To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

Amirani

I simply took the "No alternative" view on things.

Guy:Incognito

Maybe some people look beyond silly party7 voting durign local issues and vote for people they know , like and have doen good in their local community.

If your local councellor has done great work for where you live, what difference does it make what party they are alligned with? The government wasnt changing regardless of the vote, but the people you know and deal with on the ground were.

meglome

RGDATA! wrote: »

This one is a serious head-scratcher for me too. I'm not necessarily endorsing FG/Enda Kenny but I don't get why people seem to think we're electing a president rather than a party.

I did give FG my No. 1 votes in Europe and locals this time out but I'm not a huge fan of Kenny. That said you're completely right we seem to think we've got a US style president which we obviously don't. Some honesty at this stage would be so refreshing, so Kenny may not be perfect but he's way better than we've had in my book.

3DataModem

turgon wrote: »

Does "proping up a housing boom" mean anything to you?

I try and avoid misspelled sentences that manage to mix metaphors in just 5 words.

A FG/LAB coalition would have done less to prop it up but would have nothing less to prevent it.

What would they have done...
- restricted personal lending (boooo! from the populace)
- increased stamp duty to discourage speculators (boooo! from the populace)
- prevented property developers from building houses (what, and leave all those people unemployed? boooo! from the populace)

They have proven to be ineffective coalition partners with internal squabbling and jockeying for position. IMO the last FG/LAB coalition spent all of their time preparing for the next general election and ensuring their positions were secure. Proved to be a big mistake.

The only good part of any LAB coalition is R Quinn (and to a lesser extent, de Rossa).

Anyway, to answer the OP's question - I gave Eoin Ryan my no. 1 to try and keep out Higgins.

meglome

Cunning Alias wrote: »

I voted for the individual, not the party.

Which would be fine if the person is an independent. But if that person has happily and quietly followed the FF party line they don't deserve a vote.

niallsparky wrote: »

I simply took the "No alternative" view on things.

And this is exactly why we are where we are. I just don't understand how people don't see that.

DJDC

If your local councellor has done great work for where you live, what difference does it make what party they are alligned with? The government wasnt changing regardless of the vote, but the people you know and deal with on the ground were.

What I find weird is that the places where the FF vote has not suffered or even increased has been places like Cavan, Roscommon, WestMeath; places that have had the largest amount of suspect rezonings for development for residental ghost estates and cinema mutliplexes.

It seems the people in these areas are generally happy with all this incongruent development and really do not give a flying fook about their local environment. These gombeens would turn the local forest/lake into a quad bike track/shopping centre/tyre burning compound if theres any chance of making some money from it. The Irish enviroment really should be protected from these people.

meglome

3DataModem wrote: »

A FG/LAB coalition would have done less to prop it up but would have nothing less to prevent it.

What would they have done...
- restricted personal lending (boooo! from the populace)
- increased stamp duty to discourage speculators (boooo! from the populace)
- prevented property developers from building houses (what, and leave all those people unemployed? boooo! from the populace)

I'm trying to see how this would've been a bad thing in hindsight. (Is my spelling okay?)

(Long time no speak Dave)

nesf

Well, as hard as this will be to imagine for some of you, in many areas there are good hardworking councillors that happen to be FF members and these people capture votes. What has mainly happened is that councillors with less of a profile have lost seats or where there were two good councillors there was only one quota worth of FF votes to go around. From looking at results in the Cork wards, this pattern has played out a lot and marginal differences in First preference votes have been costing FF councillors their seats.

Huggles

meglome wrote: »

So just because you don't like Enda Kennys personality you'd still rather vote for a party that has brought the country to the brink of financial ruin. Sweet ****ing christ.

+1

Just want to come in on this, since when did Politics become The X factor? Why stop at personality? Lets mix it up a little bit and pick the healthiest/fittest looking fella....

see attached.

3DataModem

meglome wrote: »

I'm trying to see how this would've been a bad thing in hindsight. (Is my spelling okay?)

Definitely not a bad thing... I have been an advocate of restricted personal lending for a long time (back when I worked in a bank!).

However, all of those things WOULD have been a good idea but would have been very unpopular with the electorate. Just recall when FF put UP stamp duty for precisely this reason. People went crazy! I remember when they put the 400k+ rate up to 9%... people still bought houses.

That's the big problem with democracy... people individually think short-term and only think long-term in hindsight.

And your spelling is wonderful



(I only criticized the previous poster because they said "does the phrase XXXX mean anything to you" in what I thought was a condescending manner when the phrase as written means flip-all)



ps how'r things Gaz?

Amirani

meglome wrote: »

And this is exactly why we are where we are. I just don't understand how people don't see that.

Because there is no proper alternative.

Rosser

the only way FF can have any chance is to survive 'til 2012 and do everything necessary to turn the economy in the interim. That gives them the 'freedom' to take the tough politically unpopular decisions. So it's fix things or be wiped out and that's the kind of choice that will get the best out of any party.

My fear of a FG / Labour alliance is that they'd put off giving out the medicine for the sake of populisim

Huggles

niallsparky wrote: »

Because there is no proper alternative.

