Dubs overhyped

premierstone

LeoB wrote: »

So how mant titles have your county won this past 4 years?

Yes leinster title are a fantastic achievement, its the pinacle of modern day sport - why then then pillar get the door?

Most counties are envieous of what Dublin can generate even with the huge pull from other sports in and around Dublin city and county.

You do realise that Dublin also has a population of over one and a half million and yet havent been in an AI since 1995

As for the Bandwagon supporters there is probably enough to say in a thread all on its own about them. Which I will start when we reach the point where we will be hearing the complaints of the loyal supporters who cant get tickets or if you want to start it, great.

Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick here I thought you were suggesting that there were folks from outside of Dublin jumping on the bandwagon, I have witnessed at first hand what you are talking about having lived in Dublin for 6 years and yes it is a serious problem

Its fair to say at the moment we have a chance of winning Leinster and after that a lot will depend on the day. Dublin are well capable of beating Kerry and Tyrone as are Cork. Kerry and Tyrone would fancy their chances against Dublin but take away last years collapse and Dublin are closer than most give them credit for.

I would agree that Dublin ''on their day'' are a match for anyone but I doubt they are capable of beating say three top teams in sucession, which is what is ultimately required

I actually think last Sunday could could have been a blessing for Dublin as the panel will have gained a lot of experience from the day. When did Dublin last field such an inexperienced team in Cship? Gilroy has a lot to work with and I think will be happy enough.

Agree that it will benefit Dublin that they will be written off in some quarters but alot of the new faces I thought were dissapointing and the one who put he's hand up is unfortunately now out for the season, I do think the Dublin team needs re-building and I had hoped that Gilroy would have been told ''ok you have 3/4 years to get us to that next level, develop your own team'' but unfortunately when the going got tough last sunday who did he look to - Jason Sherlock and Ciaran Whelan. Also think Keaney would be a bigger asset to Dublin playing with the small ball - same goes for Shane Ryan.

Dont attack me these are just my opinions lookin in from the outside

Mullet

murrayp4 wrote: »

Same bull from the Hearld/FM104 types every year...blah blah blah.
I remember the 2006 semi, 104 were running a competition for tickets "to go and see Dublin thrash Mayo"

Good God that was sweetness.:P

(what happened after, we shall not discuss...)

Exactly. The said radio station were running a competition for tickets for dublin v meath last sunday. They didnt mention at all in their promo that there was a hurling match on too. A right shower of bandwagoners.

Frank Spencer

premierstone wrote: »

Yes leinster title are a fantastic achievement, its the pinacle of modern day sport - why then then pillar get the door?

You nicely avoided the question there. Care to answer?

premierstone wrote: »

You do realise that Dublin also has a population of over one and a half million and yet havent been in an AI since 1995

China has a population of 1.3 Billion and yet haven't been able to win a Soccer World Cup ever. It's not as simple as just population.

thegen

Buck_Naked wrote: »

You nicely avoided the question there. Care to answer?



China has a population of 1.3 Billion and yet haven't been able to win a Soccer World Cup ever. It's not as simple as just population.

I have to agree on the population thing. Do people realise how many of our country cousins make up the population of Dublin?

I am not sure of the exact figure but it is a big %.

Dublin are overhyped by the media not by the majority of their support.

Drummerboy2

thegen wrote: »

I have to agree on the population thing. Do people realise how many of our country cousins make up the population of Dublin?

I am not sure of the exact figure but it is a big %.

Dublin are overhyped by the media not by the majority of their support.

GAA is still a minority sport in most parts of Dublin. Probably because the rural born “Christian” Brothers tried to beat it into the working class of Dublin over the years. Thankfully things are changing, huge interest every time the Dubs play. But what will turn a lot of Dubs off is the absolute hatred of all things Dublin from certain country people.

Het-Field

Im a Dublin fan, of avid proportions, who will gladly accept our shortcomings. These shortcomings have been evident, since our lucky escape against Louth in Navan in 1996. We have never really looked like All Ireland Contenders since then (save for 2002, and a ten Minuite patch against Kerry in 2001)

Het-Field

premierstone wrote: »

LOL jealous of what exactly?? Mediocrity Plenty of that around.

And btw bandwagon supporters will generally jump on a successfull team, id say yer safe enough there

People like you are the ones who give "Dublin Critical" supporters a bad name.

