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To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?
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You seem to think I would have voted FF - I wouldn't, I would have voted for any other party other than FG or FF.
Vote for any party or independent that hasn't proven they're corrupt and incompetent IMO.Deleted User wrote: »Ah sure there you go then. Proof, if ever it was needed.
There was. It was argued over and back here. Back in 2007. It's so long ago I barely remember, and thought most bar yourself had just got over it and moved on, but think expense was one issue.
Holding the election on a Thursday really made me angry at the time, I think it was one of the most undemocratic things I've ever seen in this country. I personally knew several people who couldn't vote and all bar one wasn't a Fianna Fail supporter. You can dress it up any way you like but any right thinking person will see it for what it was.Kinda, like the way you savagely turn on anyone who votes for someone you dont like?
People are entitled to vote for anyone they want. But fully supporting a party which has done so much wrong it hard for me to swallow I admit. Of course that doesn't change the fact if you spoke out against the property bubble you were ridiculed and attacked. Maybe you should address the point I made.Not just getting a little carried away there? Fianna Fail are the devil now? They were called rapists before also I think. Is it honest to exaggerate in this way?
So our childrens' children may be paying this back but I'm exaggerating, yeah right. I'm outraged but I'm not exaggerating.What about Garretts erm...... tax issues? Will you be grabbing some of that also?
I don't think I suggested that any political party was perfect or untouched by scandal, it's all about degrees. But if you'd like me to make a list of all the Fianna Fail corruption scandals just say so.0 -
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Are you honestly satisfied with Fine Gaels performance in opposition while this "hole" was being created? Didnt hear too much about this hole from FG at the last general election. Why Not?
Well as I said the government set up a situation whereby anyone speaking out against the property bubble was attacked and ridiculed. So while I would have liked FG and Lab to have spoken out more about it I can understand why they didn't. The Irish people in general really didn't want to hear we'd be on our asses if we kept going as we were, in fairness though an awful lot of people owned overpriced property which they had huge loans on. So no political party would have said too much but the government of the day could have done lots of things to deflate the bubble over several years. Instead they encouraged the bubble which was just plain crazy. No one is clean in all of this, including you and me but the people in charge of the cheerleading get the biggest share of the blame i.e. Fianna Fail.0 -
People are entitled to vote for anyone they want. But fully supporting a party which has done so much wrong it hard for me to swallow I admit. Of course that doesn't change the fact if you spoke out against the property bubble you were ridiculed and attacked. Maybe you should address the point I made.
The point you made was that if you mentioned the property bubble apparently you got savaged.
It is your own opinion that FF et al have done so much wrong and you are in charge of your vote to represent that opinion which is your right. Savagely attacking anyone for exercising their right just like you did is unfair just as attacking someone for claiming there is a property bubble.So our childrens' children may be paying this back but I'm exaggerating, yeah right. I'm outraged but I'm not exaggerating.
Fianna Fail is not Satan. Yes you are exagerating.
We are sufering from the combination of a global recession, and a property crash and a loss of confidence by investors in Ireland. The no vote to Lisbon most ceratinly made the confidence problems more acute as did gross exageration and negative hysteria in the media here and amongst others.
Fianna Fail behaved badly in government but the opposition behaved equally as badly in their role.
Their weakness was there for all to see in the last general election.I don't think I suggested that any political party was perfect or untouched by scandal, it's all about degrees. But if you'd like me to make a list of all the Fianna Fail corruption scandals just say so
Your comment about grabbing some honesty with both hands and going with Fine Gael did imply that Fine Gael were clean. They are not even close to "not perfect".
All of the major parties have let us down. Time for something new.0 -
the_dark_side wrote: »With one final push ladies and gentlemen, please can we get rid of this crowd of back-stabbing gangsters who have destroyed our thriving and successful little country for their own gain. They are with the eels at the bottom of the barrel
These are people who happily shaft THEIR OWN, never mind everyone else.
They are a cancer, a poison. Even if they did everything right now to get us out of recession, it is not worth the price of keeping gangsters in power in this country.
Unfortunately, you cannot be jailed for being morally corrupt. Well, maybe some day they will be lying on their death beds, looking back, and have to answer to someone.0 -
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Well as I said the government set up a situation whereby anyone speaking out against the property bubble was attacked and ridiculed. So while I would have liked FG and Lab to have spoken out more about it I can understand why they didn't. The Irish people in general really didn't want to hear we'd be on our asses if we kept going as we were, in fairness though an awful lot of people owned overpriced property which they had huge loans on. So no political party would have said too much but the government of the day could have done lots of things to deflate the bubble over several years. Instead they encouraged the bubble which was just plain crazy. No one is clean in all of this, including you and me but the people in charge of the cheerleading get the biggest share of the blame i.e. Fianna Fail.
