Sinn Fein...the future?

Joey the lips

To the op if you want a serious discussion about the future of sinn fein try somewhere else. This topic is just a generalised discussion on those who dont care less. Its a bit like me discussing the future of fianna failure on this site. I could not really care once its down hill

It seems many of the contrabutions here are the same

José Alaninho

Camelot wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on Mary Lou's abysmal SF Euro performance & her Vice Presidency position :rolleyes:

Anyone any thoughts on Sinn Féin topping the poll in the six northern counties of this country while the Orangies bickered among themselves as to who could hate the Irish the most? :rolleyes:

Happy Monday

José Alaninho wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on Sinn Féin topping the poll in the six northern counties of this country while the Orangies bickered among themselves as to who could hate the Irish the most? :rolleyes:

That comment seems to fly in the face of contributions from our SF Belfast friends who tell us all is sweetness and light in the North between unionists and republicans.

José Alaninho

Happy Monday wrote: »

That comment seems to fly in the face of contributions from our SF Belfast friends who tell us all is sweetness and light in the North between unionists and republicans.

Oh, well here I have to agree with you. All is definitely not sweetness and light in the Six Counties between the two communities, that much is obvious; the so-called 'Peace Walls' are evidence enough. Sectarianism remains rife among the Unionist community despite the wishes of the majority of people to move on from such childish colonial loyalties...

IIMII

Yeah, it's very strange to hear. I've never forgotten being told by the wife of a "loyalist" that he was of the opinion that all Catholics are dirty..! Words just failed me - I just burst out laughing!

I don't think there is an appreciation amongst some as to the pure hatred that exists amongst some unionists for the 'Irish' community as they call us in the north

Nodin

Camelot wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on Mary Lou's abysmal SF Euro performance & her Vice Presidency position :rolleyes:

No, no...Everyones having far too much fun screaming 'PAST ATROCITIES' to bother with that kind of thing......

K-9

IIMII wrote: »

I don't think there is an appreciation amongst some as to the pure hatred that exists amongst some unionists for the 'Irish' community as they call us in the north

Plenty of hate the other way too as I'm sure you are aware. I don't really read too much into either type of hatred, both the same to me.

Bottle_of_Smoke

José Alaninho wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on Sinn Féin topping the poll in the six northern counties of this country while the Orangies bickered among themselves as to who could hate the Irish the most? :rolleyes:

There's still two unionists in three MEP seats. Had SDLP got one of those it would have been worth talking about.

K-9

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

There's still two unionists in three MEP seats. Had SDLP got one of those it would have been worth talking about.

I wonder though if less had voted SDLP No.1 and gave them to SF, would more transfers from SF have made any difference?

Can'tseeme

Happy Monday wrote: »

That comment seems to fly in the face of contributions from our SF Belfast friends who tell us all is sweetness and light in the North between unionists and republicans.

Come on, that comment is scraping the barrel:o

What is pathetic is the hyprocrisy of the southern parties who argue that unionists must share power with Sinn Fein but then when they're asked about going into government themselves, "it would turn their stomach"!?Laughable

KnifeWRENCH

IIMII wrote: »

It might also help to stop manipulating candidate selection to get young women in as prospective candidates - I think the lesson from this set of elections is that recognised hard workers will be elected, and pretty faces whilst not without use, are secondary to track record.

Attractive young women cannot be recognised for their hard work? One of the reasons I voted for Toireasa Ferris because she came across as a very hard worker, not because "ZOMG! SHE's HAWT!!1!!"

Deleted User wrote: »

A very bad European campaign in Dublin, and their golden haired girl lost down here in Munster

In fairness, Ferris still polled very well. She finished ahead of Colm Burke and when eliminated she was only 600 votes behind Kathy Sinnott. She proved herself to be a serious candidate down here.

I don't think SF can do much more than they have done so far. They will never be a major party here because a large number of people will never vote for them based on their past. Also, as someone else said, in their current form they are still a young party down here. I guess what they should do now is to try and attract left-leaning Green Party voters who have lost faith in their party.

SirHenryGrattan

Deleted User wrote: »

At a time when every non Government party is making significant gains, they seem to be stalled or in reverse. A very bad last General Election. A very bad European campaign in Dublin, and their golden haired girl lost down here in Munster, and they also made no impact in the North West when in the last campaign they polled very strongly. They lost a few high profile seats in local politics in Dublin when you would have thought they would have swept in. I see they now have lost another elected Councillor in Dublin.

What's their future?

Ten year forecast.