Your "Bandwagon" comment supports this. Look at the crowds at the leage games this year. Last weekend 75,000 turned out. Kerry fans have a notorious reputation for biding their time before attending any championship game. Most counties have a bandwagon element to it. Its simply due to the size of Dublin Support which pisses others off. Dublin have no more a bandwagon fanbase then anybody else.

premierstone

Het-Field wrote: »

People like you are the ones who give "Dublin Critical" supporters a bad name.

Your "Bandwagon" comment supports this. Look at the crowds at the leage games this year. Last weekend 75,000 turned out. Kerry fans have a notorious reputation for biding their time before attending any championship game. Most counties have a bandwagon element to it. Its simply due to the size of Dublin Support which pisses others off. Dublin have no more a bandwagon fanbase then anybody else.

I already explained my comments re the bandwagon issue above in my reply to Leo it was me miss-interperting Leo's post and also that post was tounge in cheek apologies if i offended anyone

premierstone

Buck_Naked wrote: »

You nicely avoided the question there. Care to answer?



China has a population of 1.3 Billion and yet haven't been able to win a Soccer World Cup ever. It's not as simple as just population.

You also ignored 80% of my post :rolleyes:

As for the China comparison, yes you are right but the difference been the Chineese media or the world media have never touted them as potential world champions and blown their performances out of all porportion

Frank Spencer

premierstone wrote: »

You also ignored 80% of my post :rolleyes:

As for the China comparison, yes you are right but the difference been the Chineese media or the world media have never touted them as potential world champions and blown their performances out of all porportion

What points of your post would you like me to address? I notice you have still avoided Leo's question.

It seems to me that your problem is with the media then. So why bring it up here on a GAA forum. The supporters, players, management etc. have no influence over what the media decide to say.

corny

keane2097 wrote: »

Can I assume your towering intellect is displayed fully in this post?

No but you can assume my lack of interest in debating with the feeble minded is displayed fully though.

mink_man

his point exactly!

Kinetic^

walshb wrote: »

One thing Dublin are and that is consistent. 17 freaking wides yesterday:)

I don't know how some fans don't get tired supporting
that crap!

Quite consistent again today.

premierstone

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Quite consistent again today.

Yes in fairness they do consistently beat sh*te teams in the weakest provincial championship in football and nearly on a par with the ulster hurling championship

Pride Fighter

premierstone wrote: »

Yes in fairness they do consistently beat sh*te teams in the weakest provincial championship in football and nearly on a par with the ulster hurling championship

The myth of Leinster being the weakest province is just that, a myth. Connacht is far weaker as is Munster. Ulster is the only genuine strong province, all the others are weaker.

LeoB

premierstone wrote: »

Yes in fairness they do consistently beat sh*te teams in the weakest provincial championship in football and nearly on a par with the ulster hurling championship

Not so sure about this, Connacht is weaker, Munster is weaker and Ulster is probably the strongest but look at what we get out of Ulster games. Negative comments about pulling and dragging and over physical games.

Premierstone, I am not attacking you, As for population issue, If you look closely at Dublin there are actually quite large pockets where there is little or no G.A.A played. I dont know the percentages but I would say considering the size/population of Dublin it has a smaller playing pool than most counties altough great work is being done to increase numbers at all levels.

As for pillar, he done a good job in my opinion. He brought Dublin on a level and cemented them as the top county in the province. I think the big error he made was simply not doing what Gilroy has done and thats throwing in players on form.

I agree fully Keaney and Ryan would be more of an asset to the Hurlers. As for Jason Sherlock, sit back and watch him. I think he is just marvellous to watch. His shooting is not the best altough he hit 6 points against Westmeath but he is a very intelligent footballer and a great team player. I think because of what Gilroy has done Dublin could close gap considerably on Kerry, Tyrone and Cork

My club whic is fairly rural has Soccer camps, Cricket camps, basketball camps to name but a few to contend with. The competition is fierce. There are Bandwagon supporters everywhere and I hate them, well I dislike them. If tickets were taken back from ticketmaster and only given out through clubs we would see less of them.

mink_man

every province has bad counties!

yerayeah

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The myth of Leinster being the weakest province is just that, a myth. Connacht is far weaker as is Munster. Ulster is the only genuine strong province, all the others are weaker.

