Taking pictures at night, help?

Hi all,


Very new to this whole thing. Bought a DSLR camera recently that fitted my budget (ended up with an Olympus E-420). Didn't know anything about DSLR's when buying, but hope to learn as I go on.


Anyway,


I was just out going for a quick walk when I thought I'd try and take a pic or two in the night time to see if it would be any good (I had the camera in my bag/backpack). So i take it out, and take a picture or two and it all looks crap, indeed.


My question is.. am I missing something? Is there a setting that's particularly good for night shots? (I went into "Scene" on the camera and chose 'Night Scene' for a photo or two but it didn't improve much).


Pretty much, I was up on a hill looking down at a road, near the end of the town (if anyone is from Drogheda, I was standing at the top of the Grove Hill, looking down onto the main road that passes Narrow West St.).

Am I missing something very simple here? or is the camera just a terrible camera? (or is it a lens issue?).



The photos all look very similar:









With the exception being this one.







But that is obviously not much better. (It's probably worth noting that the road/buildings are a fair bit away from where I was standing).


I can live happily knowing the camera wont be much cop at night time. I probably won't be using it much like this, but If there's an easy fix to the problem, I'd love to be able to sort it out.


Sorry for such a long post. Very grateful to anyone who can offer me some insight here.

soccerc

At 1.6 seconds exposure time the camera would need to be on a tripod.

The white balance is set for a sunny/fine day with an ISO of 100 at f4.7

So, use a tripod and up the ISO to 1600 if the camera can take it.

Use auto white balance and open the aperture as wide as possible on the lens.

Trojan911

As above.

Trojan911

mrmac

soccerc wrote: »

At 1.6 seconds exposure time the camera would need to be on a tripod.

The white balance is set for a sunny/fine day with an ISO of 100 at f4.7

So, use a tripod and up the ISO to 1600 if the camera can take it.

Use auto white balance and open the aperture as wide as possible on the lens.

Yep, that'll sure help!

If you have a really steady tripod, and perhaps a cable release, you could have a shutter speed of several seconds, which will help get as much of the available light into your camera.

Your camera should be fine, you just need to practice

Try the above suggestions, and come back with an update.

Probably worth noting that I don't have a tripod and more than likely, I never will.



I'll google around to see what aperture, ISO, etc. mean and how I adjust them on my camera and see if I can learn anything that way.


Thanks for the feedback guys.

soccerc

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably worth noting that I don't have a tripod and more than likely, I never will.



I'll google around to see what aperture, ISO, etc. mean and how I adjust them on my camera and see if I can learn anything that way.


Thanks for the feedback guys.

You got a manual with your camera, use that, you'd be amazed at what it will reveal.

Secondly try get your hands on a copy of Understanding Exposure by Bryan Patterson.

Using both in tandem should give you a better understanding of basic photography

soccerc

soccerc wrote: »

You got a manual with your camera, use that, you'd be amazed at what it will reveal.

Secondly try get your hands on a copy of Understanding Exposure by Bryan Patterson.

Using both in tandem should give you a better understanding of basic photography

I've been meaning to look through the manual, but it's so thick. It scares me off due to it's size, but I know I'll have to take a look through it sooner or later. It just seems like there's quite a large learning curve when it comes to actually knowing what you're doing with cameras.

I'll probably play about with the camera outside in the daytime tomorrow for an hour or so, and then delve into the manual for a little while. Hopefully I'll pick something up.


Thanks for your help. Just feel kinda relieved to know that it doesn't necessarily mean I ended up with a terrible camera. :pac:

CabanSail

Can I ask why you purchased a DSLR Camera?

It would seem to me from what you have posted that a good compact would have suited you a lot better and saved you some money too.

If you buy a DSLR & set it to Auto you really just have a larger Point & Shoot Camera. It is with understanding how to control & interpret light which will allow you to use the tool you now own. The manual will look very thick & daunting if you do not have the concepts of how light works in your mind.

