The hate for Obama

norbert64

Overheal wrote: »

Eh... John Kerry. Need I say more? An election the Dems might have easily won, had they picked their nominee better.

i thought the whole swiftboating malarkey was actually the problem

jonny72

obl wrote: »

Obama got what, 52% of the popular vote? And, in fairness, a huge number of his supporters where stark raving lunatics. Surely it's a logical conclusion to draw that there would be equally passionate people in the US, comprising the other 48% of the electorate.

There were many scathing critiques of the Bush Administration. They were responsible for a lot of very unpopular stuff. Obama was touted as some sort of modern age messiah. Thus far, he has failed to live up to the outrageously high expectations many people put upon him. He has also been the source of many unpopular decisions in the US, such as various nationalisations of corporations/bank bail-outs, in what is supposed to be the most free and democratic country in the world. Many Republicans would have believed quite strongly that those corporations should have been allowed to fail.

Politics by it's very nature is highly divisive, with people subscribing to beliefs that can be the 100% inverse of someone elses.

However, OP, your problem seems to lie with, as Manic Moran says, not being able to accept criticism of "your guy", where you may have been quite quick to jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon.

So, essentially, I hereby declare my first law of Politics:
For every belief, there is an equal and opposite belief.

Actually no, this one seems pretty special. Have you ever noticed that, perhaps, on a random newspaper site with comments allowed, then when a Russian event happens, the usual local comments disappear and it gets utterly utterly swamped with one sided jingoistic Russian nationalist comments all from Russians. Almost feels orchestrated sometimes. Fair enough they are interested in events, but the one-sidedness is something I always notice, sometimes it is literally 100% with only a few foreigners giving a different take on matter.

Actually if you take a look at any Uighur/Han Chinese news story with comments allowed, theres one or two on www.timesonline.co.uk for example, you'll see that, of course, there are the ultra nationalistic Chinese comments there BUT, strange, there is no partisianship, no different views, just one solid Chinese view, no one single solitory Chinese soul saying, wait a second, maybe this is just propaganda from our government.

What I am trying to point out is, the large majority of Obama haters seem to have the same characteristics, there is no other opinion, no debate, America is turning to communism, this giant healthcare system will kill us all and we should carpet nuke X country for X reason. Its largely a giant wall of dumb. A mass of idiots with little decent critique.

There were even Bush supporters I admired, comments I read that were good, and this is Bush we are speaking about. I read good and bad about Hilary Clinton, but generally intelligent good and bad. I am still waiting for the intelligent bad about Obama.

Overheal

norbert64 wrote: »

i thought the whole swiftboating malarkey was actually the problem

tbh i dunno all the details. its not a campaign i followed very much, I was too busy with Junior Cert or something. All I know was the guy looked like a disgusting old hag and his military record was in serious question.

Though I recently caught some MAD TV parodies of the 2004 debates which were hilarious. look em up.

The intelligent bad for obama is looming. Its all going to hinge on economic issues. On a personal note you cant help but be tired of the man's gross overconfidence.

JohnMc1

norbert64 wrote: »

i thought the whole swiftboating malarkey was actually the problem

Him opening his mouth was the problem. He's an American Foggy Dewherst. His war stories are so made up its ridiculous [He was in 'Nam for 4 weeks with a camera crew conveniantly following him. Sustained no serious life threatening injuries and somehow left with 3 purple hearts and some other medals] His service was a joke.

The fact he was rightfully dubbed The King of Flip-Flops also didn't help either.

Manic Moran

norbert64 wrote: »

i thought the whole swiftboating malarkey was actually the problem

I don't think so. Despite the fact that he was anti-gun, never a recipe for success in the demographics he was supposed to be good at (Home State Loss, anyone?), I think the effect of the Swiftboating was overstated. It was his reaction to it which turned a lot of people off. The general perception I got was "I was a war vet! Look! I got the medals to prove it!" Perfectly validly earned awards, but veterans tend not to like military show-offs. His early departure from Vietnam, though perfectly legal, was also a bit of a turn-off for veterans. It's rather bad form to leave early.