Fianna Fail will be in opposition after at the next election and will decide to organize in NI. This will be driven by the need to boost the moral of a party not used to being in opposition, a desire to appeal to the Republican vote in the ROI and the possibility of picking up another Euro seat and seats at Westminster. Fianna Fail will propose a merger with the SDLP and will seek to attract moderate or conservative middle class Sinn Fein voters. Fianna Fail will attempt to persuade Sinn Fein not to contest the Westminster elections so that it can maximize the number of Nationalist seats. Fianna Fail MPs will take the oath of allegiance so they can sit at Westminster but they will reconcile this with their republican traditions by campaigning with English and Scottish MPs for the abolition of the Monarchy. The existence of Fianna Fail MPs at Westminster will give any future Fianna Fail leader maximum leverage with the British Government especially if Fianna Fail returns to power in the ROI. Many middle class Nationalist voters support Sinn Fein rather then the SDLP because Sinn Fein has a stronger Irish republican identity than the SDLP. These voters see themselves as constitutional republicans and are likely to switch their support to Fianna Fail, a party that has no links with paramilitaries.

In ten years time Fianna Fail MPs will be sitting at Westminster lobbying for a United Ireland while at the same time pork barreling the NI electorate by squeezing subsidies out of the British exchequer. Sinn Finn will be reduced to rump with limited support among the Nationalist working class, much like the Loyalist PUP while the SDLP will be no more.

You read it here first!

g5fd6ow0hseima

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Ah Sir Anthony O'Reilly's papers lol what service did he do to the crown to be awarded a night hood?

Simple he allowed the spin to be put on SF for the past 30-40 years and is it any surprise that he owns 60-70% of the Irish media?

Come on Ireland open your eyes to the propeghanda machine that has been feeding you tripe all these years! Im not just using that word loosely btw its real and its here on a daily basis.

Propaganda? No!

Actions speak for themselves. Give me a few examples of twisting on behalf of the irish press in recent years please.

conchubhar1

the use of one version of a review on the wind that shakes the barley in the irish sun and one in the english one springs to mind

grattan if that happens i will eat your hat

SirHenryGrattan

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

Ten year forecast.
...
...

You read it here first!

:D

NOGMaxpower

Axton Lazy Hailstone wrote: »

Propaganda? No!

Actions speak for themselves. Give me a few examples of twisting on behalf of the irish press in recent years please.

one big example is enough, he was behind implementing and supporting section 32 or was it 31 can't remember off the top of me head. Whereby SF weren't allowed to be publicised on TV, Radio or in the Press.

An iron curtain of sorts.

Nuff said Leif Erikson.

LordSutch

Section 31 eased the blatant 'in your face' justification of every Policeman shot in the head, every Pub Bombing, every tar & feathering, and every knee capping that were openly justified by the Republican movement in the media ............

conchubhar1

people seem to forget that there was an army in this country and several loyalist groups

so the violence committed wasnt unprovoked
but that was the past you are going to have to get over it

altho

1 - i see how you cant as loyalist groups are still at large

2 - the orange orders still celebrates 1690 and other events :mad:

Souljacker

conchubhar1 wrote: »

people seem to forget that there was an army in this country and several loyalist groups

so the violence committed wasnt unprovoked
but that was the past you are going to have to get over it

altho

1 - i see how you can’t as loyalist groups are still at large

2 - the orange orders still celebrates 1690 and other events :mad:

It was sad that it always seemed to be people uninvolved in terrorism that bore the brunt of the casualties.
It's very hard to see how bombing campaigns, premeditated assassinations of people the provos felt were traitors and intimidation were provoked, but I suppose they were the masters of not taking responsibility for the murders they committed.

1- Republican paramilitaries groups are still at large too, they're just as detestable as the loyalist paramilitaries still involved in terrorism. Would you not agree?

2- The Provos and Sinn Fein still celebrate their campaign of terror, or 'armed struggle' as they see it. The OO and IRA seem to have that in common.

conchubhar1

its all detestable

the ira decommissioned did the uda or uvf or any other? just because a few crackpots continue in the ira does not mean its at large


they do not celebrate the armed struggle - it was neccessary and happened
they dont march through loyalist areas and celebrate it

Liam Byrne

conchubhar1 wrote: »

they do not celebrate the armed struggle - it was neccessary and happened

While I'll avoid the "it was necessary" debate (something was, but I don't agree with the approach they decided on), surely you have to admit that selling t-shirts - of a supposedly "unrelated" organisation - that say "undefeated army" and other such bull**** is tacky and tactless, at best ?

K-9

You just have to look at FF threads and see plenty of people who will never vote FF because of this that or the other.

FG & Labour have voters who will not vote for them too!

