To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

Ardent

colly10 wrote: »

Yes im an idiot because I will not vote someone who I dislike in as taoiseach of this country :rolleyes:

That was the least of the mind-boggingly stupid statements in your post.

oscarBravo

colly10 wrote: »

Yes im an idiot because I will not vote someone who I dislike in as taoiseach of this country :rolleyes:

I've dealt with the insult directed at you, but the criticism of your position is valid. You are defending a vote for an objectively catastrophic government on the grounds that there's a possibility the alternative might have been as bad.

"I drink coffee - I can't stand the taste of it, it makes me physically sick. But what if another drink was just as bad? I'll stick to coffee, thanks."

nacho libre

Elmo wrote: »

In fairness that isn't corruption a Government is well within its right to provide all of the above services. I am sure FG would have run with similar policies. We even saw at the 2007 election that both FG and Labour where planning to spend based on figures provided by the Dept of Finance. I amn't defending the policies of FF but they are not much different to those of FG. And lets face it people where only to happy to continue with FF in government. TBH I have no sympathy.

if this is the case then should it not be the civil servants within the finance department that the people of this country should be directing their ire? they are the experts who should have forseen the Fianna Fail policies on the economy were a recipe for disaster and advised the minister for finance accordingly at the time. I wonder when Cowen was being bullish on q+a what advice he had gotten from the ministry of finance bigwigs?
did they (a) mislead him
(b) express misgivings and he ignored them
(c) or was it that they were not aware of how bad things were going to get.

bmaxi wrote: »

One thing that needs to be brought home to FG, Labour and the rest is, the public will not stand for any more corruption and their tenure in Government will be very short lived if they don't clean up the system.

i wish this were true about cleaning up the system and solely electing people with principles, but it doesn't seem to be too much of a concern when people like Jim-i-love my-expenses-Higgins get voted in again. Also, when others candidates who voted against the publication of the cashman report have been re-elected. if you are a honest politician with nothing to be ashamed of why would you be against the release of this report?

Brolly

I vote for Fianna Fáil because they are the best party for Government...I ain't gonna justify why I think that because it will never be good enough justification for many people! Needless to say, I am proud to support Fianna Fáil and I will never hide that!

Liam Byrne

colly10 wrote: »

It would be hard for them to be corrupt now in fairness, they may be when they get into power.

Inncoent until proven guilty ?

colly10 wrote: »

Small corruption (like Ahern) doesn't bother me to be honest as long as the persons doing a good job. Id rather have Ahern running the country despite anything he's done

You obviously have a different definition of "a good job" to me! Even if I agreed with you that "small" corruption is acceptable (it's not, and it wasn't small) then Ahern's mismanagement of his own accounts and the accounts of the country, his nepotism, as well as his ego projects like the "Bertie Bowl" would prove to me that the "good job" factor doesn't even come into the equation.

colly10 wrote: »

I just have no time for Kenny and would hate the thought of him running the country

And that's stunning in the extreme!

1) You say yourself that Bertie is corrupt, but excuse it on the basis that (in your view) it's "small", despite all the explained-five-different-ways cash and nepotism and the fact that one of the country's greatest ever crooks - Haughey - described him as "the most cunning and devious of them all.

2) You make the assumption that FG would be corrupt if they were given power (whatever about the odd bad apple, I don't think corruption could POSSIBLY be facilitated and condoned as much as it has been within FF)

And despite BOTH of those you "hate the thought of [Kenny] running the country", and would prefer the cute-hoor/con-man Bertie!

No wonder the country's in the state it's in! :rolleyes:

Elmo

nacho libre wrote: »

if this is the case then should it not be the civil servants within the finance department that the people of this country should be directing their ire? they are the experts who should have forseen the Fianna Fail policies on the economy were a recipe for disaster and advised the minister for finance accordingly at the time. I wonder when Cowen was being bullish on q+a what advice he had gotten from the ministry of finance bigwigs?
did they (a) mislead him
(b) express misgivings and he ignored them
(c) or was it that they were not aware of how bad things were going to get.

But this is not Corruption it is policy. Corruption is when your polices are paid for by people with money. e.g. Ray Burke and Century Radio.

