To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

achtungbarry

Let me make this clear, I am not saying people are not entitled to vote for whomever they wish.

Of course they are, this is a democracy after all.

(Just to clear that up before the inevitable "people can vote for anyone they want in a democracy" bit)

I am genuinely interested in the "why" people would continue to vote this party.

I want to understand the mindset of the the 24.8% who still feel that FF deserve to be in power.

Is it a case of not liking the alternative option or maybe a family tradition thing ?

Wacko

achtungbarry wrote: »

Let me make this clear, I am not saying people are not entitled to vote for whomever they wish.

Of course they are, this is a democracy after all.

(Just to clear that up before the inevitable "people can vote for anyone they want in a democracy" bit)

I am genuinely interested in the "why" people would continue to vote this party.

I want to understand the mindset of the the 24.8% who still feel that FF deserve to be in power.

Is it a case of not liking the alternative option or maybe a family tradition thing ?

"My daddy voted for them, my grandaddy voted for them and now since I am incapable of independent thought I will too"

---

this just about sums it up.

TheInquisitor

Sticking with the devil i know. What honestly would FG have done different to stop the problems we're in now? Nothing thats what.

ShooterSF

Wacko wrote: »

"My daddy voted for them, my grandaddy voted for them and now since I am incapable of independent thought I will too"

---

this just about sums it up.

Without tarring all FF supporters with the one brush I'd image this quote makes up some of their core vote.

Dinner

Many reasons. Some I'm sure voted for FF because of family tradition. But others voted because they felt that person would do the best job. Eoin Ryan might be a member of FF, but people could also think he's a good MEP.

On a local level, I see the party as even less important. People want to vote in the person who is going to get potholes filled in and streetlights fixed. If the best person happens to be in FF then I can't blame them for voting for them.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but of course FG and labour voters came to their preferences by way of rational inquiry.

Sage'sMama

Think thats bad you should see these results from Kells
http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/local/l2202.html

TheInquisitor

Sage'sMama wrote: »

Think thats bad you should see these results from Kells
http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/local/l2202.html

Come on Fianna Fail we can still do it . We'll fight them in the air, we'll fight them in the water, we'll fight them on the beaches, we'll fight them from the cliffs, we'll never, never surrender.

edanto

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Sticking with the devil i know. What honestly would FG have done different to stop the problems we're in now? Nothing thats what.

Mind if I dig into this a little?

Are you saying that no matter who was/is in government that we would be in the same situation? i.e. that our woes are mainly the result of an international situation? (aka downturn, credit crunch or massively overvalued imaginary assets crisis)

Because from your post it seems like you're saying that there's no point voting for FG because they, or anyone else, would be impotent to change things.

Which if you don't mind me saying it, suggests a very strange way of looking at politics. I mean why bother voting if there's nothing they can do?! And using your logic, why would FF be able to do anything either?

Well, thank you for stepping forward and explaining why you did vote for them. I must confess that my interest in this thread is to learn how to change your mind, so would you be open to that?

Sir Oxman

The turnout was pretty pathetic too, I would have thought with everything the public knows ( and that's probably only 0.5% of what's going on and has gone on with this shower of corrupt traitors) people would have made an effort and turned out in bigger numbers.
But no, it's Ireland - land of gombeens and armchair moaners. This is what the likes of FF count on - looks like they are right on that one.

Watch if there is a GE - just like '99/'04 and '02/'07...

Dublin and other urban areas are the only bits of the country that gave the two fingers, of that I'm very happy - the rest of the country make me sick!!!

Brian CivilEng

I voted tactically in the European elections and gave Eoin Ryan my first preference. Why? Well it looked like DeRossa and Mitchell were definitely in from the opinion polls. Only one seat left and I didn't want to see Sinn Féin get it, therefore I voted for Ryan.

To counter my FF first preference in the euros I didn't give them a scratch in the locals.

So that answer you question?

colly10

I didn't bother voting (for the first time) but if I was I wouldn't have any problem voting for FF, they've been poor but I don't think anyone else would have done a better job (and could have done worse).
I don't like Enda Kenny as a leader and will never give FG a vote while he's leading the party

mike65

There is also inertia, people who are in their 50s/60s/70s are less likely to change the habits of a lifetime.