Combine that with some verbal goofs on the Palin level, and that was about all she wrote.

NTM

JohnMc1

LOL @ Kerry legitimately earning 3 Purple Hearts for being in Vietnam for barely a month [with a camera crew in tow]

Manic Moran

Why not? I've got a guy in my unit who got his first purple heart about three hours after going outside the wire. He's only been here three days, it was his first mission. He'll return to duty, it's a graze to the shoulder.

NTM

jill_valentine

Maybe you're right, and the degree of hatin' might be the same, but the nature of it is certainly different. Bush was disliked, at least in the main, because lefty types disliked his policies and his administration. The Obama hatred is a little different - for the righty guys it seems to be much more a question of his perceived "moral character", so you get a lot more weird propaganda suggesting he might actually be the antichrist, for instance. The nature of the paranoia and kind of conspiracy theories related to Obama are also considerably wackier.

This might just be because Bush generously offered a whole host of ammo to people who were gonna hate him anyway though, I guess, but it's a curious distinction to me.

Kiniska

I can't believe some of these replies. If you were your Jr. Cert during the election and didn't pay too much attention, then why even reply!! How can anyone say that Kerry's military record was in serious question compared to Bush's Military Record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bush's Military record was that he got his rich daddy to get him the biggest tit job in the US military at the time and then didn't even bother to show up. But this was all overlooked by the disgusting Swift Boat attack against Kerry by Fox News and the seriously distorted American News!!!

Kerry might not have had the Billboard smile, but he was far better than Bush no matter how you compared them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jank

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Him opening his mouth was the problem. He's an American Foggy Dewherst. His war stories are so made up its ridiculous [He was in 'Nam for 4 weeks with a camera crew conveniantly following him. Sustained no serious life threatening injuries and somehow left with 3 purple hearts and some other medals] His service was a joke.

The fact he was rightfully dubbed The King of Flip-Flops also didn't help either.

Do you care to back this up?

jank

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The Democrats have a complete tool in the White House and tools running the House and Senate.

People on here need to remember that before popping off about anybody without a D beside their names.

The the Repubs did a great job from 2000-2006 didnt they?
See all is see here is moan moan moan but no actual reasonable discussion or alternatives!

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

On a personal note you cant help but be tired of the man's gross overconfidence.

Oh jeez. What are you talking about?

JohnMc1

Manic Moran wrote: »

Why not? I've got a guy in my unit who got his first purple heart about three hours after going outside the wire. He's only been here three days, it was his first mission. He'll return to duty, it's a graze to the shoulder.

NTM

Then Purple Hearts don't mean anything then if they are given out so easily.

Kiniska wrote:

I can't believe some of these replies. If you were your Jr. Cert during the election and didn't pay too much attention, then why even reply!! How can anyone say that Kerry's military record was in serious question compared to Bush's Military Record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bush's Military record was that he got his rich daddy to get him the biggest tit job in the US military at the time and then didn't even bother to show up. But this was all overlooked by the disgusting Swift Boat attack against Kerry by Fox News and the seriously distorted American News!!!

Kerry might not have had the Billboard smile, but he was far better than Bush no matter how you compared them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neither of them did anything of merit during Vietnam so their "service" should have been a moot point and shouldn't have been a factor during the 2004 election.

And if military service was so important like the Dems wanted us to believe beack in '04 we would be talking about President McCain today instead of President Obama.

Kerry better than Bush? Put down the Kool-aid. Kerry couldn't keep a thought in his head for more than a second without flip-flopping.

jabbertalky

What are you on about - hate? The way the Americans talk about Obama you'd think he walks on water.

Overheal

LostinKildare wrote: »

Oh jeez. What are you talking about?

If you dont see it now: you will.

Poccington

JohnMc1 wrote: »

LOL @ Kerry legitimately earning 3 Purple Hearts for being in Vietnam for barely a month [with a camera crew in tow]

It was nearly 3 months between Kerry getting his first Purple Heart and his second one.

So to say he was in Vietnam for barely a month and got all 3 is a bit of a porky pie.

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

If you dont see it now: you will.

