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Homosexual Adoption opinions.

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  • 12-06-2009 12:53am
    #1
    CaptainSkidmark
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭


    IM not sure if ye have spoken about this before and its being spoken about on another forum but i have come here to seek the opinions of others.

    Do you think it should be aloud?

    Dont get me wrong for the couple of course it would be a great thing.. but it would surely have a deep affect on the child's up bringing such as confusion or being bullied at school.


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    #2
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,375 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I think, like many things, its a matter of gently, gently.

    Certainly, I think a case could be supported where one of the adults is a biological parent of the child.


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    #3
    hot2def
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭hot2def


    Seriously, what is the point of coming into the GLBT forum, and asking gravely if gay people should have rights?

    I mean really, is there a purpose beyond causing a ruckus?


    If you have a point of view on this, and clearly you do, then present your PROOF and let people support or refute it. Otherwise, stir the pot elsewhere....


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    #4
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    hot2def wrote: »
    Seriously, what is the point of coming into the GLBT forum, and asking gravely if gay people should have rights?

    I mean really, is there a purpose beyond causing a ruckus?


    If you have a point of view on this, and clearly you do, then present your PROOF and let people support or refute it. Otherwise, stir the pot elsewhere....


    Once again, defensive people. You'd swear the OP was all for forcing you to wear a pink triangle or something.
    Calm it down!

    I personally would have no problem with homosexuals adopting so long as the child would have a better life with them than with any other couple.
    This means especially that children in developing countries should not be prohibted from being adopted by gays as they'd certainly have a better life being brought up with homosexual parents than llife on the streets.


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    #5
    CaptainSkidmark
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭CaptainSkidmark


    i Dont have a opinion on it thats the thing..... i was reading it on another forum but the only thing is no one has a proper opinion because they are all straight!

    Im not here to cause a ruckus, im here to get a proper opinion!

    I do apologize if i hurt anyones feelings it is not my intention at all. But at the same time we cant avoid a discussion all the time just in case someone disapproves. Its a grown up reasonable discussion.


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    #6
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Sir Baralot wrote: »
    Once again, defensive people. You'd swear the OP was all for forcing you to wear a pink triangle or something.
    Calm it down!

    I invoke godwins law, you loose.


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    #7
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    In an ideal world, it would be nice to have both a mother and father figure, but having two loving gay parents is a lot better than being stuck in an orphanage.

    I think if a child is loved and brought up right, I don't think the sexuality of the parents really matters. Any potential bullying issue can be managed.


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    #8
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I invoke godwins law, you loose.

    Touché!


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    #9
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I don't think the issue here is with the sexuality of the parents. Anybody who would object to two caring parents from bringing up a child, purely because of their sexuality is very narrow-minded.

    I think the real issue today with gay adoption is the reaction from society towards it. How will the child be treated in school? Will they be bullied? And the answers are - Yes, they will most likely be bullied and it may have a big impact on them. They are very valid questions to ask - because afterall, the most important person is the child.

    So what do you do about it? Education in my opinion. Children need to be taught from a young age that homosexuality is just a normal part of some people's lives and that there is nothing out of the ordinary about it. This is a hard thing to accomplish, given the control of the catholic church over education. I could only imagine the grief I would have received when I went to school if I had been adopted by a gay couple. So this type of narrow-minded behaviour needs to be hit on the head from the get go.

    I believe in the right of civil equality for everybody. There is an onus on your Government to ensure that civil equality is a normal part of everyday life for everybody. While I'd hope opinion towards the gay community is better now - like all things, I'm sure it has room for improvement.

    So if you were to ask me would I personally have a problem with it based on principle? Absolutely not. But would society have a problem with it? I would hazard a guess that it would. There is obviously work to be done. Ireland has seen alot of civil inequality in it's history, and this is another chapter with which I hope ends on a high note.


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    #10
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't think the issue here is with the sexuality of the parents. Anybody who would object to two caring parents from bringing up a child, purely because of their sexuality is very narrow-minded.