One thing to keep in mind is that you need to learn to see the world as your camera does. This may sound silly to someone who is not into photography, but the camera will see the light just as it is & capture it acording to the way it is set. Your eye & brain "process" the light and give you a picture in your head. Now I cannot see the photo's you have posted, but I know that what you perceived on the night was a completely different scene to that which was recorded on your camera. When you understand more of light you will then be able to come up with lots of different ways to record what is there. If you are bitten by the bug then it can be an enjoyable journey.

Ballyman

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably worth noting that I don't have a tripod and more than likely, I never will.

That's what you think now!!!! You'll have one within 6 months. Guaranteed.

soccerc wrote: »

Secondly try get your hands on a copy of Understanding Exposure by Bryan Patterson.

If you take anything from this thread then listen to this peice of advice above. Once you have that read, you will see and UNDERSTAND what you did wrong with the photo's above.

Best of luck.

Morrisseeee

Try this link: alot of usefull info in there. http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/e510-sett.html

I have an Olympus aswell, an E510, and I switched to MANUAL mode shortly after getting it !! thereby forcing myself to 'understand' the camera, I think if you REALLY want to learn how it works, then this is the only way, also set yourself ONE specific task, like recreating a photo you've seen (or follow an article/how-to in a photo magazine) and stay with it until you are happy with the results .

Night shots = tripod, end of story (well alot of the time), and I'm sure if you look for one, they can be got cheap enough.
If you want any help with settings (etc) on the E420 then don't be afraid to ask...;)

duffarama

Tripod or any sturdy surface that you can place your camera on, maybe even a bean bag would do.

Then, mirror lock up (called anti shock in the menu) and close the aperture down (f8 onwards) and you'll get more light in over a longer length of time. Say, 10-20 seconds should do it. The manual will help.

I've an E620 and previous had an E-410, you can take some great night shots, but not hand held!

majiktripp

Both E-420 night shots, found through flickr search.

Perfectly capable camera. As suggested, best to read the manual and get to grips with whatever particular scenerios you'll be using the camera in.

Paulw

Here's a video tutorial that might give you some pointers, and a start of learning.

http://www.photoanswers.co.uk/signup/Module-5-Video-Tip/

Cabaal

majiktripp wrote: »

Both E-420 night shots, found through flickr search.

Perfectly capable camera. As suggested, best to read the manual and get to grips with whatever particular scenerios you'll be using the camera in.

I'd imagine both photos were taken with a tripod of some sort or by putting the camera on a solid surface (especially that second one).

The camera is well capable its just about the right settings.

I remember years ago when I went to Las Vegas I had a Canon S50 and I took pretty good night photos, next time I went I bought a DSLR while I was in Vegas and took night photos but half of them came out ****e

This time around I have myself a tripod and ALOT more knowledge of my DSLR so I'm happy I'll be more then capable of doing a good job

Two of my shots are coming up for the 500d night pictures (http://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/eos_500d/) which is cool I guess..

How are those pictures chosen?

gary82

CabanSail wrote: »

Can I ask why you purchased a DSLR Camera?

It would seem to me from what you have posted that a good compact would have suited you a lot better and saved you some money too.

Exactly what I was thinking!

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably worth noting that I don't have a tripod and more than likely, I never will.

I can't understand this attitude? It infuriates me in fact! Sounds like you got the camera because of excess cash rather than an enthusiasm for photography. Met another local guy recently who always carries his expensive dslr around, assumed he was a great photographer, then when talking to him I soon realised he either shoots in Auto or some "scene" mode.

Am I just jealous? Yeah, probably :P , bugs me when people aren't getting full use out of their dslr when I'm wrestling with my "bridge" camera!