So, No, SF aren't disadvantaged because many will not vote for them because of the IRA connection.

anonymous_joe

What a lot of people seem to miss out on here is also pretty crucial -

- Lots of people associate Sinn Féin with the PIRA. Whether you agree or disagree with that is irrelevant, people associate them with that. And some people will vote for them because of that, and some won't.

Ok, we all know that but what about economics?

Sinn Féin are economically retarded. It's not their fault, up North politics is less about, well politics, and a lot more about nationalism and unionism. I'm not saying it's entirely about those issues, it's merely more of a factor. Gerry Adams having his arse handed to him by McDowell at the last general election on telly was a great example of it.

Anyway, that's a problem - economics is basically the most important thing to voters at the moment. Voting for a left wing pseudo-Marxist Eurosceptic party in the midst of the worst recession this country has seen since the years when Dev took over until the mid-90s is just not going to happen. Especially amongst people who are annoyed with the government. While many Irish people are píssed off with FF, they won't vote for a party that they think will make the economic situation even worse.

conchubhar1

no - is gerry or any sinn féin member selling those items?

well on the economics point - people entrusted ff with it and they helped **** it up and they still have 25% support

so i begginning to loose confidence in what people see as good and bad for the country

care to make a specific point on what you disagree with in their economics plan?

Joey the lips

conchubhar1 wrote: »

people seem to forget that there was an army in this country and several loyalist groups

so the violence committed wasnt unprovoked
but that was the past you are going to have to get over it

altho

1 - i see how you cant as loyalist groups are still at large

2 - the orange orders still celebrates 1690 and other events :mad:

They dont forget they just dont care. Kinda normal attitude. You know the one where they all sign in a pub at the end of the night or give praise to the Irish flag when bono holds it up while playing bloody sunday

One thing you cannot knock the unionist population for. They hate us! They think all things Irish are backwards, They will do there up most to make sure they are never Irish even though they agreed to the opposite

But the Irish.... I sometimes wonder how we got this far!

junder

Joey the lips wrote: »

They dont forget they just dont care. Kinda normal attitude. You know the one where they all sign in a pub at the end of the night or give praise to the Irish flag when bono holds it up while playing bloody sunday

One thing you cannot knock the unionist population for. They hate us! They think all things Irish are backwards, They will do there up most to make sure they are never Irish even though they agreed to the opposite

But the Irish.... I sometimes wonder how we got this far!

actully we don't hate all things irish

conchubhar1

conchubhar1 wrote: »

they do not celebrate the armed struggle - it was neccessary and happened
they dont march through loyalist areas and celebrate it

I'd imagine it would take a cheek beyond even the most hardened Shinner to celebrate events like Warrington and Enniskillen or the McCabe murder. They don't exactly wrap themselves in sackcloth and ashes either.

Liam Byrne

conchubhar1 wrote: »

no - is gerry or any sinn féin member selling those items?

Well, SOMEONE made a decision that they would! And if "the organisation" is selling them, then all members are.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imagine it would take a cheek beyond even the most hardened Shinner to celebrate events like Warrington and Enniskillen or the McCabe murder. They don't exactly wrap themselves in sackcloth and ashes either.

And therein lies the big issue......because of their stance on stuff like that, we don't know whether or not they would if there wasn't a public disgust for it.

THAT'S why we need them to say straight out that they condemn them.

Mind you, considering the way FF muddy the waters on the topic any time there's a sniff of corruption and cronyism, it'd be a big ask to know where most politicians REALLY stand on issues......until his climbdown on Bertiegate, McDowell was one of the few that let you know exactly where he stood, and Irish people didn't seem to like that type of politics...

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

no - is gerry or any sinn féin member selling those items?

well on the economics point - people entrusted ff with it and they helped **** it up and they still have 25% support

so i begginning to loose confidence in what people see as good and bad for the country

care to make a specific point on what you disagree with in their economics plan?

I'd go with that point of view, look at Lisbon.

Democracy is a great system except for the voters.

NOGMaxpower

Just a quick question to all the SF/IRA haters on this thread.

If loyalist death squads were roaming the streets murdering your family/friends what would you do? Let alone your religion dictating what level of education/work you'd get in life.

Please bare in mind that the IRA weren't reformed until 1968 when the call from the people in the 6 counties required their reformation. This is prior to any miliary presence by the Brits and the 1st bomb attack was made by the Loyalists.

Im sorry but for me I would've done the exact same thing as the IRA. I would stood up and fought for equality and my basic human rights. People demonise the IRA and SF because of what the Media has portrayed. They forget that they are people normal run of the mill people who were pushed to the point of taking up arms and persuing justice and equality through politics.