I'll give you Connaught but I think Munster is stronger than Leinster. Quality over quantity!

Munster has 2 of the 3 teams with serious all Ireland aspirations, along with Tipp and especially Limerick who can be very tricky opponents. Whereas in Leinster, Kildare are looking good this year but they wouldn't seriously trouble a top side and Dublin did look very impressive yesterday but I can't remember seeing an intercounty as wretched as Westmeath. Other than that there is not a lot... A lot of nice footballing teams who won't stand up to August/September intensity.

bricky10

ah now, Galway have won to all irelands since 1998, Dublin have won nothing from 2000+. Leinster is the worst province for football and that is coming from a Kildare man BUT with the rise of some teams in Leinster like Kildare, things may change.

Kildare for Leinster 09!!!

premierstone

omg I refuse to discuss football with anyone who doesnt realise that leinster football is the weakest by a distance.

This however is not Dublins fault and they are streets ahead of the rest but can anyone honestly come on here and tell me that they would have won 3 or 4 consecutive provincial titles in any other province when Kerry, Tyrone and Galway cant do it in their respective provinces

Drummerboy2

yerayeah wrote: »

I'll give you Connaught but I think Munster is stronger than Leinster. Quality over quantity!

Munster has 2 of the 3 teams with serious all Ireland aspirations, along with Tipp and especially Limerick who can be very tricky opponents. Whereas in Leinster, Kildare are looking good this year but they wouldn't seriously trouble a top side and Dublin did look very impressive yesterday but I can't remember seeing an intercounty as wretched as Westmeath. Other than that there is not a lot... A lot of nice footballing teams who won't stand up to August/September intensity.

You are taking the piss now! Kerry obviously, Cork possibly but where you get a third team from I don't know. Laughable. People also forget Wexford got to a semifinal last year. Dublin were beaten by the eventual winners in the quarterfinal.

premierstone

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

You are taking the piss now! Kerry obviously, Cork possibly but where you get a third team from I don't know. Laughable. People also forget Wexford got to a semifinal last year. Dublin were beaten by the eventual winners in the quarterfinal.

So if Cork is ''possibly'' that to me would mean that there isnt a single contender in Leinster ffs man wake up Cork would destroy anyteam in Leinster outside of Dublin and would be marginal favourites agaiinst Dublin aswell.

So tell me who do you regard as the third best team in Leinster just for interest like??

baztard

Matt Cooper on TV3 giving a synopsis before an ad break, after the Dublin v. Westmeath match finished...

"Dublin have beaten Westmeath, but are they good enough to win the All Ireland"

Eh you forgot about the Leinster final there Matt, and the AI backdoor, quarter and semi finals... hype hype hype!!!

I've noticed the only people who really over hype the dubs are the dub newspapers and the rag newspapers (Evening Herarld, Sun etc) and the mass of bandwagon supporters that get going around this time of year.

The real fans know the true potential of the team I'm sure. Which at this stage is impossible to tell.

dcr22B

baztard wrote: »

The real fans know the true potential of the team I'm sure. Which at this stage is impossible to tell.

Hurray, a sensible post.

The diehard fans know that there are still issues with the team especially the FB line but I've admired Gilroy's guts this year and I really feel we have a good nucleus of 20-22 players that can perform for us either at the start of a game or if brought in as a replacement but until we start beating the Tyrones, Kerrys and Corks at the business end of the season, it just won't be good enough.

I tend to ignore this hype machine, the talking is done during 70 minutes on the pitch and we've done well so far albeit against shockingly limited opposition.

Roll on the Flourbags!

Drummerboy2

premierstone wrote: »

So if Cork is ''possibly'' that to me would mean that there isnt a single contender in Leinster ffs man wake up Cork would destroy anyteam in Leinster outside of Dublin and would be marginal favourites agaiinst Dublin aswell.

So tell me who do you regard as the third best team in Leinster just for interest like??

I don't expect Dublin to win the Alll-Ireland. They are on a par with Cork. Think Kerry will get to the final at least. But I dont see any other Munster team who could come within an asses roar to Croke Park next September. You tell me. Limerick, Tip, Waterford or Clare. Get the blinkers off!! To suggest they could win it is bizarre.

