'Quality Control' rant by Deadmau5

SRFC90

Hello all! I'd like to get on a topic that been bothering for a couple years now that i think should be brought to light... mp3... the digital age, the download generation.

First and foremost, We live in exciting times indeed. Although, I'll have to say it's been nothing less than a struggle to surprise people these days. By that i mean, running out to different venues all over the world and playing for people sure has changed in the past 3 or 4 years. Before this YouTube / streaming media explosion... people were more in for surprises and one off's from an artist due to the exclusivity and intimacy that only attending an event could provide.... so attending events, purchasing albums, and scouring the shops was the only means of obtaining the latest and greatest from your favorite artists.

Now, im sure im not telling you anything you didnt already know here... but i somehow feel the need to reiterate some of the finer points regarding the matter of this streaming media blitz...

Quite frankly, I kinda feel a bit bummed out that i would create something exclusive for my audiences to be "ripped" from some streaming media stie as is... moreso when the poster of the media would advertise or title it as "HD" or "High Quality" before it's release date.

In fact, Nothing makes me vomit in my mouth more than listening to anything short of a 16bit 44.1kHz Wav / Aiff file... perhaps it's just the audiophile in me... but i am actually witnessing and realizing for the first time in my life something that i have created that has been reduced to some regurgetated re-re-re-re-recording of a set and dubbed "high quality"... quite frankly im a little embarassed.

This isnt a rant about leaked tracks, piracy, copyright viloation, or severe lack of imagination, far from it. I am just trickling out a few little factoids that will hopefully point you towards being a more passionate listener.

for example, recently, as im sure you've noticed by now, i've churned out a few new songs to keep my shows a tad more interesting and evolving. FML, i think would be a suitable example.

in fact, here in front of me i have "deadmau5 - FML.wav" in all it's glory. WAV, 32bit float, 192kHz

deadmau5 - FML
8m:09.889s
Wave IEEE float signed 32 bit,
192000Hz
12288Kbps, Stereo.
717 MB (752,472,064 bytes)

Funnily enough, not even a 16bit 44.1 quality version of FML has left my hard drive... so unless you broke into my house and snagged it out of my cold dead hands, theres no "HQ" version floating about as far as im concerned....

that's about as good as its goping to get in terms of "quality"... unfortunatley... 717 meg is a bit much when it comes to transferring for purposes other than mastering / remixing.

NOW HERE COMES THE SCIENCE.

alas, the file is then dithered (not resampled) down to 16bits and 44.1kHz (standard CD quality) for the masses / distribution. (with the exception that I dither to 24 bits / 48kHz for performances)...

so, situation happens... some guy records the set @ 16 bit 44.1kHz (usually the case) you've got my 24 bit version coming out of my DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) then in to someone elses ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) which is only as good as the quality of the ADC.. so already the quality of the music has been compromised, and you havent even gotten it yet.

Then, whoever records a direct line from the set then encodes that to 320kpbs MAX or 128 kbps mp3 for media streaming ease. this part is a MAAASSSIIIVEEE degradation of the original signal... and has been mulched to all bloody hell. So.... then what typically happens is yet ANOTHER DAC / ADC conversion.... wheres someone rips the audio from said streaming media outlet only to puke it back onto youtube... which is 128Kbps max in "HD" mode (which is a VERY far cry from HD if you ask me... total abuse of terminology there) shoulda jujst called it ABBDBNR...."A Bit Better Definition But Not Really". fun times! so... to break it down... lets take a quick look again...



Production / Final Master
↓
degraded to 24 bits for live use
↓
degraded to 16 bits for commerical release / distribution
↓
degraded to 16 bits (less accurately) when recorded off a live feed from mixer via DAC / ADC
↓
degraded to 128kbps / 320kbps when published for streaming media outlets
↓
degraded to 128kbps / 320kbps when ripped from streaming media outlet
↓
degraded to 64kbps / 128kbps
=
a very crappy 6th generation copy that magically gets called "HIGH QUALITY VERSION!!!111ONE!!" on youtube.... you figure it out.