The advice from the above posters is great. Learn about aperture, iso, shutterspeeds and how they're interconnected... hopefully then you'll get the bug and be back soon looking for a tripod recommendation! :cool:

kumate_champ07

soccerc wrote: »

up the ISO to 1600 if the camera can take it.

it cant. iso 800 is pretty noisy on an e420, 1600 is bad and needs alot of cleaing up to get anything out of it.

for night time photography of moving objects olympus dslr's are the wrong choice. stick to iso 100 and a tripod. if u need to use higher iso's switch off noise reduction and process the files in noise ninja as a tiff from whatever raw convertion softwate u use. ive never used olympus master so not sure how good it is.

oh and auto mode is limited to iso 400. use aperture priorty and monitor the shutter speeds in the viewfinder. if its less than 1/40 for moving objects it will blur, unless u use wide angle like the kit lens at 14mm u might get 1/15

kumate_champ07

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been meaning to look through the manual, but it's so thick. It scares me off due to it's size, but I know I'll have to take a look through it sooner or later. It just seems like there's quite a large learning curve when it comes to actually knowing what you're doing with cameras.

I'll probably play about with the camera outside in the daytime tomorrow for an hour or so, and then delve into the manual for a little while. Hopefully I'll pick something up.


Thanks for your help. Just feel kinda relieved to know that it doesn't necessarily mean I ended up with a terrible camera. :pac:

the manual has info in a few different languages, thats why its so thick. just read the english section

kumate_champ07

8second exposure at iso 100 olympus e510. camera was resting on a bag, no tripod


this is when liveview come in handy

CabanSail

Hey again everyone.


Thanks for the recommendations and opinions. The manual is actually entirely English, but once you start taking a mooch through it it doesn't seem as packed.

CabanSail wrote: »

Can I ask why you purchased a DSLR Camera?

It would seem to me from what you have posted that a good compact would have suited you a lot better and saved you some money too.

gary82 wrote: »

I can't understand this attitude? It infuriates me in fact! Sounds like you got the camera because of excess cash rather than an enthusiasm for photography. Met another local guy recently who always carries his expensive dslr around, assumed he was a great photographer, then when talking to him I soon realised he either shoots in Auto or some "scene" mode.

Well, to answer the questions:

gary82 wrote: »

Learn about aperture, iso, shutterspeeds and how they're interconnected... hopefully then you'll get the bug and be back soon looking for a tripod recommendation! :cool:

I bought the camera because I want to learn about this kind of thing. I used to use a Kodak Easyshare Z710 camera, but it reached the end of it's life and I decided to try my luck with a DSLR camera. I enjoy photography. I enjoy looking at a lot of the photographs taken on here, and I like taking pictures. It's a small interest I have that I never really paid much attention to. However, I decided that whilst i was looking around for a new camera I may aswell purchase a DSLR and try to figure it all out.


I have, literally, no idea what ISO means. I've no idea about aperture, etc. either. Hopefully, in a few months time, though, I'll have a better idea of the workings of DSLR cameras, a better knowledge on how to use the camera, I'll be more into taking photographs on a regular routine, and when necessary, I'll know what settings to adjust when I have to take an awkward photo.



I never plan to buy a tripod because I don't ever see myself dragging one around with me. I think it'd be very unlikely that I'd ever own a tripod (though never say never). Maybe some day I will have a collection of tripods, but as of right now, I have no interest in getting one. It's just a small interest i have (photography). I want to see if I'll "get the bug", as you guys keep saying, and then I'll obviously learn as i go along.


majiktripp, thanks for those photos. Very useful to see what the camera can actually do once you know how to use it.



Thanks a lot to everyone for their assistance here.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

I never plan to buy a tripod because I don't ever see myself dragging one around with me. I think it'd be very unlikely that I'd ever own a tripod (though never say never). Maybe some day I will have a collection of tripods, but as of right now, I have no interest in getting one. It's just a small interest i have (photography). I want to see if I'll "get the bug", as you guys keep saying, and then I'll obviously learn as i go along.

Size obviously appears to be a concern, if so try one of these
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1017697

I bought one for my honeymoon this year as it will give me the options of night photos but without carrying a large tripod

ThOnda

Deleted User wrote: »

I never plan to buy a tripod because I don't ever see myself dragging one around with me.