What is the alternative you are looking for?

The arguments are all the same, Enda has no personality, no alternatives etc, what a load of rubbish.

Berti Vogts

niallsparky wrote: »

Because there is no proper alternative.

This argument is pathetic.

Liam Byrne

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Sticking with the devil i know. What honestly would FG have done different to stop the problems we're in now? Nothing thats what.

That the arrogant stance that Dempsey and Lenihan have been spouting on TV all weekend, but the point is that if FG were in power, we wouldn't HAVE all of the problems that we're in now!

Yes, there's been a downturn globally, but FF were WARNED years ago that Ireland was over-reliant on construction, and did NOTHING to stop it.

In addition (off the top of my head) they've done the following:

1) Privatised eircom & Aer Lingus - core service infrastruture - without ensuring that the public interest would be served (and in fact, having kept a shareholding/vote in the second instance, refused to use it)

2) Appointed their buddies to key positions

3) Those buddies did do their jobs (e.g. Financial Regulator) yet FF pay them a fortune in bonuses and pensions

4) Helped make the country too expensive to live and work in; inflation as actually seen as a good thing

5) Condoned, facilitated and excused corruption, and looked the other way where questions needed to be asked.

6) Invested OUR money in one developers' bank instead of investing in society

7) Allowed incompetents and money-wasters to keep their jobs

So Cowen, Lenihan, Dempsey & Co need to get their heads out of their arses and see that the "referendum" wasn't on the "hard but right choices" that FF think they are making.....because it IS debatable as to whether anyone could do any better.

The referendum is on the part that FF played in landing us in deeper **** than we would otherwise have been in.

Lenihan even tried today to imply that European institutions had "approved of" the Government's approach, and tried to use that as justification. He had to be reminded that there's a HUGE difference between "approved" and "approved of" - all the institutions did was go through them and indicate that they were happy that they were legal....i.e. they "approved" them - they didn't offer an opinion as to whether they "approve of them.

Of course, when you read as little as Lenihan does, it's not surprising that you're thick as two short planks, and assume that everyone else is as well.

Shower of arrogant, out-of-touch idiots!

So to the 24.8% - thanks; I hope you get the Government (local and national) that you deserve, as described in the above 7 FACTS.

The rest of us, however, deserve better, because we're not fools.

And hopefully 75.2% of the public will have their say. Bring on a general election soon, so that we can rid ourselves of this shower!

As for the brain-dead "vote-this-way regardless" brigade.......that's summed up in the fact that RTE's exit poll showed 88% unhappy with the Government's performance.....and that means that 13% of people who are unhappy with them still voted for them!:rolleyes:

Huggles

Rosser wrote: »

My fear of a FG / Labour alliance is that they'd put off giving out the medicine for the sake of populisim

Open to correction but I believe both parties above stated there intentions to run as independent parties in a possible General Election, hence no coalitions if can be avoided.

Amirani

Huggles wrote: »

What is the alternative you are looking for?

The arguments are all the same, Enda has no personality, no alternatives etc, what a load of rubbish.

Somebody who has policies to offer, rather than the whole "we're not Fianna Fail" rubbish. Labour does this but they're never going to accumulate enough to lead a coalition Government.

meglome

niallsparky wrote: »

Because there is no proper alternative.

I'm just wondering if you had a this lovely looking dog, the nicest dog in the whole area. Now the dog would nip at you all the time and sometimes it would savage you. Do you send the dog for retraining? do you just ignore the savaging? Maybe the dog is just bad and can't be changed so you need to move on?

meglome

niallsparky wrote: »

Somebody who has policies to offer, rather than the whole "we're not Fianna Fail" rubbish. Labour does this but they're never going to accumulate enough to lead a coalition Government.

Didn't FG put forward a detailed plan for job creation?

Danno

DJDC wrote: »

Dublin gives hope that this attitude is starting to die out but in the rural gombeen parts of Ireland the status quo of GAA, church and FF is very much still alive and kicking.

What sort of gombeen are you? Not everybody in the countryside voted FF. What is your issue with the GAA? The GAA have nothing to do with the elections.

What is your alternative? Move everyone into cities, turn them in to Maan Uuu or Liverpoool jersey wearing lager louts? That'd be great, wouldn't it?

PS. Great run by the hurlers against the glensmen at the moment - things are changing alright. Maybe them FF Meath boyos from Kells will win against the bogball boys from the big shmoke after 4pm???

Huggles

niallsparky wrote: »

Somebody who has policies to offer, rather than the whole "we're not Fianna Fail" rubbish. Labour does this but they're never going to accumulate enough to lead a coalition Government.

I very much doubt that FG or Labour have ever said vote for us we are not FF!

Seriously the ignorance is astounding. I've done the first step for you, now you actually have to read it.

http://www.finegael.org/policy/

Newaglish

TheInquisitor wrote: »

No its called loyalty, through thick and thin

Seriously, they're not your family. You don't have to be loyal to them. They're not loyal to you.

