Sinn Fein...the future?

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh they are.

And we are allowed to snigger at the suggestion. Particularly when you hear his thoughts on the Jerry McCabe murder.

he was probably drink driving at the time LOL

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2009 2:09pm

Perestroika wrote: »

one of the most professional guerilla armies in the world (according to the brits) would target and murder innocent civilians for unknown reasons. You failed to answer. You can't answer.

If they were that professional and didn't target civilians, how did they manage to kill so many of them ?

Professional drivers who don't want to run people over, well......don't.

LordSutch · 10-06-2009 2:14pm

I detest Sinn Fein with every fiber in my body, but in the lead up to the Euro's (and seeing as mary Lou isnt an Ex provo) I couldn't help giving her some of my time just too see what her arguments were, as opposed to the arguments of the other Dublin candidates, and what did we get > More of the same soundbites & bluster that we always get from poor old Mary, heckling down the others on Radio & TV interviews, stating the bleedin obvious again & again, demanding this, demanding that, coming across as 'The all knowledgeable one' even though if you analize what she actually said, it was all bloody obvious soundbites! and even on Q&A this week (post defeat) she was at it again, even though she had been knocked out against a seriously weekened Eoin Ryan!!!

Mary Lou is a week link in the Southern Strategy, she has let the Shinners down again & she is not making progress, so maybe its time for her to retreat from politics & start knitting some black balaclava's for the kids?

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:15pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If they were that professional and didn't target civilians, how did they manage to kill so many of them ?

Professional drivers who don't want to run people over, well......don't.

OMG Liam can you ever argue a point without sounding childish lol

lets be honest the IRA wrote the book on gorrila warfare and were the only militia to ever stand up and not surrender to the might of the British Army.

Comparing a trained solider to a driver is just folloy.. come on man what point are you actually trying to prove or make??

Please do try to keep your point on SF and not on the IRA the two imo are completely different for reasons i've already pointed out.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:17pm

Camelot wrote: »

I detest Sinn Fein with every fiber in my body, but in the lead up to the Euro's (and seeing as mary Lou isnt an Ex provo) I couldn't help giving her some of my time just too see what her arguments were, as opposed to the arguments of the other Dublin candidates, and what did we get > More of the same soundbites & bluster that we always get from poor old Mary, heckling down the others on Radio & TV interviews, stating the bleedin obvious, demanding this, demanding that, coming across as 'The all knowledgeable one' even though if you analize what she actually says its all obvious soundbites!
Even on Q&A this week (post defeat) was at it again, even though she had been knocked out against a seriously weekened Eoin Ryan!!!

Mary Lou is a week link in the Southern Strategy, she has let the Shinners down again & she is not making any progress, so maybe its time for her to retreat from politics & start knitting some black balaclava's for her new kiddies?

jesus man i duno how many things are wrong with that statement. to start of saying you detest SF with every fibre of your body just proves you've already got your mind made up so why bother posting?

silly boy

MikeC101 · 10-06-2009 2:26pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

OMG Liam can you ever argue a point without sounding childish lol

Irony, thy name is NOGMaxpower.

LordSutch · 10-06-2009 2:28pm

I detest everything they stand for & I make no apologies for that, and who can blame me as a Unionist who got seriously close to getting some of my family wiped out by the IRA.

I watched Adams & Co for thirty years on TV, and time & time again they refused to condem the Bomb's & the carnage, and I find it hard to accept that they have just 'chenged' into a family friendly clan who can now be embraced by the likes of me!

Scofflaw · 10-06-2009 2:29pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I wonder how old you are Liam? You seem to argue like a child with no point at all other than trying to prove your opinion is right? i dont think anyone else here is doing that lol.

That's because they'd get an infraction lol. And if they kept it up I'd ban them.

moderately,
Scofflaw

IIMII · 10-06-2009 2:31pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Because they viewed Protestants to a man as their enemy.

Not trying to let truth get in the way of a good story, but:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3410121.stm

Deedsie · 10-06-2009 2:31pm

Is there any constituency in Northern Ireland that the Sinn Fein vote is not growing? Looking at the stats for North Antrim there:

The proportion of nationalist voters in recent elections has been 23% (2001 local government), 26.6% (2001 general election), 27.6% (2003 assembly election), 26.8% (2005 local government) and 27.9% (2005 general election).

North Antrim would be an overwhelming unionist majority constituency.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:34pm

Camelot wrote: »

I detest everything they stand for & I make no apologies for that, and who can blame me as a Unionist who got seriously close to getting some of my family wiped out by the IRA.

I watched Adams & Co for thirty years on TV, and time & time again they refused to condem the Bomb's & the carnage, and I find it hard to accept that they have just 'chenged' into a family friendly clan who can now be embraced by the likes of me!

What do they stand for in your opinion?

Strange though you'd rather hate something than accept change. Are you opposed to the shared governement in the North? Peace? Equality? A united Ireland?

