Green Party been Wiped out locally

LostinBlanch

Junior wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that the Green's got a pasting just because they are greens isn't seeing the full picture, I think anyone who voted for them last time around felt they were a bit of hope or change, however soon as they got a sniff of power they became the same as the party they despised the most.

Most people expected them to act almost as a 'conscience' for FF - yet they rolled over faster than someone waving a bone to a fat dog ..

Indeed, they morphed into the PDs overnight; which given the absolute loathing they had for the PDs was a hell of a trick.

Macha

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Agreed. I was hoping that they'd repeal the infamous 1998 cycle track regulations introduced by the PDs (which unpicked all the good cycle track laws and allowed driving and parking on cycel tracks). I was hoping they'd at least make sure that the few existing cycle facilitieswould be properly maintained.

Instead, they're promoting grandiose cycling projects like the S2S and the Velib thingies, of more use to tourists than to the average worker cycling to work.

cyclopath2001, you are aware that they're not in charge of the Dept. of Transport?

briktop

ha ha , bye bye morons .
you got my vote last time , but this time you got kicked right into the compost bin .


now do the decent thing and pull the plug or be despised and destroyed

nice_guy80

some of the Green Party policies are badly needed in the country -
pity the builders were'nt brought to heel years ago over house insulation standards

I'd happily have more Green Party policies. many ideas are not popular - which means they must be needed!!!

problem is, Greens now associated with FF

Ardent

taconnol wrote: »

The most cowardly thing they could do is pull out now.

I really don't understand why everyone is spitting feathers over the Greens when it's FF policies that have gotten us where we are.

Surely, given your last statement there, the most honourable thing they could do is pull out of government. But of course they won't do that. Never get a vote from me again, may they rot.

Traumadoc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkoz7hmc1s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efinfacts%2Ecom%2Firelandbusinessnews%2Fpublish%2Farticle%5F1011169%2Eshtml&feature=player_embedded

from about 3.25 , for a good laugh.

then one year later: he was almost crying when Ahern announced his resignation.
then this:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0506/breaking48.htm



I think that many of us who voted for Greens expected they would never go into government with Fianna Fail.

Macha

Ardent wrote: »

Surely, given your last statement there, the most honourable thing they could do is pull out of government. But of course they won't do that. Never get a vote from me again, may they rot.

This "may they rot", "burn in hell" stuff is so over the top, it's ridiculous.

They've been in power for 2 years and as a minority party have implemented some excellent policies, steering Ireland in the right direction in terms of energy efficiency, grid interconnection, electric vehicles, growth of renewables, growth of green jobs yet they deserve this sort of crap?

I really think people are just being completely unreasonable and illogical. Do you really think any of the other smaller parties wouldn't have joined with FF to get into government in the last election? You think Labour wouldn't have?? Nonsense, of course they would have.

Traumadoc

Look at Gormleys speach in 2007.
He fooled everyone who voted for him believing he would never go into coalition with Ahern.
I and many others will not be fooled again.

jonsnow

I am not a green voter and am actually quite right wing vis-a-vis economic policy.But I would be sad to see the total annihalation of the Irish Green Party.In the long run as a society and as a race we have to come up with more sustainable ways to live.The problem with the Green Party is that while strategically they are spot on about some of the steps Ireland they got their short-term tactics horrifically wrong by going into government with a FF party on the brink of the greatest economic meltdown since the great depression.

I think in Government they have actually been by far the best ministers and have got a reasonable amount of their agenda implemented (given their small size).But they have gone the way of all small parties who go into coalition with FF and have been destroyed.Their base has deserted them and it may have set the green movement back 20 years in Ireland and just when it was gaining momentum.

Macha

jonsnow wrote: »

But they have gone the way of all small parties who go into coalition with FF and have been destroyed.Their base has deserted them and it may have set the green movement back 20 years in Ireland and just when it was gaining momentum.

Indeed, I just don't think they deserve the sort of venom that's being displayed here. PDs? Now their policies well and truly did a lot of damage.

I don't think the green movement will be set back - EU legislation and the economics of renewable energy/efficiency will see to that.

oscarBravo

I was on the Dáil tour that Black Briar mentioned earlier. I had a chat with one Green about the pros and cons of continuing to support Fianna Fáil in government, and he pointed out that they're in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation - that in one sense it would be too easy to pull out and that the courageous thing to do was to ensure a stable government during a crisis.

I didn't fully articulate my feelings at the time, but afterwards I thought of the best analogy - flying straight and level is usually a good idea, unless you happen to be flying straight towards a wall.

Should the Greens pull out of government? I honestly don't know. I think if there was an election in the morning, the opposition would win it, and be charged with dragging the country out of the abyss that it's in. I think Fianna Fáil would be the meanest, most spiteful type of opposition imaginable, and would find a way of blaming the new government for everything that they themselves have frigged up over the past decade. And I think the electorate would lap that message up, and carry Fianna Fáil home in triumph at the next election.

That said: if the Greens continue to prop FF up until the next election, then whatever green shoots have appeared by then will be greedily claimed by the government, and the electorate will buy the "safe pair of hands" propaganda willingly.