Yse nobody is clean and Fianna Fail should take most of the blame I agree.
But the problem is that Fianna Fail is getting the blame for everything even the things that you or I are responsible for.
If this unrealistic attribution of blame continues it means that the rest of us minus fianna fail will not make the adaptations necessary to learn from our mistakes. a few examples
only buy things that are good value and that you can afford (and that are Irish made if possible).
Dont piss all your money against a wall
Dont expect the government to pay for everything. e.g if you see broken glass in a playground dont give out about Fianns Fail just go and pick it up.
Dont speed through red lights at 100kph and then criticise the useless government when the reports of traffic accidents are released.
Yes we all have been to blame so lets keep the criticism realistic and keep the proportion of blame correct.0 -
only buy things that are good value and that you can afford (and that are Irish made if possible).
Dont piss all your money against a wall
Dont expect the government to pay for everything. e.g if you see broken glass in a playground dont give out about Fianns Fail just go and pick it up.
Dont speed through red lights at 100kph and then criticise the useless government when the reports of traffic accidents are released.
Yes we all have been to blame so lets keep the criticism realistic and keep the proportion of blame correct.
And when we did stop pissing our money against a wall, we were considered to be unpatriotic, despite the fact that we were told to shop around. What was unpatriotic was upping the VAT rate as the UK was lowering theirs. Then Brian Lenihan announces that he was wrong to increase the VAT rate but did he do anything about it in the emergency budget? NO!
As for the speeding, they cut the funding to the advertising campaigns. Gay Byrne said that this should not happen.0 -
The point you made was that if you mentioned the property bubble apparently you got savaged.
It is your own opinion that FF et al have done so much wrong and you are in charge of your vote to represent that opinion which is your right. Savagely attacking anyone for exercising their right just like you did is unfair just as attacking someone for claiming there is a property bubble.
I think you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Encouraging a property bubble was nuts, relying on the money from this bubble for day to day speeding was nuts. So I think it was right to speak out about it and very wrong to be shouted down. When a political party ****s up in the number of ways Fianna Fail have I think it's right to shout about it, as it's all our futures that are at stake here. Democracy is often no more than mob rule but at some point I'd like to think if anyone ****s-up enough and is corrupt enough that people will not vote for them. Or at the very least have some shame or embarrassment and stop trying to defend the undefendable.Fianna Fail is not Satan. Yes you are exagerating.
I used what is commonly called a simile. But I'm not exaggerating about how much financial doo doo we're in.T
We are sufering from the combination of a global recession, and a property crash and a loss of confidence by investors in Ireland. The no vote to Lisbon most ceratinly made the confidence problems more acute as did gross exageration and negative hysteria in the media here and amongst others.
Fianna Fail behaved badly in government but the opposition behaved equally as badly in their role.
Their weakness was there for all to see in the last general election.
How the hell can the people in opposition be equally to blame for what happened, they had no direct control over it? That's just a ridiculous statement. Why is the global recession much worse here?Your comment about grabbing some honesty with both hands and going with Fine Gael did imply that Fine Gael were clean. They are not even close to "not perfect".
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe any politics is 100% honest. However I think (and hope) that Fine Gael will take the bull by the horns and do what's necessary.All of the major parties have let us down. Time for something new.
Funnily I agree, to varying degrees depending on the party. What I'm not doing is supporting or defending Fianna Fail as they have bought us to this point.0 -
i voted for them and sinn fein becuse no matter what they will always be better than the blueshirts(fine geal)0
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the_dark_side wrote: »Friends of 2 of the councillers that retained their seats were arranging to have patients transported from St. Conal's psychiatric hospital to the booths to vote.
How true is this? Because I've heard it mentioned somewhere else. Seriously, is this the truth?0 -
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paddy 1916 wrote: »i voted for them and sinn fein becuse no matter what they will always be better than the blueshirts(fine geal)
You get the government you deserve. I just wish I wasn't in the same country as you.0 -
be honest now do u think that the the blueshirts can do anybetter?0
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Your arguement seems to be if it's broke don't fix it. I don't support FF but I did vote for one of them in the locals, she is a good councillor and hard worker. By your logic I should renounce my religion because other people abused power in it.Mystik Monkey wrote: »pretty much yes.
by taking the badge of a party, then i assume they condone and agree with the policies and actions of that party. If the candidates don't share the same views as the party, then why are they a member and running for office under that banner?
if as Liam Byrne suggests a candidate who was previously FF, stood down from the party in protest, then there is a chance of my vote, obviously depending on their platform etc.
edit: btw that follows through on all parties not just FF. for example, i disagree totally with Sinn Feins policies, also any of the ragtag socialist workers party crew too.0 -
paddy 1916 wrote: »be honest now do u think that the the blueshirts can do anybetter?