Or as mr. Duda says:

"yeah more like Rendered from Ableton -> converted to Mp3 -> uploaded to myspace -> reconverted to worse mp3 -> ripped from your myspace -> converted to wav -> edited in Ableton again to run for 6 minutes -> converted to mp3 ->uploaded to Youtube -> reconverted with ****eaudio.dll" - nice one steve.

I just think it's time for us listeners to listen smarter, to educate eachother a little more, give the audiable world out there a bit of a quality control attitude, LISTEN UP folks... our hearing is really a ****ing complicated and beautiful thing!!! Why not use it well? It's like owning the most amazing sportscar and not a drop of gasoline on the planet.... Sometimes when i stick my ears out there, im really starting to fear that even the terminologic use of the words "high quality" is slowing substandardizing itself into an inaudiable heap of nonsense. If my message reaches at least one person, and benefits them in any way, i will die a happy mouse.

ghostdancer

he should be more concerned about quality control on the appalling **** he's released in the last 18months.

i'm sure his fans are too busy deciding what ben sherman/fluffy boots to buy next and how they can do an even wackier "whooomp there it is" chant at his gigs.

SteveDon

ghostdancer wrote: »

he should be more concerned about quality control on the appalling **** he's released in the last 18months.

i'm sure his fans are too busy deciding what ben sherman/fluffy boots to buy next and how they can do an even wackier "whooomp there it is" chant at his gigs.

best post ever

Jay D

well he get's 10 out of 10 for talking complete crap

old gregg

When I'd finished reading, I looked down and noticed that I was swaying gently from side to side with a lighter in my hand ... I may have been crying a little and my nose was slightly running.

I love it when STARS catch up and realise what nearly everyone and their dogs already knew. It's so cute.

-oRnein9-

He should stop the ranting and concentrate on his mixing, anyone download his set from space opening ****s up at least 2 mixes in his set!

jonny68

This guy beggars belief :eek::eek:

but i am actually witnessing and realizing for the first time in my life something that i have created that has been reduced to some regurgetated re-re-re-re-recording of a set and dubbed "high quality"... quite frankly im a little embarassed

.

you should be embarrassed and ashamed of some of the classic tunes you've absolutely butchered to death with your rubbish remixes..

acman

ghostdancer wrote: »

he should be more concerned about quality control on the appalling **** he's released in the last 18months.

i'm sure his fans are too busy deciding what ben sherman/fluffy boots to buy next and how they can do an even wackier "whooomp there it is" chant at his gigs.

LOL! Well said...:D

Daroxtar

In fact, Nothing makes me vomit in my mouth more than listening to anything short of a 16bit 44.1kHz Wav / Aiff file... perhaps it's just the audiophile in me... but i am actually witnessing and realizing for the first time in my life something that i have created that has been reduced to some regurgetated re-re-re-re-recording of a set and dubbed "high quality"... quite frankly im a little embarassed.

Please do elaborate as to how or indeed why one would vomit in ones own mouth. Personally, i wouldnt vomit on Deadmaus. And as for thinking he has created anything worthy..... just stay off the coke ya fkn dickhead. Dickmau4

some posters may gather i'm not a dickmau4 fan

Anima

What an eejit.

VinylJunkie

WillyHead5

Executive Steve

He has a really valid point IMO - people don't give two ****s about sound quality anymore

Davei141

Well what sort of sound equipment do you think i need to get the best out of a 700mb 8 min track? More than most can afford i would bet. Doubt many people have funktion ones floating around which are needed to do certain tracks justice.

