BNP get seat...

Rowley Birkin QC

I genuinely cannot understand how any right-minded people can fail to see these morons as anything but a throwback to a previous time.

It genuinely bothers me that they got so many votes in our neighboring country.

oscarBravo

DB10 wrote: »

Looks like the freedom of speech is lost on alot of people.
The fact remains Griffen had his car vandalised and eggs thrown at him while being ridiculed by all and sundry.

Those people are the idiots here. Some people act like the BNP and its voters are stupid racist thugs, yet their opposers resort to vigilante justice and verbal insults. They are just as bad as the people they oppose.

There's a problem with your analysis: not everyone who opposes the BNP resorts to vigilante justice and/or verbal insults. On the flipside, pretty much everyone who supports the BNP tacitly condones racism.

DB10 wrote: »

Can I also add that if I was English, and the National Front connections were removed , I would probably have voted for the BNP as well.
And I'm sure if the NF connections were gone they would have done alot better with thousands more behind them.

And by the way I am not scum,racist or a thug.

Scum or thug, fair enough - but it's hard to imagine a reason for voting BNP that doesn't include racism. Maybe you could enlighten me.

Affable

Acacia wrote: »

Y'know, when I read these type of posts I'm not surprised that these clowns got their seats- too many people going about with a persecution complex about 'reverse discrimination' and imagining that the poor indigneous British man is hard done by.

Yeah, except there is an element of truth in it. The white on black violent crimes covered vastly more than the black/asian on white violent crimes for example, because of media fears of fanning flames, even police have been hindered in doing what they need to do because of accusations of racism. (eg polic being more likely to search black people in London, well surprise surprise the target areas are the vey poorest and roughest, thats why people are searched more, but more black people live in these areas, what are they supposed to do?)

Check out the 'Kriss Donald' vs 'Stephen Lawrence' cases for example.

Acacia

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How dare they choose their own membership. Despicable. :mad:

Well, it is discriminatry to only have whites as members. Pretty obvious., I would have thought.

DB10 wrote: »

Looks like the freedom of speech is lost on alot of people.
The fact remains Griffen had his car vandalised and eggs thrown at him while being ridiculed by all and sundry.

Those people are the idiots here. Some people act like the BNP and its voters are stupid racist thugs, yet their opposers resort to vigilante justice and verbal insults. They are just as bad as the people they oppose.

Oh, yes, those poor underdogs , the BNP...

Yes, their freedom of speech was so curtailed that they were allowed stand for election to the European parliament. :rolleyes:

Their supporters' freedom of speech was so curtailed that they were allowed vote for the party of their choice. :rolleyes:

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Congrats to the BNP for the 2 elected MPS, great news the people will no longer be fooled by the elites who dont care about the working class people and the effects immigration has caused to the working class.

As Nodin has pointed out, they only got in because low voting turn-outs.

And what effects does immigration have on the working-class may I ask?

DB10 wrote: »

Can I also add that if I was English, and the National Front connections were removed , I would probably have voted for the BNP as well.
And I'm sure if the NF connections were gone they would have done alot better with thousands more behind them.

And by the way I am not scum,racist or a thug.

If the National Front connections were removed there wouldn't be a whole lot left.

And why would you want to vote for a party that was in any way connected, in the past or present, with the NF?

DB10 wrote: »

The only scum are the NF and the anti BNP followers who attack people physically and verbally for their political views.

Do you have anything to offer to the debate besides bland sloganeering?

A reaction to what Nodin posted about the BNP's vile policies perhaps?

No, like the BNP themselves, it's much easier to stand behind vague slogans than to produce any convincing arguments.

trailerparkboy wrote: »

The BNP are going to clean up in the next general election theres no stoping them now, British people must look after there own people first everyone else second.

Who is everyone else? What about legally British immigrants?

Maybe they see Britain as their home- why should they be forced to leave because they don't fit into the BNP's definition of Britishness?