I think during the boom years we all thought that it would last. so he could have done A, B or C and he still wouldn't be corrupt. All ministers will have advisors and civil servant to tell them what to do.

I don't vote FF, but I took up the SSIA.

sofia11

To the 24.8% be happy with further tax hikes, levies, cuts to social welfare, basically the 'little people' suffer again. For the rest of us who didn't give FF our first preference can we be exempt from further taxes,levies...... I wish!

Elmo

sofia11 wrote: »

To the 24.8% be happy with further tax hikes, levies, cuts to social welfare, basically the 'little people' suffer again. For the rest of us who didn't give FF our first preference can we be exempt from further taxes,levies...... I wish!

You may say the exact same for FG.

Yoda

Elmo wrote: »

Well voting FG and giving them a golden spoon doesn't show that.

That's some metaphor. What do you mean by "a golden spoon"?

Brolly

sofia11 wrote: »

To the 24.8% be happy with further tax hikes, levies, cuts to social welfare, basically the 'little people' suffer again. For the rest of us who didn't give FF our first preference can we be exempt from further taxes,levies...... I wish!

And what exactly would any other party being doing if in Government? Sure why don't we just lower taxes, increase spending and say "F*ck it, we'll be grand!":rolleyes:

Joey the lips

Becuase its not the 24 % that gave there vote is the problem its the massive amount of people that failed to turn out because of stupid reasons like, My hair was wet or my runners were dirty of wtf!

I commend the 24% of fianna failure people. They are there supporters and loyal.

The Mad Hatter

brolly wrote: »

I vote for Fianna Fáil because they are the best party for Government...I ain't gonna justify why I think that because it will never be good enough justification for many people! Needless to say, I am proud to support Fianna Fáil and I will never hide that!

Any justification would be nice.

kippy

Read the first two posts on this thread and not the rest but I assume this has already been said.
Theres a FF guy at home. Got in to the council via the local elections last time round. He did some unreal work on the ground for the people who voted for him. Pushed hard for various infrastructure funding, got the ball rolling on a large amount of infrastructural projects, mostly small local scale but stuff that had to be done. He's also helping local people get settled in their area, helping them with planning and other such issues. He walked in again this time. Fair play to him, he does work for the local people who he represents. Thats what local politics is about. He didnt get in cos he was FF, he got in cause he has a track record of getting things done. Thats what local politics should be all about.
National politics should be a different ball game (national interest overtaking those of those who vote for you etc...)
I ALWAY vote for the candidate who I believe will do the best job no matter what party.

Ardent

brolly wrote: »

I am proud to support Fianna Fáil and I will never hide that!

You are proud to support them because...?!

Liam Byrne

Elmo wrote: »

You may say the exact same for FG.

You may, because FG will have to do at least SOME of the same things in order to get us out of the mess that FF have created.

But having said that, FG at least appear to have the cop-on that increasing VAT and driving shoppers over the border is not sensible.

Plus, who would you trust with moving forward ? The idiots that created the mess or the people who - had the electorate not fallen for the bull**** the last time out - might have heeded the early warnings, or avoided the self-inflicted aspects of it, or might have avoided signing up to bail out corrupt bank directors - and left us with ONLY the "international" stuff that FF seem to be keen to blame ALL of our economic issues on ?

Yoda

brolly wrote: »

I vote for Fianna Fáil because they are the best party for Government...I ain't gonna justify why I think that because it will never be good enough justification for many people! Needless to say, I am proud to support Fianna Fáil and I will never hide that!

Political parties are not football teams. One may support a team because they are local to the area, or because one likes the colour of their uniforms. The wins or losses of a football team are of little consequence. Few are harmed whether a match goes one way or the other.

You say they are the "best party for Government". Why? You must have reasons. Do you think that FF politicians are more intelligent than those of other parties? Better educated? Better trained? Nicer? More attractive? Richer? More honest? Do you believe that their fiscal policies make sense for the country? That they had nothing to do with feeding the property boom irresponsibly? That they lack corruption, or that their corruption is benign and good for the country?

If you aren't going to justify your opinions on a discussion forum, or at least discuss them, there's really very little point in telling anyone what they are.

Unless you do, I can't see any reason for you to be proud of your support for them, unless it is shallow support such as one gives for a football team.

Brolly

Ardent wrote: »

You are proud to support them because...?!