    I think the real issue today with gay adoption is the reaction from society towards it. How will the child be treated in school? Will they be bullied? And the answers are - Yes, they will most likely be bullied and it may have a big impact on them. They are very valid questions to ask - because afterall, the most important person is the child.

    So what do you do about it? Education in my opinion. Children need to be taught from a young age that homosexuality is just a normal part of some people's lives and that there is nothing out of the ordinary about it. This is a hard thing to accomplish, given the control of the catholic church over education. I could only imagine the grief I would have received when I went to school if I had been adopted by a gay couple. So this type of narrow-minded behaviour needs to be hit on the head from the get go.

    I believe in the right of civil equality for everybody. There is an onus on your Government to ensure that civil equality is a normal part of everyday life for everybody. While I'd hope opinion towards the gay community is better now - like all things, I'm sure it has room for improvement.

    So if you were to ask me would I personally have a problem with it based on principle? Absolutely not. But would society have a problem with it? I would hazard a guess that it would. There is obviously work to be done. Ireland has seen alot of civil inequality in it's history, and this is another chapter with which I hope ends on a high note.

    I think you nailed it.What comes first is how it affects the child and for this very reason i object to gay adoptions.Im all for equality and i am pro gay marriage as its 2 consenting adults who choose their path.Children on the otherhand didnt have a choice and are very impressionable .Having a gay couple raise them will affect them in the wrong way in my opinion.I know there are many broken families but when it comes down to it,the most balanced upbringing for a child is both a mother and father.


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    #11
    Cabbage Brained
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Cabbage Brained


    Of course it should be allowed. The amount of kids in this world with NO parents and living in absolute dire poverty is absolutely shocking. Any policy or law that stops these kids from finding a loving and caring home is plain wrong.

    And the bullying argument is a load of bollix. Should black people not be allowed have kids because their kids might be subjected to discrimination?


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    #12
    oisindoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 899 ✭✭✭oisindoyle


    hot2def wrote: »
    Seriously, what is the point of coming into the GLBT forum, and asking gravely if gay people should have rights?

    I mean really, is there a purpose beyond causing a ruckus?


    If you have a point of view on this, and clearly you do, then present your PROOF and let people support or refute it. Otherwise, stir the pot elsewhere....

    I totally agree ,,,,Well said


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    #13
    mobius42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I think you nailed it.What comes first is how it affects the child and for this very reason i object to gay adoptions.Im all for equality and i am pro gay marriage as its 2 consenting adults who choose their path.Children on the otherhand didnt have a choice and are very impressionable .Having a gay couple raise them will affect them in the wrong way in my opinion.I know there are many broken families but when it comes down to it,the most balanced upbringing for a child is both a mother and father.

    But children are bulled for all sorts of stupid reasons. Kids are bullied for having fat parents, black parents or Traveller parents. You don't use that as a reason for not letting those people adopt so why should this apply to gay people?

    Studies have shown that same-sex relationships are the same as straight ones as per effects on the child. What affects children is whether or not their parents are in a loving relationship. http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids

    Also, if concern about the child was paramount then why are single parents allowed to raise kids? Statistics show that kids of single parents do less well off, on average, than those of married couples. Should we not force the mother and father into marriage for the sake of the children?!


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    #14
    hot2def
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭hot2def


    CaptainSkidmark wrote: »
    i Dont have a opinion on it thats the thing......
    CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

    Dont get me wrong for the couple of course it would be a great thing.. but it would surely have a deep affect on the child's up bringing such as confusion or being bullied at school.

    that right there is an opinion.
    Sir Baralot wrote: »
    Once again, defensive people. You'd swear the OP was all for forcing you to wear a pink triangle or something.
    Calm it down!

    .