The third best team in Leinster is probably Meath, Wexford or Laois. None of these team are up to much but I reckon they are stronger than the four Munster also rans.

premierstone

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

I don't expect Dublin to win the Alll-Ireland. They are on a par with Cork. Think Kerry will get to the final at least. But I dont see any other Munster team who could come within an asses roar to Croke Park next September. You tell me. Limerick, Tip, Waterford or Clare. Get the blinkers off!! To suggest they could win it is bizarre.

The third best team in Leinster is probably Meath, Wexford or Laois. None of these team are up to much but I reckon they are stronger than the four Munster also rans.

Yes they put up a valiant effort against Limerick (a Munster also ran according to yourself) last year :rolleyes:

Drummerboy2

premierstone wrote: »

Yes they put up a valiant effort against Limerick (a Munster also ran according to yourself) last year :rolleyes:

One swallow doesn't make a summer, besides Wexford reached the all Ireland semis last year, when was the last time any Munster team besides the big 2 reach the semis.

premierstone

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

One swallow doesn't make a summer, besides Wexford reached the all Ireland semis last year, when was the last time any Munster team besides the big 2 reach the semis.

It was in the early to mid nineties cant remember the exact year 92 I think open to correction though. And that is my point Drummer in Munster there is a ''big two'' in Leinster there is one team - and even they havent won Sam for 14 years now.

Drummerboy2

Kildare are a very decent team at the moment. Meath are at an all time low over the last five years, but I would expect that to be rectified in the near future. Cork have done nothing outside Munster for a long time. They look impressive this year I'll give you that. But to say that Munster football is infinitely superior to Leinster is wrong in my opinion.

premierstone

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Kildare are a very decent team at the moment. Meath are at an all time low over the last five years, but I would expect that to be rectified in the near future. Cork have done nothing outside Munster for a long time. They look impressive this year I'll give you that. But to say that Munster football is infinitely superior to Leinster is wrong in my opinion.

This makes no sense tbh, you say that Cork have achieved nothing outside of Munster, which firstly I dont agree with and secondly what has any leinster team achieved outside of Leinster. Kildare have beaten Laois and Offaly - hardly puts them anywhere near Cork.

So Kerry are no.1 in munster and are far superior to Dublin. Cork are second in Munster and are far superior to Kildare. Limerick are third in Munster and are at least level with Meath, Wexford and Laois.

Seriously am I missing something here :rolleyes:

Lemlin

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Kildare are a very decent team at the moment. Meath are at an all time low over the last five years, but I would expect that to be rectified in the near future. Cork have done nothing outside Munster for a long time. They look impressive this year I'll give you that. But to say that Munster football is infinitely superior to Leinster is wrong in my opinion.

I've missed most of this but I'd have to back up premierstone. There's no questioning IMO that Munster football is infinitely superior to Leinster football over the past decade or so, and particularly in recent years.

Kerry have won All-Irelands and Cork have regularly made semi-finals and also a final. Limerick also had a decent enough run last year. You have to remember too that Munster football is only 6 teams and Leinster football is 12. For Munster to have two stand out teams is massive. Leinster hasn't had two stand out teams performing well in consecutive years in a long time.

This is epitomised by the fact that a 'good' but not brilliant Dublin team have won the Leinster Championship continually in recent years. They've won it without much hassle most years but have made little or no impact outside it. If anything, the lack of quality in Leinster has hurt Dublin in that they've never had a decent challenge to really test themselves before the quarters or semis.

Even back when Westmeath and Laois won the Leinster championship (in 2003 and 2004), they then limped out of it. I can't remember who beat Laois in 2003 but I know Derry, a second rate Ulster team at the time, knocked out Westmeath in 2004.

Het-Field

TBH, I think the overall standard of football (vis-a-vis it's) competitive edge has dimished terribly over the past number of years. There have been very few winners outside of the major counties, in any provincial championship. Since 2000 the competitive edge has simply flitted away, and this has been reflected in the Tyrone/Kerry dominance of the past 9 seasons

In the 1990s, Ulster produced three All Ireland Teams in Donegal, Down and Derry, a strong runner up in Tyrone, a decent Cavan team in 1997, while Armagh made their frist break through in 1999.

In Leinster, Dublin dominated in the first half of the decade, however, Meath, Kildare, and Offaly all had their respective days, with Meath winning two titles in the process.

