MAJOR DSL PROBLEMS PLEASE HELP

ryanch09

Hi.

for the past 2 years my dsl has been slow and unreliable. for about 6-8 hours during the day i get full speeds(1024kbps) but in the evening the dsl goes and to get it working i have to make a phone call. When it works again the speed is only about 288kbps. Eircom have replaced the line coming into the house and i have tried putting the router into the main socket where the new line was installed. Still the same problems. I moved it back to its original place at an extension socket witch has an old cable running to it. Today i rewired the main socket. After i did that the speed was back to full and i thought i had fixed it but about an hour ago it slowed down to 512kbps again. I have absolutely no idea whats wrong with it could anybody help?

Thanks much appreciated!!!!!!

MunsterCycling

Location, ISP and what else is plugged into the other sockets in the house.

MC

ryanch09

im in sligo i have bt 1mb broadband the router is a netopia 2247nwg and there is nothing else in any other socket. i have a wired telephone plugged into the main socket and a wireless telephone plugged into the extension with my router in the same socket. all the microfilters are installed

dub45

Have you tried your router in the main socket with everything else disconnected?

MunsterCycling

Line stats?

And try it with no filter too.


http://(your_router_IP)/indexExptStatRES.htm?adslRES.htm fill in your routers IP and you'll find the stats at the above address.

MC

ryanch09

yes i have tried it with everything else disconnected here are my stats from 9/6/09 at 12:02 am:

Line State Up

Modulation DMT

Data Path Interleave

Max allowed speed:
Downstream 288kbps
Upstream 128kbps

SN Margin
Downstream 6.50
Upstream 15.00

Line Attenuation (dB)
Downstream 46.50
Upstream 31.50

CRC Errors
Downstream 62
Upstream 3

*My downstream speed should be 1024kbps and and upstream speed is always 128kbps

dub45

How far are you from the exchange?

Unfortunately your line stats are pretty disastrous:(

ryanch09

sorry im not sure how far i am. the connection is like that every night

brk3

Mate Im in Sligo too and am having MAJOR problems with their DSL.

The speed is bad (1 meg) but I can accept that, what I is absolutely driving me insane though is the constant loss of sync, i.e. the Internet light on the router goes red. This happens randomly every 3 minutes to half hour, and is making things like online gaming impossible.

I have a degree in computer science and so am fairly literate with these kind of things, but just cannot get to the bottom of this. I've tried most things suggested throughout the internets such as setting the router connection to 'always on' etc. but no use.

Sorry if this seems like hijacking your thread a little just thought Id throw this in seen as your located in Sligo and having similar Eircom woes.

Im gonna ring them in the morning but Id put my life savings on it they're gonna be zero help

dub45

Line stats?

MunsterCycling

Thats it Dub45 whip em into shape, guys and gals if you need help please please please read the sticky and at the very least post the ISP, line stats, location and exchange (the smart line checker is easy to use) and of course current package. That info will be a starting place to assist.

MC

cpu-dude

ryanch09 wrote: »

yes i have tried it with everything else disconnected here are my stats from 9/6/09 at 12:02 am:

Line State Up

Modulation DMT

Data Path Interleave

Max allowed speed:
Downstream 288kbps
Upstream 128kbps

SN Margin
Downstream 6.50
Upstream 15.00

Line Attenuation (dB)
Downstream 46.50
Upstream 31.50

CRC Errors
Downstream 62
Upstream 3

*My downstream speed should be 1024kbps and and upstream speed is always 128kbps

I'd believe it was to do with your distance from the exchange if it wasn't to do with your attenuation - 46 dB should give you a max of 2MB and your 1MB profile (which should be 1024) is giving you 288 kbps. This would only happen because of the setup in your house. I suggest you unplug absolutely everything off your lines in the house (including Sky, monitored house alarms, phones, faxes and filters) and connect just your Broadband to your main telephone point (Eircom NTU, usually in the hall) and check your line stats again.

johnplayerblue

As the lads said ryan theres very little that can be done given your line stats, a signal/noise margin of 6.50 on a 1meg connection is pretty disastrous as dub45 said but all is not lost, you at least have a connection which is something to work with.

After two years you more than likley have made peace with the fact you will never get anything above the 1meg that you kinda have right now so lets work with that and at the very least try and get it stable and reliable for you.

Firstly, if i were you id stop calling the isp as they could very well discontinue services to you given your line stats. I read a post here last week where a guy had his service stopped for the same issue although i think his connection was working but rather than the isp get a bad rep they just discontinue service.