    I'm not being defensive, i don't think the OP is trying to oppress me. I just question the motives behind threads like these, because its pretty obvious that most people in here will support homosexual adoption, and take issue with the OP's opinion that it would cause "confusion" in the child (for which there is no scientific evidence as far as it know...)
    The OP even makes the point that he found he discussion unsatifactory in a forum where everyone was straight - surely you'll have a similar issue here?

    If you were really bent on an even discussion, with viewpoints more evenly spread across a selection of irish people, you'd have this discussion in debate or humanites.


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    #15
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Thats an easy one, of course it should be allowed!

    The fact both parents are of a similiar gender is not relevent.


    If you need me to explain why I will do so in dept but I really dont see why anyone with an ounce of cop-on would even ask a question like that. The answer is obvious.


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    #16
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't think the issue here is with the sexuality of the parents. Anybody who would object to two caring parents from bringing up a child, purely because of their sexuality is very narrow-minded.

    I think the real issue today with gay adoption is the reaction from society towards it. How will the child be treated in school? Will they be bullied? And the answers are - Yes, they will most likely be bullied and it may have a big impact on them. They are very valid questions to ask - because afterall, the most important person is the child.

    So what do you do about it? Education in my opinion. Children need to be taught from a young age that homosexuality is just a normal part of some people's lives and that there is nothing out of the ordinary about it. This is a hard thing to accomplish, given the control of the catholic church over education. I could only imagine the grief I would have received when I went to school if I had been adopted by a gay couple. So this type of narrow-minded behaviour needs to be hit on the head from the get go.

    I believe in the right of civil equality for everybody. There is an onus on your Government to ensure that civil equality is a normal part of everyday life for everybody. While I'd hope opinion towards the gay community is better now - like all things, I'm sure it has room for improvement.

    So if you were to ask me would I personally have a problem with it based on principle? Absolutely not. But would society have a problem with it? I would hazard a guess that it would. There is obviously work to be done. Ireland has seen alot of civil inequality in it's history, and this is another chapter with which I hope ends on a high note.

    I know someone who had a hard time in school due to her parents being divorced. Actually mainly from adults, from whom the children picked up their queues. She at the time couldn't understand why she was being treated differently to the other children. My own mother and her siblings had a hard time in secondary school back in the 50's, simply because they where working class and everyone from the local politicians to the nuns that ran the school down to the students who attended felt that education was only for the sons and daughters of wealthy farmers or doctors. That type of thing wouldn't happen today. These attitudes are gone and we didn't get rid of them by pandering to them, but rather by challenging them. By saying fuk your idea of how society is meant to work and yes it's going to be hard on the first ones but with any luck their children wont have to face the same hardships they did. Children need to learn how to deal with the realities of life, you do them a disservice by overly shielding them from it.
    Fol20 wrote: »
    I think you nailed it.What comes first is how it affects the child and for this very reason i object to gay adoptions.Im all for equality and i am pro gay marriage as its 2 consenting adults who choose their path.Children on the otherhand didnt have a choice and are very impressionable .Having a gay couple raise them will affect them in the wrong way in my opinion.I know there are many broken families but when it comes down to it,the most balanced upbringing for a child is both a mother and father.

    Better a broken Jaw then a broken home. The traditional family unit is anything but balanced. The father earns the bred while the mother raises the children. People talk about balance in parenting without so much of a whiff of a clue. If you were to encounter an actually balanced family unit it would be so alien to your preconceptions that you would immediately rail against it as abnormal. Children need strong positive male and female roll models, the evidence of that need is all around us today. Its one of that they not only screen the couple but also the immediate family when people seek to adopt. If a gay couple cannot provide adequate roll models, they'll simply not be allowed to adopt.


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    #17
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,978 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I think you nailed it.What comes first is how it affects the child and for this very reason i object to gay adoptions.Im all for equality and i am pro gay marriage as its 2 consenting adults who choose their path.Children on the otherhand didnt have a choice and are very impressionable .Having a gay couple raise them will affect them in the wrong way in my opinion.I know there are many broken families but when it comes down to it,the most balanced upbringing for a child is both a mother and father.

