Sinn Fein...the future?

At a time when every non Government party is making significant gains, they seem to be stalled or in reverse. A very bad last General Election. A very bad European campaign in Dublin, and their golden haired girl lost down here in Munster, and they also made no impact in the North West when in the last campaign they polled very strongly. They lost a few high profile seats in local politics in Dublin when you would have thought they would have swept in. I see they now have lost another elected Councillor in Dublin.

What's their future?

mike65

10% is their future, the best way forward would be to ditch the Nordies and focus on the "26". And to develop a plausible set of policies.

Can'tseeme

They're still a young party in the south, all the other parties are well established. But I think they've got all the potential there. They some outstanding young candidates coming through, they just need to be patient and I think they're vote will start to take off. The after effects of the conflict are still holding them back which the other parties use to the full extent. But they can't use it for ever and hopefully they can start to get their policy out there.

Liam Byrne

Can'tseeme wrote: »

The after effects of the conflict are still holding them back which the other parties use to the full extent. But they can't use it for ever and hopefully they can start to get their policy out there.

Neutral paraphrase of the above:

Their stance on some of the atrocities is holding them back, and the other parties - and the public - are perfectly entitled to call them on it.

Hopefully they won't keep this stance forever and will hopefully realise that they have to represent the general public's views if they ever want to get their policies to be noticed.

Can'tseeme

mike65 wrote: »

10% is their future, the best way forward would be to ditch the Nordies and focus on the "26". And to develop a plausible set of policies.

The northen vote looks after itself and they're a large enough party to cope throughout the island. One of their biggest selling points to the electorate is that they're an all island party. So ditching the north would be a disaster. As I said in my last post, they're a young party in the south, up against established parties. Patience and hard work is the key

Deedsie

I honestly think they have to make some friends in the middle classes. There support base is from the working classes, people who rarely turn out to vote.

IIMII

They need to drop the fixation on socialism and focus on the needs of the entire country. It doesn't seem to have registered that to win 30% of the vote, you need to reflect the views of 30% of the electorate. Even if 30% of the electorate were really socialist (not just vaguely socialist, or part socialist), that space is shared with Labour and The Socialist Party. And even some people that would consider themselves as being sypathetic to socialism, vote FF

It might also help to stop manipulating candidate selection to get young women in as prospective candidates - I think the lesson from this set of elections is that recognised hard workers will be elected, and pretty faces whilst not without use, are secondary to track record.

Can'tseeme

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Neutral paraphrase of the above:

Their stance on some of the atrocities is holding them back, and the other parties - and the public - are perfectly entitled to call them on it.

Hopefully they won't keep this stance forever and will hopefully realise that they have to represent the general public's views if they ever want to get their policies to be noticed.

Horrible conflict, let's hope it's all behind us.

DeVore

Waaay too scary.
They havent gone away you know.
Socialist?? More like Marxist.
Untrustworthy people I feel would lie to me in a heartbeat if it served their purposes.
Unclear policies.
Unclear affiliations.
Unclear intentions.
Unclear that they have broken ties with violence (in any form).

These are just some of the things which spring immediately to mind about SF.

I'm a nationalist (in that I would vote for a united Ireland). I was born a catholic in Belfast. I have socialist sympathies and leanings. I come from working class roots. I wouldnt vote SF. There is something wrong there.

Mind you, I would say the same about the SWF or SWP or any of those "end justify the means" supposedly "socialist" groups. They are all too willfully blinded by their own simplistic ideology to see that social management is an extremely non-black-and-white business.

DeV.

marco murphy

DeVore wrote: »

Waaay too scary.
They havent gone away you know.
Socialist?? More like Marxist.
Untrustworthy people I feel would lie to me in a heartbeat if it served their purposes.
Unclear policies.
Unclear affiliations.
Unclear intentions.
Unclear that they have broken ties with violence (in any form).

These are just some of the things which spring immediately to mind about SF.

I'm a nationalist (in that I would vote for a united Ireland). I was born a catholic in Belfast. I have socialist sympathies and leanings. I come from working class roots. I wouldnt vote SF. There is something wrong there.

Mind you, I would say the same about the SWF or SWP or any of those "end justify the means" supposedly "socialist" groups. They are all too willfully blinded by their own simplistic ideology to see that social management is an extremely non-black-and-white business.

DeV.

Why does it matter about your religion?

I think the party needs to carry out an opinion poll.

Happy Monday

Perestroika wrote: »

Why does it matter about your religion?

It has mattered to SF - they justified any number of atrocities against Protestants just for being Protestant.

But now they have embraced democracy - or was just because they knew there was no way to win their 'war'.

Nodin

Happy Monday wrote: »

It has mattered to SF - they justified any number of atrocities against Protestants just for being Protestant.

Could we have a link to these justifications please?

DeVore

I was making the point that on paper I would be a "target market" for SF. They dont exactly woo protestant voters now do they.

The point remains that something is badly wrong if I would not consider voting for them.

DeV.

Happy Monday

Nodin wrote: »

Could we have a link to these justifications please?

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/shankill.htm

viztopia

might be a very general comment but if there was no such thing as Nothern Ireland then there woudl be no such party as sinn fein. the majority of the people i know that vote for or support sinn fein in the republic are scum. the kind of people that say" oh i know people in sinn fein, i will sort him out.....". Also there economic polices seem to be taken from Stalins policies - and look what happened there!!

brianthebard

DeVore wrote: »

I was making the point that on paper I would be a "target market" for SF. They dont exactly woo protestant voters now do they.