One way or another, the Greens are paying a heavy price for being Fianna Fáil's prop - an all too familiar story for smaller parties.

DTrotter

taconnol wrote: »

This "may they rot", "burn in hell" stuff is so over the top, it's ridiculous.

They've been in power for 2 years and as a minority party have implemented some excellent policies, steering Ireland in the right direction in terms of energy efficiency, grid interconnection, electric vehicles, growth of renewables, growth of green jobs yet they deserve this sort of crap?

I really think people are just being completely unreasonable and illogical. Do you really think any of the other smaller parties wouldn't have joined with FF to get into government in the last election? You think Labour wouldn't have?? Nonsense, of course they would have.

While I agree about the policies we need I just can't forget that Ryan moron harping on about lightbulbs as it was some great achievement while the country was right on the toilet ledge last year.

Ludo

taconnol wrote: »

I really think people are just being completely unreasonable and illogical. Do you really think any of the other smaller parties wouldn't have joined with FF to get into government in the last election? You think Labour wouldn't have?? Nonsense, of course they would have.

You are missing the point though...some people voted Green in the safe knowledge that they would NOT enter a coalition with FF. This was stated more or less as fact by the greens at the time. Therefore I voted for them safe in the knowledge that I would in no way be supporting a potential FF led government. Look where that vote got me! Therefore they have lost my trust. Other smaller parties, to my knowledge, did not rule out such a coalition before the election.

Ludo

taconnol wrote: »

I don't think the green movement will be set back - EU legislation and the economics of renewable energy/efficiency will see to that.

By that reasoning, there is no need for a Green party to exist here then...problem solved!

LostinBlanch

Traumadoc wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkoz7hmc1s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efinfacts%2Ecom%2Firelandbusinessnews%2Fpublish%2Farticle%5F1011169%2Eshtml&feature=player_embedded

from about 3.25 , for a good laugh.

Cheers traumadoc. See what he says at 06.30 in about McDowell going native and becoming more FF than FF themselves? And asking who would have thought that the pds would want to close down the tribunals and have nothing to say about corruption? Well the boot is definitely on the other foot now.

Traumadoc wrote: »

then one year later: he was almost crying when Ahern announced his resignation.
then this:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0506/breaking48.htm



I think that many of us who voted for Greens expected they would never go into government with Fianna Fail.

Very true.

Akrasia

taconnol wrote: »

This "may they rot", "burn in hell" stuff is so over the top, it's ridiculous.

They've been in power for 2 years and as a minority party have implemented some excellent policies, steering Ireland in the right direction in terms of energy efficiency, grid interconnection, electric vehicles, growth of renewables, growth of green jobs yet they deserve this sort of crap?

I really think people are just being completely unreasonable and illogical. Do you really think any of the other smaller parties wouldn't have joined with FF to get into government in the last election? You think Labour wouldn't have?? Nonsense, of course they would have.

but they didn't, the greens did, and now they're keeping FF in power when the message is crystal clear that the vast majority of the people in this country want them out.

If you vote for FF, you know what you're getting. People voted for the greens in the last election in good faith, and they feel betrayed, of course there is going to be outrage

Villain

Ludo wrote: »

You are missing the point though...some people voted Green in the safe knowledge that they would NOT enter a coalition with FF. This was stated more or less as fact by the greens at the time. Therefore I voted for them safe in the knowledge that I would in no way be supporting a potential FF led government. Look where that vote got me! Therefore they have lost my trust. Other smaller parties, to my knowledge, did not rule out such a coalition before the election.

Thats exactly the problem and Sargent stepping aside doesn't excuse it, Gormley was just as anti-FF before the election as Sargent, now by jumping into Bed with FF has cost the Greens votes and they may be votes that will not be regained in the short or medium term.

You can only go 1 way in the polls if you ignore the will of the people.

is_that_so

David Davin Power earlier this evening suggested that no-one saw this coming purely because the Greens vote base tends to be so low and when the margin of error is included in opinion polls, it gave the impression that they had remained more or less unchanged.

I don't the think the Greens can extricate themselves easily from this at all unless they can find a fundamentally principled disagreement with FF to allow them to withdraw. Unfortunately their goose is cooked for now and they will probably lose all of their seats.

I also think the safe pair of hands pitch has been overplayed and backfired this time out. The fact that the electorate seemed to completely ignore FF's exhortations this time round should not be any different in a couple of years time or whenever it happens. It will also be a chance to take a kick at both of them again. What is also against them this time is the enthusiasm of the electorate for an election with the express purpose of dumping them.

Furthermore FF look very tired and with very little new blood coming through the councils it'll be the same old faces. Who's to say how they'll cope with the battering the larger opposition will give them over that time? Quite badly I suspect.

With the demise of both the PDs and probably the Greens the opposition will only need a mere handful of seats to get a majority. My guess is that FF will recover from their all time low but will at best get into the 60s in seats. FG should beat that and Labour should get to the mid-20s at least.

