BNP get seat...

Dr Galen

the BNP's overall vote though was lower than before. The Labour meltdown and the ineffectualness of other parties to mobilise their voters is what has let them in. The second seat was a very close run thing, something 5 thousands votes separated 3 candidate i think.

Good point on the BBC last night was that now they have access to extra funding and resources as MEP's. That in itself is most worrying for me, as you always have a few mad-ass candidates getting in.

Rb and ShooterSF make valid points I think, here and and other threads. A real and proper debate on immigration and integration needs to happen in this country. It is because that has not happened in the UK, that parties like the BNP are gaining some popular support. By opening up the topic for rational debate, removing the finger pointing and working out solutions, hopefully we can prevent racial undertones becoming part of our political scene.

getz

Really-Stressed wrote: »

you would think that the experience of dealing with a certain german in the 1940's would show people where these types of views can lead.

They get very little air time on British T.V usually. They will push for much more now and spread their toxic idology.

I feel very sad for the old factory towns in the northwest. The atmosphere will be terrible. A lot of 2nd or third generation immigrants have basically been told there not wanted and arnt british.

not quite true the uk has always had a large immigrant population ,the irish/the west indian/africian /chinese ect,except for the carnival problems in london in the early 60s there has been little trouble,the reason we have a problem in the uk is because PART of the immigrant community, do not encourage or except intergration with the rest of society, and those who do or marry outside their religion are cast out.

Can'tseeme

Very disappointing to see this. I was watching Nick Grifffin last night worming his way through questions to rationalise his twisted logic on the BBC. When asked why a black person can't join the party, he answered would you ask why a white person can't join the national black police association.

bobbysands81

obl wrote: »

I think you'll find that it's actually called the Sinn Féin IRA.

I'm no supporter of SF so your jibes don't bother... your jibe still doesn't make sense though.

Comparing SF to the BNP shows a kindergarten understanding of politics.

Rowley Birkin QC

getz wrote: »

i am surprised you havent noticed before how daft british politics can be-last week hartlepool voted in as mayor the same man, dressed as a monkey for the third year in succession

I have noticed it, but electing a man dressed as a monkey is a thumb to the establishment, voting in racist, jackbooted, holocaust deniers like Griffin and his ilk is inexcusable.

Also, to be fair to the Monkey Mayor he has been returned in 2005 and again this year minus the costume, once is a fluke but he must be doing something right. His free bananas for school children isn't a bad idea.:D

future_plans

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Good point on the BBC last night was that now they have access to extra funding and resources as MEP's. That in itself is most worrying for me, as you always have a few mad-ass candidates getting in.

He did say that 10% of their new EU funding/salary would go back in to the communities. I cannot remember his exact wording, but it was along the lines of indigenous, Christian and loyal British people. He mentioned doing this through Christian groups. Of course, after this he was asked if he attended church to which he said he didn't!

Another sensational comment he made from what I remember was that he thinks unless something is done now, Britains social system will breakdown in the next 30 years. He drew similarities with the fall of the Roman Empire!!

He's a crack pot!

Nodin

obl wrote: »

I think you'll find that it's actually called the Sinn Féin IRA.

I'd suggest reading their policies on the matter before making such statements.

MrMatisse

getz wrote: »

not quite true the uk has always had a large immigrant population ,the irish/the west indian/africian /chinese ect,except for the carnival problems in london in the early 60s there has been little trouble,the reason we have a problem in the uk is because PART of the immigrant community, do not encourage or except intergration with the rest of society, and those who do or marry outside their religion are cast out.

How can you integrate into a society that votes for the BNP?

The other possible position to take is that people have started to vote for the BNP because they now realise these people have not integrated and are damaging british society. Which suggests that most people werent anti immigrant initially. Which is rubbish. The phrase no blacks no dogs no Irish on arrival in the place comes to mind.

These people were not welcome from the moment they arrived and people complain about them not integrating. How can you integrate into a society that does not and has never wanted you!

ShooterSF

Really-Stressed wrote: »

How can you integrate into a society that votes for the BNP?

The other possible position to take is that people have started to vote for the BNP because they now realise these people have not integrated and are damaging british society. Which suggests that most people werent anti immigrant initially. Which is rubbish. The phrase no blacks no dogs no Irish on arrival in the place comes to mind.

But show me a party that doesn't ignore the immigration issue but isn't as severe as the BNP. It may be a case of people finding that their views on immigration are likely to be catered for and a lot more by voting BNP. They might not agree with the severity of their beliefs but still vote for them.
There is a lack of shades of grey on the issue.
I really don't think the views the BNP hold are that common in the UK. I may be wrong. I see it as people disgruntled with their current immigration policies having no one else to turn to.

MrMatisse

ShooterSF wrote: »

But show me a party that doesn't ignore the immigration issue but isn't as severe as the BNP. It may be a case of people finding that their views on immigration are likely to be catered for and a lot more by voting BNP. They might not agree with the severity of their beliefs but still vote for them.
There is a lack of shades of grey on the issue.
I really don't think the views the BNP hold are that common in the UK. I may be wrong. I see it as people disgruntled with their current immigration policies having no one else to turn to.