TheInquisitor

edanto wrote: »

Mind if I dig into this a little?

Are you saying that no matter who was/is in government that we would be in the same situation? i.e. that our woes are mainly the result of an international situation? (aka downturn, credit crunch or massively overvalued imaginary assets crisis)

Because from your post it seems like you're saying that there's no point voting for FG because they, or anyone else, would be impotent to change things.

Which if you don't mind me saying it, suggests a very strange way of looking at politics. I mean why bother voting if there's nothing they can do?! And using your logic, why would FF be able to do anything either?

Well, thank you for stepping forward and explaining why you did vote for them. I must confess that my interest in this thread is to learn how to change your mind, so would you be open to that?

No i would blame the recent chaos on both internal and external factors. Internally mainly the housing crash which was always a ridiculous bubble. Would FG have stopped the bubble? I sincerely doubt it.

Secondly none of the parties really do anything for me with their policies
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055579594

However, as a point of interest if George Lee had been running in my constituency i would have voted for him, i voted for FF in the local elections but i voted for stafford then crowley in the european elections.

But i think Enda is a terrible polititian. Fianna Fails greatest advantage is Enda

KeRbDoG

colly10 wrote: »

I don't like Enda Kenny as a leader and will never give FG a vote while he's leading the party

This is the same reason if I could have voted (was out of the country) I wouldn't vote FG

Bottle_of_Smoke

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I voted tactically in the European elections and gave Eoin Ryan my first preference. Why? Well it looked like DeRossa and Mitchell were definitely in from the opinion polls. Only one seat left and I didn't want to see Sinn Féin get it, therefore I voted for Ryan.

To counter my FF first preference in the euros I didn't give them a scratch in the locals.

So that answer you question?

My dad did that for the same reason. I went with Higgins and didn't give preference to Mary-Lou. Was almost gonna give Ryan a preference but decided against it in the end as I think him not getting in would be a step toward a GE

ejmaztec

This "devil you know" attitude must be historical, which is probably why it took 800 years to get a regime change the last time. Perhaps we're in for another 700 years of misery before another revolution.

Too many people will insist on going with the flow, no matter what it costs them.

mikemac

It's the local elections OP, people vote for the person and not the party.
Though that happens in general elections too of course, lol

gambiaman wrote: »

Dublin and other urban areas are the only bits of the country that gave the two fingers, of that I'm very happy - the rest of the country make me sick!!!

Not so, our area had a FF dominated council and two FF TD's in a three seater.
In short, it's a stronghold! One junior minister too, well she was until recently.

Their vote was down 40%, a lot more that many areas. No cities or big urban areas here either.

gambiaman wrote: »

The turnout was pretty pathetic too, I would have thought with everything the public knows ( and that's probably only 0.5% of what's going on and has gone on with this shower of corrupt traitors) people would have made an effort and turned out in bigger numbers.
But no, it's Ireland - land of gombeens and armchair moaners. This is what the likes of FF count on - looks like they are right on that one.

74.1% turnout according to the RTE website.
I'd call that a pretty excellent turnout, was it higher in Dublin and the other cities?

TheInquisitor

I'll change my alligence when there's a decent opposition with a decent leader. I'd almost go labour with joan burton because i think she's a great leader for their party and well able to talk her policies and defend them except for the fact i don't agree with any of those policies. Enda takes 3 days before he responds to an attack

professore

The same reason any party branded as conservative gets lots of votes - many people do not want change no matter what the cost to themselves. I am sure that if FF brought in a policy of shooting every firstborn child in the country they would still get a vote over 20% in this country. Look at Michael Lowry ffs. Proven tax evader http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0421/1224245071062.html yet tops the poll every time.

