To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

T runner

solice wrote: »

Even Sinn Fein were flagging it and they arent known for the economic prowess!

- Arthur Morgan
http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2009-05-27.215.0

Yes, on the 27th of May this year after the horse had bolted (just like FG.)

That is not competent opposition.

As for the rest of your comment, no, you have shown no sign of arrogance or being self righteous at all! My mistake

Not at all, I merely stated that all of the economic woes we find ourselves in today should not be laid in totality at the door of Fianna Fail. I did not lambast anyone whose opinion differed to my own as you did, therefore I was not being self righteous or arrogant.

K-9

the_dark_side wrote: »

Coughlan then organises 2 more candidates to run in her constituency for the local elections, Quinn and Boyle, and in doing so took votes from the other FF counciller, Kennedy, who would have been a threat to her in upcoming elections. The votes given to Quinn and Boyle determined that Kennedy (who is popular) didnt get in.

You have anything to back up why our Tanaiste would be meddling in local FG party affairs in the case of Boyle or organising an Independent councillors campaign with Quinn?

Liam Byrne

paddy 1916 wrote: »

what makes you thinks that Fine geal can do better. theres a reason wht fianna fail has been in for so long!! they are doin there best give them a break.we had hard time be for. just becuse you city boys are used to the high life. we all have to make cuts.

WTF ? "they are doing their best" alright, but IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

As for the "you city boys used to the high life" bull**** :rolleyes:


We'll "give them a break" when they give us one....a break from them and their incompetence!

solice

T runner wrote: »

Yes, on the 27th of May this year after the horse had bolted (just like FG.)

That is not competent opposition.



Not at all, I merely stated that all of the economic woes we find ourselves in today should not be laid in totality at the door of Fianna Fail. I did not lambast anyone whose opinion differed to my own as you did, therefore I was not being self righteous or arrogant.

And yet you didnt bother to read my post, something similiar to what the the govt does, not bothering to read things (think Lisbon). Ill say it again, even Sinn Fein were shouting about the property bubble in 2006!

And if you think its not competent opposition, I would love to know your opinion on what the current govt is?

Liam Byrne

T runner wrote: »

I merely stated that all of the economic woes we find ourselves in today should not be laid in totality at the door of Fianna Fail.

No-one's suggesting that ALL of them should be!

It's FF that are suggesting that NONE of them should be, and that the reason they're unpopular is because of the "tough but necessary decisions" !

And THAT'S where the biggest problem lies; we're well used to them passing the buck (or getting passed a few bucks), with zero accountability or responsibility, but at this stage either they're (a) perfectly happy to lie through their teeth like Micheal Martin did last night or (b) they can't even SEE through their own bull**** spin at this stage! :mad:

jmayo

paddy 1916 wrote: »

ok i sorry i did not name a pile of places!!..and yes most of the cheap food in tesco comes from the uk.Thats why the farmers are protesting!!!
you must not read the lebal of your food becuse if you did you would see producted in the EU!!! i also try not to buy in supermarkets.you know buy local and row my own:D:D:D
well maybe your from a town then haha

Take a walk around Dunnes where you find onions form NZ or Peru.
Given up checking where everything else is from, but you are now damm lucky to find stuff from EU.
Also don't take everything with an Irish label as gospel, since companies were importing the basic product and packing it here as Irish. That included pork and bacon btw.

No not from a town either

T runner wrote: »

No dont misrepresent me I said that tese were also contributory factors and that the majority of the blame must rest with the government.

Didnt vote FF myself. Didnt vote for the FG incompetents either.

A lot more than some. The natural barrier of consumer discretion to curb rising prices was completely missing here. This contributed significantly to making us less competitive now.

If their decision was to be something overpriced that they couldnt afford then they were contributing in a small way. The aggregate of people who did this amounts to a significant factor.

That is just silly propaganda. You dont have a shred of evidence to back that up. Over 40% of the population were party supporters. Thats a rather disrespectful claim to make. But hey tahts OK if anyone even thought of voting FF its OK to abuse them and accuse them of corruption.

Yep thats it FF are rsponsible for absolutely everything that went wrong, no lesons for anyone just dont vote FF and everything will be OK.