Besides theres not a thing they can do as its almost certanly down to the distance limitations of dsl.

The second thing that I would do is move back to eircom, your stats wont change but your chances of geting ANYTHING done with your line are very slim but been with a reseller theres zero hope of anything been done for you, officially or unofficially.

The third thing I would do is change modem/router. All modems are equal but some are more equal than others and that 2247 although very well speced out on the software side is not great at holding onto a low s/n margin where as an older speedtouch or a netgear dg834gt will hold as low as 3dbs or so.

I have both and use the netgear, also theres a fantastic little bit of software called DMT (google) that works with both of these routers and allows you to balance between speed and a relible connection and could do wonders for someone like you on a low s/n/m.

Fifth is cable, you say eircom replaced the line to your house and that you replaced some wiring also which is good but something better would be to replace the wiring from socket to point of entry with cat 5/5e or cat6.

In my case i took the main socket from the wall and its now in the attic about 5ft from poe and replaced the cable run with cat6 and just put an rj11 both ends. This can put people of but its no bother, just keep track of what you are doing and what you want to do and a camera can be very usefull if your memory is anything like mine.

The sixth thing you can do is read, read and read some more and a very good starting point is this site http://www.kitz.co.uk/index.htm if you know what your up aginst its a little easyer to get your head around and at the end of the day were only gona get maybe a db or two out of this whole thing but a db or two means the difference between a resync or not.

You could also try different filters cos at the end of the day nobody can help you only yourself and so you have to try every thing you can and when you have done that try it again. Theres other things i could mention but this post is long enough but i think if you try the last couple you will see a difference.

Before i did all these things i had a 6.50 margin on a 2meg connection and after a good bit of sweat and foul language and help from the lads here i have the below stats for the last 1500hrs without a resync so it does work. Also im 2.4mls from exchange on some pretty nasty old copper.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7584 kbps 672 kbps
Line Attenuation 48.0 db 28.0 db
Noise Margin 5.9 db 11.0 db

brk3

SNR Margin: 13.00 18.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 61.00 31.50 dB
Output Power: 13.19 0.00 dB
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 1
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 2 1
Data Rate: 1024 128

The SNR Margin can drop from any thing from 7.5 to 1.5(!!) which Im having a good guess is when the modem drops sync. Im really worried its like you said though, that it's just we're that far from the exchange and theres nothing really we can do about it.
Petition them to add another exchange? Fund raise around the neighbours to finance it??

johnplayerblue

brk3 wrote: »

SNR Margin: 13.00 18.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 61.00 31.50 dB
Output Power: 13.19 0.00 dB
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 1
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 2 1
Data Rate: 1024 128

The SNR Margin can drop from any thing from 7.5 to 1.5(!!) which Im having a good guess is when the modem drops sync. Im really worried its like you said though, that it's just we're that far from the exchange and theres nothing really we can do about it.
Petition them to add another exchange? Fund raise around the neighbours to finance it??

Thats never gona happen dude, they would take your money ok but thats where it would end :pac: :pac: :pac:

A drop from 7.5 to 1.5 is fairly severe and i think your attenuation may be on the outer limits. Contention on that line is showing up your attenuation for what it really is im afraid, the other guy has a better chance of improvement than you but dsl can be a fickle fcuker.

brk3

johnplayerblue wrote: »

Thats never gona happen dude, they would take your money ok but thats where it would end :pac: :pac: :pac:

Ha I know, just sort of clutching at straws

Yeah I dunno, I suppose it's good we have DSL at all seen as we were stuck on the worst dial up you've ever seen up until only about 2 years ago.
I'd just love to know why some days, i.e. 2-3 days in a row we can go without a resync then others every single game of Halo I start is interrupted by that damn red light!

Is there any way of finding out exactly how far you are from the exchange bar ringing up and asking?

johnplayerblue

The surest way is to find the exchange and set the odometer in your car to zero and follow the line to your place. I think a lot of towns run the cable under ground till just outside the town but the distance will me much the same.

If things are good for 2-3 days then id suspect an interference someplace along the line...! is there any heavy industry along the line maybe, heavy electrical motors in use, factorys and the like.

I really would start at home first and then work outwards

ryanch09

hey everyone thanks for your responses but does anybody know where in sligo i could buy some replacement cables?

lucernarian

bk3's line stats look simply like a long line. Though improving on internal wiring helps, the master socket stuff and filters etc. Extensions = more potential problems.