Connaught and Munster had a much stronger edge, and produced a suprise or two with the likes of Leitrim and Clare taking a provincial title each. Since then (with the exception of the 2007 Sligo victory), the provinces have been dominated by one team in Munster (with Cork making in roads recently), and Mayo and Galway.

Since then we have seen Leinster become a competitive wasteland, Munster remains a Cork/Kerry scenario, while Connaught has seen the removal of Leitrim, Sligo, and Roscommon as any from of opposition. Ulster remains competitive, but most of the teams are a long way behind Tyrone (who even had their own lull between 2006-2008)

I realise that it is a case of "swings and roundabouts", and naturally, there will always be a small amount of teams who are naturally going to be top five (Tyrone,Kerry,Cork,Dublin and Galway/Mayo) at any given time, however,I live in hope that from 2010 onwards, the championship will start becoming more competitive.

Lemlin

Het-Field wrote: »

TBH, I think the overall standard of football (vis-a-vis it's) competitive edge has dimished terribly over the past number of years. There have been very few winners outside of the major counties, in any provincial championship. Since 2000 the competitive edge has simply flitted away, and this has been reflected in the Tyrone/Kerry dominance of the past 9 seasons

In the 1990s, Ulster produced three All Ireland Teams in Donegal, Down and Derry, a strong runner up in Tyrone, a decent Cavan team in 1997, while Armagh made their frist break through in 1999.

In Leinster, Dublin dominated in the first half of the decade, however, Meath, Kildare, and Offaly all had their respective days, with Meath winning two titles in the process.

Connaught and Munster had a much stronger edge, and produced a suprise or two with the likes of Leitrim and Clare taking a provincial title each. Since then (with the exception of the 2007 Sligo victory), the provinces have been dominated by one team in Munster (with Cork making in roads recently), and Mayo and Galway.

Since then we have seen Leinster become a competitive wasteland, Munster remains a Cork/Kerry scenario, while Connaught has seen the removal of Leitrim, Sligo, and Roscommon as any from of opposition. Ulster remains competitive, but most of the teams are a long way behind Tyrone (who even had their own lull between 2006-2008)

I realise that it is a case of "swings and roundabouts", and naturally, there will always be a small amount of teams who are naturally going to be top five (Tyrone,Kerry,Cork,Dublin and Galway/Mayo) at any given time, however,I live in hope that from 2010 onwards, the championship will start becoming more competitive.

There's a reason though that the Championship is continually being won by a select group of teams: the qualifers. Before, the bigger teams would have been caught on the hop once and been out of the championship. The chance of catching a side on the hop twice is minimal though. I'm not sure of the stats but a large number of the All-Ireland champions over the last number of years have come through the qualifers.

That's why I think the championship needs to change. The qualifers have now diminished the provincial championships so I think a league format would be best. Get rid of the National League and just have the championship as a league format over the Summer. 4 divisions of eight teams. Games could be played at neutral venues or, if you wanted to go all out, each team could have a home and then away game. That'd still only be 14 games for each team.

It'd also guarantee some top games that teams take seriously. For example, in any one season, Dublin would be playing the likes of Cork, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway, Armagh and Derry (or whoever you place the top eight as). They could even be playing them twice and it'd lead to some great games.

Pride Fighter

Lemlin wrote: »

There's a reason though that the Championship is continually being won by a select group of teams: the qualifers. Before, the bigger teams would have been caught on the hop once and been out of the championship. The chance of catching a side on the hop twice is minimal though. I'm not sure of the stats but a large number of the All-Ireland champions over the last number of years have come through the qualifers.

That's why I think the championship needs to change. The qualifers have now diminished the provincial championships so I think a league format would be best. Get rid of the National League and just have the championship as a league format over the Summer. 4 divisions of eight teams. Games could be played at neutral venues or, if you wanted to go all out, each team could have a home and then away game. That'd still only be 14 games for each team.

It'd also guarantee some top games that teams take seriously. For example, in any one season, Dublin would be playing the likes of Cork, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway, Armagh and Derry (or whoever you place the top eight as). They could even be playing them twice and it'd lead to some great games.

I'd agree with this. But disbanding the provincial titles means the GAA loses a little something. Look at the GAA write off sticky, there is an article there which retains the provincial championships but puts them into a League format as well.

K-9

Lemlin wrote: »

Even back when Westmeath and Laois won the Leinster championship (in 2003 and 2004), they then limped out of it. I can't remember who beat Laois in 2003 but I know Derry, a second rate Ulster team at the time, knocked out Westmeath in 2004.