FFS. This thread is about mindless criticism of Obama. I ask you what you mean when you make what seems to me mindless criticism of Obama

On a personal note you cant help but be tired of the man's gross overconfidence.

and you dodge the question.

What is it that Obama has done that illustrates his "gross overconfidence"? It must be obvious if we can't help but be tired of it. Let's hear it.

Overheal

I was trying to look for the daily show clip that highlights it in a neat little package while saving me from going blue in the keyboard this morning - mind you I was getting ready for work when I posted my reply. Sorry LK not trying to dodge, just busy.

@work be back soon.

edit: pretty much this though, regarding recent events,

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_12812432

I mean I know the job of the president is to be confident and unwavering, but at some point you need to acknowledge it a bit when you made an error. We arent seeing that attitude at all:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/07/mixed_messages_2.asp

“Turning to domestic issues, the president said that when Vice President Joe Biden recently told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos that the White House ‘misread’ the economy when planning the stimulus package in January, the president said that ‘what Vice President Biden was referring to was simply the fact that when we passed he stimulus, we hadn’t gotten the full report of the first quarter contractions in the economy that turned out to be way worse than anybody had anticipated.’ But the president denied that his economic prescription was wrong because the diagnosis was incomplete. ‘There’s nothing that we would have done differently,’ he said. ‘We needed a stimulus and we needed a substantial stimulus.’”

Meanwhile... (And I hope only to make 18k this year. Im twice over my head in this shared debt figure)

All the while, trying to radically reform the healthcare system in a time of extreme economic uncertainty... I dunno. I think he's ****ing crazy if he plans to do all of this without ****ing it up major.

LostinKildare

Thank you for giving reasons, weak though they are.

It's hardly a sign of gross overconfidence for a president of the United States to talk up the economy when it's foundering, and to reassure the public that things are improving. It's a flipping necessity. He doesn't admit error re the stimulus because he -- and a slew of economists -- doesn't think he's erred (except that possibly the stimulus should have been bigger, but that was not gonna happen). That the situation's worse than forecast doesn't mean that there should have been no stimulus.

To keep this on-topic, you disagree with the policy, fine, but why is his supporting the policy somehow evidence of a massive ego trip?

And cmon, you think that tackling healthcare is a sign of Obama's overweening self-regard? Healthcare reform has to be done, and fast, in this economic climate. People are losing their health insurance as they lose their jobs. Faster than ever, even people who do have insurance are being forced into bankruptcies, and foreclosures, by medical bills (I believe medical bills are the no. 1 reason for bankruptcies in the US). This is inextricably connected to the economy.

More children lack coverage than ever before. People are dying because they can't pay for treatment. But you think Obama should blow it off to his next term so that we won't think he's big-headed?

Manic Moran

Then Purple Hearts don't mean anything then if they are given out so easily.

If they're that easy to get, may I inquire as to how many you have?

NTM

Manic Moran

Kiniska wrote: »

Bush's Military record was that he got his rich daddy to get him the biggest tit job in the US military at the time and then didn't even bother to show up.

For the record, at the time Bush entered flight school, his Air Guard unit (147th FIG) was flying missions over Vietnam. There was absolutely no guarantee of a cushy position. By the time he had earned his wings, the situation over Vietnam was such that it was decided that the US's premier bomber interceptor was not required in numbers in theater, and the aircraft returned to its primary mission of nuclear-armed bomber interception of the US coast. Flying the Deuce was no 'tit' job, no matter how much you dislike Bush. (It was actually regarded as somewhat dangerous, not to mention the importance being assigned to people with fingers on nuclear triggers).

Either way, here's something that many non-military types don't seem to understand about veterans. We don't care if a trooper was an admin clerk, spent his entire military career in Germany and never got into anything more dangerous than a bar fight during Oktoberfest. They either served, or they didn't. Bush served.

Bush was disliked, at least in the main, because lefty types disliked his policies and his administration. The Obama hatred is a little different - for the righty guys it seems to be much more a question of his perceived "moral character", so you get a lot more weird propaganda suggesting he might actually be the antichrist, for instance. The nature of the paranoia and kind of conspiracy theories related to Obama are also considerably wackier.