Huggles

Newaglish wrote: »

Seriously, they're not your family. You don't have to be loyal to them. They're not loyal to you.

Spot on. I can't believe after everything FF have done in the last 6 months to protect there builder and banker mates - this attitude is still around.

Liam Byrne

roadwars wrote: »

"actually you know what I don't think we should spend our money because one day some greedy American mortgage brokers might f**k it all up for us"

What the f**k do American mortgage brokers have to do with the directors of Anglo Irish giving out money stupidly, under the "watchful" eye of the Government-appointed Financial "Regulator", hiding the types of loans and giving themselves dodgy loans ?

What the f**k do they have to do with the fact that Brainless Lenihan agreed to bail them out without reading the f**king report that showed what they were up to and that they were a millstone and should be shunned ?

What the f**k do they have to do with the fact that they've since had to pay in more of OUR money ?

What the f**k do they have to do with the fact that none of those directors have been taken to task, and some of them got bonuses and payoffs with our money, even though without OUR money there would have been no money to pay out ?

And even though this is only ONE issue, it's a €5.8 BILLION issue; it's almost half of the reason we're currently screwed.

So get your head out of the sand, ffs! For someone whose name is "TheInquisitor" you don't seem to want to look into the facts very much, preferring to toe the idiotic, false and downright insulting line that all of this crap is down to global economics.....

Maybe HALF of it is, but the other half is cronyism, corruption, incompetence, lack of accountability and arrogance,

DJDC

What sort of gombeen are you? Not everybody in the countryside voted FF. What is your issue with the GAA? The GAA have nothing to do with the elections.

My point was that FF (and also FG) are entrenched in traditional Irish society and that this trait has remained strong in rural areas. This is proved by the fact that FF and FG absolutely dominate politics in these areas. I used the GAA and the church as examples of other entities that are engrained into the rural mindset. Of course I am making generalisations but it still holds true for vast swathes of rural Ireland.

Rosser

Huggles wrote: »

Open to correction but I believe both parties above stated there intentions to run as independent parties in a possible General Election, hence no coalitions if can be avoided.

Neither party will have the numbers for a majority so coalition is the only choice and that could yet be Labour / FF

nesf

DJDC wrote: »

My point was that FF (and also FG) are entrenched in traditional Irish society and that this trait has remained strong in rural areas. This is proved by the fact that FF and FG absolutely dominate politics in these areas. I used the GAA and the church as examples of other entities that are engrained into the rural mindset. Of course I am making generalisations but it still holds true for vast swathes of rural Ireland.

It's more that none of the other parties have political machinery in rural Ireland. There was (and still is) no Labour presence where I grew up. In the next General election, Cork North West, which where I'm originally from will probably return 2 FG and 1 FF versus the current 2 FF and 1 FG because those are the only two options available to the people of the area. Labour run a perennial candidate but never really make an effort or spend much money and Sinn Fein don't even bother running a candidate.

It's as much about there being **** all choice except for FG and FF in rural Ireland as anything else. If Labour started running well funded campaigns in rural areas in the next General they probably could pick up a few seats but they'd have to build a local political machine from scratch after decades of neglect which makes it unlikely to happen.

Danno

DJDC wrote: »

My point was that FF (and also FG) are entrenched in traditional Irish society and that this trait has remained strong in rural areas. This is proved by the fact that FF and FG absolutely dominate politics in these areas. I used the GAA and the church as examples of other entities that are engrained into the rural mindset. Of course I am making generalisations but it still holds true for vast swathes of rural Ireland.

On my Local vote sheet, I gave the only Labour candidate my No.2 after giving my No.1 to FG - a good councillor who deserves to keep his seat.

I wish Labour and other parties would make the effort to recruit more candidates in the rural areas. SF seem to be out in front of Labour in recruiting in rural areas.

In many rural areas there is just FF and FG in droves with the odd SF or Labour candidates here and there. There were more posters for Gilmore than my local labour chap around town!!!

The gombeens are the parties, not the voters!

Sir Oxman

mikemac wrote: »

74.1% turnout according to the RTE website.
I'd call that a pretty excellent turnout, was it higher in Dublin and the other cities?

Nationally, 57.4% turnout in the locals.

Even with that, the lower turnout in 2 of the Dublins routed the Party of the Corrupt (and their green lackeys)

Boston

Wacko wrote: »

"My daddy voted for them, my grandaddy voted for them and now since I am incapable of independent thought I will too"

---

this just about sums it up.

This quote sums it up. Not the content of the quote but rather the attitude behind it, that this could be the only possible reason people have for voting FF, therefore, don't even bother to change opinions. I vote FF in the European and local elections, the reason being that the FF I voted for is first and foremost a good councillor and does the job well, so why wouldn't I vote for him. I voted FF in the MEP elections because the other candidates where either euro sceptic, had profile or claimed to do things I didn't believe was part of the MEP job descriptions.

Now I'm just the oppositions parties, rather then addresses the problems in their own policies which would make them more attractive to me, will simply label me a staunch FF supporter and not care about what I care about, thus they will won't get my vote.

It's all a little too backwards.