    You forget that there are already plenty of homosexual couples bringing up children, mainly female couples (due to easy access to a uterus and all that). In the current situation,the biological mother is the legal guardian of the child, while the other parent has no rights. This means that if anything happens to the biological mother, then the child is in legal limbo and will likely be removed from the home it grew up in. Hardly the best thing for the child.


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    #18
    P!nk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭P!nk


    I think gay couples should be allowed to adopt! I also dont understand why people make such a big deal about kids growing up with gay parents...
    Any straight couple can have children-even if they might not be capable of looking after them properly, but gay parents have alot of trouble to go to get their child, so you know that child will be well looked after and also given alot of love! Personally I think thats all children need- a stable, loving environment! regardless of if 2 women, 2 men, single parents or a straight couple are raising them!


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    #19
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    meditraitor wrote: »
    The fact both parents are of a similiar gender is not relevent.

    That's a bit naive. The fact that both parents are the same gender is definitely relevant, for starters, at least one of them won't be the biological parent, and socially gay adoption is not accepted.

    However I believe a child who is loved and brought up right will be happy, regardless of whether he has two dads or whatever.


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    #20
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    That's a bit naive. The fact that both parents are the same gender is definitely relevant, for starters, at least one of them won't be the biological parent, and socially gay adoption is not accepted.

    However I believe a child who is loved and brought up right will be happy, regardless of whether he has two dads or whatever.

    Why is it naive? millions of children are being brought up by single parents of both sexes. It is naive to think biology is high on the list of pre requisites for bringing up a child, it just happens to be a fact of many. Ask any adopted person if they think biology was a major influence in the love and attention given to them.


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    #21
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    meditraitor wrote: »
    Why is it naive? millions of children are being brought up by single parents of both sexes. It is naive to think biology is high on the list of pre requisites for bringing up a child, it just happens to be a fact of many. Ask any adopted person if they think biology was a major influence in the love and attention given to them.

    It's naive to think the sexuality of the parents is irrelevant. There are so many reasons, but here's a simple one: many people disagree with gay adoption.

    That makes the issue of whether the parents are gay very much relevant.

    You can't just dismiss the issues because you don't think they're relevant. The reality is the world does not think like you.


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    #22
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    It's naive to think the sexuality of the parents is irrelevant. There are so many reasons, but here's a simple one: many people disagree with gay adoption.

    That makes the issue of whether the parents are gay very much relevant.

    Many people disagreed with and continue to degree with mixed race families, it's pretty irrelevant to the things that truly matter. Do you honestly think we need you to come onto the forum and explain to us that people have an irrational problem with gay adoption.


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    #23
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I am pointing out it is wrong to say the parents sexuality is irrelevant. That's simply not true.

    You might personally think it is irrelevant (and to an extent I would agree) but the majority of the world disagrees, hence why the parents sexuality is very much relevant.

    You have to look beyond your own personal feelings on the subject.

    For the record I have no (or at least, very little) problem with gay adoption.


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    #24
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I am pointing out it is wrong to say the parents sexuality is irrelevant. That's simply not true.

    You might personally think it is irrelevant (and to an extent I would agree) but the majority of the world disagrees, hence why the parents sexuality is very much relevant.

    You have to look beyond your own personal feelings on the subject.

    Not really. "Society" isn't going to be raising the child. The Child will have to live in the world and to a certain extent that has to be taken into account but at the end of the day all that really matters is how the people directly involved see things. The majority of the world isn't like you, and doesn't think the way you live your life is normal. That true no matter who you are.


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    #25
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    You can't just dismiss the opinion of the masses. The world doesn't work that way. Like it or not, until you can convince the world that two gay parents can do just as good a job as a mother and father, you're going to find it hard to convince most people that the sexuality of the parents is irrelevant.

    Anyway, we've both made our points, let's not get bogged down.