I'm thinking some lobotomised monkeys could do better and would definitely be less corrupt.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Micheal Martin was arrogant in the extreme, shouting them down.
To his credit, John Gormley at least appeared to acknowledge that some of the decisions made PRIOR to the crash helped to make it worse.
Like an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, the first stage is admission - in this case admission that they CONTRIBUTED to the crash.
Until FF do that they won't have a notion as to the real reasons people hate them; they're still deluding themselves that it's because of the "tough but right" :rolleyes: decisions that they've made SINCE.
in fairness what else would he say? did you expect him to put his hand's up and say we f****d up lets have a general election
despite his spin last night, privately, he knows full well these elections were a referendum on Fianna Fails contribution to the crash. with this in mind, lets think back to Brian Cowen's bullish performance on Q+A just before the last general election. His pitch was that FF had the experience and therefore were the party to be at the helm to manage any downturn. I believe this bravura performance helped to sway a majority of the electorate to return Fianna Fail power- Indeed we had many people on here at the time saying they voted for FF because they had the experience and would soften the landing for us.
They have quite obviously abjectly failed to do so. So what i would like to know is, exactly, how they are more qualified, as inquisitor suggests, than other parties to lead us now?0 -
Meldanorama wrote: »Your arguement seems to be if it's broke don't fix it. I don't support FF but I did vote for one of them in the locals, she is a good councillor and hard worker. By your logic I should renounce my religion because other people abused power in it.
Scandals in your religion won't put you out of a job, it won't bankrupt the country, it won't make a mockery out of democracy.
You're voting for the person AND the party. So considering how badly Fianna Fail have preformed the person would want to be spectacular and the next best person would need to be terrible.0 -
Lads, is it really true about the Letterkenny FF councillors sending cars down to the psychiatric hospital to bring patients to the polling office? I'm trying to settle a bet in the office....0
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what makes you thinks that Fine geal can do better. theres a reason wht fianna fail has been in for so long!! they are doin there best give them a break.we had hard time be for. just becuse you city boys are used to the high life. we all have to make cuts.
if you want to help ireland
BUY IRISH GOODS. LIKE IRISH MEATS.MILK,BREAD AND STOP GETTING CHEAP FOOD FROM ENGLAND OR THE EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!110 -
The point you made was that if you mentioned the property bubble apparently you got savaged.
...
We are sufering from the combination of a global recession, and a property crash and a loss of confidence by investors in Ireland. The no vote to Lisbon most ceratinly made the confidence problems more acute as did gross exageration and negative hysteria in the media here and amongst others.
Fianna Fail behaved badly in government but the opposition behaved equally as badly in their role.
Their weakness was there for all to see in the last general election.
Your comment about grabbing some honesty with both hands and going with Fine Gael did imply that Fine Gael were clean. They are not even close to "not perfect".
All of the major parties have let us down. Time for something new.
The amount of shi** coming out of so called objective posters who always, always end up betraying their true colours as they seek to muddy the water and protect the party.
Such is the job of the current soldiers of dysentry.
To paraphrase above...
It is the fault of the opposition becuase they should have done something.
It is global problem.
They are all dirty to some extent.
A loss of investor confidence in Ireland is due to the people voting down Lisbon treaty.
Excuse me wouldn't you think investor confidence in Ireland has something primarily to do with Anglo Irish Bank, IN, IL&P, AIB, BOI, etc ?
Does it have anything to do with the fact that there was affecively insider trading, misleading financial markets, dodgy loans to buy CDDs to bailout high profile individauls, a complete and abject failure of financial regulatory authorities be they Dept of Finace, Central Bank or IFSRA. :rolleyes:
Might it have anything to do with the fact that Irish banks were throwing silly money around to developers to buy hugely overpriced landbanks ?
One thing that appear to link a lot of these entities, personalities and deals is ff.Yse nobody is clean and Fianna Fail should take most of the blame I agree.
But the problem is that Fianna Fail is getting the blame for everything even the things that you or I are responsible for.