The point remains that something is badly wrong if I would not consider voting for them.

DeV.

Why? Clearly you made up your mind how you intended to vote based on your own personal opinions and beliefs, not what we are told is the ideal demographic of a party. I don't think its that shocking that you won't vote for them, you probably never would have. The points you made about socialism/marxism are more telling than the fact that even as the ideal SF voter you choose not to be.



Now regarding SF's future, I think they need to drop Adams as a campaigner here during ROI elections. I think they have some serious presentation issues that need to be addressed before anything.

marco murphy

Happy Monday wrote: »

It has mattered to SF - they justified any number of atrocities against Protestants just for being Protestant.

But now they have embraced democracy - or was just because they knew there was no way to win their 'war'.

It doesn't matter one bit and what you have said is rubbish. Perhaps you could explain what the basis for justifying the murder of Protestants is? You said it, you argue it.

DeVore wrote: »

I was making the point that on paper I would be a "target market" for SF. They dont exactly woo protestant voters now do they.

The point remains that something is badly wrong if I would not consider voting for them.

DeV.

Target market? How? I have been a member for years and I can tell you we don't target voters based on religion.

I don't think theres anything badly wrong, its a complex that you have. I'm not slagging, just saying that its your problem.

itsallaboutheL

viztopia wrote: »

might be a very general comment but if there was no such thing as Nothern Ireland then there woudl be no such party as sinn fein. the majority of the people i know that vote for or support sinn fein in the republic are scum. the kind of people that say" oh i know people in sinn fein, i will sort him out.....". Also there economic polices seem to be taken from Stalins policies - and look what happened there!!

understatement of the year! Conversely it could be said that if there was no such thing as Sinn Fein there would be no such thing as Northern Ireland....

brianthebard

That statement doesn't really hold up L.

itsallaboutheL

I'm talkling about Sinn Fein in the loosest sense of the term, its origins if you will, who is to say there would have been a boundary commission at all, if he can make sweeping general statements then so can i.:)

brianthebard

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I'm talkling about Sinn Fein in the loosest sense of the term, its origins if you will, who is to say there would have been a boundary commission at all, if he can make sweeping general statements then so can i.:)

Unionists are the ones who wanted Partition, not SF.

José Alaninho

Happy Monday wrote: »

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/shankill.htm

Ah yes, and openly loyalist website. Well done, no bias there at all :rolleyes: I especially like their section on all the British Army / UVF / UDA murders- oh, wait....

As for the above comments about no Sinn Féin = no Northern Ireland and vice versa - are you seriously taking the piss?

Happy Monday

Perestroika wrote: »

It doesn't matter one bit and what you have said is rubbish. Perhaps you could explain what the basis for justifying the murder of Protestants is? You said it, you argue it.

I think you need to re-read what I have written.

I have said that SF/IRA - your party and movement - has murdered many Protestants across the North just because of their religion.

From innocent Protestant farmers on the Border to Protestant workmen going home on a Friday evening to their families to Protestants remembering their War dead in Enniskillen.

This all may come as a shock to you....maybe you should sit down for a while.

marco murphy

Hes right. There would be no N.I.

Just UK + Ireland :rolleyes:

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

Unionists are the ones who wanted Partition, not SF.

I'm talking Chaos theory here!! i was really just trying to emphasise the ridiculousness of his comment, and SF and all that flew under their general banner were obviously massive players and the catalysts for alot of the events that mushroomed out.

marco murphy

Happy Monday wrote: »

I think you need to re-read what I have written.

I have said that SF/IRA - your party and movement - has murdered many Protestants across the North just because of their religion.

From innocent Protestant farmers on the Border to Protestant workmen going home on a Friday evening to their families to Protestants remembering their War dead in Enniskillen.

This all may come as a shock to you....maybe you should sit down for a while.

I have no duty to answer for the workmen on the border, but I will condemn it fully, as well as the event at Enniskillen being targetted.

I still ask you to explain what grounds there are for killing innocent Protestants.

Happy Monday

Perestroika wrote: »

I have no duty to answer for the workmen on the border, but I will condemn it fully, as well as the event at Enniskillen being targetted.

I still ask you to explain what grounds there are for killing innocent Protestants.

I oppose SF and people like you who support them and the murder of innocent Protestants - as before, re-read the posts - slowly this time.

José Alaninho

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I'm talking Chaos theory here!! i was really just trying to emphasise the ridiculousness of his comment, and SF and all that flew under their general banner were obviously massive players and the catalysts for alot of the events that mushroomed out.

In that case, let's expand it further: If the Brits had never occupied Ireland, there would have been no need for a movement for national independence. Best scenario all round imo...

José Alaninho

Happy Monday wrote: »

I oppose SF and people like you who support them and the murder of innocent Protestants - as before, re-read the posts - slowly this time.

You have not answered the question. You linked to some blatantly loyalist propaganda site to try and make it look like you did, but you haven't.

Show us a single source where Sinn Féin representatives have called for and / or justified the killing of Protestants solely on the basis of their religion.

marco murphy

Happy Monday wrote: »

I oppose SF and people like you who support them and the murder of innocent Protestants - as before, re-read the posts - slowly this time.

Why would anyone target innocent Protestants?

Liam Byrne

José Alaninho wrote: »

Well done, no bias there at all :rolleyes: I especially like their section on all the British Army / UVF / UDA murders- oh, wait....

People in glasshouses, etc......have you checked the Sinn Fein website for details and demands for justice re IRA victims ?

Until people stop taking sides like this there will be no moving on.