Since you're a Unionist I am sure you're on the outside of the rest of your parties beliefs and would rather wallow in the troubles all over again. or would you rather all the Micks and Finians move out of the 6 counties?

marco murphy · 10-06-2009 2:36pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If they were that professional and didn't target civilians, how did they manage to kill so many of them ?

Professional drivers who don't want to run people over, well......don't.

You're on the right track lad keep going!
I don't want to discuss this further.

Nelson Muntz · 10-06-2009 2:37pm

Perestroika wrote: »

You're on the right track lad keep going!
I don't want to discuss this further.

As well as patronise him, why don't you answer the question?

LordSutch · 10-06-2009 2:45pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

What do they stand for in your opinion?

A thinly disguised version of what they were back in the 70's maybe? anyway, I dont like their economics, I dont like their Republican politics, and I dont like their IRA commerations either > thats's reason enough not to like them full stop!

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Are you opposed to the shared governement in the North? Peace? Equality? A united Ireland?

I agree with shared government in the North, but I oppose the "Republican version" of a United Ireland which is a pipe dream that means nothing in the real world.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Since you're a Unionist I am sure you're on the outside of the rest of your parties beliefs and would rather wallow in the troubles all over again. or would you rather all the Micks and Finians move out of the 6 counties?

Micks and fenians? :cool: ah no > that's not my style, but I do wish that the SDLP would get their house in order & fight back against SF in the North.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:51pm

Camelot wrote: »

A thinly disguised version of what they were back in the 70's maybe? anyway, I dont like their economics, I dont like their Republican politics, and I dont like their IRA commerations either > thats's reason enough not to like them full stop!

I agree with shared government in the North, but I oppose the "Republican version" of a United Ireland which is a pipe dream that means nothing in the real world.

Micks and fenians? :cool: ah no > that's not my style, but I do wish that the SDLP would get their house in order & fight back against SF in the North.

You seem to think they have a master plan to take over the world or something? Their politics are still the same now as it was in the 70's that hasn't changed bar the constitutional changes that were made as per the Good Friday agreement.

"Republican version", surely your fellow unionists hammered this theory to death while it took sooo long to draft the Good Friday Agreement? Their policy is there in black and white for all to see and both governements and all parties have signed up to the Good Friday Agreement so i duno why you are sceptical?

I was only poking ya for fun re Micks and Finians. Although I am worried about your take on the current peace process. I guess it will take some grand jesture of decommissioning and dennouncing all criminality to change your mind.... oh wait they've done that too.

Trotter · 10-06-2009 2:55pm

I saw one political representative on RTE recently telling about how they delighted at the panic of the 'screws' in Mount Joy as a helicopter flew in to help prisoners escape who were put there under the law of this country. He seemed to be still quite entertained by it.

The next day he was on TV looking for votes.

I hear and see SF representatives talk about doing things for the good of the people. Police are good for the people. The representatives I saw refused to condemn the murder of an Irish Garda. This in my opinion is sinister.

I saw recently that IRA t-shirts were for sale on the SF website. I think its distasteful and the idea that they are just a 'souvenir' of a time gone by sickens me.

I'm not getting heavily into this debate, but I'd think Im a fairly normal example of 'Joe Soap', i.e. your general no frills member of the electorate.
For those reasons above, SF seem sinister to me, and thats why I would never vote for them.

Until I would feel comfortable with a SF person in the offices of Justice or Defence, I would never vote for them.

Just my opinion and tuppence worth.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 2:58pm

Trotter wrote: »

I saw one political representative on RTE recently telling about how they delighted at the panic of the 'screws' in Mount Joy as a helicopter flew in to help prisoners escape who were put there under the law of this country. He seemed to be still quite entertained by it.

The next day he was on TV looking for votes.

I hear and see SF representatives talk about doing things for the good of the people. Police are good for the people. The representatives I saw refused to condemn the murder of an Irish Garda. This in my opinion is sinister.

I saw recently that IRA t-shirts were for sale on the SF website. I think its distasteful and the idea that they are just a 'souvenir' of a time gone by sickens me.

I'm not getting heavily into this debate, but I'd think Im a fairly normal example of 'Joe Soap', i.e. your general no frills member of the electorate.
For those reasons above, SF seem sinister to me, and thats why I would never vote for them.

Until I would feel comfortable with a SF person in the offices of Justice or Defence, I would never vote for them.

Just my opinion and tuppence worth.

Finally a fair and just point and opinion of why you wouldn't vote for them. But what you think of their future?

JP Liz · 10-06-2009 3:01pm

How did they do in the elections?

increase seats or decrease the number of seats?

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 3:03pm

JP Liz wrote: »

How did they do in the elections?

increase seats or decrease the number of seats?

they had a minor drop in seats but lost some key ones.

Nelson Muntz · 10-06-2009 3:06pm

Surely what SF supporters should be worried about is the fact that even with a government that is despised by a significant % of the population, they could not improve their position in the republic.