If this unrealistic attribution of blame continues it means that the rest of us minus fianna fail will not make the adaptations necessary to learn from our mistakes. a few examples
only buy things that are good value and that you can afford (and that are Irish made if possible).
Dont piss all your money against a wall
Dont expect the government to pay for everything. e.g if you see broken glass in a playground dont give out about Fianns Fail just go and pick it up.
Dont speed through red lights at 100kph and then criticise the useless government when the reports of traffic accidents are released.
Yes we all have been to blame so lets keep the criticism realistic and keep the proportion of blame correct.
I am not repsonsible for any of this mess and don't dare try and lump the blame on me or all the others who did warn about the elephant in the room, and who never voted for your bunch of shysters.
Yes some Irish people borrowed recklessly and spent foolishly, but the country is not f**ked because of them.
These people are only responsible for their own debts and the economic and financial meltdown has nothing to do with their decisions. The banks are not in crisis because Johnny or Mary can't pay their mortgage or car loans.
The country is fuc*ed, because the major governemnt party of the past 12 years allowed an economy develop where party supporters, developers, builders, construction related companies/individuals and bankers ran the country to feather their own nests at the expense of everyone else.
Now that the tide has gone out we find they never had any clothes on underneath all the "fundamentals is sound" sh**talk.
Now the country hasn't a pot to pi** in.
And the thanks for that rests with FF, it's unapologetic supporters/members and their tent visiting friends.I am not allowed discuss …
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paddy 1916 wrote: »what makes you thinks that Fine geal can do better. theres a reason wht fianna fail has been in for so long!! they are doin there best give them a break.we had hard time be for. just becuse you city boys are used to the high life. we all have to make cuts.
if you want to help ireland
BUY IRISH GOODS. LIKE IRISH MEATS.MILK,BREAD AND STOP GETTING CHEAP FOOD FROM ENGLAND OR THE EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Maybe you should stop eating the infected meat and dodgy milk, because it is affecting your thought process.
BTW it is not cheap food imports form UK or EU that is really screwing our local producers.
Maybe if you wandered around a supermarket now and again you would figure out that we import from the likes of NZ, South America, Africa, Asia.
You know places far away :rolleyes:
BTW I am not from the city nor an eejit from a village.I am not allowed discuss …
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I gave a vote to them not a first preference, but one i thought would be key, oh and the guy i overlooked, my fine gael neighbour, didn't deserve to be elected. Here is an extreme application of your logic from the previous quote i responded to, if the country is being run by people you dont agree with why dont you renounce your citizenship, you want ppl to leave a party based on poor leadership...
Who is making a mockery of democracy??? democracy works when everyone is informed, otherwise you get **** people gettin in for **** reasons or no reasons at all. Make you pine for mussolini sometimes
Local government doesnt make up actual government as we see it, so the difference in candidates wouldnt have to be as large as you make out. If they were all equal i would vote for FG first then ind/lab and put socialist(labour are centre left)/FF last but a lot of the candidates for parties that i think are good were themselves ****0 -
To paraphrase above...It is the fault of the opposition becuase they should have done something.
It is global problem.
They are all dirty to some extent.
A loss of investor confidence in Ireland is due to the people voting down Lisbon treaty.
No dont misrepresent me I said that tese were also contributory factors and that the majority of the blame must rest with the government.Excuse me wouldn't you think investor confidence in Ireland has something primarily to do with Anglo Irish Bank, IN, IL&P, AIB, BOI, etc ?
Yes it has.Might it have anything to do with the fact that Irish banks were throwing silly money around to developers to buy hugely overpriced landbanks ?
Yes it has, but that is not Fiamma Fail is it or am I missing something?One thing that appear to link a lot of these entities, personalities and deals is ff.
FG would also link them so would labour.I am not repsonsible for any of this mess
Fair play to you.and don't dare try and lump the blame on me or all the others who did warn about the elephant in the room,
But nobody warned about the elephant in the room. Not FG anyway.and who never voted for your bunch of shysters.
Didnt vote FF myself. Didnt vote for the FG incompetents either.Yes some Irish people borrowed recklessly and spent foolishly, but the country is not f**ked because of them.
A lot more than some. The natural barrier of consumer discretion to curb rising prices was completely missing here. This contributed significantly to making us less competitive now.These people are only responsible for their own debts and the economic and financial meltdown has nothing to do with their decisions.