Yeah, except there is an element of truth in it. The white on black violent crimes covered vastly more than the black/asian on white violent crimes for example, because of media fears of fanning flames, even police have been hindered in doing what they need to do because of accusations of racism. (eg polic being more likely to search black people in London, well surprise surprise the target areas are the vey poorest and roughest, thats why people are searched more, but more black people live in these areas, what are they supposed to do?)

Check out the 'Kriss Donald' vs 'Stephen Lawrence' cases for example

I've asked this twice on the After Hours thread about this and nobody has yet answered me satisfactorily- can anyone give an example of a policy/ law which outright favored or showed preference towards immigrants over native British people in areas of housing, employment, education?

If it were a case that, like Griffin claims the white British working-class were being treated like second-class citizens, you would think there would be some sort of official policy that enforced this. But there's not.

An 'element' of truth or a few examples of extreme 'political correctness' does not national policy make. So that is why I say there is a 'persecution complex'.

In any case, why is the solution to poor coverage of black-on-white crime in the media to 'voluntarily' remove immigrants from the country?

DB10

Anacia the ignorant view that their followers are scum is what the point came across as. And I have addressed that point.

Clearly you are blind if you think I have defended the NF. They are scum as you put it and don't try to twist my words in future.

My point is that some of their policies are not as bad as the media portray and they are the only party in the UK willing to address serious immigration problems.

Acacia

DB10 wrote: »

Anacia the ignorant view that their followers are scum is what the point came across as. And I have addressed that point.

Clearly you are blind if you think I have defended the NF. They are scum as you put it and don't try to twist my words in future.

My point is that some of their policies are not as bad as the media portray and they are the only party in the UK willing to address serious immigration problems.

You were complaining about freedom of speech- which was the point I addressed- not their followers being 'scum'.


Where did I twist your words? You said the NF are scum- the BNP have NF connections- yet you would vote for them- my question is why would you vote for a party that have connections to a group that in your own words (not mine, by the way, you said it)are 'scum'? Seemes a bit bizarre to me.

I've looked at their policies and they certainly do seem to be as bad as the media portrays.

Yes, they are the only party in the UK to address immigration- maybe because immigration issues aren't as big a deal as they make out?

DB10

Acacia wrote: »

You were complaining about freedom of speech- which was the point I addressed- not their followers being 'scum'.


Where did I twist your words? You said the NF are scum- the BNP have NF connections- yet you would vote for them- my question is why would you vote for a party that have connections to a group that in your own words are 'scum'? Seemes a bit bizarre to me.

I've looked at their policies and they certainly do seem to be as bad as the media portrays.

Yes, they are the only party in the UK to address immigration- maybe because immigration issues aren't as big a deal as they make out?

I said I would vote for a party with their immigration policies yet not the BNP because of the Nazi NF connections. Get it right.

If you seriously believe immigration isn't a problem in the UK then your are deluded.

Extreme radical Muslims preaching their vile all over the country.
Floodgates open to millions of illegals who come in and work for half the minimium wage.
The country is gone overboard on political correctness so much so there is reverse discrimination.

Iwasfrozen

Acacia wrote:

Well, it is discriminatry to only have whites as members. Pretty obvious., I would have thought.

They have as much a right to discriminate as you do not to discriminate.

Acacia wrote:

Oh, yes, those poor underdogs , the BNP...

Yes, their freedom of speech was so curtailed that they were allowed stand for election to the European parliament.

Their supporters' freedom of speech was so curtailed that they were allowed vote for the party of their choice.

Becareful here, it's very easy to get lost in eyerolls and forget the real issue.
Nobody is saying that the British public as a whole curtails freedom of speech and the freedom to elect a party that the majority of people want representing them. What we are saying is that there are some people in Britain that feel they would rather not recognise the Democratic voice of the people in North West England and instead throw eggs when they don't get their way. [Ahem Lid Democrats]

As Nodin has pointed out, they only got in because low voting turn-outs.