Tripod could be understood as an accessory, or a tool. Every job requires it's own tools and/or accessories. If you want to take pictures with a little slower times, the tripod is designed to allow you doing that. Nobody says that you have to buy 15 kg wooden tripod :eek:
There are smaller tripods, like the Gorrilla pod, that are quite small and will allow you doing such experiments, even just taking pictures on your table.
Mini-tripods (like this one that is also my favourite) cost almost nothing and you can use them for example for off-camera flash too.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

Size obviously appears to be a concern, if so try one of these
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1017697

I bought one for my honeymoon this year as it will give me the options of night photos but without carrying a large tripod

That's actually not so bad. When i think tripod, i think:









I'm still not very familiar with this kind of stuff. Regardless though, I'm still gonna focus on learning more about the actual camera before I start looking for other accessories.


Cheers for the help though. How big are those tripod things you linked to? they look like they are flexible?

whyulittle

Deleted User wrote: »

Cheers for the help though. How big are those tripod things you linked to? they look like they are flexible?

They are about 10 inches from top to bottom. The legs are flexible, so you can wrap it around things.

Freddie59

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been meaning to look through the manual, but it's so thick. It scares me off due to it's size, but I know I'll have to take a look through it sooner or later. It just seems like there's quite a large learning curve when it comes to actually knowing what you're doing with cameras.

I'll probably play about with the camera outside in the daytime tomorrow for an hour or so, and then delve into the manual for a little while. Hopefully I'll pick something up.


Thanks for your help. Just feel kinda relieved to know that it doesn't necessarily mean I ended up with a terrible camera. :pac:

As soccerc says: get THIS BOOK

Just thought I'd post here again to say thanks again to everyone for their help.

Aperture is still a bit confusing to me (distance-based focus, it seems?) and shutter speed is making a bit more sense. I've flicked through the manual and downloaded a copy of the book (don't worry, if i get past the contents page i'll buy it).


I've been messing about with the camera some more and trying my luck with different stuff. I took these two photos (and a few others) about an hour or two ago (in Drogheda around the town). I know they're not much cop in comparison to a lot of the photos on here, but they're probably the best night-time photos I've ever took, so I'm happy with them, and wanted to thank everyone for steering me in the right direction




Scotch Hall Shopping Centre







Garda Station

xia

I can't say if there is something to improve as I don't have a clue about night photography. But I like both and the first better, especially with the reflection of the bridge and the partially bright sky above.

nilhg

Those two shots are a huge improvement on the first ones you posted, I've said here many times that starting off with any DSLR is a huge learning curve but it looks as if the OP is over the steepest part of it.

TJM

Deleted User wrote: »

I took these two photos (and a few others) about an hour or two ago (in Drogheda around the town). I know they're not much cop in comparison to a lot of the photos on here, but they're probably the best night-time photos I've ever took, so I'm happy with them, and wanted to thank everyone for steering me in the right direction

Great to see such a massive improvement in such a short period. I like the Scotch Hall photo in particular.

KarmaGarda

You should be happy with them! Both photos are very good in my eyes, but the first one in my opinion is a lot better. The reflection on the water is excellent.

As you progress (like I have over the last couple of months!) you'll prob start tweaking photos a bit, for example using crops to to highlight/position certain items in the photo at specific locations. This will vary from photographer to photographer so just find your style.

Finally, I think gary82 was a little harsh in regards to owning a Tripod. I don't think not wanting a tripod yet has a reflection on somebodies "attitude" towards photography. I own a tripod and quite frankly I carry it about on about 1 out of 10/15 expeditions I go on, and that's only when there's a specific photo I'm after. There's so much you can do without a tripod so I wouldn't worry about that. Once you get used to your new camera you should easily be able to take some 1 - 2 second exposures in your hands anyway. I find when I get my balance, I'll focus, take about 4/5 shots in a row (never allowing the camera to refocus), and I usually have over 50% with perfect focus.

But, if you're like me, once you "get the bug" you'll start wanting to do 30 seconds+ exposures at certain locations that don't have a flat resting place so will probably need a tripod.

KarmaGarda

Thanks again for the nice words guys. It is appreciated, as is the help you've all given me with this.