Unsubstantiated rubbish

Didn't vote for ff, pull the other one :rolleyes:
You protest too much and your call for evidence is the last refuge that the party members always resort to.
As you know corruption is very hard to prove, but it's consequences are very easy to see.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I know it is a duck :rolleyes:

You firstly state that government are somewhat to blame but then hammer the opposition for not doing something even though not in power.
They were not the ones setting the tax rates,
not setting mortgage interest relief for investment property,
not the ones continuing section 23/50s,
not the ones in charge of dept of finance and thus supposedly having some idea what the banking situation was like,
not the ones allowing CFDs which as we all know had intersting consequences.
Yet the opposition are to blame for the mess :rolleyes:

So you still think that the normal people, the consumers are at fault for the mess.
They did pay the high prices, but don't blame ordinary people for our lack of competitiveness.
Irish people did get carried away, bought fancy cars, took out big loans, bought foreign property and took many holidays, but are you seriously saying that
a) they were the reason that economy was primarily construction related,
b) that public spending was based on transactional based taxes from construciton and retail,
c) that financial institutions recklessly lent billions to developers.

High house prices drove wage demands.
If banks had not being so willing and regulatory authorities so inept, then we might not have had 100% mortgages, etc which might have take some steam out of the market.
Allied to that the government could have disincentivised property investment and speculation through taxes or removal of relief.
Instead they were one of the cheeleaders.
Some Irish people did clamber aboard what they thought was the gravy train to easy riches, but are you seriously saying that they were the ones that brought the house down around our ears ?
These people are responsible for their own personal messes, but not for the fuc*ing mess that is our so called economy.

Also our public sector utility companies have had a crippling affect on competitiveness of our busiensss enterprises.

Share the blame appears to be your motto, thus execusing the excesses of certain groups who were the key decision makers and key beneficaries.

the_dark_side

K-9 wrote: »

You have anything to back up why our Tanaiste would be meddling in local FG party affairs in the case of Boyle or organising an Independent councillors campaign with Quinn?

I dont have anything to back it up, just what I hear on the street. Im not suggesting that its 'our Tanaiste' is personally organising this, its the greater FF stragegists that work behind the scenes, 'our Taniste' by the looks of it in todays Independant, would be happier on another continent until everything passes...politics is a thankless job

T runner

solice wrote: »

And yet you didnt bother to read my post, something similiar to what the the govt does,

I did read your post, I didnt read all of text you linked too as it was very long indeed and I dont have time. Coul;d you please quote the relevent section?

And if you think its not competent opposition, I would love to know your opinion on what the current govt is?[/

I dont think the current government is competent but neither do I think FG have been in opposition. They were extremely unconvincing in the last general election allowing an unpopular government back in becuse the voters had nobody else to vote for.

As Ive said previously the job of TD only attracts a certain type of person. There are only 13% female candidates in the dail for example which may indicate a setup where loud, boorish talentless bufoons have a better chance of getting elected than people of genuine vocation and talent, be they male or female etc.

This problem is not confined to FF. We have incompetent government and opposition. The government must take the majority of the blame but the opposition are culbable too.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No-one's suggesting that ALL of them should be!

It's FF that are suggesting that NONE of them should beand that the reason they're unpopular is because of the "tough but necessary decisions" .... a) perfectly happy to lie through their teeth like Micheal Martin did last night or (b) they can't even SEE through their own bull**** spin at this stage!

No they are unpopular because of the financial crises, if people got that upset over lies then none of the principle parties would have fared well recently.

jmayo wrote: »

Didn't vote for ff, pull the other one

Didnt vote for them in Euro or Bye election. I gave Maurice Ahern the vote locally. I bumped into him out for a run and he gave me some advice. He was an active member and president of a well known northside running club for years. I discussed a few local issues with him and he seemed genuine in his responses. Nationally I havent given FF the vote maybe since the election after the rainbows. (Bruton was quite bad particularly on NI)

You protest too much and your call for evidence is the last refuge that the party members always resort to.

Well then I guess I am a liar!

As you know corruption is very hard to prove, but it's consequences are very easy to see.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I know it is a duck :rolleyes:

That makes you a Bull.

You firstly state that government are somewhat to blame but then hammer the opposition for not doing something even though not in power.
They were not the ones setting the tax rates,
not setting mortgage interest relief for investment property,
not the ones continuing section 23/50s,
not the ones in charge of dept of finance and thus supposedly having some idea what the banking situation was like,
not the ones allowing CFDs which as we all know had intersting consequences.
Yet the opposition are to blame for the mess

Any of the above could be scrutinised by the opposition but they were either ignorant to it or too weak.

