Green Party been Wiped out locally

Our man in Havana

Green Party hack wrote:

But if there was an election tomorrow they would be wiped out too and we would lose all our staff and close up.

So? Do they seriously think the general public will care?

LostinBlanch

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Well since one of the Greens main policies in previous elections was about clean politics and being anti corruption I prefer to think of it as an anti corruption vote.

Which ironically isn't gormley fullfilling his parties promise on by making it mandatory that county councils will need a 2 thirds majority before contravening development plans ?

Yoda

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Google gave me this.

I posted a comment. It is held for moderation.

PrivateEye

They embody everything that is wrong with Irish politics. There is nothing else to say.

cnocbui

taconnol wrote: »

I know they would be annihilated in a GE - I just am asking why people would respect them more for pulling out of government out of interest for the party.

Cnocbui - you're talking crap on anthropogenic climate change. But even if you didn't believe in it, you can't argue with energy security, stability of supply and the economics of energy efficiency.

The earth is cooling, pay attention to what the Sun is up to - or isn't, in this case.

If you want green energy that is secure and stable, you build a nuclear power plant. I am not aware that the Greens energy policy advocates that.

Wind energy is a nice idea but there is a fundamental problem in that there is as yet, no proven way to efficiently store excess energy from wind turbines, so it can be released when the wind strength is not adequate to generate what is required. This means that for every MW of installed wind capacity, you need a an equivalent MW of conventionaly generated power. That is simply not economic.

AFAIK, there isn't even a policy to construct wind turbines in Ireland for the propsed capacity that is set to be installed.

I don't have any argument against energy security, stabilty or its economic production, but I hardly think the Greens have policies which will deliver those.

Trotter

cnocbui wrote: »

Wind energy is a nice idea but there is a fundamental problem in that there is as yet, no proven way to efficiently store excess energy from wind turbines, so it can be released when the wind strength is not adequate to generate what is required.

This offers a huge potential solution to just that problem.

http://www.spiritofireland.org/solution.php

http://www.spiritofireland.org/questions.php

oscarBravo

Just a gentle reminder that there's a Green Issues forum, and this isn't it. This is the Politics forum, where we discuss the Green Party and their electoral fortunes or lack thereof.

Trotter

Sorry oscarBravo, just making the point that we do have to keep in mind that we have a lot going for us in Ireland in terms of environmental 'plus points'. We need to split the green concepts from the green party.

I'm not going to go and empty my green bin into the black one in protest at the Greens refusal to walk for example.

While the personalities in the Green party have clearly set their party back 20 years, I would hate to see us as a nation abandon our efforts to maintain our environment.

My main fear is that because Gormely and his merry FF supporting Greens have soured the legitimate efforts of environmentally aware people, there is now going to be a 10-20 year void in terms of green policies because there'll be nobody there to prioritise or implement them.

The green candidates that people voted for to implement these policies have sold their souls in their methods to do just that. While I wanted Green policies implemented, I would have been happy for it to be a gradual process and not an all or nothing kamikazee ride by the green leadership.

astrofool

While I wouldn't vote for them nationally, I was sad to see our local green go, as he put a lot of work into improving public transport in the area (and he was replaced by the yahoo's in the people before profit alliance, http://www.people-before-profit.org/node/2).

However, nationally, I had hoped they would have ended the quango's in Dublin bus, and got the metro/dart interconnector underway by now, instead of trying to get people to cycle in a hilly, windy, wet country, where bike robbery is endemic. They reap what they sow.

