To the 24.8% who gave Fianna Fail a first preference: Why ?

irishgrover

DJDC wrote: »

My point was that FF (and also FG) are entrenched in traditional Irish society and that this trait has remained strong in rural areas. This is proved by the fact that FF and FG absolutely dominate politics in these areas. I used the GAA and the church as examples of other entities that are engrained into the rural mindset. Of course I am making generalisations but it still holds true for vast swathes of rural Ireland.

err yes, and Labour and Joe Higgins did so well in Dublin because they are more likely maintain and increase social welfare payments, methadone clinics, and other nanny state freebies that mean Dubs don't have to work for a living etc which is really all modern forward thinking Dublin people are interested in....oops maybe I'm making a stupid generalisation...

Elmo

Also their are parts of the country that don't have Labour running.

Boston

irishgrover wrote: »

err yes, and Labour and Joe Higgins did so well in Dublin because they are more likely maintain and increase social welfare payments, methadone clinics, and other nanny state freebies that mean Dubs don't have to work for a living etc which is really all modern forward thinking Dublin people are interested in....oops maybe I'm making a stupid generalisation...

Joe Higgins isn't in the Dail, he has no say over things like social welfare.

irishgrover

Boston wrote: »

Joe Higgins isn't in the Dail, he has no say over things like social welfare.

sorry, I was making silly generalizations about the EU elections that 1.3 million people voted in, as opposed to the by-elections that 80,000 dubs voted in....

but, yes, you are right: Joe is heading to the EU, and just to be clear, I was not serious, I was making stupid generalisations

Pal

Elmo wrote: »

Eoin Ryan can't oust people in an election. That is up to the electorate, and he was ousted.

Not really

I'm not explaining a third time.

Daroxtar

achtungbarry wrote: »

Let me make this clear, I am not saying people are not entitled to vote for whomever they wish.

Of course they are, this is a democracy after all.

(Just to clear that up before the inevitable "people can vote for anyone they want in a democracy" bit)

I am genuinely interested in the "why" people would continue to vote this party.

I want to understand the mindset of the the 24.8% who still feel that FF deserve to be in power.

Is it a case of not liking the alternative option or maybe a family tradition thing ?

I voted fianna fail for a very simple reason. The fianna fail councillor in my area has done a lot of good work with the roads, schools and water treatment and has proven himself as a decent hard working man. Its daft to confuse the failings of national government with the hard work of decent local men and women. I voted for the man, he just happens to be FF

meglome

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0608/rating.html

Irish credit rating is lowered again
Monday, 8 June 2009 13:06

The credit rating agency Standard & Poor's has again lowered its rating for Ireland. A lower credit rating usually makes borrowing more expensive for a country.

Standard & Poor's said it had lowered Ireland's rating from AA+ to AA because it believed the costs to the Government of supporting the banking system would be 'significantly' higher than it expected in March. At that time, S&P lowered Ireland's top AAA rating to AA+.

The agency said that, as a result of measures taken to deal with the banking crisis, the country's debt burden would be much higher in the coming years.
Advertisement

The Government borrows money on the international bond market to meet its day-to-day spending needs. The interest rate it pays is dependent on how risky Ireland is perceived, and this is gauged by ratings agencies like S&P.

S&P analyst David Beers said the change in the rating came after Anglo Irish Bank's recent results and the emergence of more details on the plan to set up a National Asset Management Agency to clean up banks' balance sheets.

S&P said the outlook was negative, which means the agency believes there is a risk that the rating could be downgraded again. Mr Beers warned that the rating could be lowered again if bank assets deteriorated further or the Government fell short of budgetary targets. But the analyst also said the outlook could be changed if the banks stabilised more quickly than expected.

S&P said NAMA's ability to minimise the cost to the Government of its operations was uncertain, as there was a risk that the value of the assets it took on could fall.

The agency has also raised its estimate of the cost of recapitalising the banks to a range of €20 billion to €25 billion.

As a result, S&P now believes Ireland's net government debt could top 100% of gross domestic product, or economic output, over the medium term.

Another ratings agency, Fitch, cut Ireland's rating from AAA to A- in April, while Moody's warned in April that it could lower its AAA rating within three months.

The Department of Finance, in a statement, pointed out that Ireland had already successfully raised €13 billion this year on the international debt market. Meanwhile, NCB economist Brian Devine said the downgrade was no surprise and further downgraded were likely to bring ratings into line with where Irish bonds are trading on the markets.

Enjoy...

meglome

Daroxtar wrote: »

I voted fianna fail for a very simple reason. The fianna fail councillor in my area has done a lot of good work with the roads, schools and water treatment and has proven himself as a decent hard working man. Its daft to confuse the failings of national government with the hard work of decent local men and women. I voted for the man, he just happens to be FF

So if the party he toes the line for ****-up the country, you do what? Send him a strongly worded letter? Ask him nicely if he wouldn't mind asking his colleagues and their cronies to stop raping the country?