Id say most BNP voters wish there was no immigration at all. They are extremists. This is what happened in Germany. Normal people started to support nutters.

If you cast your vote for a party which is only really interested in throwing out immigrants, paid for a racist cartoon series to be developed aimed at 5 year olds and has developed a youth wing along the lines of hitler youth, not to mention the racist newspapers. You are going the wrong way about raising the immigration issue. The rise of the far right across europe in a time of economic decline is very scary.

getz

Really-Stressed wrote: »

How can you integrate into a society that votes for the BNP?

The other possible position to take is that people have started to vote for the BNP because they now realise these people have not integrated and are damaging british society. Which suggests that most people werent anti immigrant initially. Which is rubbish. The phrase no blacks no dogs no Irish on arrival in the place comes to mind.

These people were not welcome from the moment they arrived and people complain about them not integrating. How can you integrate into a society that does not and has never wanted you!

most irish people came over to england and stayed intergrated and enriched the culture [i know my grandparents did] and i have never once heard any anti/irish comments in fact with one in three people in the uk with a irish ancestor being off irish decent is a possitive thing[now the only place i hear of this blacks /dogs and irish ect seam to be by anti/british irish,this was one of the things that was put out as anti british rhetoric by a republican goverment,[remember i went to school in the republic] i know just what lies the brothers said, anyway very few people ever bothered to vote in the eu elections in the uk, and those that did was only because they had them alongside local elections. one question i would like to ask you would you ever want to go and live in any country that dident want you ? i know i wouldent,

ShooterSF

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Id say most BNP voters wish there was no immigration at all. They are extremists. This is what happened in Germany. Normal people started to support nutters.

If you cast your vote for a party which is only really interested in throwing out immigrants, paid for a racist cartoon series to be developed aimed at 5 year olds and has developed a youth wing along the lines of hitler youth, not to mention the racist newspapers. You are going the wrong way about raising the immigration issue. The rise of the far right across europe in a time of economic decline is very scary.

I totally agree it's the wrong way to raise the issue and have said so in this thread. The difference in our opinions is that I feel the BNP has a tiny extremist support but won it's seat by convincing people with more saner views that they were the best chance to accommodate those views. I don't think people become racist because of economic situations, I think their opinion on immigration changes and not all to an extreme but no party offers a middle ground.

getz

ShooterSF wrote: »

I totally agree it's the wrong way to raise the issue and have said so in this thread. The difference in our opinions is that I feel the BNP has a tiny extremist support but won it's seat by convincing people with more saner views that they were the best chance to accommodate those views. I don't think people become racist because of economic situations, I think their opinion on immigration changes and not all to an extreme but no party offers a middle ground.

why is everyone so excited about the vote for two BNP MEPS ? altogether there are 72 elected MEPs from the UK and you would think by these threads that the word has come to a end,

Rowley Birkin QC

getz wrote: »

why is everyone so excited about the vote for two BNP MEPS ? altogether there are 72 elected MEPs from the UK and you would think by these threads that the word has come to a end,

Any seats for these lunatics is worrying tbh. My girlfriend made the same point this morning but it's not the two seats that's worrying, it's the 943,598 people who voted for them that worry me.

It really is a dark day for the UK.

ShooterSF

getz wrote: »

why is everyone so excited about the vote for two BNP MEPS ? altogether there are 72 elected MEPs from the UK and you would think by these threads that the word has come to a end,

Personally because I fear their extremists views when expressed more publicly will hurt the chances of proper immigration discussion and we will be back to "utopianists" vs "racists" with mud slinging on both sides and no grown up conversation about the issue. I also fear people of similar opinion to me may now be keeping that opinion private while voting for an extremist.
I also do not look forward to the first person quoting a comment of mine on immigration and saying something along the lines "can you smell the BNP member?"

getz

bigkev49 wrote: »

Any seats for these lunatics is worrying tbh. My girlfriend made the same point this morning but it's not the two seats that's worrying, it's the 943,598 people who voted for them that worry me.

It really is a dark day for the UK.

943,589 may sound like a lot of people to ireland but to the uk its a very small amount we have a population of over 60,000,000

Rowley Birkin QC

To be fair, it's a lot of people regardless of the context. The other issue is that they now have a mandate and a platform to spout their bile in Europe.

DB10

Regarding the BNP, people can moan and whinge all they want.
The fact remains the people have spoken and the disgusting treatment of that party from it's objectors such as barracking there leader when he tried to enter the town hall was laughable.


The idiotic vile spoted that anyone votes for them is an idiot is also pathetic. At least voting for them isn't a waste of a vote like the Liberals.