The opposition are not to blame for the mess. But It is a mistake to lay the entirety of the blame at the door of FF. That leads us to believe that the only thing that needs to change in this country is the government which is most certainly not the case.

Share the blame appears to be your motto, thus execusing the excesses of certain groups who were the key decision makers and key beneficaries.

On the contrary laying the entirety of the blame at the door of one of the government parties excuses our own foolish actions and the foolish actions of others including the opposition whose mistakes also contributed to the current situation.

the_dark_side

too many FF apologists on this thread... friends and family I would say :pac:

Liam Byrne

T runner wrote: »

IThis problem is not confined to FF. We have incompetent government and opposition. The government must take the majority of the blame but the opposition are culbable too.

No, I'd say it's the blinkered "follow the party at all costs" lemmings who voted FF back in during the last election; THEY'RE the ones who gave FF the chance to screw us while we were all watching Bertie squirm his way through the tribunal.......

T runner wrote: »

No they are unpopular because of the financial crises, if people got that upset over lies then none of the principle parties would have fared well recently.

Nice duck :rolleyes: even with the stray quoting tags I spotted that one a mile off. NOT ONCE did I say that people were upset over lies; what I said was that Micheal Martin (and Lenihan, and Dempsey and every FF-head on the election programmes all weekend) were lying by claiming that they were unpopular over what they had done "to fix" the problem.

People aren't upset because they lied about that (although honesty would be a refreshing change); they're upset and angry because it's not true - the fact is that they're unpopular because of what FF did to get us INTO the problem, and FF don't seem to realise that AT ALL, so they'll never learn the lesson that we taught them on Friday because they're too delusional and up-their-own-arses.

T runner wrote: »

The opposition are not to blame for the mess. But It is a mistake to lay the entirety of the blame at the door of FF. That leads us to believe that the only thing that needs to change in this country is the government which is most certainly not the case.

Again (how many times do we have to repeat this before it gets through to you) no-one is saying that the international factors are FF's fault; but FF saying that those factors are the 100% cause is pure bull****. We'd be in some trouble without FF's cock-ups, bailouts, dodgy deals and corruption, but nowhere near as much.

FF's policies left us more exposed than we should have been, while their incompetence and backhanders ensured that they didn't react in time, and their bailing out bankers (with the **** whose banks we bailed out heading off into the sunset will millions each) pissed people off no end.

paddyland

T runner wrote: »

I dont mean to pry but why are you not getting dole payments?

I would happily tell you if I knew. I made applications for Assistance AND Benefit in February, on the advice of social welfare. Every two months or so, they get in touch requesting more documents, statements, etc. I can't ring them, they don't answer. If I go in, the guy on the desk says my application is 'in process,' and they will be in touch. It's over four months now.

Mary Hanafin smirking on television the other night, as much as telling everyone we would all have to suck it up. Smirking as she said it.

I have nothing to suck up. Ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances don't even merit a mention from this grotesque government. What the hell are they in government at all for, if it is not primarily for the people who put them there?

paddyland

I've said it already, but it's worth repeating over and over.

If this horror could be magically lifted from the government overnight, they would turn us all around like lemmings and lead us right back over the cliff face.

Brian Cowen has a vision of a return 'as soon as possible' to 'rapid growth.'

Rapid growth, FF style, means runaway house prices, runaway public sector, runaway cost of living, runaway government excess. With an especially big splurge just before every general election.

NO THANKS!

ilkhanid

Well said!
As to the proportion of the population who vote FF, it's not all down to old farmers from Offaly whose families always voted that way. FF have a constituency of people who have benefited from their rule.
Namely: Developers and builders,auctioneers and estate agents;local solicitors who stood to make money from cute strokes like decentralization; owners of illegal quarries;farmers who made fortunes out of rezoning and from selling sites for one-off housing;pig farmers who got the wink to expand their operations and pour slurry into the lakes;clergy who know they could rely on stalwarts like Michael Woods and Bertie to go easy on them;bankers;the cronies appointed in droves to boards and quangos;families of the above. A lot of people when you think about it.