roadwars

Can I just ask what people think any other party would have done differently from FF during the boom years?
Can you imagine how fast they would have been kicked out of power if they had said
"actually you know what I don't think we should spend our money because one day some greedy American mortgage brokers might f**k it all up for us" I'm pretty sure FG or Labour might have said thanks very much we'll spend it for you.
FF are a perfectly good party to vote for, they gave us the boom times and it's not their fault that we don't have them any more. The one thing they are doing wrong is not making the hard choice with the civil servants.

meglome

colly10 wrote: »

I didn't bother voting (for the first time) but if I was I wouldn't have any problem voting for FF, they've been poor but I don't think anyone else would have done a better job (and could have done worse).
I don't like Enda Kenny as a leader and will never give FG a vote while he's leading the party

kerbdog wrote: »

This is the same reason if I could have voted (was out of the country) I wouldn't vote FG

So just because you don't like Enda Kennys personality you'd still rather vote for a party that has brought the country to the brink of financial ruin. Sweet ****ing christ.

lgoring21

i think people were hypnotised by brian cowens lips hence the votes for ff.....:D

TheInquisitor

roadwars wrote: »

Can I just ask what people think any other party would have done differently from FF during the boom years?
Can you imagine how fast they would have been kicked out of power if they had said
"actually you know what I don't think we should spend our money because one day some greedy American mortgage brokers might f**k it all up for us" I'm pretty sure FG or Labour might have said thanks very much we'll spend it for you.
FF are a perfectly good party to vote for, they gave us the boom times and it's not their fault that we don't have them any more. The one thing they are doing wrong is not making the hard choice with the civil servants.

Thats probably my only annoyance with the government atm. Civil Servants need to suffer a cut of 10-20% of their salary with a monatary value being put on having a job for life

meglome

I was going to post a question as to why people think FF got more percentage of the vote outside the urban areas? Are people blind and stupid?

But then again I think you only need to look at the Eurovision to see how Democracy doesn't necessarily work.

TheInquisitor

meglome wrote: »

I was going to post a question as to why people think FF got more percentage of the vote outside the urban areas? Are people blind and stupid?

But then again I think you only need to look at the Eurovision to see how Democracy doesn't necessarily work.

No its called loyalty, through thick and thin

DJDC

FF along with the church and GAA are rooted in Irish society and have been since the state was formed over 80 years. While Dublin has moved onto more forward thinking progressive politics, rural areas have changed little since the times of McQuaid, DeValera etc. were running the country into the ground with their policies. FF is a mindset, not a rational choice. Just to give you an example,here is one FF'er from politics.ie:

I should start by saying that I am going to vote for Fianna Fail on Friday. This statement needs no further explanation but my intention is to offer one. I was a member of Fianna Fail when I went through college and have voted for the party in two general elections because I supported their politics and respect their history (granny's shirt was green). I consider myself a member of the party's core base. The first thing I want to outline is why I am going to vote for Fianna Fail on Friday and the second is to address other (FF)party supporters who's intention it is to abstain or vote for Fine Gael.

During the last general election campaign the two main opposition parties went to great lengths to convince us all that they were offering a real alternative but in the end trotted out similar enough policies to which the government were advocating and proceeded to lose the main debates in the week of the election. By and large all of the main parties had similar growth prediction's and arranged policies around same. The personalities in that election - particularly the performances of the then minister for finance favoured the government and allowed them to win the election. The reason the party attained power was because they had the best politicians in the country. As time progressed Bertie left us and Brian Cowen took over as taoiseach, oh and the world plunged into a deep recession. The severity of the recession coupled with our exposure to it has meant that being in government in 2009 requires a determination to reduce public spending while at the same time increasing the state income. I have heard no constructive debate surrounding alternative means of doing this. Fine Gael have wrapped themseves in a policy document that is lob-sided in favour of the carrot in a carrot and stick anology, Labour have avoided the tough questions and Sinn Fein policies are extreme. Having made these comments, it is not my intention to start a policy discussion at this time - the over-riding point I am making is that if we elected the best politicians in the country to government two years ago then that's exactly what we have in government now. Had the alternative from 2 years ago been elected I contend that they would not have been as well equipped to make some of the positive decisions that have been made over the last year.