And what effects does immigration have on the working-class may I ask?

Immigration dilutes the culture of it's host nation. For example Islam is far flung desert religion that historically has had no place in european history save the crusades.
Why should Britain or any other western nation recognise Islam as a religion ?

Acacia wrote:

Who is everyone else? What about legally British immigrants?

Maybe they see Britain as their home- why should they be forced to leave because they don't fit into the BNP's definition of Britishness?

Have you even read the BNP's policies nobody is throwing anybody out of anywhere. The BNP would offer incentives for Immigrants to leave.
It's abit to long to post here but you can find all information here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/BNP_uk_manifesto.pdf

Acacia wrote:

I've asked this twice on the After Hours thread about this and nobody has yet answered me satisfactorily- can anyone give an example of a policy/ law which outright favored or showed preference towards immigrants over native British people in areas of housing, employment, education?

If it were a case that, like Griffin claims the white British working-class were being treated like second-class citizens, you would think there would be some sort of official policy that enforced this. But there's not.

An 'element' of truth or a few examples of extreme 'political correctness' does not national policy make. So that is why I say there is a 'persecution complex'.

In any case, why is the solution to poor coverage of black-on-white crime in the media to 'voluntarily' remove immigrants from the country?

The truth is we cannot give you direct examples. Thats's not to say that these atrocities do not happen, only that they are not recorded by any credible media form for fear of being labeled a racist, Such is the extent of the damage our P.C world has inflicted upon our population.
These atrocities are happening to namless people in nameless places, like Joe Bloggs and his mates being fired because some Irish Ferry service can pay an eastern european for 1/2 the price.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

For example Islam is far flung desert religion that historically has had no place in european history save the crusades.
Why should Britain or any other western nation recognise Islam as a religion ?.

Actually Christianity is also a far flung desert Judaeo-Greco cult which was in many instances imposed by Crusades.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The truth is we cannot give you direct examples. Thats's not to say that these atrocities do not happen, only that they are not recorded by any credible media form for fear of being labeled a racist, Such is the extent of the damage our P.C world has inflicted upon our population.

So it's a conspiracy, is it?

Rowley Birkin QC

We can go round and round in circles about the BNP but let me state one simple fact; the British National Party does not admit certain members of society based on the colour of their skin.

Can anyone, cognisant of that one simple fact, continue to defend these people?

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote:

Actually Christianity is also a far flung desert Judaeo-Greco cult which was in many instances imposed by Crusades.

Of course it is but Christianity has shaped the culture of this Continent and is embeded in the very essence of Europe.
Islam has not influenced Europe in any way like Christainity, I'm sorry but you'll have to do better then that.

Nodin wrote:

So it's a conspiracy, is it?

Nothing Conspiracy like about it. Just greedy business owners looking to maxamise profits by employing people who will work for less money.
In a way you can't blaim them, if there where less immigrant workers then this option wouldn't be available to them.

bigkev49 wrote:

We can go round and round in circles about the BNP but let me state one simple fact; the British National Party does not admit certain members of society based on the colour of their skin.

Can anyone, cognisant of that one simple fact, continue to defend these people?

Did you even read my last post ?

Iwasfrozen wrote:

They have as much a right to discriminate as you do not to discriminate.

Rowley Birkin QC

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Did you even read my last post ?

Yes I did. Have you an answer to my question?

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Islam has not influenced Europe in any way like Christainity, I'm sorry but you'll have to do better then that.

I wasn't aware past influence should have any bearing on it, particularily in light of the mixed baggage attached to Christianity. Singling out Christianity over Islam is a case of 'my invisible man is bigger than yours', as far as I'm concerned. In this case it seems to be motivated by the usual islamophobic hysteria.

bill_ashmount

bigkev49 wrote: »

I genuinely cannot understand how any right-minded people can fail to see these morons as anything but a throwback to a previous time.

