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lisbon in other countries

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    #92
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    i didnt mention cowen there, that was another post


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    #93
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    It's democracy Czech-style in action. As I've already said, if the Czech constitution didn't envisage parliament and the president ever disagreeing, there would have been no point giving the president this power.

    I never said he wasn't doing anything not in his power, and tbh I don't care how the Czech's run their democracy. I'm just making a general observation that 1 person out of 500 million stopping a process can't be deemed particularly democratic, even if it is within his right.
    gizmo555 wrote: »
    All the major parties here are in favour of Lisbon, yet we're still able to distinguish between voting for a political party in a general election and voting against a proposition that that party favours in a referendum

    Is there much clamour in the streets of Prague at Klaus's refusal to sign the treaty?

    No, I don't hear of any unrest on Prague, but neither is there any unrest in Paris over not having a referendum. You made the point that Sarkozy is declining to have a referendum, but there's no indication that the French are particularly unhappy about it.

    I get the impression that you believe that all countries should hold referendums. My own view is that, firstly, I don't care how other countries go about their ratification processes. Secondly, where the issue is so complex that the population will not (or cannot) educate themselves properly on the issue, then referendums are not a sound mechanism for a country to base their position on. So if takes two referendums here to ensure that people are sufficiently knowledgeable about the issues in Lisbon, then I'm all for a second referendum. I genuinely just want our decision to be a rational, knowledgeable one, otherwise we don't deserve referendums.


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    #94
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    i didnt mention cowen there, that was another post

    Eh, what? The post I quoted was about Cowen not reading the Treaty...:confused:


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    #95
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    Eh, what? The post I quoted was about Cowen not reading the Treaty...:confused:

    You'll get used to him doing that...
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60592847&postcount=48


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    #96
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    I get the impression that you believe that all countries should hold referendums. My own view is that, firstly, I don't care how other countries go about their ratification processes.
    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    he really has to sign it. Not signing it would be about as undemocratic an act as you could get.

    Some inconsistency here?


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    #97
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Some inconsistency here?

    Not really. I already said it was something of a throw-away comment. Again, I don't care what the Czech's do, and again I'm only making the general observation that one person out of 500 million..... ah screw it, what's the point? You know the point I'm trying to make, and it's really not that important anyway. GL.


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    #98
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    Not really. I already said it was something of a throw-away comment. Again, I don't care what the Czech's do, and again I'm only making the general observation that one person out of 500 million..... ah screw it, what's the point? You know the point I'm trying to make, and it's really not that important anyway. GL.

    Yes, I know the point you're trying to make and it applies equally well to any of the heads of government of the EU. If any one of them chose to, he or she could have blocked the Lisbon Treaty and been that one person out of 500 million. It may yet happen with David Cameron in the UK.

    It only seems to be an issue with you in this case because Klaus is against Lisbon and you're not . . .


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    #99
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    You'll get used to him doing that...
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60592847&postcount=48

    you didnt bold the part in that post that says beside the new referendum vote.....


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    #100
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    you didnt bold the part in that post that says beside the new referendum vote.....

    You stated an opinion as fact, 'the part in that post that says beside the new referendum vote'

    I called you on it, and then in your very next post, you claimed you asked 'where did I say fact'

    Let me be as clear as I can.

    You state in relation to a second referendum vote
    to state there is no need for it is fact

    However, this is merely your opinion, and not a fact. I called you on it, and said you are passing off your opinion as fact.

    You then asked...
    where did i say fact?

    And at that point I gave up dealing with you in exasperation, merely asking a rhetorical 'are you for real?'.


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    #101
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    While this thread is mostly now going in circles in a different universe to its original purpose, there's another thread here tailor-made to go in circles in the same universe this one now occupies. Go use that before I check it out to see if it still has redeeming qualities and quality discussion to allow me to keep it open.


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