"Small corruption (like Ahern) doesn't bother me to be honest as long as the persons doing a good job. Id rather have Ahern running the country despite anything he's done"

Ridiculous statement. When you ignore corruption it never stays small, it grows like a tumour. You start off with 'nudge and wink' merchants like 'Stroke' Fahey getting away with it, and soon you have rampant rezoning corruption a la Dunlop, Burke, Lawlor. Than the rot goes to the head as with Haughey. How do you think Italy started off? You nip it in the bid, or it will suffocate you. There is no acceptable level of corruption, no "ah, sure its just planning permission for a bungalow,just a few expenses wangled", no more than there is an acceptable level of ebola virus.

the_dark_side

Its hard not to feel angry... but after listening to one of many broadcasts on Newstalk regarding FF, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen etc. maybe we all should take a large step back for a day, and figure how we can improve things ourselves, without the dependancy on the government. Are we becoming like the English, knocking our political parties at every opportunity when things go wrong? We are supposed to be a resiliant country...its easy to pick on politicians

Party politics is not the way forward for this country, this is like the early 80's, when the outgoing party got lambasted, and the incoming party (FG) inherited the barrel of snakes, and by the time the ecconomy started to show signs of improvement, FF were right back in the door with a new bunch of promises, and everyone was sick of FG, and to be quite honest... FF and FG are pretty much the same thing

Same old story, a revolving door...

K-9

the_dark_side wrote: »

I dont have anything to back it up, just what I hear on the street. Im not suggesting that its 'our Tanaiste' is personally organising this, its the greater FF stragegists that work behind the scenes, 'our Taniste' by the looks of it in todays Independant, would be happier on another continent until everything passes...politics is a thankless job

That's a terrible slur on a FG Councillor, personally I wouldn't post stuff like that from "the street" as it's more than likely sh*te!

Pal

paddyland wrote: »

They certainly raped me, that's for sure.

Right now, I am jobless and penniless.

I am five months waiting for a dole payment. I have no income AT ALL.

Thank God my elderly mother is still alive, and I can live under her roof, and her widow's pension buys me food to eat.

Otherwise, I'd be living in a cardboard box in Molesworth Street.

Get this:

I would LOVE - I would DEARLY LOVE to take a wage cut, a tax increase, a levy, anything they could throw at me. I would love a social welfare cut of 400%.

Because right now, I get nothing at all.

FF, two-faced, lying charlatans. The devil is alive and well, and screwing and raping us all, even the ones who live in blissful ignorance of that fact.

so how do you pay for broadband ?

solice

T runner wrote: »

I did read your post, I didnt read all of text you linked too as it was very long indeed and I dont have time. Coul;d you please quote the relevent section?

Last time I do this

In May of this year, Arthur Morgan stated in the Dail "I flagged the property bubble with the former Minister for Finance as far back as September-October 2006. I said that the bubble and the consumption were totally unsustainable and that we needed to concentrate on SMEs and try to generate a proper export base rather than the artificial income streams to Revenue then prevalent."

The link to the specifc debate is here

But I will go one better for you, going back beyond 2006.

On the 30th of September 2004, Bernard Durkan, FG TD for Kildare North asked in the Dail, "if (his) attention has been drawn to the recent concerns expressed in respect of over pricing in the housing market; if he proposes to take steps to address the issues raised; and if he will make a statement on the matter". The report that he referenced was one by the IMF.

You will find the specific debate here.

Opposition parties were raising the issue of the property bubble for at least 5 years now.

T runner

solice wrote: »

Last time I do this

In May of this year, Arthur Morgan stated in the Dail "I flagged the property bubble with the former Minister for Finance as far back as September-October 2006. I said that the bubble and the consumption were totally unsustainable and that we needed to concentrate on SMEs and try to generate a proper export base rather than the artificial income streams to Revenue then prevalent."

The link to the specifc debate is here

But I will go one better for you, going back beyond 2006.

On the 30th of September 2004, Bernard Durkan, FG TD for Kildare North asked in the Dail, "if (his) attention has been drawn to the recent concerns expressed in respect of over pricing in the housing market; if he proposes to take steps to address the issues raised; and if he will make a statement on the matter". The report that he referenced was one by the IMF.

You will find the specific debate here.

Opposition parties were raising the issue of the property bubble for at least 5 years now.

Is thata ll you can find?

An opposition backbencher resonding to an IMF report is quite routine stuff indeed. That is a run of the mill do in your sleep, whos turn to reply to this report stuff.

Im talking about something to substantiate that the opposition realised that the consequences of government policies were going to be disastrous.

Because if they indeed did not realise we were heading for disaster then:

a) Who was in power made no difference, they were equally ignorant
b) Their current posture in the situation amounts to no more than politicians doing what they do when opponents are down. FGs implication that things would have been different had they been in power is dishonest. They are lying through their teeth like all the rest of them.
c) we should not vote for FG because of their incompetence in opposition

solice

T runner wrote: »

Is thata ll you can find?