Daroxtar

meglome wrote: »

So if the party he toes the line for ****-up the country, you do what? Send him a strongly worded letter? Ask him nicely if he wouldn't mind asking his colleagues and their cronies to stop raping the country?

No, i'll be too busy writing to the stockbrokers, bankers and investment managers asking them to sort out my potholes to badger a former national school teacher into fixing the global recession.

LostinBlanch

HAven't bothered reading the thread, but the only reason I could think of giving my number 1 to FF would be in the case of Pat the Cope in Donegal, voting him in means that's another by election that FF have to fight.

Mind you they'll probably try and stall that for a year or so! :mad:

Mark200

Didn't read through the 17 pages but I just want to say that I gave Eoin Ryan my number 1 vote because I think the EU is completely fine the way it is. There's no point voting in someone unexperienced to deal with the EU just because the Fianna Fail TDs are doing a bad job.

meglome

Daroxtar wrote: »

No, i'll be too busy writing to the stockbrokers, bankers and investment managers asking them to sort out my potholes to badger a former national school teacher into fixing the global recession.

I have no idea why anyone would even consider asking their local TD to try to fix the global recession. However I can see any number of reasons to ask them how they suggest we fix the local recession, you know the one their party created by following bull**** economic policies. Even the blind, deaf and mute Fianna Fail'ers out there should have noticed the ****e we're in thanks to their party.

gcgirl

meglome wrote: »

I have no idea why anyone would even consider asking their local TD to try to fix the global recession. However I can see any number of reasons to ask them how they suggest we fix the local recession, you know the one their party created by following bull**** economic policies. Even the blind, deaf and mute Fianna Fail'ers out there should have noticed the ****e we're in thanks to their party.

This annoys the crap out of me !! We are basically a country that relied on stamp duty to keep us in business!! Have you seen any other country do that??

Elmo

meglome wrote: »

So if the party he toes the line for ****-up the country, you do what? Send him a strongly worded letter? Ask him nicely if he wouldn't mind asking his colleagues and their cronies to stop raping the country?

Should he leave the party? I think if you have a good councilor then you should vote for them regardless of the party.

Of course I was nearly convinced by one FG councilor to vote for them because it was a local election and not a general election (after I said they aren't much different to FF). I said ok I think about it so. A few days later I got a leaflet from her telling us why not to vote for FF because of the record in government. While it didn't make me go off voting for FF, I was thinking for such an old woman she can certainly lie, hence she didn't get my vote.

Bobeagleburger

I know people that complain constantly about the state of the country and how it is ran etc and still voted for FF on friday !!:rolleyes:

Personally I wouldnt vote FF or FG as I don't see much difference between them. Their idealogies are very similar

Liam Byrne

Elmo wrote: »

Should he leave the party? I think if you have a good councilor then you should vote for them regardless of the party.

Why should it be our responsibility to overlook their stupidity ?

Elmo wrote: »

A few days later I got a leaflet from her telling us why not to vote for FF because of the record in government. While it didn't make me go off voting for FF, I was thinking for such an old woman she can certainly lie, hence she didn't get my vote.

Jaysus! Really ? I wouldn't have voted for her either in that scenario! :eek:

I mean, there's plenty of ACTUAL reasons not to vote for FF without having to make up any more (she'd have needed 3 or 4 leaflets)....and she STILL resorted to lies ?

Well done on not voting for her!

meglome

gcgirl wrote: »

This annoys the crap out of me !! We are basically a country that relied on stamp duty to keep us in business!! Have you seen any other country do that??

Exactly. But if you said anything you were savagely turned on.

Elmo wrote: »

Should he leave the party? I think if you have a good councilor then you should vote for them regardless of the party.

So what do you do? If someone represents the devil but isn't necessarily bad themselves, is that still okay?

rarnes1 wrote: »

I know people that complain constantly about the state of the country and how it is ran etc and still voted for FF on friday !!:rolleyes:

Personally I wouldnt vote FF or FG as I don't see much difference between them. Their idealogies are very similar

I'll grab some honesty with both hands, so Fine Gael are way ahead for me.

KeRbDoG

colly10 wrote:

I didn't bother voting (for the first time) but if I was I wouldn't have any problem voting for FF, they've been poor but I don't think anyone else would have done a better job (and could have done worse).
I don't like Enda Kenny as a leader and will never give FG a vote while he's leading the party

Kerbdog wrote:

This is the same reason if I could have voted (was out of the country) I wouldn't vote FG

meglome wrote: »

So just because you don't like Enda Kennys personality you'd still rather vote for a party that has brought the country to the brink of financial ruin. Sweet ****ing christ.