Zascar

As said above he does have a point, I know people who use those websites to rip audio from youtube and it sounds awful. Seriosuly if he thinks 320kbs is not enought then he's just an audiophile snob, I thought those days were behind us. He's probably just worried cause if your tune sucks in wav, then it will suck even more in 64kbs.

jtsuited

to be fair, i completely see his point. he is pissed that really bad quality rips of his stuff are being presented as 'high quality'. Completely understandable.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

As said above he does have a point, I know people who use those websites to rip audio from youtube and it sounds awful. Seriosuly if he thinks 320kbs is not enought then he's just an audiophile snob

320 is great. And I'm a proper audiophile snob. But some of the 320 encoders do a friggin horrendous job, and while there are no mp3 artefacts the track sounds completely flat and lacking depth.

Thankfully beatport do their own encoding from 24 bit wav so any mp3's you get from beatport will normally be perfect as 320's.

Unfortunately some of the 320 promos going round are encoded pretty awfully.

Anything below 320 is horrible for playing out on decent systems. You really hear the difference then.

DarkJager

I understand what he's getting at, but isn't high quality only a bonus if the source material is good in the first place? I liked deadmau5 when I first heard his stuff, although I now realise that my initial like was down to his more melodic tunes. I then decided to buy the album - oh dear. Its just the same thing over and over again intespersed with different beeps or pitch changes. There is nothing new to hear. And there is certainly nothing on it to justify deadmau5's almost christ like view of himself.

VinylJunkie

This is a vaild arguement, however the fact he was the one who broght it up turns the thread into a deadmau5 bashing session.(Which im all for) :pac:

I mean a DJ who thinks DJ's are all “Fu*king Cu_ts”

It puts me to ****ing sleep to be quite honest, I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully with all due respect to the dj type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur id like them to dis-a-****ing-pear.

IMO the difference in audio quality can only be heard on a high end sound system.

DarkJager

It puts me to ****ing sleep to be quite honest, I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully with all due respect to the dj type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur id like them to dis-a-****ing-pear.

His album put me to ****ing sleep to be quite honest. I don't really see the technical merit in making the equivalent of electronica lullabies, making the audience dance off to ****ing sleep instead of tearing it up. As for the "dj type" he describes, they were around before him and they'll still be around long after he's forgotten. I'd personally prefer to hear a DJ who can pick his tunes perfectly and mix them to the same standard, instead of some stuck up arsehole who thinks he's the **** cause he made 7 minutes of ****ing beeping.

It kind of reminds me of that statement Paul Van Dyk made a year or two ago about the majority of electronic music being "cheesy ****". Funny comments from the man who has realised the most dire of **** in recent times. Its funny how these guys end up so far up their own arse, without realising half of the stuff they put out is pure ****.

Fintomiginto

DarkJager wrote: »

His album put me to ****ing sleep to be quite honest. I don't really see the technical merit in making the equivalent of electronica lullabies, making the audience dance off to ****ing sleep instead of tearing it up. As for the "dj type" he describes, they were around before him and they'll still be around long after he's forgotten. I'd personally prefer to hear a DJ who can pick his tunes perfectly and mix them to the same standard, instead of some stuck up arsehole who thinks he's the **** cause he made 7 minutes of ****ing beeping.

It kind of reminds me of that statement Paul Van Dyk made a year or two ago about the majority of electronic music being "cheesy ****". Funny comments from the man who has realised the most dire of **** in recent times. Its funny how these guys end up so far up their own arse, without realising half of the stuff they put out is pure ****.

Nail on the head my friend, nail on the head!

I like some of his stuff, particularly the one with Kaskade, 'I Remember'

bluto63

Deleted User wrote: »

I like some of his stuff, particularly the one with Kaskade, 'I Remember'

Me too, I enjoyed his album, and I like the one he did with Jelo, The Reward Is Cheese

VinylJunkie

Me too I think he's Dreamy

Well now I know I'm not on my own, I'm gonna get braver.

I also very much enjoyed Faxing Berlin!

franklyshocked

Back in the mid 80's we had a single deck tape recorder with a built in Mic. if we wanted to get a copy of a song you like you'd have to hold the tape recorder beside a radio and ask everyone to stay quiet till the end of the song. lets see zombierat3 make a flow chart for sound quality on that.