Because I am!:rolleyes:;) I know my local TD's etc quite well and they are great workers for us. That and I have always believed that Fianna Fáil are the best party. I know not many will agree with me, but that doesn't change my view on the party.

Elmo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You may, because FG will have to do at least SOME of the same things in order to get us out of the mess that FF have created.

But having said that, FG at least appear to have the cop-on that increasing VAT and driving shoppers over the border is not sensible.

Reading David McWilliams in the Indo he seems to think that the more you say we can spend our way out of the recession doesn't mean it will actually happen.

I agree with you and him. I think the 3 budgets were a mess.

But I do not think that the policies of FG will actually help the economy. And I think that the swing towards FG is a like going around around about only to get off in the same direct. <<< look a political road map and metaphor.

Going forward ah more like not moving at all.

I don't like either Mr. Cowen or Mr. Kenny.

Elmo

brolly wrote: »

Because I am!:rolleyes:;) I know my local TD's etc quite well and they are great workers for us. That and I have always believed that Fianna Fáil are the best party. I know not many will agree with me, but that doesn't change my view on the party.

You're allowed no need to explain it is your right to vote as you see fit.

Lets face it everyone vote for them in 2007.

And I was asking the same question back then anyone want to answer me now?

TOLD YOU SO

gcgirl

brolly wrote: »

Because I am!:rolleyes:;) I know my local TD's etc quite well and they are great workers for us. That and I have always believed that Fianna Fáil are the best party. I know not many will agree with me, but that doesn't change my view on the party.

So you know Mary well do you ?? Well what do you expect from Donegal??

Elmo

gcgirl wrote: »

So you know Mary well do you ?? Well what do you expect from Donegal??

You know that people right across the country George Lee well too. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Elmo wrote: »

Lets face it everyone vote for them in 2007.

Not everyone. Some of us saw through the bull****.

Brolly

Yoda wrote: »

Political parties are not football teams. One may support a team because they are local to the area, or because one likes the colour of their uniforms. The wins or losses of a football team are of little consequence. Few are harmed whether a match goes one way or the other.

You say they are the "best party for Government". Why? You must have reasons. Do you think that FF politicians are more intelligent than those of other parties? Better educated? Better trained? Nicer? More attractive? Richer? More honest? Do you believe that their fiscal policies make sense for the country? That they had nothing to do with feeding the property boom irresponsibly? That they lack corruption, or that their corruption is benign and good for the country?

If you aren't going to justify your opinions on a discussion forum, or at least discuss them, there's really very little point in telling anyone what they are.

Unless you do, I can't see any reason for you to be proud of your support for them, unless it is shallow support such as one gives for a football team.

I vote Fianna Fáil primarily because of the local candidates we have, the quality of our local TD's and because I think they are doing their very best in a difficult time to get employment etc back to Ireland. As for your points on honesty and being well educated, I believe many of them are. Every party has a level of dishonesty etc from some of their politicians. I wish there was complete honesty, but we have to be realistic! I don't consider my support for Fianna Fáil to be shallow...its just not that easy to make justifications when the majority of fellow posters are anti-FF!

Elmo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not everyone. Some of us saw through the bull****.

And ye vote for Shay, where is Mary when you need her?

Liam Byrne

Elmo wrote: »

And ye vote for Shay, where is Mary when you need her?

Who the hell are Shay and Mary ?

Elmo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Who the hell are Shay and Mary ?

Mary the local FFer we all know and her son Shay (Brennan)

It is bad when you have to explain your jokes

Liam Byrne

Elmo wrote: »

Mary the local FFer we all know and her son Shay (Brennan)

It is bad when you have to explain your jokes

Couldn't see the joke - you implied that I'd voted for them.

Elmo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Couldn't see the joke - you implied that I'd voted for them.

Yeah the implication was the joke since I knew you didn't

I think I might head back to broadcasting. :cool:

Brolly

gcgirl wrote: »

So you know Mary well do you ?? Well what do you expect from Donegal??

I do and she is working very hard to create employment etc here in Donegal as in the rest of the Country.

Elmo

brolly wrote: »

I do and she is working very hard to create employment etc here in Donegal as in the rest of the Country.

Oh! no! Retreats quickly!