It genuinely bothers me that they got so many votes in our neighboring country.

It's blatantly obvious why they are getting the votes. How people can't see it is beyond me. Anyone with concerns about the level of immigration has only a very limited choice in Britain, the BNP or possibly UKIP. The conservatives, liberals, labour won't discuss it.

If I was British I wouldn't vote BNP, they have too many ridiculous policies but I can see why people would in order to show there frustration with the current immigration setup.

This issue will be coming to Ireland fairly soon too, no point denying it, none of the main parties will discuss the issue, they are too afraid of damaging their political careers.

By the way I'd be a supporter of Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, I don't care what anyone here thinks. I like a lot of his policies, not all though.

Immigration is going to be the biggest issue facing Europe in the next 50 years.

Rowley Birkin QC

bill_ashmount wrote: »

It's blatantly obvious why they are getting the votes. How people can't see it is beyond me. Anyone with concerns about the level of immigration has only a very limited choice in Britain, the BNP or possibly UKIP. The conservatives, liberals, labour won't discuss it.

If I was British I wouldn't vote BNP, they have too many ridiculous policies but I can see why people would in order to show there frustration with the current immigration setup.

This issue will be coming to Ireland fairly soon too, no point denying it, none of the main parties will discuss the issue, they are too afraid of damaging their political careers.

By the way I'd be a supporter of Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, I don't care what anyone here thinks. I like a lot of his policies, not all though.

Immigration is going to be the biggest issue facing Europe in the next 50 years.

Fair enough, but for me they could have the best policies in the world but my principles would not allow me to vote for someone who judges and fraternises with someone based on the colour of their skin.

bill_ashmount

bigkev49 wrote: »

Fair enough, but for me they could have the best policies in the world but my principles would not allow me to vote for someone who judges and fraternises with someone based on the colour of their skin.

I agree, I have seen some of the stuff they are involved in and it would make you sick.

Mad Finn

getz wrote: »

last week hartlepool voted in as mayor the same man, dressed as a monkey for the third year in succession

You are aware of the local nickname for Hartlepudlians and why?

Dressing up as a moneky is just a local joke.

I'm sure most of the people voting for him got it.

Iwasfrozen

Nordin wrote:

I wasn't aware past influence should have any bearing on it, particularily in light of the mixed baggage attached to Christianity. Singling out Christianity over Islam is a case of 'my invisible man is bigger than yours', as far as I'm concerned. In this case it seems to be motivated by the usual islamophobic hysteria.

When you're talking about culture then yeah History and past influences have a bearing on "it". What other religion has shaped our continent more then Christianity ?
Also I'm an Atheist so I don't have an Invisible Man.

bigkev49 wrote:

Yes I did. Have you an answer to my question?

Iwasfrozen wrote:

They have as much a right to discriminate as you do not to discriminate.

ionix5891

bnp are a very scary bunch

see these policies of theirs:

"The British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.

We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
"

We need the Labour Government to introduce more DNA testing of innocent people. If theres nothing to hide, then theres nothing to fear.

"We support the re-introduction of corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals, and the restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute, as by DNA evidence or being caught red-handed."

The BNP will select jobs for people of white skin over others. Also brands such as Microsoft, Samsung & Sony to name but a few will have to made in the UK or they wont be imported.

"We also call for preference in the job market to be given to native Britons.""Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. "

Iwasfrozen

Introduce more DNA testing of innocent people. If theres nothing to hide, then theres nothing to fear.

Yes, do you have a point ?

The BNP will select jobs for people of white skin over others. Also brands such as Microsoft, Samsung & Sony to name but a few will have to made in the UK or they wont be imported.

Yes, most British are white skinned you know.

wes

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, do you have a point ?

If people are innocent, there is no need to have there DNA on file.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, most British are white skinned you know.

So? There is a sizeable minority that isn't white. Do you think it ok to discriminate based soley on skin colour? Would you discrminate based on height, hair colour, hand size or any other arbitrary criteria?!?