The fact remains the way they have been treated actually makes Griffen look civil and some kind of hero.
Whereas if they were dealt a small amount of respect they would have been stopped alot easier.

future_plans

Was the vote that high? It's even worse than I thought so. An extreme, right wing, racist movement with a million people behind it.

towel401

Ya know the BNP actually have some fairly good ideas. Much like Geert Wilders has. They are not as racist as they let on, and besides its good to have a few racists in the government when everybody else is hell-bent on reverse discrimination. kind of balances things out you know?

DB10

towel401 wrote: »

Ya know the BNP actually have some fairly good ideas. Much like Geert Wilders has. They are not as racist as they let on, and besides its good to have a few racists in the government when everybody else is hell-bent on reverse discrimination. kind of balances things out you know?

I agree. They aren't as bad as the media make out.

Stevek101

DB10 wrote: »

I agree. They aren't as bad as the media make out.

Are you sure about that?

No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms should be allowed to enter government. We would abolish state-supported segregation in education. In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles

One word. Disgusting.

towel401

Stevek101 wrote: »

One word. Disgusting.

Dublin is full of West Brits anyway. We copy everything they do, let them buy our supermarkets, our mobile phone networks, set up their big-box stores here. Go around complaining this country is backwards because not everyone can get broadband and because there aren't as many CCTV cameras here yet. or whatever other reason you can think of that ireland is less technologically advanced. sure they might as well own us anyway.

the irish government is doomed to be forever copying their ideas, whether or not they are good. soon you will start seeing mandatory ID cards, GPS speed limiters in cars and 100% geographic CCTV coverage just because the brits have it.

yeah, we hate the brits. we have our own country but could never finish the job properly. the government still feels the need to copy everything that is british in order to fit in for some unknown greater purpose?

MrMatisse

getz wrote: »

943,589 may sound like a lot of people to ireland but to the uk its a very small amount we have a population of over 60,000,000

When almost a million of your people vote for far right racists you have a problem.

poplulation is 60 million, high proportion of them are children, people who didnt bother to vote or people who cant vote. The proportion of people who have tacitly accepted this type of thinking is scary.

MrMatisse

towel401 wrote: »

yeah, we hate the brits. we have our own country but could never finish the job properly. the government still feels the need to copy everything that is british in order to fit in for some unknown greater purpose?

WTF?

Rowley Birkin QC

DB10 wrote: »

I agree. They aren't as bad as the media make out.

Griffin is a holocaust denier and his supporters are violent thugs.

Then again he does have some kind of superhuman ability to spot British people by looking at them, maybe he should be employed at passport control at an airport somewhere.

towel401

Really-Stressed wrote: »

When almost a million of your people vote for far right racists you have a problem.

poplulation is 60 million, high proportion of them are children, people who didnt bother to vote or people who cant vote. The proportion of people who have tacitly accepted this type of thinking is scary.

these people aren't happy with the status quo. look at the 3 main parties in england, "New Labour" are actually a right wing authoritarian party hell bent on covering england with cameras and other invasive anti-crime measures. The opposition there is worthless, doomed not to have a very strong stance on anything for political correctness reasons. The 3 main parties are far too worried about offending any minority group to get any serious work done. the BNP seem more down to earth, not afraid to say what they mean even though I might not agree with all of it. and like it or not there is such a thing as letting in *too many* immigrants. just because you want to slow the flow of immigrants doesn't mean you're a racist

MrMatisse

towel401 wrote: »

these people aren't happy with the status quo. look at the 3 main parties in england, "New Labour" are actually a right wing authoritarian party hell bent on covering england with cameras and other invasive anti-crime measures. The opposition there is worthless, doomed not to have a very strong stance on anything for political correctness reasons. The 3 main parties are far too worried about offending any minority group to get any serious work done. the BNP seem more down to earth, not afraid to say what they mean even though I might not agree with all of it. and like it or not there is such a thing as letting in *too many* immigrants. just because you want to slow the flow of immigrants doesn't mean you're a racist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSrw9NcBtOc

This type of thing is disgusting.

People say i dont really agree with them but .........

towel401

Really-Stressed wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSrw9NcBtOc

This type of thing is disgusting.

and you can honestly say you don't judge people on how they look?

I know we're all supposed to be politically correct and all but lets face it if you see a slutbag walking down the street there's a 99% chance that she actually is a slutbag.

the race issue is only a small part of what the BNP stands for and even if they did get into government I don't think they can throw out anyone who has already got british citizenship.

MrMatisse

towel401 wrote: »

and you can honestly say you don't judge people on how they look?

I know we're all supposed to be politically correct and all but lets face it if you see a slutbag walking down the street there's a 99% chance that she actually is a slutbag.

the race issue is only a small part of what the BNP stands for and even if they did get into government I don't think they can throw out anyone who has already got british citizenship.

In the video he says he wants poles out of britain too. I wonder how he will identify them?

Numbered tatoo maybe? Yellow star?

The race issue is the main thing they stand for. Hence the racist cartoons they made aimed at five year olds.

I wouldnt design a national policy on the basis of skin colour. They tried it in South Africa. Didnt work.