Yoda

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Did you hear George Lee on RTE this afternoon? For me, he nailed it on the head. the Greens have to decide whether they actually want to stay in power and betray what principles they have, or get out soon and rebuild so they may be electable in the election after next.

I didn't hear Lee but I agree with you.

My thoughts on the matter: The Greens have a choice before them. If they are selfish, they will stick in this "government" (I can't bring myself to write it without scare quotes) to try to wring what bit of good they think they can wring.

But that is deeply selfish, if they understand the analysis that what this election has said is that people have no confidence in FF or its policies. If they were patriots, they would pull out, take the hit in the General Election, and rebuild in time.

I don't see much grey area. For the good of the country we need a General Election, not more years of reactive and thoughtless FF "policy".

We may hope that the members of the Green Party will challenge its leadership to make the right choice, painful as it will be. I like the Green agenda. I respect them for getting into bed with FF, because it was a way for them to test the waters of government. I think that the two ministers have tried to do some good with their portfolios, which is rare enough. But if they don't pull out of Government, however, I don't think I will be able to respect them, because I can't believe that they actually believe that FF policies are good for this country right now—and that leaves them putting their selfishness ahead of the good of the country.

Raiser

The Green Party were a vain, cynical, opportunistic self-serving exercise in misplaced, flawed idealism and peddaling daft three-faced, insincere notions to the gullible that had no relevance whatsoever for the Irish people...... Their idiocy will be their legacy and people will not easily forget their multitude of moronic policies.....

Bizarre occurrences such as targeting motorists with punitive taxes in the absence of the supposed alternative of a public transport system - while in fact they were simultaneously cutting Bus Services and laying Drivers off ?????

- Please!!! They're lucky to have gotten out of this alive; I'd have been in favour of publicly guillotining every last one of our Green Vegetables........

Mr.Micro

We have a Green TD in this constituency and the sitting Green CC got one the lowest number of votes (6%) in the local election, thus dumped out of the Council. A reflection of the disenchantment with the Green mess. It would not take much maths for the TD to realize how unpopular the GP is.

cyclopath2001

taconnol wrote: »

cyclopath2001, you are aware that they're not in charge of the Dept. of Transport?

And they failed to get DoT to cooperate with their policies?

LostinBlanch

Yoda wrote: »

I didn't hear Lee but I agree with you.

My thoughts on the matter: The Greens have a choice before them. If they are selfish, they will stick in this "government" (I can't bring myself to write it without scare quotes) to try to wring what bit of good they think they can wring.

But that is deeply selfish, if they understand the analysis that what this election has said is that people have no confidence in FF or its policies. If they were patriots, they would pull out, take the hit in the General Election, and rebuild in time.

I don't see much grey area. For the good of the country we need a General Election, not more years of reactive and thoughtless FF "policy".

I agree with you about their "selfishness" I would have hoped they'd take the longer term view but looking at the comments of Niall O'Brollchain in the Sunday Times I'm not hopeful.

“A large section are unhappy with the Greens propping up Fianna Fail and they would like a general election,” he said. “I actually think the opposite will happen now. We will hang on for dear life and try to turn things around. The parliamentary party now seems to outnumber the councillors. But if there was an election tomorrow they would be wiped out too and we would lose all our staff and close up.

“The only choice is to stay on for another three years and then face the electorate because if we pull out tomorrow we will get hammered.”

Our man in Havana

It is no more than they deserve.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

but they didn't, the greens did, and now they're keeping FF in power when the message is crystal clear that the vast majority of the people in this country want them out.

Thats not how democracies work though.
Once a government has a parliamentary majority,it stays like it or lump it.
At a guess though this government is now weak...but it's weak at the FF end because thats where the internal trouble will come from.
The greens aren't going to throw away their current opportunity to renegotiate a stronger green element to the programme for government they already have.

The funny thing about the current situation is,that it is showing up those that voted Green in the first place as not being "real green issues" voters at all for the most part.They are a floating anti FF vote.

Yoda

They should take the hammering, LostinBlanch, as patriots. In fact I'm minded to write Ó Brollcháin an e-mail. Where can I find his address>?

is_that_so

That Anti-FF always been there especially in Dublin. Look at the transfers that Gormley got from Independents, Labour and SF. They suit Labour supporters, SF, Independents and of course the "left-leaning" FG supporters.

LostinBlanch

Yoda wrote: »

They should take the hammering, LostinBlanch, as patriots. In fact I'm minded to write Ó Brollcháin an e-mail. Where can I find his address>?

Google gave me this.

Happy emailing why not do the same for all the green local govt candidates telling them the same? The TDs are only out to save their own jobs.

Yoda

LostinBlanch wrote: »

The TDs are only out to save their own jobs.

The frightening thought occurs: "Or their pensions."

LostinBlanch

Deleted User wrote: »

The funny thing about the current situation is,that it is showing up those that voted Green in the first place as not being "real green issues" voters at all for the most part.They are a floating anti FF vote.

Well since one of the Greens main policies in previous elections was about clean politics and being anti corruption I prefer to think of it as an anti corruption vote.