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Vegetarians on Abortion.

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2

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    #32
    BurnsCarpenter
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭BurnsCarpenter


    Veggie and pro-life.

    Don't really see the two issues as being related.


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    #33
    smegmar
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭smegmar


    Veggie and strongly pro life.

    from an ethical point I think the two are linked, it's all about standing up for something classed as not developed enough to deserve life.


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    #34
    Censorsh!t
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Censorsh!t


    Well, I imagine many people view vegetarians as being pro life, I mean I guess it would make sense for many. But it's really more complex than that. It depends when you believe life begins, and if it's wrong to take a life that could have been etc etc.
    I personally, am pro choice.


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    #35
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    Just realised I didn't post my views, I am most definitely pro-choice.


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    #36
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    Camarague wrote: »
    I can't see any logic here. Surely pro-choice would be from a live and let live point of view - but then take a judgemental view of people that eat meat?

    i never said i understand him, i just said i love him ;)


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    #37
    Camarague
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Camarague


    Censorsh!t wrote: »
    Well, I imagine many people view vegetarians as being pro life, I mean I guess it would make sense for many. But it's really more complex than that. It depends when you believe life begins, and if it's wrong to take a life that could have been etc etc.
    I personally, am pro choice.


    I would think most vegetarians are seen as left-wing types, and therefore pro-choice.

    When I became a vegetarian about two years ago, I was unshakeable in my belief that it was wrong to kill animals to eat them.

    I was also strongly pro-life two years ago for exactly the same reason. So I do see the issues as being linked.

    But my views have progressed and although I am still a vegetarian and still consider myself essentially pro-life, I don't see things as simply as I did then.

    I now believe for example, that you can be an animal rights activist while being a meat eater, and understand how wrong it is to judge somebody who has had an abortion, etc


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    #38
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Just clicked form the front pages and found this interesting, I'm not a veggie.

    I think that while it's likely that vegetarians would be either pro-life or be legally pro-choice but would never have an abortion (/want their partner to have an abortion) themselves, it wouldn't be that unusual for a vegetarian to be pro-abortion.

    Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.


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    #39
    -lala-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭-lala-


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.

    Yeah, I'd agree with this - unless, of course, the vegan in question is not a vegan for ethical reasons, although I've never heard of any such vegans.


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    #40
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    JC 2K3 wrote: »

    Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.

    The reason they can be is because people believe life happens at different stages. Whether it be at conception or when nerve endings form or whatever. If people think abortion is getting rid of something that is not life then they could be vegan and pro choice, yes?


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    #41
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    But vegans don't even eat unfertilized chicken eggs, wouldn't make sense that they'd be for killing fertilized human eggs.

    Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.


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    #42
    Camarague
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Camarague


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    But vegans don't even eat unfertilized chicken eggs, wouldn't make sense that they'd be for killing fertilized human eggs.

    Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.


    Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

    Never seen that label on any eggs


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    #43
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    JC 2K3 wrote: »

    Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.

    Yes this is what I meant, and even f they wanted to harvest the humans, for example :D, they could get consent.


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    #44
    BurnsCarpenter
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭BurnsCarpenter


    Camarague wrote: »
    Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

    Never seen that label on any eggs

    All of the eggs we eat are unfertilised. Chicken period, so to speak.
    Fertilised eggs would be a bit more.....beaky. :eek:


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    #45
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Camarague wrote: »
    Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

    Never seen that label on any eggs
    Errr....


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    #46
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    No need for that smegmar.

    People have been offend, next time is a ban. Be a good chap.


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    #47
    raah!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    I think we can at least make a statistically valid connection that; vegetarians who are vegetarians for certain ethical reasons (and make decisions regarding other people based on these same ethical concerns) would not compose the pro-choice group who use arguments like "even though it's a person...".

    I never thought of the "I wouldn't but other people can" abortion stance though, which makes alot of sense too in connection to "I wouldn't eat meat but other people can" type vegetarians. I think this shows an admirable ideological consistancy which is not found in many peoples abortion views today. As for me I'm a vegetarian who doesn't force it on other people, but I do think human life is slightly more important still, so I am anti-abortion, mainly because I don't think we have a complete enough understanding of the biology yet to define when the life is human etc etc.

    I think they are most certainly connected though, just there are different categories of vegetarians, and different categories of pro/anti-abortion people.


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    #48
    Aoifums
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Aoifums


    I'm a vegan and I'm pro choice. I don't want you telling me what to do if it were my body, so I can't tell you what to do with yours. I don't think I could get an abortion though, but I still can't force you not to have one.


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    #49
    Mentalmiss
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭Mentalmiss


    I am vegan and atheist and firmly anti abortion.
    By all means be pro choice but make the choice before you have sex and use contraception.
    I would not try to stop anyone else having an abortion and in fact have travelled twice to the UK to accompany others who had made that choice. I think that we should educate people and not condemn them.


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    #50
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    ... and for those that used contraception, only for it to fail...?


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    #51
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Crumble Froo wrote: »
    ... and for those that used contraception, only for it to fail...?

    What do you mean?


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    #52
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    What do you mean?

    People don't "choose" for a condom to break :P

    Personally I'm pro-choice, not sure what I'd do if I magically got knocked up, suppose it'd depend on circumstances; who the father was etc, though really, at twenty years of age, with plenty of family support I doubt I could justify an abortion to myself personally, though as other people have said, I'd never judge anyone else for getting one. However, the ethical reasons for my diet are basically just a footnote to the health reasons so it doesn't really count.


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    #53
    Fugly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Fugly


    Interesting post. It depends on the reasons a person chooses to be a veggie. Ethically, they could see both decisions as connected. But I think because there as so many varied reasons for being a veggie, this tread won't come to a conclusion as such. I like the way way you think OP, interesting post.

    P.S. veggie & pro-choice. :D:D:D:D


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    #54
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Welcome aboard new veggie poster :)


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    #55
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    What do you mean?
    George Jolly Ballpoint wrote: »
    People don't "choose" for a condom to break :P

    pretty much that...


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    #56
    Monkey61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Monkey61


    I really cannot see the link between veganism and being pro-life.

    I don't like the idea of animals being exploited/killed - as for people I'm not really that bothered. So very pro-choice.


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    #57
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Crumble Froo wrote: »
    pretty much that...

    But what is your point? :p
    I know people don't choose it to fail, just dunno what that means in context to this. :)


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    #58
    BurnsCarpenter
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭BurnsCarpenter


    Monkey61 wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of animals being exploited/killed - as for people I'm not really that bothered. So very pro-choice.

    Wow.
    You're one of those vegetarians that meat eaters always bring up in arguments. Never really thought they existed.


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    #59
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    BurnsCarpenter wrote: »
    Wow.
    You're one of those vegetarians that meat eaters always bring up in arguments. Never really thought they existed.

    Ye, I have never seen one either, can we poke it? :pac:


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    #60
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Monkey61 wrote: »
    I really cannot see the link between veganism and being pro-life.

    I don't like the idea of animals being exploited/killed - as for people I'm not really that bothered. So very pro-choice.

    Not_sure_if_your_serious.ashx


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    #61
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    But what is your point? :p
    I know people don't choose it to fail, just dunno what that means in context to this. :)

    argh, sorry... i tried elaborating on it last night and couldnt get a coherent sentence together...

    basically jsut that people seem to have set dos and donts... like it's ok to have an abortion *if* you had been using contraception and it failed, but it's not ok if you hadn't been using contraception... as though the end result is somehow different or something...


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