It was Armagh.

Lemlin wrote: »

There's a reason though that the Championship is continually being won by a select group of teams: the qualifers. Before, the bigger teams would have been caught on the hop once and been out of the championship. The chance of catching a side on the hop twice is minimal though. I'm not sure of the stats but a large number of the All-Ireland champions over the last number of years have come through the qualifers.

That's why I think the championship needs to change. The qualifers have now diminished the provincial championships so I think a league format would be best. Get rid of the National League and just have the championship as a league format over the Summer. 4 divisions of eight teams. Games could be played at neutral venues or, if you wanted to go all out, each team could have a home and then away game. That'd still only be 14 games for each team.

It'd also guarantee some top games that teams take seriously. For example, in any one season, Dublin would be playing the likes of Cork, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway, Armagh and Derry (or whoever you place the top eight as). They could even be playing them twice and it'd lead to some great games.

A League system would favour the top counties even more. Usually, the 2 top teams will come through, especially if this is a Championship replacement.

I think the Qualifiers is a good balance between the two, though it could be tweaked. You can still get your shocks, like Donegal in the Championship and the Qualifiers like Wexford last year. 18 teams of the top of my head have got to Q/F's this decade, teams like Fermanagh and Sligo.

Drummerboy2

premierstone wrote: »

This makes no sense tbh, you say that Cork have achieved nothing outside of Munster, which firstly I dont agree with and secondly what has any leinster team achieved outside of Leinster. Kildare have beaten Laois and Offaly - hardly puts them anywhere near Cork.

So Kerry are no.1 in munster and are far superior to Dublin. Cork are second in Munster and are far superior to Kildare. Limerick are third in Munster and are at least level with Meath, Wexford and Laois.

Seriously am I missing something here :rolleyes:

You seem to forget that Cork beat Kerry last year in Munster and were hammered in Croke Park by Kerry. Can't remember the last time them won anything. So really the only real power in Munster up to this year has been Kerry.

But getting back to your original point, you stated that a third Munster team have a chance of winning an all Ireland. What do you base that on?

Meath Dublin and Wexford have all reached semi finals in the last four or five years, from the supposedly weakest province. Basically, up to this year, apart from Kerry, there has been no difference between the 2 provinces. Its as plain as the nose on your face.

Pride Fighter

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

You seem to forget that Cork beat Kerry last year in Munster and were hammered in Croke Park by Kerry. Can't remember the last time them won anything. So really the only real power in Munster up to this year has been Kerry.

But getting back to your original point, you stated that a third Munster team have a chance of winning an all Ireland. What do you base that on?

Meath Dublin and Wexford have all reached semi finals in the last four or five years, from the supposedly weakest province. Basically, up to this year, apart from Kerry, there has been no difference. Its as plain as the nose on your face.

Dont forget that Kildare, Westmeath and Laois have also reached the quarter finals in the last 4 or 5 years too. The three you mentioned plus the three I mentioned is 6 counties out of 11, over half of Leinster have reached at least a quarter final in the past few years. Have over half of Munster done this? Half of Connacht? Ulster has. So my original point that Leinster is the second best province seems to stand true, even though the All Ireland well has dried up a bit.

premierstone

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

You seem to forget that Cork beat Kerry last year in Munster and were hammered in Croke Park by Kerry. Can't remember the last time them won anything. So really the only real power in Munster up to this year has been Kerry.

But getting back to your original point, you stated that a third Munster team have a chance of winning an all Ireland. What do you base that on?

Meath Dublin and Wexford have all reached semi finals in the last four or five years, from the supposedly weakest province. Basically, up to this year, apart from Kerry, there has been no difference between the 2 provinces. Its as plain as the nose on your face.

Never ever have I stated this please stick to the facts. Two Munster teams have a chance of winning sam and as you conceeded yourself thats two more than Leinster.

You say you cant remeber the last time Cork won anything? Who are the Munster champions? If Leinster football is stronger than Munster and Dublin have 4 in a row titles do you believe that Dublin would win 4 in a row in Munster or Connacht for that matter.