That snob with his 320kbps MP3. Doesn't know how good he has it
:D:D:D

Zascar

Deleted User wrote: »

Well now I know I'm not on my own, I'm gonna get braver.

I also very much enjoyed Faxing Berlin!

I really liked a lot of his earlier stuff but stopped listening to him about a year ago or so - not a lot of his newer stuff impressed me - all sounded a little 'samey'. Still, I don't jump on the 'lets slag the sh!t out of him because he has become popular' bandwagon.

gsparx

old gregg wrote: »

I love it when STARS catch up and realise what nearly everyone and their dogs already knew. It's so cute.

i think, to be honest, your average music fan would probably not even be aware that an mp3 is a lower quality version of a cd track. most people seem happy to listen to over-compressed music on a tiny hard drive with ****ty headphones.

Mouth

IMO 320 is grand,,, like ****ing hell complaining about that is a bit much... sure most systems always have a depreciation point from the ****ty leads,,, ****y mixer or ****y something..... it does help to start off with a nice quality sound but most of the time there is always something else that is not going to allow that sound quality to remain so by the time it is coming out of the speakers....


hmmm let me get my gold leads and funktion 1 speakers out for me to play for s a summer bbq.... god forgive me for lowering the sound quality a bit....

for **** sake.... If someone is going to lenghts to listen to your stuff u should not complain too much... of course in a perfect world we would all have 320, wav etc etc above encoded files...
i thinks hes pissed cus sales are not going so well (from what he expected anyway) thanks to illegal downloading (which he sees as supplying the lower quality rec's , which is true)

Doctor Breevil

Sort of a fair point he is making about the quality but this rant is like something you would see on Kanye's Blog

copeyhagen

where to start....

ok, hes an egotistical (spelling) twat that talks a serious amount of ****e.

i enjoyed some of his tunes, i remember - bit cheesey but decent, the reward is cheese, arguru, his remix of one+one no pressure, but most his tunes sound the same.

had a bit of craic seeing him live but there was a lot of shams there, robbing his helmet for example, throwing beer over there heads and shouting "come on the mouse" - get the **** back to hed kandi u kunts.

all in all hes ok but i imagine he will wind up being a fad, a new age 2 unlimited that people will look back and chuckle about in a few years.

liverat out

electroma

i see his point in regards to sound quality, but to your average joe soap they probably wouldnt even notice,

he's still a knob though, totally lost his way.

he's like your man tony quinn he thinks he's jesus

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

sh1t in > sh1t out >

He's in Limerick Friday night.

I'm heading anyway, like the odd tune even if he is patently an arsehole.

Does anyone want anything thrown at him?

SRFC90

Deleted User wrote: »

He's in Limerick Friday night.

I'm heading anyway, like the odd tune even if he is patently an arsehole.

Does anyone want anything thrown at him?

Tried getting tickets earlier n it ain't sold out! Wonder why he ain't playin somewhere in the capital like Tripod, where he packed out last October.

SRFC90

Zascar

Seriously I don't see why Deadmau5 gets such a hard time - does he really 'Think he's God' - or is it just how he has been built up by others in the industry?

I liked him when he first came onto the scene and thought he was pumping out more decent stuff than most others. He later got boring cause his stuff sounds so similar but if he does bring out another good unique tune I'll still listen to it and play it. So he wears a big mouse head on stage - its a bit different and gimmicky - but these are the kind of things people do to get ahead - if I was a DJ/producer and had the option to become rich and famous using a gimmick I'd be doing it too.

It's unfortunate how some people get pounced on by the masses and everyone else starts to hate them. Eric Prydz managed to do both - remaining kinda underground with other labels and sudonames etc. Maybe Deadmau5 should have done the same.