The governments policy in relation to AIB and BOI is spot on insofar as it will allow both major banks to come through the current crisis as strong, viable and independent banks. The establishment of NAMA is not without risk but it addressess the burning issue facing the economy at the moment - credit, and is the most coherent suggestion I have heard. Criticism's of the time it is taking to produce the legislation are ignorant. The points I am making here could be argued and pro's and con's between these courses of action and different means of achieving credit in the economy from the banks will not differ hugely between NAMA/bad bank/nationalisation etc. I believe that these arguments are not the reasons so many are dissatisifed with the government - the reasons for the dissatisfaction are increases in taxation, pension levies, income levies and so on. Even a person with the most basic budgetary understanding will accept that these types of measures are not important but essential today. So if the reasons for dissatisfaction are down to peoples interpretation of how the government are balancing the books then people need to open their eyes. Who believes that an alternative government of whatever whim would be doing anything differently.

I am not speaking to other party hacks here but to traditional Fianna Fail voters - it is very easy to support a party in times of plenty but we may be experiencing a much better form of government at the moment. How difficult is it to take the decision to add a tenner onto the pension and only 8 euro onto unemployment benefit as the types of budgetary decisions we have seen over the last few years. The budgetary and strategic decisions being made over the last year are the most important decisions any Fianna Fail governemnt have made and my belief is that by and large they have got them right.

Fianna Fail are a more than a political party - they are an institution that has served this state through every situation imaginable and has always demonstrated that the interests of the Irish people are at it's core. Today the party is in power at a time when this principle towards the people of the state compels the party to implement policies that are unpopular and will increase strain on peoples financial situations. Party core voters should look past the comments of the media and opposition politicians and reflect upon the decisions the party are now implementing before casting their votes.

Fine Gael haven't changed - they were born a party of cowards and remain so - where were the current FG candidates 2 years ago when their party were faced with the difficult task of challenging a relatively popular government - lacking in testicular fortitude that's where - only to appear now when the opinion has been formed that life on the opposition benches is easy. The comments made by Fine Gael front benchers during budget debates over the last 10 years render their current mock-outrage as hypocritical a communication as you will hear.

Loyalty is a virtue - before any traditional Fianna Fail supporter decides to cast their vote elsewhere - take one thing from this polemic - the principles of our party are the same as they ever were, we are a republican party in the true sense of the word and nowhere in the true meaning of that word should running away from difficult decisions be accepted. On Friday do what you have always done, vote for Fianna Fail.

Dublin gives hope that this attitude is starting to die out but in the rural gombeen parts of Ireland the status quo of GAA, church and FF is very much still alive and kicking.

RGDATA!

meglome wrote: »

So just because you don't like Enda Kennys personality you'd still rather vote for a party that has brought the country to the brink of financial ruin. Sweet ****ing christ.

This one is a serious head-scratcher for me too. I'm not necessarily endorsing FG/Enda Kenny but I don't get why people seem to think we're electing a president rather than a party.

meglome

roadwars wrote: »

Can I just ask what people think any other party would have done differently from FF during the boom years?
Can you imagine how fast they would have been kicked out of power if they had said
"actually you know what I don't think we should spend our money because one day some greedy American mortgage brokers might f**k it all up for us" I'm pretty sure FG or Labour might have said thanks very much we'll spend it for you.
FF are a perfectly good party to vote for, they gave us the boom times and it's not their fault that we don't have them any more. The one thing they are doing wrong is not making the hard choice with the civil servants.

Well we don't know what might have happened. But Fianna Fail didn't just set up the boom they cheerleaded (real word?) it way beyond what was rational. They must have known it couldn't last, as it didn't in every other country that ever had a boom. They were just hoping against hope that things would fall off slowly, some chance. So our response should be to this monster ****up is to say sure the other lot wouldn't have been any better? Seriously I'm on a different planet to you. (Sorry if that comes across snotty, it just drives me crazy.)

turgon

roadwars wrote: »

Can I just ask what people think any other party would have done differently from FF during the boom years?

Does "proping up a housing boom" mean anything to you?

Read this post by Sand.

Cunning Alias

I voted for the individual, not the party.