Villain

Ó Brolcháin on RTE saying things have to change and Green Party can't continue as they are and talked about switch across the floor for a new Government without a General Election

Dirk Gently

A pretty frank interview on rte just there with Niall Ó Brolcháin of the Green party, practically asking Labour and Fine Gael to make them an offer to cross the Dail floor. Pat Rabbit dismissed it in studio but it showed an air of desperation from the greens to say such a thing live on tv, especially with Rabbitte and lenihan in the studio.

slagger

Trotter wrote: »

This offers a huge potential solution to just that problem.

http://www.spiritofireland.org/solution.php

http://www.spiritofireland.org/questions.php

Environmental destruction on a massive scale !!!! Hell what are the greens going to do.

boardswalker

Locally in Galway, the Outer Bypass and NOB's opposition must have been a factor in his loss of seat. I know there is still resentment that he was vocal in opposition to it. I suppose its not surprising that the national media aren't aware of this subtlety.

Trotter

Is Niall Ó Brolcháin influential enough that his comments would be considered the first major crack in the party line?

irish_bob

green voters are in general of a delicate disposition( flaky bunch ) by irish standards politically , i suspect thier voters didnt have it in them to hold thier nose and continue thier support for thier coaltion with the muck savages and spivs of fianna fail

Villain

Yes Trotter is he a fairly big member, he would carry some clout

boardswalker

Villain wrote: »

Yes Trotter is he a fairly big member, he would carry some clout

He didn't have much clout with the Galway City West electorate.

Villain

boardswalker wrote: »

He didn't have much clout with the Galway City West electorate.

Very true but within the Green Party he is very respected and would have a lot of support

Macha

cnocbui wrote: »

AFAIK, there isn't even a policy to construct wind turbines in Ireland for the propsed capacity that is set to be installed.

I don't have any argument against energy security, stabilty or its economic production, but I hardly think the Greens have policies which will deliver those.

cnocbui, there are several companies set up in Ireland that help manufacture wind turbines. There is also OpenHydro in Louth that manufactures tidal turbines. Energy storage is the holy grail of renewables and there are great strides being made in this area. There is also the issue of a European supergrid. Nuclear brings it's own problems, as the Greens have pointed out.

TBH, I agree with oscarbravo & am not sure now whether it's better for the Greens to pull out or to stay in government. And I'm not talking for the sake of themselves but for the sake of the country. Investors like stability and our financial system really needs stability. I don't think a general election will send that great a signal to the international community about Ireland's political stability.

Then again, FF don't deserve to be in government after all they've done over the last few years and there's a certain arrogance that comes with being in power for so long that is obvious in many recent FF interviews.

brianthebard

taconnol wrote: »

TBH, I agree with oscarbravo & am not sure now whether it's better for the Greens to pull out or to stay in government. And I'm not talking for the sake of themselves but for the sake of the country. Investors like stability and our financial system really needs stability. I don't think a general election will send that great a signal to the international community about Ireland's political stability.

I don't think an election would affect investors minds that much, especially considering the change would not be that great, compared to European countries electing extreme right wing candidates this weekend especially.

I don't think anyone really thought the greens would gain seats this weekend, so this was really a message from the core supporters of the party. They are hugely disappointed with the way the Greens have acted in government. If they left the coalition now, they would not be in power the next time, they might lose most of their seats, but there would be a chance of rebuilding the party from the grassroots. The longer they continue in government the less likely this is imo.

Darsad

BYE BYE and good riddance to a bunch of twits

Macha

brianthebard wrote: »

I don't think an election would affect investors minds that much, especially considering the change would not be that great, compared to European countries electing extreme right wing candidates this weekend especially.

Well, I suppose that's one point of view. I do think an election is disruptive but then again, it is important for us to be on the right track.

brianthebard wrote: »

They are hugely disappointed with the way the Greens have acted in government. If they left the coalition now, they would not be in power the next time, they might lose most of their seats, but there would be a chance of rebuilding the party from the grassroots. The longer they continue in government the less likely this is imo.

This is what I'm getting at. Why are the core supports of the Greens so disappointed? Purely because they went into government with FF or with their performance once they got in?

I agree with you about them staying in government being bad for their support, I just don't think that's a good enough reason for them to leave.

leeroybrown

Trotter wrote: »

Is Niall Ó Brolcháin influential enough that his comments would be considered the first major crack in the party line?