You seem to be takin this as a dig at Dublin its not, its not Dublins fault that they are in an uncompetitive provincial set-up and if anything it is holding back their development significantly imo, take for example the likes of the new FB (basstick or something sorry not sure) and the Corner Back who made he's debut last sunday and Davoren before he's injury these guys end up in an AI quarter Final and they have never played in a competive championship match next thing there playing a Cork/Kerry/Mayo/Galway/Tyrone/Derry team who have come through the qualifiers and had a competitive game in their province.

Gilroy has the makingss of a really nice panel there at the moment but as I said they will arrive at an AI quarter final having played nothing more than friendlies, which is fine if you have a settled experienced team but not when you are trying to mould a new team like Gilroy needed to do.

garbanzo

Sorry lads, I don't buy it. This premise is all based on hearsay.

You see it every year. The Dubs win a game and it is the Media who immediately start the worn old line about so-called "people talking about The Dubs winning the All Ireland". It is totally a media creation. No-one I've met has even had the temerity to go there yet. There's been just too much disappointment around The Dubs since the glory of 1995. Yes we can dream about it - and there's nothing wrong with that - but there's no queue of people out there that I can see lining up to put their houses on The Dubs for Sam 2009. . . yet.

Only when we win Leinster and the All-Ireland series proper starts up can we begin to consider this as a real possibility.

corny

premierstone wrote: »

This makes no sense tbh, you say that Cork have achieved nothing outside of Munster, which firstly I dont agree with and secondly what has any leinster team achieved outside of Leinster. Kildare have beaten Laois and Offaly - hardly puts them anywhere near Cork.

So Kerry are no.1 in munster and are far superior to Dublin. Cork are second in Munster and are far superior to Kildare. Limerick are third in Munster and are at least level with Meath, Wexford and Laois.

Seriously am I missing something here :rolleyes:

For starters i don't know how anyone can call it the 'Munster Championship'. Its the Cork or Kerry championship. Clare in 92 and Tipp in 1935 were the last 2 occasions Cork or Kerry didn't win it. 1896 was the last time your 'third best team won it'. So to say 'Munster' football is far superior to Leinster football is stretching it in the extreme. A better question would be since when was Munster a competitive championship??

The Leinster and Ulster championships are the only championships that mean anything in the first place.

"Meath Dublin and Wexford have all reached semi finals in the last four or five years, from the supposedly weakest province." When did or when will Limerick or Tipp reach an All Ireland semi?

Nalced_irl

baztard wrote: »

Matt Cooper on TV3 giving a synopsis before an ad break, after the Dublin v. Westmeath match finished...

"Dublin have beaten Westmeath, but are they good enough to win the All Ireland"

Eh you forgot about the Leinster final there Matt, and the AI backdoor, quarter and semi finals... hype hype hype!!!

I've noticed the only people who really over hype the dubs are the dub newspapers and the rag newspapers (Evening Herarld, Sun etc) and the mass of bandwagon supporters that get going around this time of year.

The real fans know the true potential of the team I'm sure. Which at this stage is impossible to tell.

In fairness i think they were saying the opposite. After a big victory, the obvious question is "have they announced themselves as AI contenders?". The general view of the panel was no. After a match like that you obviously cant say that they have. Also they werent forgetting the Leinster final etc, they were merely asking if Dublin are strong enough to get through them and get to/win the AI final. At this stage, most of the top teams are running in a lower gear. Once the provincials are out of the way, they move up and thats the time you start to see who can or cant go all the way. Can Dublin lift it enough after the provincials? Not impossible but very improbable. I think it will take one more year before Gilroy has his team\tactics fully decided and maybe then we can start hoping for more.

Drummerboy2

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Dont forget that Kildare, Westmeath and Laois have also reached the quarter finals in the last 4 or 5 years too. The three you mentioned plus the three I mentioned is 6 counties out of 11, over half of Leinster have reached at least a quarter final in the past few years. Have over half of Munster done this? Half of Connacht? Ulster has. So my original point that Leinster is the second best province seems to stand true, even though the All Ireland well has dried up a bit.

premierstone wrote: »

Never ever have I stated this please stick to the facts. Two Munster teams have a chance of winning sam and as you conceeded yourself thats two more than Leinster.

You say you cant remeber the last time Cork won anything? Who are the Munster champions? If Leinster football is stronger than Munster and Dublin have 4 in a row titles do you believe that Dublin would win 4 in a row in Munster or Connacht for that matter.