SF do not have any policies to attract middle class voters.

Can'tseeme · 10-06-2009 3:07pm

If Sinn Fein are that sinister, I can't understand why they're getting invites to Downing Street, sharing government with unionists and sitting on the policing board of NI?

LordSutch · 10-06-2009 3:09pm

Because the 'movement' has promised to stop killing people?

marco murphy · 10-06-2009 3:10pm

Trotter wrote: »

I saw one political representative on RTE recently telling about how they delighted at the panic of the 'screws' in Mount Joy as a helicopter flew in to help prisoners escape who were put there under the law of this country. He seemed to be still quite entertained by it.

The next day he was on TV looking for votes.

I hear and see SF representatives talk about doing things for the good of the people. Police are good for the people. The representatives I saw refused to condemn the murder of an Irish Garda. This in my opinion is sinister.

I saw recently that IRA t-shirts were for sale on the SF website. I think its distasteful and the idea that they are just a 'souvenir' of a time gone by sickens me.

I'm not getting heavily into this debate, but I'd think Im a fairly normal example of 'Joe Soap', i.e. your general no frills member of the electorate.
For those reasons above, SF seem sinister to me, and thats why I would never vote for them.

Until I would feel comfortable with a SF person in the offices of Justice or Defence, I would never vote for them.

Just my opinion and tuppence worth.

Their teeshirts mate, they generate money.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 3:12pm

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

Surely what SF supporters should be worried about is the fact that even with a government that is despised by a significant % of the population, they could not improve their position in the republic.

SF do not have any policies to attract middle class voters.

you're kinda on the money dude.

although i would be middle class and well i was a FF voter for years until recent elcetions. what changed my vote was actually speaking to their candidates and listening to their policies on change. Instead of voting on a parties policy that i was born into or a smile on a poster.

That said i think the current climate is unique and well who'd vote for a party with no real economic policy at a time like this. which is why we saw such a massive shift from FF to FG with Labour picking up the scraps.

lets be honest they're going no where and will always be in politics. They can only grow in popularity they didn't see any massive drop in votes like the Greens did.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2009 3:14pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Finally a fair and just point and opinion of why you wouldn't vote for them. But what you think of their future?

Those seem to be precisely the same reasons that I couldn't vote for them.

And obviously their "future" (and potential future votes) depends on what they do about those "fair and just points and opinions".

Taking precisely those points, this means :

1) Supporting the 'screws' in Mount Joy and the democratic rule of law and the generally-accepted definition of what's a crime, not just their own definition
2) Condeming the murder of a Garda
3) Disassociating themselves from the IRA and not having t-shirts "souvenirs" for sale on the SF website

Since we can't answer as to how or when they'll do the above, it means that their future - and their future acceptability to neutrals - is in their own hands.

NOGMaxpower · 10-06-2009 3:14pm

Camelot wrote: »

Because the 'movement' has promised to stop killing people?

Come on Camelot you can do better than that surely?

Trotter · 10-06-2009 3:14pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Finally a fair and just point and opinion of why you wouldn't vote for them. But what you think of their future?

I think they completely underestimate the fact that their future does link heavily to their past, far more than FF/FG Civil war etc.

Before I would even look into their policies, I would have to know that the basics are covered. i.e. condemnation of murders and non sale of T-Shirts commemorating the organisation that killed so many as I grew up. Yes there were two sides to the conflict, but its SF that are looking for me to vote for them, so thats why I focus on that here.

It will be for SF to figure out a way to unlink their future from the past. However the glossy opinions I've often heard that mask a belief of justification for robbery and murder for 'cause' just turn me away. In any conversation I'd like to think I can get a sense of the underlying belief someone may be verbally skirting around. I just get the sense that many in SF, but not all I presume, still feel that some awful things were justified, yet they wont say that.

It boils down to a divergence of beliefs I suppose. Im an Irish Catholic, so as was mentioned before, I'd assume SF would welcome my vote.

I can't stand to see someone like Toiresa Ferris not condemning a murder. Its a pity really. A refusal like that, or an avoidance of doing so shines a light on a shady area if that makes sense. Enough for me not to want to vote in that direction.

Trotter · 10-06-2009 3:16pm

Perestroika wrote: »

Their teeshirts mate, they generate money.

Agreed, they do. But they drive away voters.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

their future - and their future acceptability to neutrals - is in their own hands.

I'd go along with that pretty much.

Can'tseeme · 10-06-2009 3:17pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

they had a minor drop in seats but lost some key ones.

Made gains in places aswell. But all round it wasn't great.

LordSutch · 10-06-2009 3:20pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Come on Camelot you can do better than that surely?

I thought post #113 was quite a good answer to post#112. Anyway, what about my Mary Lou comments? is she a busted flush? or will she make a miraculous recovery in the future? (SF Vice President indeed) :rolleyes:

Sinn Fein...the future?

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