He's the party spokesperson for 'Transport and Infrastructure'. Given the importance of this policy area to the greens he has to be one of the most important non-TD influences.

boardswalker wrote: »

He didn't have much clout with the Galway City West electorate.

It's my constituency and he was always in trouble. He lives close to both Donal Lyons (who predictably topped the poll by a mile) and Níall McNeilis (who ran a more visible campaign, was supported by Michael D and the Labour surge to help him). That will have have reduced his vote quite a lot. Cathrine Connolly will also have detracted from his vote.

In addition, the 2004 local election in old 'South Ward' was notable as no FF candidate was elected. Their electoral performance was so poor then that a slight recovery was always possible despite the national slump. As it turned out their new, locally selected and far less objectionable candidate polled quite well and got in.

To top it all off he had the backlash against the Greens and the issue of the Outer Bypass to contend with.

brianthebard

taconnol wrote: »

Well, I suppose that's one point of view. I do think an election is disruptive but then again, it is important for us to be on the right track.


This is what I'm getting at. Why are the core supports of the Greens so disappointed? Purely because they went into government with FF or with their performance once they got in?

I agree with you about them staying in government being bad for their support, I just don't think that's a good enough reason for them to leave.

Doesn't the last 2 years of the greens being in power go against everything they were supposed to be about though? I agree, being in govt with FF is probably not enough to warrant this slaughter at the polls. If they leave they aren't going ot be in the next government. But if they stay they won't be either. They need to rebuild the party after being touched by the deathly hand of FF.

Macha

brianthebard wrote: »

Doesn't the last 2 years of the greens being in power go against everything they were supposed to be about though?

How so? The Greens were always going to be a minority party and compromising along the way. I don't think the fact that they didn't achieve everything means that them being in power "goes against everything they were supposed to be about".

They have succeeded in implementing very significant policy changes. Just recently, Eamon Ryan is rarely out of the news with the announcement of another government initiative or target (electric vehicles, green procurement policies), etc. There are green job announcements happening on a regular basis.

Sleipnir

With regard to the elections, they obviously do not now represent the views of the people. Therefore, they should not be leading the people.
Democracy anyone?

Traumadoc

I agree with brianthebard, if the PDs had left the coalition in the autumn of 06 when they had the "wobble" they would still be around today. Mcdowell was seen to have lost all principles and as a result was thrown out by the people of Dublin SE.
Gormley himself will be in real trouble retaining his seat, Fine gael will run two candidates next time ( they only ran one the last time) and will win 2 seats.

Macha

Traumadoc wrote: »

I agree with brianthebard, if the PDs had left the coalition in the autumn of 06 when they had the "wobble" they would still be around today. Mcdowell was seen to have lost all principles and as a result was thrown out by the people of Dublin SE.

One of the main reasons the PDs disappeared was that they became irrelevant. Their policies were adopted by Fianna Fail and it was practically impossible to distinguish between FF and PDs.

Actually from that point of view, it would be great if the Greens disappeared (for that specific reason, ahem) :pac:

The other point to remember is that the PDs economic policies were incredibly damaging. I don't agree that the same can be said about the Greens policies.

Liam Byrne

Darsad wrote: »

BYE BYE and good riddance to a bunch of twits

You for got the word "u-turning"......if ballot papers were marked with pens instead of pencils, the ink wouldn't even have been dry when they u-turned on Tara and the abuse of Shannon Airport....and of course the "we won't go into Government with that corrupt shower....."

They got my vote last Gen Elec; never again.

Like the PDs, they abandoned everything that they'd promised in order to get their asses on seats.

holidayhere

20goto10 wrote: »

What are their policies? See if you can reply without googling it first :rolleyes:

For example, they single handedly screwed up the car industry in Ireland.
Legislation that they were pushing was coming down the road anyhow.
There is a balance between doing the right thing and understanding the broader business implications.