An opposition backbencher resonding to an IMF report is quite routine stuff indeed. That is a run of the mill do in your sleep, whos turn to reply to this report stuff.

Im talking about something to substantiate that the opposition realised that the consequences of government policies were going to be disastrous.

Because if they indeed did not realise we were heading for disaster then:

a) Who was in power made no difference, they were equally ignorant
b) Their current posture in the situation amounts to no more than politicians doing what they do when opponents are down. FGs implication that things would have been different had they been in power is dishonest. They are lying through their teeth like all the rest of them.
c) we should not vote for FG because of their incompetence in opposition

The job of the opposition is to highlight concerns. That they did in the Dail & in various committees. They mentioned it in the Press and on television in various guises on Q&A, Prime Time and the Week in Politics.

It is not the fault of the opposition if the Government refuses to listen.

Anything I put forward you will ignore, speaks volumes as to where your loyalties lie

T runner

the_dark_side wrote: »

too many FF apologists on this thread... friends and family I would say :pac:

The OP was actually asking for replies from people who voted FF so you can hardly be surprised.

Anyway, If you dont like what someone has to say and are not able to repudiate it sure just accuse them of being an FF apologist!

This type of self righteous McCarthyism seems to be acceptable now unfortunately.

gcgirl

Pal wrote: »

so how do you pay for broadband ?

I'd say his mum More than likely !


I really think people are trying to defend the undefendable!

paddyland

Pal wrote: »

so how do you pay for broadband ?

You smartass b******

It's my brother's broadband.

It's just this sort of smartass, answer-for-everything bull**** that makes this such a pleasant country to live in.

If that's your way of supporting the present administration against all the criticism, then they'll never need enemies.

Jesus, in this world, if you fall on your face in the mud, there will always be people to stand on the back of your head to keep their shoes clean.

That's what's wrong with FF, full of these smartass I'm-all-right-Jacks. Well they didn't all, but many of them, got their comeuppance last Friday.

T runner

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, I'd say it's the blinkered "follow the party at all costs" lemmings who voted FF back in during the last election; THEY'RE the ones who gave FF the chance to screw us while we were all watching Bertie squirm his way through the tribunal.......

FG were clearly weaker in the election campaign. That was quite obvious.
Many FF voters wanted to transfer to Labour but that option was cutoff by Labours disastrous decision in the Mullingar accord. ie A vote for labour is now definately a vote for a FG government ( I was forced to vote Green). The Mullingar accord was good for FG, turning into the old FF v FG battle ensured a recovery from their previous Noonan campaign, but also ensured a FF return to power. Dont self righteously blame the people: blame the weak opposition thats what happened.

NOT ONCE did I say that people were upset over lies;

But you said this:

And THAT'S where the biggest problem lies; we're well used to them passing the buck (or getting passed a few bucks), with zero accountability or responsibility, but at this stage either they're (a) perfectly happy to lie through their teeth like Micheal Martin did last night or (b) they can't even SEE through their own bull**** spin at this stage!

FF's policies left us more exposed than we should have been,

Same policies as FG so same applies to them.

and their bailing out bankers (with the **** whose banks we bailed out heading off into the sunset will millions each) pissed people off no end.

Are you suggesting that the government should have let the banks go to the wall?

the_dark_side

K-9 wrote: »

That's a terrible slur on a FG Councillor, personally I wouldn't post stuff like that from "the street" as it's more than likely sh*te!

sorry, you are right, It was Quinn and McGinty, both who ran as independants, that took votes from Kennedy, not Boyle. Apparently alot of very angry people in Donegal because of it... but dont quote me

T runner

solice wrote: »

The job of the opposition is to highlight concerns. That they did in the Dail & in various committees. They mentioned it in the Press and on television in various guises on Q&A, Prime Time and the Week in Politics.

No they didnt, not before it was too late.

It is not the fault of the opposition if the Government refuses to listen.

It is if they dont make any comment for the government to listen to in the first place or if they shout too weakly for their voices to be heard.

Anything I put forward you will ignore,

That is not true I have not ignored anything you have put forward.
You used the fact that a FG backbencher brought up a question about an IMF report in 2006 as evidence that FG knew disaster was on the way.