**EDIT**
Should it not be the best person for the job, regardless of skin colour? Seems like sane way to go about things.

djpbarry

Rb wrote: »

Ireland is also beginning to turn in the same direction re: immigration. A lot of people have simply had enough of it and want change and the first people to publicly support that are going to get the numbers.

Oh well that explains why Patrick Talbot won the Dublin Central by-election. Oh, wait now…

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

A real and proper debate on immigration and integration needs to happen in this country.

What exactly would this involve?

towel401 wrote: »

Ya know the BNP actually have some fairly good ideas.

I’d love to hear them?

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Congrats to the BNP for the 2 elected MPS, great news the people will no longer be fooled by the elites who dont care about the working class people and the effects immigration has caused to the working class.

Which effects are these?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They've gotten more publicity now, also as they now have representation in the European parliment the BBc is going to have to recognise them as a real party and afford them more air time.

More opportunities for the heroic Nick Griffin to cover himself in glory.

DB10 wrote: »

Extreme radical Muslims preaching their vile all over the country.

I believe they also have problems with extremist “Christian” groups spouting their racist bile all over the country.

DB10 wrote: »

The country is gone overboard on political correctness so much so there is reverse discrimination.

How does this reverse discrimination manifest itself?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

These atrocities are happening to namless people in nameless places, like Joe Bloggs and his mates being fired because some Irish Ferry service can pay an eastern european for 1/2 the price.

I’m not sure an individual losing their job constitutes an atrocity.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Of course it is but Christianity has shaped the culture of this Continent and is embeded in the very essence of Europe.
Islam has not influenced Europe in any way like Christainity...

Depends on what part of Europe you are referring to. Been to Córdoba lately?

bill_ashmount wrote: »

This issue will be coming to Ireland fairly soon too, no point denying it, none of the main parties will discuss the issue, they are too afraid of damaging their political careers.

You’ve brought your concerns to the attention of your local TD’s and they refused to discuss them with you?

Iwasfrozen

wes wrote:

If people are innocent, there is no need to have there DNA on file.

Yes there is, it will make it alot easier for Police to solve crime.

wes wrote:

So? There is a sizeable minority that isn't white. Do you think it ok to discriminate based soley on skin colour? Would you discrminate based on height, hair colour, hand size or any other arbitrary criteria?!?

**EDIT**
Should it not be the best person for the job, regardless of skin colour? Seems like sane way to go about things.

No I wouldn't. Nor would I discriminate against non-whites either, as long as a person is fully integrated into their new host country be that Ireland or UK then there isn't a problem.

djpbarry wrote:

I’m not sure an individual losing their job constitutes an atrocity.

An individual losing there job isn't an atrocity, alas we aren't talking about individuals.

djpbarry wrote:

Depends on what part of Europe you are referring to. Been to Córdoba lately?

You are basing your arguement on a single Spanish Province with 1million > x people ?

gizmo555

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You are basing your arguement on a single Spanish Province with 1million > x people ?

OK, what about the Ottoman Empire which at it's zenith included vast territories in Greece, Hungary and the Balkans?

What about the contributions of the Muslim world to science and mathematics? (Ever tried doing long division with Roman numerals?)

Acacia

Okay, this is an insanely long post so bear with me. :pac:

DB10 wrote: »

I said I would vote for a party with their immigration policies yet not the BNP because of the Nazi NF connections. Get it right.

No, this is what you said.

DB10 wrote: »

Can I also add that if I was English, and the National Front connections were removed , I would probably have voted for the BNP as well.

Not a party 'with their immigration policies'- "I would have voted for the BNP'. So please forgive me for not 'getting it right' when you haven't made yourself very clear.

Back-paddle much?

DB10 wrote: »

If you seriously believe immigration isn't a problem in the UK then your are deluded.

Please enlighten me as to how it's so much of a problem that immigrants must be 'voluntarily repatriated'?

