Sinn Fein...the future?

NOGMaxpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

If loyalist death squads were roaming the streets murdering your family/friends what would you do?

Was it really like that?

Say in some place like Newry? Or Derry? Or West Belfast? I know a few people who grew up in the North, and while they had some pretty scary moments working in certain areas and a few scraps, they never bumped into the Loyalist murder squads.

Not sure what I'd do if I did. But I know what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't go to Warrington to blow up kids, or support anyone who thought that was an appropriate response.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

the 1st bomb attack was made by the Loyalists.

Ah well, sure that made all the thousands of killings after fine. Did anyone not just go to the teacher and say the other kids started it?

As for demonising because of the media, that's just nonsense. I demonise the IRA because pulling the trigger to blast the head off a teenager is wrong, or killing some father and boobytrapping the body to kill anyone who goes near that victim, not because the Irish Times says it is. Do you honestly think people draw their morality from the media? Does any part of you not think the murder of Jerry McCabe in Adare, Co. Limerick (not at the forefront of some 'Loyalist Murder Gang') was sick, twisted and depraved?

NOGMaxpower

hey im just talking about how it all started. Its not a blame game and well i'd never condone killing anyone. But lets be honest you can't treat people like dogs without them biting you back.

what happend afterwards escalated into the full blown troubles as we know it and the bombin campaign that followed. But there were bombings committed on both sides on both sides of the border!

Yes loyalist death squad roamed the streets and still do (events of 2 weeks ago are proof).

The summer of 1968 so socialist movements across the blobe, in America (Martin Luther King), South Africa (Mandella) and in England (Brixton). The people up north said wait a second lets march and march they did. They were met with violence from the then RUC (Plastic bullets, rifle rounds) and the loyalists went on a campaign of burning out catholics in mixed areas, hangin them from lamp posts, beating women and children. It was only because of these events ie loyalists backed by the RUC that the IRA were reformed (they were disbanded after 1922 outlawed by the Irish Gov). So the IRA were originally brought back to defend against these attacks. Initially it started onthe Antrim road/upper falls road. where 3 guys obtains 2 rifles and 1 revolver from a local theatre (post ww1 guns) and defended against a mob. similar acts of defiance followed in Derry (bog side) and west belfast (Ardoine).

Riots spilled into the streets for days/weeks until the British government stepped in and sent in the troops to police the streets as they knew the RUC were colluding with the Loyalist death squads and couldn't be trusted any more (100% protestant back then). things simmered down til bloody Sunday happend when the brits sent in Paratroopers in fresh from the falklands whcih then lead to over a dozen innocent protesters being murdered in cold blood. It was only then that the people revolted against the army too.

I have family in the north who still live in fear, my cousin was only burnt out of their home last year becuase he married a protestant and lived in a mixed area. The agressor has always been the Loyalists, the catholics/nationalists/republicans only retaliate. Everyone knows violence isn't the answer but come off it faced with that kind of thing you're left with no other choice but to defend yourself.

NOGMaxpower

Deleted User wrote: »

Does any part of you not think the murder of Jerry McCabe in Adare, Co. Limerick (not at the forefront of some 'Loyalist Murder Gang') was sick, twisted and depraved?

i think the murdering of anyone for any reason is depraved and should never happen.

LordSutch

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

what happend afterwards escalated into the full blown troubles as we know it and the bombin campaign that followed. But there were bombings committed on both sides on both sides of the border!

True, but wasnt it something like two Bombs on one day in the South (1974) & Six Bombs in just one day up North? followed by hundreds more Bombings in the North & Britain over the next twenty years . . .

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Yes loyalist death squads roamed the streets and still do (events of 2 weeks ago are proof).

I notice that you dont mention the ultimate 'Death Squads' courtesy of the Provisional IRA & the INLA :mad:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Riots spilled into the streets for days/weeks until the British government stepped in and sent in the troops to police the streets as they knew the RUC were colluding with the Loyalist death squads :rolleyes: and couldn't be trusted any more (100% protestant back then). things simmered down til bloody Sunday happend when the brits sent in Paratroopers in fresh from the falklands whcih then lead to over a dozen innocent protesters being murdered in cold blood. It was only then that the people revolted against the army too.

"Paratroopers in fresh from the falklands" on Bloody Sunday ?

You are inded an indoctrinated fella NOGMaxpower, you are so steeped in Republican ideology that you have lost the run of yourself > Falklands indeed, and anyway, didnt you guys call them the Malvenas in 1982 ?

oscarBravo

This thread is going the way of all such threads, and as such will go the way of all such threads.

Can'tseeme

The point is none of it was right. The IRA bombs, the killings, kingsmill, the miami showband massacre, the massacre in Ballymurphy by British soldiers, Enniskellen, Warrington, the RUC using loyalist gangs for decades, the courts were wrong, Paisley's ulster resistance, Paisley stirring the whole unionist community against nationalists from the early 60's, the unionists were wrong, the discrimination, the blind eye the british and irish governments turned to the oppressive nature of the unionist governemt, the shankill butchers, etc, etc, etc. The north was turned into a fooking sh1thole for all sorts of reasons.

paddyland

The point is simple. What happened, happened. At least the majority of people hopefully can learn from it.