Karma Garden, I thin I may end up investing in one of the smaller tripods posted on the previous page by Cabaal.







Can i ask though, in relation to tripods, are there certain tripods for certain cameras, or are they universal and fit all cameras? Just looking to find out if I need to look out for something in particular, or a connection size or something like that, to make sure it'll be compatible with my camera.

KarmaGarda wrote: »

As you progress (like I have over the last couple of months!) you'll prob start tweaking photos a bit, for example using crops to to highlight/position certain items in the photo at specific locations. This will vary from photographer to photographer so just find your style.

That's still a bit over my head at the moment, so I'm not going to get too caught up in it just yet. I'm still just going to try and figure out how to use the actual camera for another few weeks. I have played about with shutter speed (the photos I posted on the previous page took about 30 seconds each) but I haven't really looked at using aperture yet, as I'm still a bit clueless as to what it actually is.




Thanks again to everyone with your help on this.

KarmaGarda

Yeah, I'm going to kind of agree with the above. Good night shots really need exposures over at least 20 seconds (depending on the light source and subject). So you will need either a tripod or a flat surface to really pull this off.

OK, Can anyone tell me, keeping in mind I own an Olympus E420, Will this be compatible with my camera, and would you guys recommend it?



http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-Joby-SLR-GorillaPod-Gorilla-Pod-Camera-Tripod_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1301Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem20ac26e709QQitemZ140327184137QQptZUKQ5fCamerasPhotoQ5fCameraAccessoriesQ5fTripodsSupportsQQsalenotsupported

Ghost Train

Deleted User wrote: »

OK, Can anyone tell me, keeping in mind I own an Olympus E420, Will this be compatible with my camera, and would you guys recommend it?



http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-Joby-SLR-GorillaPod-Gorilla-Pod-Camera-Tripod_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1301Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem20ac26e709QQitemZ140327184137QQptZUKQ5fCamerasPhotoQ5fCameraAccessoriesQ5fTripodsSupportsQQsalenotsupported

most cameras have the same type of thread mount so this should do

you could check dpreview forums if you want to see what other e420 users use

Ghost Train

not sure if it was mentioned, but using the 2 sec or 10 second self timer to take the picture will avoid any shake that pushing the button can cause

some of my nightshots from sydney, just resting camera on wall and bench
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eolhc/470128196/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eolhc/470470614/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eolhc/470470618/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eolhc/470083194/

mloc

soccerc wrote: »

up the ISO to 1600 if the camera can take it.

I wouldn't increase your ISO past minimum if you are using a sturdy tripod or other stable surface. Long exposures induce enough noise as it is, the additional noise of a high ISO will add up to very noisy images. On top of this, a lower ISO (with the subsequent longer exposure) should give you a slightly larger appearant dynamic range in your final image; pretty handy in generally dark night photography.

(Sorry OP if that sounds a bit confusing, you'll understand soon!)

Just bought the "SLR Zoom" version of the Gorillapod. Never thought I'd own a tripod. Does anyone else use one of these? As sturdy as they make it look in the pictures? Or is that all just a marketing ploy?

mloc

http://www.keyframephoto.com/talks/p101.ppt

You might want to have a look at that very basic presentation I put together a while back for a photo club. It's just the slides without the annotation but should explain a good bit of the basics for you.

CabanSail

Deleted User wrote: »

Can I ask though, in relation to tripods, are there certain tripods for certain cameras, or are they universal and fit all cameras? Just looking to find out if I need to look out for something in particular, or a connection size or something like that, to make sure it'll be compatible with my camera.

"Most" cameras use a 1/4" Whitworth thread for Tripod attachments. Some Large Format Cameras & Heads use 3/8" Whitworth thread.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just bought the "SLR Zoom" version of the Gorillapod. Never thought I'd own a tripod. Does anyone else use one of these? As sturdy as they make it look in the pictures? Or is that all just a marketing ploy?

I have used mine quite a bit. You have to practice using it a bit & work out the best way to get it stable, but they do work quite well. They are not as good as a proper Tripod, but then can stick it in your pocket & have it with you.