The BNP have been around for much longer than this current crisis. Which leads me to believe their push to get immigrants out is more about racism and xenophobia than economics, to be perfectly honest.
[
quote=DB10;60611126]

Extreme radical Muslims preaching their vile all over the country.
Floodgates open to millions of illegals who come in and work for half the minimium wage.
The country is gone overboard on political correctness so much so there is reverse discrimination.[/quote]

Ah, the usual suspects- the Muslim bogeymen, 'they duk our jawbs' and the old 'reverse discrimination'.

Firstly, a number of Islamic extremists does not mean every Muslim is a 'preaching vile all over the country' and frankly I have more of problem with the vile which the BNP is preaching. In any case, why should a few extremists lead to immigrants being unwelcome and made to feel unwanted, en masse?

Secondly, why not get angry with the employers who are giving jobs to cheap illegals, rather than the immigrants themselves? And you're clouding the issue now- is it illegal immigrants or all immigrants who are the problem?

Legal immigrants have a right to work wherever they want. Does being born on a certain part of the planet mean you have to stay there your whole life?

Again, and nobody has answered me yet- what policy is there in place that ensures reverse discrimination against native white Britons?

Oh yes, there isn't one.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They have as much a right to discriminate as you do not to discriminate.

Rights? Of course they have the right- that was the point I was making earlier- they had the right to take their vile policies all the way to the European Parliament- hardly likely if they were truly second-class citizens.

So discrimination against non-whites is okay then?

It's only so-called 'reverse discrimination' (which the BNP are sooo against) that's a problem?


Sorry, I don't buy that, and I've no time for a party that discriminates against somebody based on the color of their skin.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Becareful here, it's very easy to get lost in eyerolls and forget the real issue.
Nobody is saying that the British public as a whole curtails freedom of speech and the freedom to elect a party that the majority of people want representing them. What we are saying is that there are some people in Britain that feel they would rather not recognise the Democratic voice of the people in North West England and instead throw eggs when they don't get their way. [Ahem Lid Democrats]

DB10 said " a lot people don't seem to get the concept of freedom of speech" (I'm paraphrasing here.) I said nobody's freedom of speech has been curtailed- I dont agree with the egg throwing.

The BNP were democratically elected to the EU parilament- hardly likely if they were really representing second-class citizens or victims of discrimination. Or their freedom of speech was being curtailed.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why should Britain or any other western nation recognise Islam as a religion ?

Ehh...because it is one, maybe?

It's funny how the BNP changed their bogeyman from the Jews to the Muslims. Mostly, I'm guessing, because the Sun and Sky News have people terrified of them.

The BNP have picked up on this Islamaphobia and are using it to scapegoat Muslims. It's disgusting and reminds me of the Nazis' treatment of the Jews , pre-World War 2.

And how does immigration dilute the host culture? If you want to keep your culture then embrace it and promote it instead of seeking to drive out foreigners.More scape-goating.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Have you even read the BNP's policies nobody is throwing anybody out of anywhere. The BNP would offer incentives for Immigrants to leave.
It's abit to long to post here but you can find all information here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/BNP_uk_manifesto.pdf

Thanks for the link. I have indeed read their policies, and even leaving out the blatant racism and immigration issues, they appear stark raving loco. No imports of certain foreign goods? Corporal punishment? What planet are they living on, seriously?

I know the immigrants are not being forced out at gun point exactly- but why should they be asked ( or 'encouraged') to leave? If they want to leave fine, if they see Britain as their home and they're there legally, it's not up to Nick Griffin and his party to suggest they 'go home'.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The truth is we cannot give you direct examples. Thats's not to say that these atrocities do not happen, only that they are not recorded by any credible media form for fear of being labeled a racist, Such is the extent of the damage our P.C world has inflicted upon our population.
These atrocities are happening to namless people in nameless places, like Joe Bloggs and his mates being fired because some Irish Ferry service can pay an eastern european for 1/2 the price.

