I hope you never have to stay up all night with your kids in a hospital praying they are all right after a car accident.

@$$hole..

Banned for a week for, well, idiocy.

LostinKildare

Too bad. jank's a mighty warrior in the war against stupidity

ChocolateSauce

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Wow. A liberal playing the race card again. I honestly did not see that coming. :rolleyes:

I wasn't referring to ethnicity specifically, more the nationalist aspect. You have disdain for unemployed people, and you put illegal aliens into the same sentence in such a way as to imply a disdain for them based solely on their lack of US citizenship.

I'll confess it was a bit of a leap to make, but I don't think I missed the mark. For what it's worth, I don't actually think you are a racist, I just think that wasn't a fair thing to say.

JohnMc1

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I wasn't referring to ethnicity specifically, more the nationalist aspect. You have disdain for unemployed people, and you put illegal aliens into the same sentence in such a way as to imply a disdain for them based solely on their lack of US citizenship.

I do feel bad for the people that have lost their jobs during this economic meltdown. They have my sympathy. The people who are able to work but choose not to are a different subject. They do not deserve any sympathy. Just scorn for leeching of a near dead system. For Illegal Immigrants. If you knowingly break the law by entering the Country they are criminals. End of Story. I am not interested in any of their sob stories. California is bankrupt because of Illegals and cities like San Fran [Pelosi's hometown] that harbor them.

I'll confess it was a bit of a leap to make,

An astronimcal leap.

but I don't think I missed the mark.

So far off the mark its not even funny. btw. Bank handed apologies don't make you [or anyone] look better.

For what it's worth, I don't actually think you are a racist, I just think that wasn't a fair thing to say.

Fair enough.

butterormayo

Toulousain wrote: »

Many Republicans would have believed quite strongly that those corporations should have been allowed to fail.

Only a tiny crackpot minority really believe in the pure free market, George Bush bailed out corporations and McCain would've done the same as Obama, most republicans and business people realise that not getting the taxpayer to pay for their lunacy would have led to total meltdown, things were bad enough after Lehman was let go imagine if all the big corporations were allowed to fail.

Sand

@Bobbyjoe

The question asked was about rights. Your reply is about natural rights. Don't think anyone is saying health doesn't have to be paid and provided for.

Very weak response to be honest. And your wrong. You asked the question in reply to my admiration for her recognition that healthcare is not a natural born right. And to be twice as wrong you asked...and I quote:

There is something to like about her???
Why shouldn't healthcare be a natural born right?

Figure out what you are asking and get back to me. Or dont. Its all good.

@Jank

Do you think we should revert back to an archaic society?

Well theres two points - Its not a given that every civillisation/state is in total agreement as to what has to be provided as part of the social contract. For the US, maybe they are happy with providing world class healthcare, plus a means ( health insurance) to pay for it should people wish to insure themselves. Certainly, not everyone will get the same insurance, but even in universal healthcare Europe there is a dawning realisation that perhaps some sort of premium for people who smoke 50 cigarettes, down 8 pints a day, never exercise and live off chinese meals is in order given such people are going to be taking up more and more resources.

Secondly on a related point a civillisation or state may be wary of creating a dependant underclass, which lives of social welfare and has its self respect and dignity eroded. They may prefer a system which requires responsibility.

I never said anything about natural.

See above. I did.

Again, I never said anything about natural.

Again, see above. I did.

Sorry but you are talking like a lawyer and dancing around words. Of course it has to be paid for just like any other service. Why do we pay taxes?
But it is a right that people should have access to it.

Again, you are presuming that there is only one way to fund a health service. Through taxes. Others might disagree.

I too visited a hospital in Boston many years ago after I got bitten by a dog. It was a world class hospital, probably the best I was ever in. Luckily as I was working at the time of the dog bite work paid for it through their insurance.

Amazing. You were insured and got world class treatment.

If you want facts then the US spends more per GDP on health than any other developed country in the world and any world survey on health has then on the bottom half of the list. A 3 year old can tell there is something wrong here.