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    #26
    ding-dong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭ding-dong


    This topic caught my eye and I couldn't help but contribute to this meandering thread. Seriously folks, there have been countless studies done on this subject. I'm quite shocked at the lack of a decent response on here - aren't most of you gay/bi?! Hell, how are you going to get your rights if you don't know your stuff?

    CANADIAN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT:

    "Parenting by same-sex families is just as good -- if not slightly advantageous -- for children when compared to heterosexual families, a Justice Department study has concluded."

    "The paper references about 100 studies on parenting and children's development."

    WEBMD:

    "The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way," she tells WebMD. "In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures."

    AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION:

    "Fears about children of lesbians and gay men being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no support from the results of existing research.
    According to a report by the American Psychological Association, not one study out of nearly 50 found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect to those children raised by heterosexual parents."

    And I could keep going if I had the time. SO. MANY. STUDIES. Here you go, a nice happy gay family: http://www.youtube.com/depfox

    OK?

    This is not an issue. Are all you people making points against gay adoption ignorant straight people or ignorant self-doubting gay/bi folk? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude - just pointing out that it shouldn't take two pages on lesbian/gay/bisexual forum for someone to put an end to this debate...and hell, I'm a stranger here! Hi by the way :)


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    #27
    mobius42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    ding-dong, the videos you linked to are so sweet.:) They seem like such a happy family, a hell of a lot happier than many families i know with straight parents. Those videos are a powerful argument against those who think that families with gay parents are harmful to children.


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    #28
    mollzer
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭mollzer


    I think the discussion on gay adoption should be asked of people who have grown up in a home with gay parent/s, who have been reared in a gay home as opposed to a straight home.

    There is loads of arguments (or should I say opinions) as to why gay women/men should not adopt. But where is the facts of why gay people should NOT adopt??? like is it just because of people ignorance and personal opinion? because bullying is NOT a reasonable argument and neither is the effects of finding out your adopted because that even with having straight parents can cause problems for the child when they become adults (finding their biological parents etc).

    In my opinion the one good reason as another poster wrote re one biological parent being gay, in a gay relationship and something happens the biological parent. What happens to the child?? the other significant adult has no legal rights of guardianship over the child.

    Can the child be taken away by social services? or maybe by an estranged family who happen to be biologically related but have had no input into the childs life?


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    #29
    ding-dong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭ding-dong


    mollzer wrote: »
    In my opinion the one good reason as another poster wrote re one biological parent being gay, in a gay relationship and something happens the biological parent. What happens to the child?? the other significant adult has no legal rights of guardianship over the child.

    Can the child be taken away by social services? or maybe by an estranged family who happen to be biologically related but have had no input into the childs life?

    ...and this is why same-sex marriage needs to be legal.

    Mobius42, absolutely. Looking those videos makes you realize how ridiculous the debate is. A good parent is a good parent. I wish my parents were half as good as those guys.


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    #30
    P!nk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭P!nk


    I totally agree. Heaven forbid if anything happens to me, my child will have to leave his home and his life and school to go live with a man he hardly knows all because my partner cannot legally be his guardian! In my opinion it makes no sense, the first option would be traumatic to the child and it needs to be taken into consideration that there are gay parents out there and someone needs to protect the children in case anything happens!!!!


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    #31
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    P!nk wrote: »
    I totally agree. Heaven forbid if anything happens to me, my child will have to leave his home and his life and school to go live with a man he hardly knows all because my partner cannot legally be his guardian! In my opinion it makes no sense, the first option would be traumatic to the child and it needs to be taken into consideration that there are gay parents out there and someone needs to protect the children in case anything happens!!!!

    Hang on you can in this country legally nominate any person to be a child's guardian and gender has nothing to do with it. You just get the form fill it out and sign it in front of a justice of the peace/commissar for oaths and send it off to be processed. A guardian does not have to be a blood relative.

    And any child who has a parent who is in anyway different had to deal with it,
    good parents make sure that they can.


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