It is routine in the dail for a question to be put in this manner. The fact that FG didnt make any more of it than the routine question shows that they did not know that disaster was on the way

speaks volumes as to where your loyalties lie

Yet again, if you dont like what the person says just accuse them of being a FF sympathiser. Is that the best you can do?

the_dark_side

T runner wrote: »

The OP was actually asking for replies from people who voted FF so you can hardly be surprised.

Anyway, If you dont like what someone has to say and are not able to repudiate it sure just accuse them of being an FF apologist!

This type of self righteous McCarthyism seems to be acceptable now unfortunately.

I am not a supporter of FG, or FF, or SF, or the Greens, or Labour... I am not a supporter of party politics. A suitable independant candidate is a better option in my opinion. Do not expect me to sit here and watch supporters of FF, fight their corner, after what has happened to our successful and thriving ecconomy.

I understand that Ireland is not alone in this, Singapore, Iceland, Sychelles, UK, Italy, Belgium etc. and each of these countries must also be up in arms at their governments.

It is because of what has emerged after the recent local elections that has exposed the tactics of the 'career politicians', desperate to cling to power, not for the good of the people, but for the good of themselves.

solice

T runner wrote: »

No they didnt, not before it was too late.



It is if they dont make any comment for the government to listen to in the first place or if they shout too weakly for their voices to be heard.





That is not true I have not ignored anything you have put forward.
You used the fact that a FG backbencher brought up a question about an IMF report in 2006 as evidence that FG knew disaster was on the way.

It is routine in the dail for a question to be put in this manner. The fact that FG didnt make any more of it than the routine question shows that they did not know that disaster was on the way



Yet again, if you dont like what the person says just accuse them of being a FF sympathiser. Is that the best you can do?

First of all, he posed the question in 2004 in general business. The response from the Government was to dismiss the IMF report as being wrong. Hindsight is a great thing. Instead the govt referred to a Central Bank report that everything was ok (I wonder who was head of the central bank and how did they get there?) and they also stated that they were capable of controlling the supply and demand required in the housing market. I suppose history has been their judges in that respect. They even eliminated the first time buyers grant with the promise that when they did, house prices would come down by the equivalent BUT THEY CONTINUED TO GO UP!!!!

Sinn Fein raised concerns in 2006. Again, the government just sidelined it and didnt bother making any effort.

I get the impression you dont read my posts as you ask me to state the same information twice and then go onto misrepresnt the information I put forward.

The opposition have been loud and clear on this message for many years, not just the backbenchers like i stated and referenced but also Richard Bruton and Joan Burton as front benchers.

If you truly do believe that the opposition didnt raise enough concern over this, why wasnt the govt in control of things ANYWAY. Surely with the resources they had and all the international reports and the economists in the country saying that this was a bad bad situation, why didnt they change it. You voted for the Greens, they went into the govt in 2007 and what have they done in order to curtail Govt incompetence?

Liam Byrne

T runner wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the government should have let the banks go to the wall?

Anglo definitely.

As soon as the scale of the corruption and lies within that bank became apparent, we should have been entitled to go back on any agreement.

If you were buying a company and it turned out their directors had taken money from it and falsified the accounts that you read, you'd pull out too.

Anglo serves no purpose to the general public, or even to developers in general. Only a cosy circle of millionaires.

And having banks come screaming after people for €1,400 a month mortgages while those people's tax is bailing out gambling millionaires who got to write off billions is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

By all means, give the cash to the people (and we're not talking people who borrowed way OTT here - just normal people who wanted their 2 or 3 bedroom house to live in) and let those people pay the bank with it (same money, back to the banks & developers via a different route, but at least more equitable.

And if any banks gave out 100% mortgages or more than 3 times the salary, then let them write off that portion (since that was bad business practice) and let the rest of us get on with life without having to pay off Anglo's defaulters for the rest of our lives :mad:.

poochiem

Pal wrote: »

so how do you pay for broadband ?

That's not funny, the guy has lost his job and has nowhere to live bar his elderly mum's home and no income. How can you can throw glib questions like that at him? shame on you.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

That's what's wrong with FF, full of these smartass I'm-all-right-Jacks.

I don't think that's true.

It's some glib generalisation, like saying everyone in FF quaffed champagne at the Galway Races while everyone else suffered. But FF is also full of hard working local representatives who served their communities. Some, like in my ward, gort returned with a higher vote because of it. Some got a kicking.

I would agree that a lot of hard questions have to be asked of many at the forefront of FF, and many in the current front bench.