You seem to think I would have voted FF - I wouldn't, I would have voted for any other party other than FG or FF.

samsemtex

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally I thought it was awful the way Labour and Fine Gael arranged for good weather last Friday, so those disaffected with the system lost their excuse for not voting and went and voted anti-establishment.

All these conspiracies, huh?

Yeah, because FG and Labour have the same level of control over the weather as FF do over when to call a general election :rolleyes:

It was being said at the time. There was no logical reason that the 2007 election was held on a Thursday other than to prevent young people who are least likely to vote for FF from voting. Not a conspiracy, just the truth.

samsemtex

samsemtex wrote: »

It was being said at the time.

Ah sure there you go then. Proof, if ever it was needed.

samsemtex wrote: »

There was no logical reason that the 2007 election was held on a Thursday other than to prevent young people who are least likely to vote for FF from voting. Not a conspiracy, just the truth.

There was. It was argued over and back here. Back in 2007. It's so long ago I barely remember, and thought most bar yourself had just got over it and moved on, but think expense was one issue.

Poncherello

If you really want to know why FF got 25% of the vote watch a replay of Q&A last night.
Bruton and Burton were pathetic. Finance spokepersons dont make me laugh.
They couldnt even articulate how FF had screwed last Sep with the blanket Bank guarantee.
Micheal Martin destroyed them

jimmmy

gcgirl wrote: »

We are basically a country that relied on stamp duty to keep us in business!! Have you seen any other country do that??

Not just "in business", but in business in a style unequalled anywhere else in the world, by country big or small....what other country pays its govt and their employees as much ? Thats the 24% of the population.

Liam Byrne

Poncherello wrote: »

If you really want to know why FF got 25% of the vote watch a replay of Q&A last night.
Bruton and Burton were pathetic. Finance spokepersons dont make me laugh.
They couldnt even articulate how FF had screwed last Sep with the blanket Bank guarantee.
Micheal Martin destroyed them

Micheal Martin was arrogant in the extreme, shouting them down.

To his credit, John Gormley at least appeared to acknowledge that some of the decisions made PRIOR to the crash helped to make it worse.

Like an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, the first stage is admission - in this case admission that they CONTRIBUTED to the crash.

Until FF do that they won't have a notion as to the real reasons people hate them; they're still deluding themselves that it's because of the "tough but right" :rolleyes: decisions that they've made SINCE.

Dannyboy83

Poncherello wrote: »

If you really want to know why FF got 25% of the vote watch a replay of Q&A last night.
Bruton and Burton were pathetic. Finance spokepersons dont make me laugh.
They couldnt even articulate how FF had screwed last Sep with the blanket Bank guarantee.
Micheal Martin destroyed them

Well said, Michael Martin made them look like a bunch of schoolchildren who quote facts & statistics, but deep down, you know they haven't the foggiest.

Despite my hatred of FF and everything they've done, for a few fleeting seconds, he made me think about it from another angle.
That's the hallmark of a great politician and diplomat.
(He is the ONLY person in government who has managed to do that so far)

Shame as I've voted for him in the past, but as long as he remains with FF in their current incarnation, he will never get my support again.

DB10

I cannot belive anyone in their right mind would FF again.

It is one thing thinking FG will not do better but there is other alternatives out there.

Sleazus

Many, many reasons, including:

• Because the opposition deal in generalities so as to avoid engaging in a debate about how to recover. Somebody has to feel the pain, and Labour and Fien Gael are trying to hide that fact.
• Because I don't think it's possible to govern in a recession without ticking people off - and pandering to people ("no, a Labour and Fine Gael coalition would never tax you so badly!") is insulting and patronising.
• Because most of the cuts have been relatively fair - the 1% levy was a great idea that symbolically stated that we are all in this together. Because most of the welfare cuts were to benefits given by Fianna Fail in the first place, I accept we can't keep them up.
• Because the opposition can't make up the cuts needed to get us clear - and they aren't trying because they know that if they did they'd alienate voters.
• Because Labour and Fine Gael have irreconcilable policies - coalition between the two, unless outlined beforehand, will be disastrous.
• Because I recognise politics when I see it. The opposition isn't motivated by what's best, they're motivated by getting to power. This is why they won't enter a pre-election pact or engage in constructive discourse with the government.
• Because the Fianna Fail candidates were better, and more visible. Because they didn't show up on my door telling me to vote for them because of what they weren't - all other candidates on my door defined themselves by what they weren't.
• Because it's unfair to blame Fianna Fail for a global recession, or even the Irish recession. Because Fine Gael and Labour would have done things so differently.

T runner

meglome wrote: »

Exactly. But if you said anything you were savagely turned on.

Kinda, like the way you savagely turn on anyone who votes for someone you dont like?

