To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

conchubhar1

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe they were just 'stupid' in the local elections for not voting FF?

lenihan is that you? :rolleyes:

conchubhar1

conchubhar1 wrote: »

lenihan is that you? :rolleyes:

Yes. Of course it is. I, Mr. Lenihan, voted 1,000,000 times for FF in the last General Election too. That's 1,000,000 who are obviously not as bright as you, so give yourself a small round of applause.

You are right though, everyone who supported FF was obviously a Lenihan.

I think I might slip out of the playground for a while while some of you sharpen up the abuse. When you get beyond the catcalls and tired one liners, and get back to the actual issue, someone PM me.

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

I think I might slip out of the playground for a while while some of you sharpen up the abuse. When you get beyond the catcalls and tired one liners, and get back to the actual issue, someone PM me.

Methinks it is getting too hot in the kitchen. Where are all your fellow FF proponents? They seem to have disappeared, too.

The 'issue' is why 24.8% gave FF the Bertie Party first preference. I haven't read any good reason yet. I will assume it is because that 24.8% include mostly people who gained personally through the accession of FF. By gain, I mean of course financial gain, either through a job, a house, a planning permission, or some other rather dubious personal aggrandisement. People who have a personal vested interest in the political party who keeps them in the standard of living they wallow in, regardless how unsustainable it is, and regardless how many other families have to go hungry to pay for it.

There are very few of the hundreds of thousands of citizens of this country who have lost jobs, homes, pensions, savings, etc. who would vote again for the political party that buggered this country.

FF the Bertie Party are very good at buying votes, at buying weak willed people who are easily sold a big house, an SUV, and a totally unsustainable Southfork lifestyle. To their eternal sorrow, it has just been realised that there isn't, and never will be enough money for everyone in the country to live like mini oil barons. In a country where we gave away the tiny bit of oil we do have.

Brian Cowen's sole forward vision seems to be to hope that this might all magically lift by 2012, so that he can hurriedly stuff enough people's pockets with money and tax breaks to scrape through yet again. It's all they know. It has nothing to do with equitability or sustainability. He even said as much. A return 'as soon as possible' to 'rapid growth.' That means a return as soon as possible to the headlong rush over the cliff face again.

Vote for more of this? Only greedy, self deluded people would dream of it. The Bertie Party have no social manifesto. It's all a big auction in the cattle market. Only so many pig's snouts can fit at the feeding trough. The rest may as well be loaded onto the wagons.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

Methinks it is getting too hot in the kitchen.

No, too childish in the kindergarten would be more like it.

Did you think the 'oh everyone who defends FF is obviously one of the Lenihans' really was a valid point? I didn't. I thought it was puerile.

paddyland wrote: »

I will assume it is because that 24.8% include mostly people who gained personally through the accession of FF.

You assume completely incorrectly.

I assume most people did it because the calibre of the candidates in their area was quite good, or at least better than the opposition. I'm from South Kerry. Paul O'Donoghue and Michael Cahill are the sitting FF Councillors in this ward. Both excellent councillors, both hardworking, both have integrity, both have great charisma and great personal votes, in fact both increased their first preference. On the other hand, one sitting FG Councillor was ousted by the electorate here. Please tell me which candidates you think were better than them if you think it was such an open and shut case that I should have voted for anyone else.

paddyland wrote: »

By gain, I mean of course financial gain, either through a job, a house, a planning permission, or some other rather dubious personal aggrandisement. People who have a personal vested interest in the political party who keeps them in the standard of living they wallow in, regardless how unsustainable it is, and regardless how many other families have to go hungry to pay for it.

That is a very cyncial way to view politics, though I appreciate it's one that you probably share with many. I know of people who were involved with FF for years and gained a good bit out of it. I know of far more who have made nothing at all. I know of many, and one or two (now) billionaires who have done well out of association with FG, I know of people who have squeezed a lot out of associating with Labour. I know of far more in those parties who haven't made a cent, haven't applied for planning, and have no vested personal interest. Do you really believe that hundreds of thousands lined their pockets or enriched themselves by voting FF? That is a terribly depressing view, I completely disagree with it.

paddyland wrote: »

Vote for more of this? Only greedy, self deluded people would dream of it.

You have evidently convinced yourself this is the reason. So please tell me, in terms of ability, who should I have voted for then? In the interests of openness I should also point out that I also voted for one FG candidate, on the basis that I know him personally and he's a nice fellow, but he hasn't crossed my palm with silver either.

paddyland

To 'cross thread' with another discussion elsewhere here, I am sure there are many reasonable FF backbench candidates and councillors around the country. However, they are members of a party which is closing down children's hospital wards, among many other rotten and unjust practices. To even suggest sending sick children abroad, despite the horrendous effects on their families, and to be a member of a party who suggests such a thing, negates any and every good and worthwhile effort they may make elsewhere. If they believe in anything of moral value, let them vote this down now. To hell with the party whip.

I'm sorry, but the price is just too high. Similarly, if every EU and world economist were to clap Cowen on the back tomorrow and tell us all he is doing everything right to save the country, that is simply not good enough from the man who was at the centre of what got us into the mess in the first place.

You might as well ask the raiders who demolished a bank in Kilkenny with a JCB and stole the ATM, to come back and rebuild the bank wall, and give them plaudits for doing so.

FF are at the centre of the ruination of this country, and their sole vision for the future is to get back to a position from where the plunder can continue. They need to be gone. Nothing they say or do now is credible.

Vote for who you like. FG would likely be no better. When FF are gone, and FG are in, and continue the destruction of the country, what happens then? When every party in the Dáil are tainted with bad practice and corruption, what is left? Anarchy? I really have no idea.

But I will never stand quietly by and see people apologise for the worst government party this country has ever known, and possibly even the whole western world.

K-9

paddyland wrote: »

To 'cross thread' with another discussion elsewhere here, I am sure there are many reasonable FF backbench candidates and councillors around the country. However, they are members of a party which is closing down children's hospital wards, among many other rotten and unjust practices. To even suggest sending sick children abroad, despite the horrendous effects on their families, and to be a member of a party who suggests such a thing, negates any and every good and worthwhile effort they may make elsewhere. If they believe in anything of moral value, let them vote this down now. To hell with the party whip.

I'm sorry, but the price is just too high. Similarly, if every EU and world economist were to clap Cowen on the back tomorrow and tell us all he is doing everything right to save the country, that is simply not good enough from the man who was at the centre of what got us into the mess in the first place.

You might as well ask the raiders who demolished a bank in Kilkenny with a JCB and stole the ATM, to come back and rebuild the bank wall, and give them plaudits for doing so.

FF are at the centre of the ruination of this country, and their sole vision for the future is to get back to a position from where the plunder can continue. They need to be gone. Nothing they say or do now is credible.

Vote for who you like. FG would likely be no better. When FF are gone, and FG are in, and continue the destruction of the country, what happens then? When every party in the Dáil are tainted with bad practice and corruption, what is left? Anarchy? I really have no idea.

But I will never stand quietly by and see people apologise for the worst government party this country has ever known, and possibly even the whole western world.

FF, FG and Labour have shown that they've no problem shutting hospital wards etc. in the past, when in power. Let nobody be under the illusion that the opposition would act differently.

Liam Byrne

K-9 wrote: »

FF, FG and Labour have shown that they've no problem shutting hospital wards etc. in the past, when in power. Let nobody be under the illusion that the opposition would act differently.

In the past, when the country had no money, and now, when the country has no money and no choice.

But FF screwed up in-between, when we had a small fortune.