Depends on the weighting given to free access to treatment. A system like the NHS is easily going to trump the US on that count. If the survey agrees with your view that everything else is worthless if its not cheap/free to access then that might be the only variable they consider. Hence all the other fields in which the US health system easily trumps the NHS are not considered all that important.

So what would you propose Sand as you never seem to nail your opinion to the mast in any topic. What would you do?

In the US? Id get insurance. Here in Ireland, with our universal healthcare? I have insurance. In either country you need insurance to get decent access to proper treatment. Funny that.

I hope your children never have health issues as that remark stinks of cold-hearted high horse smugness.

Me too.

Actually I am done talking to you.I hope you never have to stay up all night with your kids in a hospital praying they are all right after a car accident.

Me too.

@$$hole..

Ive been called worse by people I dont know on the internet to be honest.

Overheal

butterormayo wrote: »

Only a tiny crackpot minority really believe in the pure free market, George Bush bailed out corporations and McCain would've done the same as Obama, most republicans and business people realise that not getting the taxpayer to pay for their lunacy would have led to total meltdown, things were bad enough after Lehman was let go imagine if all the big corporations were allowed to fail.

count me in






Economic Theories about Capitalism - the one's that I was taught, by an Irish educator (Actually by the name of Jamesie O'Connor - you may have heard of him...) Never mentioned anything about bailouts as part of the Capitalist economic model. Business need to fail. To bailout eliminates risk, and undermines ... everything about economics. tbh.

Ruskie4Rent

JohnMc1 wrote: »

He broke another campaign promise. Are you really that shocked by now. We are talking about the guy who promised us Honesty and Transpaency and he's except that.

You're still doing little to remind me of when he made this promise and how EVERYONE that voted for him, did so based on that promise.

If you really think this Healthcare will be 100% absolutely no-strings attached free to people. That people under $350K will not see a huge tax hike then you truly deserve the rolling eyes.

No i'm not. If you think i'm wrong about something, correct me on it. Reference something. Give me a dose of reality.

Overheal

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

You're still doing little to remind me of when he made this promise and how EVERYONE that voted for him, did so based on that promise.

I can say honestly, he made those claims during the Debates, and, they were one of his strongest election points for me. If you look at the CNN post analysis sessions, they bring up the point quite a lot. All of which, is of course, available on google vids.

Wompa1

I voted for Obama but I kind of regret that now. I didn't agree with the bailout, I don't like the cash for clunkers idea and he seems to be more about his image than anything else. He does alot of hokey press oppurtunities like Fathers Day with Tony Hawk, Getting interview by an 11 year old, Going to the burger place in D.C etc. I mean Bush spent way too much time on his ranch too but I thought Obama was about change.

He's not such a smooth talker either without a teleprompter just like W he seems to have made alot of f**k ups already. The Special Olympics comment, calling the arresting police officer in the Gates debacle stupid etc. He's got the good sense to do most of his talking with one though.

The town hall meetings look crazy over there and from their standpoint I can see why, they don't like socialism

Ruskie4Rent

Overheal wrote: »

I can say honestly, he made those claims during the Debates, and, they were one of his strongest election points for me. If you look at the CNN post analysis sessions, they bring up the point quite a lot. All of which, is of course, available on google vids.

The only thing i remember from the debates on the issue was something along the lines of not reducing government size and increasing its effectiveness, i'm open to correction though.

I don't know why you thought that stimulus spending and health care reform would not be near the top of his agenda.

Overheal

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

The only thing i remember from the debates on the issue was something along the lines of not reducing government size and increasing its effectiveness, i'm open to correction though.

I don't know why you thought that stimulus spending and health care reform would not be near the top of his agenda.

I did, but frankly, being strapping and healthy, healthcare wasnt my biggie at the time. Oh how naive.

Aaaanywho. I googled the transcripts. Obama didnt mention transparency-anything in the debates a-once. My recollection fails me.