Not sure what to make of ryan's line stats. My rule of thumb is that attenuation measurements below 50 dB are usually accurate, so the line looks like it's about 4km long. That is definitely within DSL's limits for 1024/128. I've stable 1024/128 with 6.5 km, and so have several others. Certainly, the attenuation isn't terrible.

**Things to do**

Temporarily disconnect everything, so that you're just left with the new phone line going into a single undamaged socket. No extensions, no extra wires, nothing. There should just be a pair of wires connected behind/inside the socket.

Use the one splitter, with the ordinary corded phone in the black socket of the filter and the modem going into the grey socket on the filter. (this is pretty much like the other advice so far)

Let this work for 2 days. Make a note of every time disconnects happen, and see if it coincides with *anything* else electrical or whatever. E.g. Lighting (inside or outside), heating thermostats, pumps for water or shower. Also, when you're looking at stats, refresh the page a few times as the signal margin numbers can vary a bit. If you've refreshed a few times in 10 seconds and the signal margin varies a lot, let us know.

Ask any neighbours who could have broadband to see if they're having problems with the internet, especially if they're using eircom/bt/perlico etc.

See how you manage with those ideas! I know you're getting advice from all directions, my list is to rule out as many possibilities as possible so we dont waste time fixing non-problems.


PS. There's an am radio trick which I've seen Watty and SB mention before, I'll pm for info.

ryanch09

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

bk3's line stats look simply like a long line. Though improving on internal wiring helps, the master socket stuff and filters etc. Extensions = more potential problems.

Not sure what to make of ryan's line stats. My rule of thumb is that attenuation measurements below 50 dB are usually accurate, so the line looks like it's about 4km long. That is definitely within DSL's limits for 1024/128. I've stable 1024/128 with 6.5 km, and so have several others. Certainly, the attenuation isn't terrible.

**Things to do**

Temporarily disconnect everything, so that you're just left with the new phone line going into a single undamaged socket. No extensions, no extra wires, nothing. There should just be a pair of wires connected behind/inside the socket.

Use the one splitter, with the ordinary corded phone in the black socket of the filter and the modem going into the grey socket on the filter. (this is pretty much like the other advice so far)

Let this work for 2 days. Make a note of every time disconnects happen, and see if it coincides with *anything* else electrical or whatever. E.g. Lighting (inside or outside), heating thermostats, pumps for water or shower. Also, when you're looking at stats, refresh the page a few times as the signal margin numbers can vary a bit. If you've refreshed a few times in 10 seconds and the signal margin varies a lot, let us know.

Ask any neighbours who could have broadband to see if they're having problems with the internet, especially if they're using eircom/bt/perlico etc.

See how you manage with those ideas! I know you're getting advice from all directions, my list is to rule out as many possibilities as possible so we dont waste time fixing non-problems.


PS. There's an am radio trick which I've seen Watty and SB mention before, I'll pm for info.

thanks i tried all those things still having problems. but today i just discovered another telephone cable running from the attic down the side of the house to the same point as my main line. i think that cable leads to some extension sockets upstairs but theres nothing connected to those. Would that still cause the interrference even if theres nothing in the upstairs extension sockets??

also could someone please post a diagram of the typical wiring in an irish home to help me identify anything in between? Thanks!!!!

lucernarian

What I had in mind was to disconnect all wires, apart from one: The wire that comes into the house will usually go to a socket, the master socket. Any other wire going near that socket is to be disconnected! No exceptions, even if you haven't seen the cable before. When we finally got DSL, I had to disconnect the extensions as even though everything was filtered, the modem struggled to sync. Now i've got a special faceplate with the filter built into it which fixes that.


I don't think there is a typical wiring, there's the right way and then there's everything else! And about the other question, yes it can. That was the case with us at home. There are literally thousands of ways a wire can pick up noise in the home. So unless you have the special master socket: the fewer extensions and cable and connected stuff etc. you have, the better!

Sorry if it looks like I'm repeating advice, I'm not trying to fix the problem just yet. I'm trying to find it first!
Oh that's great that you've tried all the suggestions. So what did the neighbours say when you asked them, and what times were the disconnects happening at??

ryanch09

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What I had in mind was to disconnect all wires, apart from one: The wire that comes into the house will usually go to a socket, the master socket. Any other wire going near that socket is to be disconnected! No exceptions, even if you haven't seen the cable before. When we finally got DSL, I had to disconnect the extensions as even though everything was filtered, the modem struggled to sync. Now i've got a special faceplate with the filter built into it which fixes that.