It is the supporters of these nefarious parties who keep the thing going generations after it should be laid to rest. Let it go, stop beating the bloody drum.

dvpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Im sorry but for me I would've done the exact same thing as the IRA.

Really?

You would kidnap a civilian, force him to drive a car bomb to its target and then detonate it?

You would place some bombs in a litter bin and murder some small children?


Well. At least you're sorry about it.

NOGMaxpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

The agressor has always been the Loyalists, the catholics/nationalists/republicans only retaliate.

Yerrah with that kind of thinking sure there really is no point arguing.

I'm just curious, was the agressor in Warrington 3 year old Jonathon Ball, or 12 year old Tim Parry? Clever of the Republicans to get the retaliation in first wasn't it? Heck the kids hadn't even signed up for those...what is it you call them in every post..."Loyalist Death Squads" you seem to think hang around every street in NI...

Joey the lips

junder wrote: »

actully we don't hate all things irish

That was actually a poor generalisation was'nt it.... A bit like the generalisation that the Sinn Fein hates the Unionist population.


See how easy it starts.....

José Alaninho

dvpower wrote: »

Really?You would kidnap a civilian, force him to drive a car bomb to its target and then detonate it?

Yep, ingenious tactic really, and got the job done as can be seen from that article.

As for Warrington, complete accident. Very tragic, but unintentional nonetheless.

But wasnt this thread originally about Sinn Féin's future prospects in the 26 counties? Seems we've gone slightly off track...

PrivateEye

Sinn Fein have to accept the liberal/left leaning middle class vote is wrapped up by Labour, and that by trying to appeal to it they actually alienate their main support base. They've peaked basically.

Sinn Fein have solid support in certain communities, and now can't even deliver TDs there (Look at Sean Crowe in Tallaght for example) The reason for this, is that the push of individuals like Mary Lou McDonald at the expense of hard-grafters like Christy Burke can only ever end one way.

Sinn Fein actually need to look back to look forward I believe, there's a militant (very angry) workers vote out there for the taking and they can have it if they don't water themselves down.

There's a reason Joe Higgins is packing his bags for Brussels and not Mary Lou.

José Alaninho

PrivateEye wrote: »

Sinn Fein have to accept the liberal/left leaning middle class vote is wrapped up by Labour, and that by trying to appeal to it they actually alienate their main support base. They've peaked basically.

Sinn Fein have solid support in certain communities, and now can't even deliver TDs there (Look at Sean Crowe in Tallaght for example) The reason for this, is that the push of individuals like Mary Lou McDonald at the expense of hard-grafters like Christy Burke can only ever end one way.

Sinn Fein actually need to look back to look forward I believe, there's a militant (very angry) workers vote out there for the taking and they can have it if they don't water themselves down.

There's a reason Joe Higgins is packing his bags for Brussels and not Mary Lou.

Very well put.

conchubhar1

Deleted User wrote: »

Yerrah with that kind of thinking sure there really is no point arguing.

I'm just curious, was the agressor in Warrington 3 year old Jonathon Ball, or 12 year old Tim Parry? Clever of the Republicans to get the retaliation in first wasn't it? Heck the kids hadn't even signed up for those...what is it you call them in every post..."Loyalist Death Squads" you seem to think hang around every street in NI...

they were around a few weeks ago when they beat a man to death after the rangers game :mad::mad:

but sure that is irrelevant?

Souljacker

conchubhar1 wrote: »

they were around a few weeks ago when they beat a man to death after the rangers game :mad::mad:

but sure that is irrelevant?

Far from Irrelevant. But I'd be interested to know how the Provo bombing and terror campaign in the past helped to save one life from Loyalist death squads and terrorists groups?

The Provos were a huge part of the cycle of violence in the north, the 1000s of deaths and the 10,000s traumatised during the 4 decades of violence.

José Alaninho

Souljacker wrote: »

But I'd be interested to know how the Provo bombing and terror campaign in the past helped to save one life from Loyalist death squads and terrorists groups?

Eh, who the hell do you think policed nationalist areas during the war? Hint: wasn't the RUC....

conchubhar1

that killing of the man occured in 2009!

show me one statistic that shows that the ''provos'' killed more than the loyalist or the british army in northern ireland

loylist groups now are drug dealers who have been known to kill the odd catholic/nationalist or celtic supporter

they are scum - by the logic of people who are anti sinn féin just because you are not condemning them you are supporters of them... stupid i know but thats their logic

the ira have decommissioned - they have very few numbers


josé - yes - at the time the community saw that they couldnt trust the ruc for their very close connection with loyalism. they became the police and held widespread support and that is how they worked so well as a gureilla army

the loyalist groups are still around - why werent they asked to disband?

José Alaninho

conchubhar1 wrote: »

josé - ''policed'' is giving them too much credit....

the loyalist groups are still around - why werent they asked to disband?

How is that giving them too much credit? That's what they did. The PIRA policed nationalist areas, because the RUC where basically inseparable from the Loyalist murder squads that posed a threat to the area.

conchubhar1

crap
i saw loyalist for nationalist there - my bad

José Alaninho

conchubhar1 wrote: »

crap
i saw loyalist for nationalist there - my bad

Let's just hope you don't start doing that in real life man :P

conchubhar1

never ahahah

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

This thread is going the way of all such threads, and as such will go the way of all such threads.

...and tomorrow's lottery numbers will be...