So what do you do? If someone represents the devil but isn't necessarily bad themselves, is that still okay?

Not just getting a little carried away there? Fianna Fail are the devil now? They were called rapists before also I think. Is it honest to exaggerate in this way?

I'll grab some honesty with both hands, so Fine Gael are way ahead for me.

What about Garretts erm...... tax issues? Will you be grabbing some of that also?

Liam Byrne

T runner wrote: »

Fianna Fail are the devil now?

In context : many FF supporters excused their choice by saying "better the devil you know".

T runner wrote: »

They were called rapists before also I think

It was said that they raped the country; which is a different observation.

meglome

Sleazus wrote: »

• Because the opposition deal in generalities so as to avoid engaging in a debate about how to recover. Somebody has to feel the pain, and Labour and Fien Gael are trying to hide that fact.

Fine Gael supplied a detailed plan for job creation. And let's be honest no party is suggesting there won't be any pain, it blatantly obvious there's going to be more pain. Although Labour are afraid to say too much and upset their traditional working class voters. That said Fianna Fail are the only ones that seem to think we've only got a global problem which is utter rubbish.

Sleazus wrote: »

• Because I don't think it's possible to govern in a recession without ticking people off - and pandering to people ("no, a Labour and Fine Gael coalition would never tax you so badly!") is insulting and patronising.

You mean the recession created in great part by Fianna Fail's policies. The one they say they didn't create?

Sleazus wrote: »

• Because most of the cuts have been relatively fair - the 1% levy was a great idea that symbolically stated that we are all in this together. Because most of the welfare cuts were to benefits given by Fianna Fail in the first place, I accept we can't keep them up.

We threw money at everything and had no concept of value for money. Paid for by stamp duty from a property bubble that could not last. No matter what happened internationally we would have been billions in a hole now. And how the fiascos of our budgets can be seen as anything other than incompetence I just don't know.

Sleazus wrote: »

• Because the opposition can't make up the cuts needed to get us clear - and they aren't trying because they know that if they did they'd alienate voters.

There is no choice but to make cuts in certain areas after the huge hole Fianna Fail helped us into.

Sleazus wrote: »

• Because Labour and Fine Gael have irreconcilable policies - coalition between the two, unless outlined beforehand, will be disastrous.

I don't doubt a deal a can be done. Considering the ****e we're in there's no other choice.

Sleazus wrote: »

Many, many reasons, including:

• Because I recognise politics when I see it. The opposition isn't motivated by what's best, they're motivated by getting to power. This is why they won't enter a pre-election pact or engage in constructive discourse with the government.

I laughed out loud when I read this. I appreciate that people will have different opinions to me but I kinda expect them to be living on the same planet. If you recognise politics then you might have noticed Fianna Fail who don't even recognise the big part they played creating this recession.

Sleazus wrote: »

Many, many reasons, including:

• Because the Fianna Fail candidates were better, and more visible. Because they didn't show up on my door telling me to vote for them because of what they weren't - all other candidates on my door defined themselves by what they weren't.

Different planet really. When the sitting government has put the country in the toilet then I think it's perfectly valid to make a strong point on that. As long as you are also putting forward alternatives, which, for example, Fine Gael have.

Sleazus wrote: »

Many, many reasons, including:

• Because it's unfair to blame Fianna Fail for a global recession, or even the Irish recession. Because Fine Gael and Labour would have done things so differently.

True I don't blame Fianna Fail for the global recession in the slightest. However I haven't lost the power to do simple subtraction... property bubble gone (as they always do) so billions in tax shortfall. Where was that going to come from exactly? And the knock-on effects of the property bubble going how was that going to paid for exactly? The global situation just made it worse. I'm getting really tired of the 'sure FG or Lab wouldn't have done it any better' crap. I'm convinced they couldn't have done a worse job even if they were trying to do a bad job.


It really does boggle my mind that after the corruption scandals, the overspends, encouraging of a property bubble, the waste etc etc etc etc that people can fully defend Fianna Fails position. At some point you should really smell the flowers before it's too late.

paddyland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It was said that they raped the country; which is a different observation.

They certainly raped me, that's for sure.

Right now, I am jobless and penniless.

I am five months waiting for a dole payment. I have no income AT ALL.

Thank God my elderly mother is still alive, and I can live under her roof, and her widow's pension buys me food to eat.

Otherwise, I'd be living in a cardboard box in Molesworth Street.

Get this:

I would LOVE - I would DEARLY LOVE to take a wage cut, a tax increase, a levy, anything they could throw at me. I would love a social welfare cut of 400%.

Because right now, I get nothing at all.

FF, two-faced, lying charlatans. The devil is alive and well, and screwing and raping us all, even the ones who live in blissful ignorance of that fact.