If their decision was to be something overpriced that they couldnt afford then they were contributing in a small way. The aggregate of people who did this amounts to a significant factor.The banks are not in crisis because Johnny or Mary can't pay their mortgage or car loans.The country is fuc*ed, because the major governemnt party of the past 12 years allowed an economy develop where party supporters, developers, builders, construction related companies/individuals and bankers ran the country to feather their own nests at the expense of everyone else.
That is just silly propaganda. You dont have a shred of evidence to back that up. Over 40% of the population were party supporters. Thats a rather disrespectful claim to make. But hey tahts OK if anyone even thought of voting FF its OK to abuse them and accuse them of corruption.And the thanks for that rests with FF, it's unapologetic supporters/members and their tent visiting friends
Yep thats it FF are rsponsible for absolutely everything that went wrong, no lesons for anyone just dont vote FF and everything will be OK.
Unsubstantiated rubbish0 -
ok i sorry i did not name a pile of places!!..and yes most of the cheap food in tesco comes from the uk.Thats why the farmers are protesting!!!Maybe you should stop eating the infected meat and dodgy milk, because it is affecting your thought process.
BTW it is not cheap food imports form UK or EU that is really screwing our local producers.
Maybe if you wandered around a supermarket now and again you would figure out that we import from the likes of NZ, South America, Africa, Asia.
You know places far away :rolleyes:
BTW I am not from the city nor an eejit from a village.
you must not read the lebal of your food becuse if you did you would see producted in the EU!!! i also try not to buy in supermarkets.you know buy local and row my own:D:D:D
well maybe your from a town then haha0 -
But nobody warned about the elephant in the room. Not FG anyway.
That sentence alone goes to show how far removed from reality you are. Joan Burton, Richard Bruton, Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and lord knows all the economists were talking about it, George Lee, David McWilliams etc. The ESRI were flagging it. THe OECD raised concerns as well as the EU.
The over reliance on the property bubble was being shouted about by the masses for years!
Go back under your rock!0 -
markesmith wrote: »Lads, is it really true about the Letterkenny FF councillors sending cars down to the psychiatric hospital to bring patients to the polling office? I'm trying to settle a bet in the office....
Yes, I will get you the whole story soon, Letterkenny is not my electoral area, but I know alot of people over there, Im from the Moville area0 -
the_dark_side wrote: »An Tainiste... stayed at a hotel in UAE 2 months ago for €800 per night.
To misquote Basil Fawlty, I hope at that price they put a bit of straw in the room, to make her feel at home...0 -
That sentence alone goes to show how far removed from reality you are. Joan Burton, Richard Bruton, Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and lord knows all the economists were talking about it, George Lee, David McWilliams etc. The ESRI were flagging it. THe OECD raised concerns as well as the EU.
The over reliance on the property bubble was being shouted about by the masses for years!
Go back under your rock!
Yes, but when were they talking about it? (The politicians Im talking about). They were talking about it only after it made little difference. They werent doing their job in opposition. (I would tell you to go back to your rock but Im not arrogant, self righteous and disrespectful of others opinions.)0 -
They certainly raped me, that's for sure.
Right now, I am jobless and penniless.
I am five months waiting for a dole payment. I have no income AT ALL.
Thank God my elderly mother is still alive, and I can live under her roof, and her widow's pension buys me food to eat.
Otherwise, I'd be living in a cardboard box in Molesworth Street.
Get this:
I would LOVE - I would DEARLY LOVE to take a wage cut, a tax increase, a levy, anything they could throw at me. I would love a social welfare cut of 400%.
Because right now, I get nothing at all.
FF, two-faced, lying charlatans. The devil is alive and well, and screwing and raping us all, even the ones who live in blissful ignorance of that fact.
I dont mean to pry but why are you not getting dole payments?0 -
Yes, but when were they talking about it? (The politicians Im talking about). They were talking about it only after it made little difference. They werent doing their job in opposition. (I would tell you to go back to your rock but Im not arrogant, self righteous and disrespectful of others opinions.)
Even Sinn Fein were flagging it and they arent known for the economic prowess!
- Arthur MorganThe abolition of mortgage interest relief will have a very negative impact on people who are already struggling. To make matters worse, the value of those people’s properties has fallen substantially as a result of the bursting of the property bubble. I flagged the property bubble with the former Minister for Finance as far back as September-October 2006. I said that the bubble and the consumption were totally unsustainable and that we needed to concentrate on SMEs and try to generate a proper export base rather than the artificial income streams to Revenue then prevalent.
http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2009-05-27.215.0
As for the rest of your comment, no, you have shown no sign of arrogance or being self righteous at all! My mistake0 -
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