Maybe I'm missing something cause really I do not follow him closely, but does he really deserve such slack?

jtsuited

Call me a conspiracy theorist but here's my theory on it.

Deadmau5 sold a bloody shedload of records out of nowhere. On his own label. He wasn't involved with any clique (think of the Minus crew, even the Cocoon lads to see what I mean by clique). The story goes that Chris Lake gave a demo to Pete Tong and Tong played it a lot. Then everything sort of went from there with Deadmau5 releasing on his own label and outselling everyone else (Faxing Berlin is the most bought record on Beatport).

Nobody inside the 'dance music' industry had any stake in him. I'm pretty sure his manager is actually a BIG name pop artist manager. Rather than getting the usual koudos from Michael Mayer, Sven Vath, Steve Bug, or Ellen Allien or any of the usual folk, Deadmau5 became MASSIVE overnight.

So it pissed a lot of the more 'underground' people off.

I hate to say it but there's also a huge amount of begrudgery going on. If you're somebody of the opinion that a music career (and life in general) is more down to chance than anything else, Deadmau5's career would really piss you off.

Three years ago, he was some unemployed kid in his 20's making music in his bedroom and living with his mom. He makes some universally accessible record like Faxing Berlin, releases it on his own label along with a shedload of other stuff and it sells quicker than if it was going out of fashion.
He did it, without any help from the normal dance music bigwigs, and on his own label.

Before his explosion in popularity, he was just an underground type who everyone loved. As he got bigger, people REALLY took a dislike to him.

Some people (and I have talked to many over my short time in music) are genuinely convinced that there is a big conspiracy to keep 'good' music down. They want to think no matter how talented they are or how hard they work, they'll never build a successful career because of the unfairness of the playing pitch and that people that do get 'successful' do so by pure luck.

Seeing some guy like Deadmau5 suddenly making more money than you could imagine, staying in the nicest hotels in the world, and being surrounded by women who on average are far better looking than anyone you know (let alone get to shag) is a hard thing to take for any average person who is not deadmau5.

It's a hell of a lot easier to take if you are of a mindset that he is just lucky.

Because if you don't convince yourself that he is merely lucky, then you gotta ask yourself why you don't have any of the things he does ie. a career making music, playing a different city every night having a blast, and generally having a bloody good life.

Now personally, I don't think he's released anything good for a long time, but that's more because I got bored of his sound a long time ago. That sound is clearly working for him, so fair play to him.

His sh1t about djs was more an indication of the bullsh1t standard of irish tabloid papers than anything else. And who gives a fcuk anyway? His opinions are not relevant whatsoever to him as an artist.
If anything it showed that he had the balls to speak his mind knowing that it would piss a lot of people off. There are plenty of more 'credible' dj's out there who wouldn't dare say a bad word in public but are bitter crazy fcukers in private.

I thought in dance music, people would be able to see that whether Deadmau5 is a dick or not is an entirely irrelevant debate.

On a more personal level, I got into Deadmau5 just after I got into dance music, and he is very much a 'gateway' artist. If you're new to it, he's very accessible and enjoyable and his stuff is ever so slightly underground enough that it piques your interest about finding out more.

Despite all the internet bitching that goes on about Deadmau5, it's not gonna make a blind bit of difference to his career.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

Call me a conspiracy theorist but here's my theory on it.

Deadmau5 sold a bloody shedload of records out of nowhere. On his own label. He wasn't involved with any clique (think of the Minus crew, even the Cocoon lads to see what I mean by clique). The story goes that Chris Lake gave a demo to Pete Tong and Tong played it a lot. Then everything sort of went from there with Deadmau5 releasing on his own label and outselling everyone else (Faxing Berlin is the most bought record on Beatport).

Nobody inside the 'dance music' industry had any stake in him. I'm pretty sure his manager is actually a BIG name pop artist manager. Rather than getting the usual koudos from Michael Mayer, Sven Vath, Steve Bug, or Ellen Allien or any of the usual folk, Deadmau5 became MASSIVE overnight.

So it pissed a lot of the more 'underground' people off.

I hate to say it but there's also a huge amount of begrudgery going on. If you're somebody of the opinion that a music career (and life in general) is more down to chance than anything else, Deadmau5's career would really piss you off.

Three years ago, he was some unemployed kid in his 20's making music in his bedroom and living with his mom. He makes some universally accessible record like Faxing Berlin, releases it on his own label along with a shedload of other stuff and it sells quicker than if it was going out of fashion.
He did it, without any help from the normal dance music bigwigs, and on his own label.

Before his explosion in popularity, he was just an underground type who everyone loved. As he got bigger, people REALLY took a dislike to him.

Some people (and I have talked to many over my short time in music) are genuinely convinced that there is a big conspiracy to keep 'good' music down. They want to think no matter how talented they are or how hard they work, they'll never build a successful career because of the unfairness of the playing pitch and that people that do get 'successful' do so by pure luck.

Seeing some guy like Deadmau5 suddenly making more money than you could imagine, staying in the nicest hotels in the world, and being surrounded by women who on average are far better looking than anyone you know (let alone get to shag) is a hard thing to take for any average person who is not deadmau5.

It's a hell of a lot easier to take if you are of a mindset that he is just lucky.

Because if you don't convince yourself that he is merely lucky, then you gotta ask yourself why you don't have any of the things he does ie. a career making music, playing a different city every night having a blast, and generally having a bloody good life.

Now personally, I don't think he's released anything good for a long time, but that's more because I got bored of his sound a long time ago. That sound is clearly working for him, so fair play to him.

His sh1t about djs was more an indication of the bullsh1t standard of irish tabloid papers than anything else. And who gives a fcuk anyway? His opinions are not relevant whatsoever to him as an artist.
If anything it showed that he had the balls to speak his mind knowing that it would piss a lot of people off. There are plenty of more 'credible' dj's out there who wouldn't dare say a bad word in public but are bitter crazy fcukers in private.

I thought in dance music, people would be able to see that whether Deadmau5 is a dick or not is an entirely irrelevant debate.

On a more personal level, I got into Deadmau5 just after I got into dance music, and he is very much a 'gateway' artist. If you're new to it, he's very accessible and enjoyable and his stuff is ever so slightly underground enough that it piques your interest about finding out more.

Despite all the internet bitching that goes on about Deadmau5, it's not gonna make a blind bit of difference to his career.

BAM!

-ADREN-

electrogrimey wrote: »

BAM!

Agreed.

SRFC90

Zascar wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something cause really I do not follow him closely, but does he really deserve such slack?

Not really. A combination of jealousy/resentment and individual music taste fuels the constant hatred heading his way IMO!

acman

jtsuited wrote: »

I hate to say it but there's also a huge amount of begrudgery going on. If you're somebody of the opinion that a music career (and life in general) is more down to chance than anything else, Deadmau5's career would really piss you off.

First off, koudos for a well written post...you brought up some interesting points.

I would like to add to the whole "life is down to chance thing". I totally agree with you on that, however, luck / chance is useless if you are not in position to accept it when it does come your way (no use in accientaly meeting mr. big record label owner if you dont have a demo etc.) A sort of, if your not in, you can't win philosophy...bottom line is that you do need some talent, some initiative and hell of a lot of luck to get anywhere in ANYTHING these days.

That said, personally i loved Deadmau5's early stuff (the rewards is cheese etc.) but haven't liked any of his stuff in the past year or so...it has become quite boring really. Fair play to him though, he is doing what most of us can only dream of and if he didn't put himself out there in the first place, he would never have been in the position to "get lucky".

Starfox

If music is good enough its good enough regardless of who produces it but i think that more applies to a producer starting off, because once a star they can hypnotize fan bases into believing the cheese they release is actually good music, just look @ pvd or paul miller...