I'm going to disagree with you on this. I hang around the odd right-wing board, and most of the objection to Obama is policy-based. Sure, there's the odd shill going on about how "Hussein" is going to betray the US or whatever, but I'm sure a search for "Bush Illuminati" will respond with more than a few hits as well.

NTM

Manic Moran

It's hardly a sign of gross overconfidence for a president of the United States to talk up the economy when it's foundering, and to reassure the public that things are improving. It's a flipping necessity.

Amusingly, it was statements of such a nature which tended to be seized upon by Democrats during the run-up to the election.

NTM

LostinKildare

Manic Moran wrote: »

Amusingly, it was statements of such a nature which tended to be seized upon by Democrats during the run-up to the election.

NTM

Actually, no. Grossly-overconfident-of-his-very-limited-abilities President Bush denied that there was a problem at all, and did nothing to try to forestall or mitigate it. Hadn't got a clue what to do -- just like the deer-in-the-headlights look when they whispered in his ear that the country was under attack. Eventually the whopper bailout that Republicans conveniently forget about when they're railing about Obama's deficit.

Whatever. Sorry, I know I'm off-thread with Bush hatred. Just, grrrr.

jank

jank wrote: »

Do you care to back this up?

Nice Doge JohnMc1!

JohnMc1

jank wrote: »

Nice Doge JohnMc1!

If I thought you were willing to put the Kool-aid for a minute I would try and have a discussion but since nothing I say or post will change your mind you're not worth the effort.

jabbertalky

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm going to disagree with you on this. I hang around the odd right-wing board, and most of the objection to Obama is policy-based. Sure, there's the odd shill going on about how "Hussein" is going to betray the US or whatever, but I'm sure a search for "Bush Illuminati" will respond with more than a few hits as well.

What are you on about. George Bush was the most unpopular president in American history. He and his right wingers wrecked American and half the world. And here you are going on about objection to Obama. Jesus, if I lived in American I'd be on my knees every night thanking god for anyone but that stupid fascist they had for the last 8 years.

Overheal

im not saying he wasnt unpopular, but Id pit Nixon as more infamous.

JohnMc1

jabbertalky wrote: »

What are you on about. George Bush was the most unpopular president in American history. He and his right wingers wrecked American and half the world.

And a great job Obama and the Dems are doing of making things better. Oh. wait a minute they made thing worse in only 6 Months. How's the Kool-Aid?

Jesus, if I lived in American I'd be on my knees every night thanking god for anyone but that stupid fascist they had for the last 8 years.

If you lived in America you wouldn't be praising Obama and the Dems as much as you and most others on here do. Keep worshipping him as your taxes get doubled or tripled due to Cap and Trade more jobs are lost because he has to do like Spain and make "Green" jobs [despite Spain being @ 22% unemployment and @ 220 regular lost every time they make a "Green" job]

Again how does the Kool-Aid taste?

Overheal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

How's the Kool-Aid?

Again how does the Kool-Aid taste?

Ah grow up would ya. We can debate without that spun-up bs.

Reindeer

Running Bing wrote: »

See I dont think thats the case at all. I mean people are pretty up in arms over FF now for obvious reasons but aside from that I dont see the level of hatred that seems to be present in US politics. Also a lot of people calling for Fianna Fail blood voted them in and its quite reasonable to believe that in the future they will vote for them again.


There very different systems. Dont get me wrong I think US politics is far superior to Irish politics I just feel the level of partisanship and hatred present in the US is one problem we dont have over here.

Do not confuse the different issues with partisanship. Simply because Ireland does not have as many polarizing issues as the US does not mean there are NO issues worthy of creating a large political divide such as there is in the US. Because there still are so many freedoms left, there still is much worth fighting over, and oftentimes bitterly.

The anti Bush and Pro Gore/Clinton crowd has spewed incredible venom in the US. You haven't seen it as much abroad. The conservatives did the same when Clinton was in. If you feel Bush got a free ride compared to Obama, you just need to simply perform a search of these forums, let alone any in the sates.