I don't think there is a typical wiring, there's the right way and then there's everything else! And about the other question, yes it can. That was the case with us at home. There are literally thousands of ways a wire can pick up noise in the home. So unless you have the special master socket: the fewer extensions and cable and connected stuff etc. you have, the better!

Sorry if it looks like I'm repeating advice, I'm not trying to fix the problem just yet. I'm trying to find it first!
Oh that's great that you've tried all the suggestions. So what did the neighbours say when you asked them, and what times were the disconnects happening at??

well the neighbours said their connections were fine no problems at all. The disconnects for me happen at different times in the evening between 6pm and 10pm. And it usually stays disconnected until around 11am the next day.

lucernarian

Ok thanks for that. That rules out some things, but I still can't see what the problem could be.

I notice you identified another telephone cable that goes to unused sockets. When you disconnected that and the other extensions from the main socket, was there any change??

Btw, if it helps at all, there's a fairly informative discussion on indoor telephone wiring here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=280577&page=3

brk3

A curious update on this, Ive recently learned that when the modem is having trouble syncing, lifting the phone and simply listening to the dial tone causes it to sync! wtf?

Anyone have any tech info on why this works? Theres obviously some sort of interference going on but theres only the one phone and it has a filter defiantly correctly installed..

ryanch09

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Ok thanks for that. That rules out some things, but I still can't see what the problem could be.

I notice you identified another telephone cable that goes to unused sockets. When you disconnected that and the other extensions from the main socket, was there any change??

Btw, if it helps at all, there's a fairly informative discussion on indoor telephone wiring here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=280577&page=3

well the only thing i havent tried is disconnecting that other cable (its too high up and i dont have a ladder)

would getting a new master socket help??? if you like i could post some photos of the line

dub45

Just to give an example of what can go wrong when another extension is involved (I have posted this in another thread too so apologies if you have read it before)

Last night I was up with a friend of mine who has had problems with his line since Eircom upgrades a while ago. He was only syncing at 1440 and his snr was down to 6.

As far as I was aware there was only one socket in the house but luckily I asked him if there was another socket and he said there was another phone in one of the bedrooms that had not been used in years:rolleyes:

Simply disconnecting the phone brought the sync speed back to what it should be but brought the snr back up into the 20s!

So do whatever you can to eliminate all extraneous connections to the main sockets.

ryanch09

dub45 wrote: »

Just to give an example of what can go wrong when another extension is involved (I have posted this in another thread too so apologies if you have read it before)

Last night I was up with a friend of mine who has had problems with his line since Eircom upgrades a while ago. He was only syncing at 1440 and his snr was down to 6.

As far as I was aware there was only one socket in the house but luckily I asked him if there was another socket and he said there was another phone in one of the bedrooms that had not been used in years:rolleyes:

Simply disconnecting the phone brought the sync speed back to what it should be but brought the snr back up into the 20s!

So do whatever you can to eliminate all extraneous connections to the main sockets.

yeah i might try that the only thing im afraid of is if it will do anything to others peoples telephones because this unknown cable that i've found doesnt go into the main socket it goes into the attic and outside into a box at the side of the house(the main socket cable also goes out there)

lucernarian

Hmmm, that's odd. So this cable starts off from a box outside, where the main phone cable also comes from. But it goes up the wall and into the attic then. But it doesn't lead to any sockets...

Did I get all that right?

To see what's going on with that wire, that outdoor box would need to be examined.

I'm not sure what advice is best here, as you probably need someone qualified/who knows what they're doing, to disconnect everything but the bare minimum from the line.

Perhaps your best bet is to call eircom, tell them of the severe problems you're having (and especially say that the modem syncs at too low a speed when there are problems)

If you get another engineer visit, tell the linesman to put on the special filtered master socket.

ryanch09

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Hmmm, that's odd. So this cable starts off from a box outside, where the main phone cable also comes from. But it goes up the wall and into the attic then. But it doesn't lead to any sockets...

Did I get all that right?

To see what's going on with that wire, that outdoor box would need to be examined.

I'm not sure what advice is best here, as you probably need someone qualified/who knows what they're doing, to disconnect everything but the bare minimum from the line.

Perhaps your best bet is to call eircom, tell them of the severe problems you're having (and especially say that the modem syncs at too low a speed when there are problems)

If you get another engineer visit, tell the linesman to put on the special filtered master socket.

ok thanks for that i'll call them up asap