You seem to be takin this as a dig at Dublin its not, its not Dublins fault that they are in an uncompetitive provincial set-up and if anything it is holding back their development significantly imo, take for example the likes of the new FB (basstick or something sorry not sure) and the Corner Back who made he's debut last sunday and Davoren before he's injury these guys end up in an AI quarter Final and they have never played in a competive championship match next thing there playing a Cork/Kerry/Mayo/Galway/Tyrone/Derry team who have come through the qualifiers and had a competitive game in their province.

Gilroy has the makingss of a really nice panel there at the moment but as I said they will arrive at an AI quarter final having played nothing more than friendlies, which is fine if you have a settled experienced team but not when you are trying to mould a new team like Gilroy needed to do.

Apoligies on the 3rd Munster team winning, that was another poster who stated that. I wasn't counting provincial championships when I was referring to Cork. I'm not deluded about Dublin, think they are goood enough for a semi-final, anything else would be a bonus at this stage. However I don't think the general standard of in Leinster is any worse than Munster or Connacht.

I think Munster people get carried away. They keep claiming how good their hurling championshp is, and it is competitive, yet Kilkenny leather them every year. And well we won't mention the rugby.

yerayeah

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

You are taking the piss now! Kerry obviously, Cork possibly but where you get a third team from I don't know. Laughable. People also forget Wexford got to a semifinal last year. Dublin were beaten by the eventual winners in the quarterfinal.

Tyrone being the 3rd team. Read my post again. And I would say Kerry are the distand 3rd of the 3.

corny

yerayeah wrote: »

Tyrone being the 3rd team. Read my post again. And I would say Kerry are the distand 3rd of the 3.

Think you'll find Kerry fronting up when it matters like always.

To say a team thats been in the last 5 All Ireland finals and 7 finals this decade is a distance behind anyone is a stretch it has to be said.

yerayeah

corny wrote: »

Think you'll find Kerry fronting up when it matters like always.

To say a team thats been in the last 5 All Ireland finals and 7 finals this decade is a distance behind anyone is a stretch it has to be said.

I'm from Kerry and I don't see where the inspiration a la Gooch in 02 and Donaghy in 2006, to change the year around is coming from. That said I think we're good enough to beat anyone except Cork or Tyrone who I think have pulled ahead from the pack this year...

I'd be delighted if your correct about Kerry turning things around but I don't see it happening this year!

Lemlin

K-9 wrote: »

It was Armagh.



A League system would favour the top counties even more. Usually, the 2 top teams will come through, especially if this is a Championship replacement.

I think the Qualifiers is a good balance between the two, though it could be tweaked. You can still get your shocks, like Donegal in the Championship and the Qualifiers like Wexford last year. 18 teams of the top of my head have got to Q/F's this decade, teams like Fermanagh and Sligo.

But what good is getting to a quarter final? They only get to the quarter finals because that's where the top teams really come into it again after the qualifiers. The semis is then what sorts out whateverb small chaff is left that snuck through the quarters.

premierstone

corny wrote: »

The Leinster and Ulster championships are the only championships that mean anything in the first place.

Sorry not letting this slide what are you talking about, seriously Id love to know where you came up with this pearl of wisdom.

corny

premierstone wrote: »

Sorry not letting this slide what are you talking about, seriously Id love to know where you came up with this pearl of wisdom.

You mentioned the 'uncompetitive provincial set-up' in Leinster. I'm simply telling you playing one game every year to be Munster champions is hardly a competitive set-up by contrast. Your example.

Even at that Cork beat an uninterested Kerry (they won't be like that when it matters) this year in Munster. So they'll be Munster champions without being tested. Is that a huge difference to the position Dublin are in? You tell me.

premierstone

No no Corny dont backtrack you clearly said that the Munster championship and the Connacht championship are less important than the Leinster championship and I've asked you to explain the rationale behind such a foolish statement - so in your own good time please explain to all the Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo, Leitrim, Kerry, Cork, Clare, etc. counties that their provincail titles are in the eyes of Corny meaningless :rolleyes:

cruiserweight

Different people are using different definitions here to suit themselves. Some people are taking competitive to mean that any of a number of teams can realistically win their provincial championship each year. Some people are taking comptetitive to mean that teams from that province can realistically win the All Ireland. Either way winning any provincial championship or All Ireland championship is an achievement