However,

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/21/obama.business/index.html

Vowing transparency, Obama OKs ethics guidelines

• Story Highlights
• NEW: Obama retakes oath of office Wednesday night
• NEW: Obama meets with military advisers to assess situations in Iraq, Afghanistan
• Administration drafting executive orders calling for Guantanamo Bay's closure
• President to freeze pay for senior staff, signs ethics guidelines

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Promising "a new era of openness in our country," President Obama signed executive orders Wednesday relating to ethics guidelines for staff members of his administration.
"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency," Obama said.

cont'd...

bobbyjoe

Sand wrote: »

@Bobbyjoe



Very weak response to be honest. And your wrong. You asked the question in reply to my admiration for her recognition that healthcare is not a natural born right. And to be twice as wrong you asked...and I quote:



Figure out what you are asking and get back to me. Or dont. Its all good.

You are right she said Natural born right as did I and you answered about natural born rights.

I meant to say a right.

Considering they are the richest country in the world one would think they would look after their own people. Especially when they are spending trillions "helping" the populations of other countries.

JohnMc1

bobbyjoe wrote: »

You are right she said Natural born right as did I and you answered about natural born rights.

I meant to say a right.

Considering they are the richest country in the world one would think they would look after their own people. Especially when they are spending trillions "helping" the populations of other countries.

The Govt can or should only do so much. At the end of the day the only ones responsible for our quality of life is Ourselves.

butterormayo

Overheal wrote: »

count me in






Economic Theories about Capitalism - the one's that I was taught, by an Irish educator (Actually by the name of Jamesie O'Connor - you may have heard of him...) Never mentioned anything about bailouts as part of the Capitalist economic model. Business need to fail. To bailout eliminates risk, and undermines ... everything about economics. tbh.

Yes businesses have to fail, but if a large number of big businesses failed it would ruin the entire economy. Economic theories are all fine and well in college but at the end of the day the business elite don't really believe in capitalism, they want the state to stay out of their business when times are good but when things change Wall St comes looking for a handout. It has always been thus.

Nodin

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Considering we're supposed to be footing the bill for this nonsense we deserve more consideration than the Illegals and the Welfare lifers.

Really? Because my understanding of it is that a great deal of the problem actual lies with those on low income who are neither poor enough to avail of what schemes are there or wealthy enough to go private.......Another factor is the fact that a business exists to make profit, and whilst medical insurance operates under that motive, it will inevitably seek to 'short change' the public.

getcover

Wompa1 wrote: »

The town hall meetings look crazy over there and from their standpoint I can see why, they don't like socialism

A Health Care system that will provide insurance for the more than 50 million Americans without health cover is socialism?

Overheal

getcover wrote: »

A Health Care system that will provide insurance for the more than 50 million Americans without health cover is socialism?

Forcing the other 300m into it is.

tolosenc

getcover wrote: »

A Health Care system that will provide insurance for the more than 50 million Americans without health cover is socialism?

How many of those 50 million actually are "uninsured"?

USA has 9,000,000 millionaires. Doubt they want insurance (ie could afford it in the unlikely event that they need it)

I'd imagine people who are wealthy but not in that bracket might also want to take the chance.

There are others, don't have time to go into while in work.

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

Forcing the other 300m into it is.

How are they being forced into it? Anyone who has private insurance can keep it if they want to. Or they can CHOOSE to BUY a policy from the government-sponsored program.

irish_bob

Overheal wrote: »

Forcing the other 300m into it is.

your forced to cough up for two major wars , have you any say in that

JohnMc1

LostinKildare wrote: »

How are they being forced into it?

I don't maybe something like PAYING THE BILL FOR EVERYTHING AND HAVING OUR TAXES INCREASED AGAIN.

bobbyjoe

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I don't maybe something like PAYING THE BILL FOR EVERYTHING AND HAVING OUR TAXES INCREASED AGAIN.

This guy explains the reasons pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU8OQFQZC-8

norbert64

Getting back on topic, we're back on the election campaign, lol.

At a townhall hosted by McCain, the crowd boos him for being nice to Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUYKsSvYDo

synd

Obama is nothing more than a tool of bourgeoisie class rule. He actually received more corporate funding than mcain - he is retaining corporatism, kept on much of bushes internal cabinet and continues to wage imperialist wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Liberalism incarnate - the manifestation of the ''a-political''.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXL998q7skI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYdvQZVvrU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJyrrgUvFI