BNP Protest

Boston

Rb wrote: »

Indeed. I particularly liked the one with a bunch of white, middle class people (mainly studenty types) and a black guy on a megaphone. "Look! Look! We have a black guy and he objects! He f**king objects!"

I may be wrong but surely there are more than enough non-white, non-middle class people who the BNP "target" that could have formed a protest, as opposed to leaving it to a bunch of liberal kids with PC ideals.

A small protest comprising mainly of white, middle class college students will do nothing, it will in no way keep the BNP "out". Pelting them with eggs does nothing. Yet, these protesters couldn't even realise that.

Bravo.

I think the reason these "white middle class" types are protesting, is because the BNP claims to speak and act in their name. If I claim to speak for you and you never challenge that assertion, then the perception will be that I do.

getz wrote: »

most if not all BNP supporters, come from northern cities with high muslim population.these northern cities [i lived in one 2 years ago] have no go areas ,the muslims live close together because of fear, the young both asian and white at times start trouble just for kicks,the older residents are to scared to go out at night. what makes matters worse is that the authorities [police and the local council]seem never to be even handed, often frightened to be called racist-for instance last year in my old town ,on st georges day the town hall always used to put up the st george flag,this year they dident because quote;it may upset the muslim population, yet they had the pakistani flag flying on the town hall on pakistani independence day, no christmas tree or christmas lights last year because of we do not want to upset the muslim population --now i know for a start most of this [middle class white perception] insults any muslim, they never felt threatened ,but the old english dear dose and this leads to a fertile area for racists like the BNP-that is why the BNP was elected from that area

Good post and points. You can't fight racism by giving one culture prominence over the other. It one of those areas where perceptions are extremely important.

djpbarry

ShooterSF wrote: »

You don't do it to change their mind. You do it to show the rediculousness of their claims to others.

Granted, but as the saying goes, you should never argue with an idiot, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Boston

djpbarry wrote: »

Granted, but as the saying goes, you should never argue with an idiot, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So your answer to voice an argument against them? To never try and convince people they are wrong? Is it any wonder then that they are growing in support.

djpbarry

Boston wrote: »

So your answer to voice an argument against them? To never try and convince people they are wrong? Is it any wonder then that they are growing in support.

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

dave-higgz

From the BNP website:

NORTHERN IRELAND - an end to sectarianism!

Britain has shamefully allowed the terrorists in N.I. to come close to winning when the IRA could have been destroyed years ago.
Government weakness has led to hundreds of deaths and given those same terrorists a share in government.
We would end all attempts to force the people of Northern Ireland to accept foreign interference in their affairs and deal with terrorism - from whatever side - once and for all.
No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms should be allowed to enter government. We would abolish state-supported segregation in education. In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles

tut tut tut no fada on Éire!!
Secondly, this federation idea is quite suspect. It appears they don't like our independence!!

Dannyboy83

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

By Force.

MikeC101

Idiotic action by the protestors.

Was just listening to one of the protestors explain it - she was asked about her stance on freedom of speech and she said "We don't believe in freedom of speech for fascists."

It's very very easy to support freedom of speech when it's something you agree with, the real test is if you'll support it when something you don't agree with is being said.

The BNP likes to rant about the sinister "far left" that want to censor them and stop them making their point, media bias etc etc, and what do these egg throwing morons do? That's right, try to censor them and not allow them to speak.

asdasd

How does one reason with the unreasonable?

1) Try and work out why 1 million people vote for an unreasonable party.
2) Prove their fears wrong, or
3) Fix what is troubling them.

Boston

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

Ah you see it doesn't start off irrational. All these groups always have a public fact which sounds quiet rational and logical. Every facist government in history has started off by blanketing themselves in rational, logical arguments. Take the points getz raised, they sound very reasonable, if a BNP candidate came along and assured me that by electing him he would ensure there was a christmas tree in the town, that my flag could continue to be raised over town hall, that he would stop the asian gangs terrorising my neighbourhood, I'd be tempted. Especially if theres no one pointing out the flaws.

In order for the BNP to achieve the results they've achieved, they have to be getting support from more then the usual core bigot element. They must be turning ordinary decent people.

dsmythy

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

It's not about changing their minds it's about changing the perceptions other people have of them. Right now they look like victims. That's not the perception you want people to have of them. Debate them and show how wrong they are to others.

These violent protesters should respect democracy more. The BNP got the votes this time. Now they have their heads over the parapet. They can be debated and defeated. The issues that caused people to vote for them can be dealt with by more moderate parties presuming they are willing to do so. Come next election day the BNP will lose their seats. Welcome to democracy.

CerebralCortex

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Erm, ever heard of laws relating to "incitement to hatred" or "incitement to violence"

Like all "rights", they come (or at least should come) with responsibility to use them properly.

As long as it is attack on the idea not the person. I had this very argument today at lunch in work over Dermot Aherne and his handling of the blasphemy law.

Rb

djpbarry wrote: »

Issues?
You seem to have been blessed with Nick Griffin’s ability to tell an individual’s background simply by looking at them?

I wouldn't call it an issue, considering I would fall into the aforementioned demographic and will be a college student in September.

It's more a reflection that the only people who ever seem to "protest" are white, middle class studenty types with liberal ideals, a lack of experience in the "real world" and often shaggy hair/beards.

And a lot of them seem to protest to protest, as though they haven't passed adolescence and need something to give out about.

Merely a reflection, however.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Probably because you have an awful lot of prejudices, and are never surprised when they are confirmed in your own eyes.

regards,
Scofflaw

It does feel good to be right, I must say.

Boston wrote: »

I think the reason these "white middle class" types are protesting, is because the BNP claims to speak and act in their name. If I claim to speak for you and you never challenge that assertion, then the perception will be that I do.

Well, and as I said above, I'm beginning to think that liberal studenty types tend to protest for the sake of protesting.

I had the luck of being in London during the Anti-Israel/Pro-Palestine protests and it was the same demographic who were "up in arms" over the whole thing, although most seemed to be there for the sake of it and/or to have some craic with their mates.

Your explanation certainly is plausible though, however I am noticing somewhat of a trend.

Acacia

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

You know they're middle class students just by looking at them?

Bravo sir.

Jabari Icy Granola wrote: »

'Cus loike, we haaaaaave to protest against these evil people', for they will achieve a lot....

I'm sure they have good reasons for protesting- perhaps because the BNP are racist scum?

Though I don't agree with the egg-throwing.

djpbarry wrote: »

I’d be reluctant to engage a BNP supporter in debate for the same reason I would be reluctant to engage a creationist in debate.

I definetely see where you're coming from. It does pain me that they must be treated like a legitimate party - but that's democracy.

Though debating with these people is akin to banging your head off the wall repeatedly.

Unfortunately, the other option is to ignore them, in which case , like I said before, they can claim they are being repressed, and can further their claim that there is some sort of liberal conspiracy against the working-class white Briton.:rolleyes:

Rb

Acacia wrote: »

You know they're middle class students just by looking at them?

Bravo sir.

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

Souljacker

Rb wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

I know it's off topic but what excatly makes someone middle class never mind 'look' middle class IYO?

Just wondering.

Acacia

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

Good job conveniently forgetting to answer my question. How can you tell somebody is middle class and a student just by looking at them?

I didn't 'forget' the white part- it would be silly to ask how you know somebody is white just by looking at them. Though I don't see why being white means you can't protest against the BNP.

Since that was a complete cop out of an answer-

Epic Fail! (:rolleyes:)