Just as I thought. There are no direct examples because there are no offical laws or policies which favor immigrants over native white Britons.

The BNP are only angry because there are no laws or policies which favor whites over immigrants.

In other words, discrimination is fine, as long as it works in their favor.

As for the media being too 'PC'- read the Irish Independent lately? The Daily Mail? The Sun?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, most British are white skinned you know.

In this day and age why the hell is skin color even an issue.

So what if a person is brown, black, white, yellow- the right person for the job should get it.

Anything else is racism- that's not being PC- it's stating a fact.


I have to say I'm shocked at the support the BNP are getting. God help Europe if more of their ilk get into power.

djpbarry

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nor would I discriminate against non-whites either, as long as a person is fully integrated into their new host country be that Ireland or UK then there isn't a problem.

Define "integrated".

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

An individual losing there job isn't an atrocity, alas we aren't talking about individuals.

Oh, we're not? Pray tell of this great atrocity that has been overlooked by the mass media?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You are basing your arguement on a single Spanish Province with 1million > x people ?

No, I was merely using it as an example. As has already been pointed out, much of Southern Europe has been directly influenced by Islam at one point or another, while the worlds of science and mathematics have been heavily influenced by the Muslim world.

Point is, dismissing Islam as "foreign" while embracing Christianity is beyond hypocrisy.

Scofflaw

gizmo555 wrote: »

OK, what about the Ottoman Empire which at it's zenith included vast territories in Greece, Hungary and the Balkans?

What about the contributions of the Muslim world to science and mathematics? (Ever tried doing long division with Roman numerals?)

How about the Roman state religion, many of whose better tenets were adopted by Christianity, whose ideals (gravitas, pietas, dignitas, iustitia) Christianity merely added caritas to, whose outlook on law informs European law, whose republican forms were followed by ours, whose notions of divinity, beauty, justice etc inform our own, and so on?

Christianity, in its original form, is a Middle Eastern mystical offshoot of Judaism with very little resemblance to our Christianity. Christianity's early adoption by, and struggle within, a classical and neo-Platonist intellectual milieu imbued it with far more of its present character than did the thoughts of Jesus or the early apostles.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Acacia

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nothing Conspiracy like about it. Just greedy business owners looking to maxamise profits by employing people who will work for less money.
In a way you can't blaim them, if there where less immigrant workers then this option wouldn't be available to them.

So employers exploiting cheap immigrant workers is the immigrants' fault?

Bo11ocks.

If the employers were made to pay a fair wage to everyone- immigrant or native- the option to exploit cheap labor would not be available to them.


Get angry with the greedy business owners- they're the ones in position of power-not the immigrants.

sceptre

gizmo555 wrote: »

What about the contributions of the Muslim world to science and mathematics? (Ever tried doing long division with Roman numerals?)

It's worth noting that what we call Arabic numbers are called "Hindu numbers" by Arabs. That's because the Indians invented the positional decimal numerical system, though Arabs spread it further afield after they imported it from India via the Persian mathematicians in the middle.

Mind you, Arab mathematicians did some excellent work on algebra, though that was invented by the Babylonians. There's a terrible tendency to credit everything that came from that entire world-region to the Arabs (though they did, as I say, do some good work), forgetting about the Indians and the Persians in particular.

wes

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes there is, it will make it alot easier for Police to solve crime.

So we should keep innocent peoples DNA on file for the sake of convenience? DNA isn't even as fool proof as some people, would like to think. Its just another tool in an arsenal to solve crimes. I personally don't think its one that is worth violating a entire countries privacy over however.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No I wouldn't. Nor would I discriminate against non-whites either, as long as a person is fully integrated into their new host country be that Ireland or UK then there isn't a problem.

Fair enough, but the BNP judge on skin colour alone. They try and dress it up as something else, but when it comes down to it, they just don't like people who skins is a different colour from theres.