"If I'm not out there training, someone else is."

tunguska

ecoli wrote: »

tRR looking like he has it on the radar and who knows if Tunguska gets fit we could get a few heading over there for it.

Not so sure man, Rotterdamn never has appealed to me. If Im doing a spring marathon it'll be london. But best of luck anyway. A few things I've learned from marathon training just in case youre interested:

- Get yourself to the startline in one piece, thats all that matters really. Better injury free and under trained than overcooked and carrying niggles. The overcooked part is especially true for marathon training. Its hard to back off when you're not feeling the best, your natural inclination to to tough it out but I've learned the hard way that theres really no sense in flogging a dead horse.

- Look after your nutrition. Get plenty of red meat into you. Heavy sub 2:30 training isnt the place for vegetarianism. The high mileage just sucks the iron from your body like you wouldnt believe. I'd take an iron supplement aswell just to be sure.

- Do some long runs on empty. I know this is very controversial but speaking from experience it works horror show. I got injured before last years marathon(see first point above) but my training partner paul nailed 2:29 and he did all his training on empty. He atually ran the entire race without even taking so much as a sip of water. Im not saying to go that far but I'd ditch the gels and energy drinks from day one, get your body used to burning fat for fuel.

- Race sparingly.......but dont do ****all races either. Pick your races carefully in the bulid up to the marathon. Dont let insecurity drive you. What I mean by that is dont do races just to prove you've still got it. I know a Guy who did a 26 mile run a few days before a marathon because he was worried that he was losing all his fitness during a taper(no it wasnt me).

- Put the blinkers on. Pay no attention to what anybody else is doing. Just because somebody else posted on their log that they did this session or that it has nothing to do with you and what you're setting out to do.

- Keep your cards close to your chest, dont tell anybody what time youre going for.......oh wait.

RacoonQueen

Oh, a marathon, awwww he's all grown up. I thought only old people ran marathons? :P

TRR

tunguska wrote: »

Not so sure man, Rotterdamn never has appealed to me. If Im doing a spring marathon it'll be london. But best of luck anyway. A few things I've learned from marathon training just in case youre interested:

- Get yourself to the startline in one piece, thats all that matters really. Better injury free and under trained than overcooked and carrying niggles. The overcooked part is especially true for marathon training. Its hard to back off when you're not feeling the best, your natural inclination to to tough it out but I've learned the hard way that theres really no sense in flogging a dead horse.

- Look after your nutrition. Get plenty of red meat into you. Heavy sub 2:30 training isnt the place for vegetarianism. The high mileage just sucks the iron from your body like you wouldnt believe. I'd take an iron supplement aswell just to be sure.

- Do some long runs on empty. I know this is very controversial but speaking from experience it works horror show. I got injured before last years marathon(see first point above) but my training partner paul nailed 2:29 and he did all his training on empty. He atually ran the entire race without even taking so much as a sip of water. Im not saying to go that far but I'd ditch the gels and energy drinks from day one, get your body used to burning fat for fuel.

- Race sparingly.......but dont do ****all races either. Pick your races carefully in the bulid up to the marathon. Dont let insecurity drive you. What I mean by that is dont do races just to prove you've still got it. I know a Guy who did a 26 mile run a few days before a marathon because he was worried that he was losing all his fitness during a taper(no it wasnt me).

- Put the blinkers on. Pay no attention to what anybody else is doing. Just because somebody else posted on their log that they did this session or that it has nothing to do with you and what you're setting out to do.

- Keep your cards close to your chest, dont tell anybody what time youre going for.......oh wait.

right, who has hacked tunguska's account own up

Krusty_Clown

TRR wrote: »

right, who has hacked tunguska's account own up

+1. Some very non-controversial pearls of wisdom there!

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

+1. Some very non-controversial pearls of wisdom there!

I shouldn't post the PM so;

"22 miles @ HMP up around Glencree is a solid session to make you tough as nails

Go out with the leaders, losing is only a state of mind. I 61 first half leaves you with a solid 29 minute cushion to work with in case you need it"

Just kidding. Taking it on board. Some great advice there though mind you I tend to be one who puts myself on the chopping block regarding making the times public to keep me honest.

This has been a long time on the cards. The plan was always to wait until 24 or 25 to run my first (though there were times that I nearly got sucked in due to race reports etc)

I have been been ironing out the approach over the last few years and I think I have a recipe for success though with this race being unchartered waters for me I could be naive so will take advice on board and aim to stay sensible and methodical with my approach

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Monday|Session|11 miles| mile pace|

Session:
2.5 mile warm up
Drills + strides
24*200m w/ 200 jog rec (70 sec rec average)
2.5 mile cooldown

Splits:
34, 38, 35, 34, 34, 34, 34, 35
34, 34, 34, 34, 33, 34, 33, 34
33, 33, 32, 33, 33, 32, 33, 31

Ended up having a big group for this. There was a wide range of abilities for this one so we had people falling off the back and taking longer recoveries etc so as the session progressed the group began to stagger. There were two lads who were sticking with me. These lads are not usually used to the shorter recoveries of this kind of session so fair play to them digging in. We got to about 10-12 and we started catchin a few people but they hopped in the next rep with us so there was always a group of 3-4 on each rep at least.
At around 13 it was just me and another lad who had managed to keep it going. Around 15 one of the younger runners hopped back in with us and stayed with us for the rest of the session. I think the thought of how many we had left when we got down to single figures was a bit of a mental boost as the paces started picking up a bit.
Come the last one and you could tell the lads were going to race this one. Half of me wanted to go all out but the other half said keep it relatively consistent. In the end I trailed off the back as the lads hit something like a 27 or 28, but for me it was still the fastest rep of the night.

Happy with the session bar the one wayward split at the start (this was just a lapse in concentration). Was great to have a large group for this one and got positive news that many of the group will be training with me once a week most weeks from now on in an attempt to build a bit of strength for them (They are more middle distance athletes so my speed stuff is closer to their endurance)

Mileage left: 3979.29 miles till Rotterdam

shels4ever

TRR wrote: »

Abuse? I call it constructive criticism!



How many of them went sub 2.30 though

They all went close, none of them may have made it but not a bad group of results at all in the condition ,

banner_phoenix

Sub 2:30, yowsa you are setting some target there. Best of luck with it and I shall be following your progress.

Had to laugh at RQ's ould man post - 24/25 sure is old man territory

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Wednesday AM|Easy Run|4.5 miles|7.42 mile pace| 34.37
Wednesday PM|Easy Run|6.25 miles| 7.24 mile pace| 46.18

First time in a long while doubling. First run was just a handy one to flush out the legs after the session yesterday

In the evening then I had a few treatments and flexibility sessions down. By the time I got finished with people I was starving so I had to go home and make food. This was followed by letting it settling and with every passing moment the thoughts of a run were getting tougher and tougher to the point where I said to myself that I wasn't gonna go out but some little voice popped into my head and I was out the door before I knew it.

After this the run was fine the thoughts of it were worse than the actual run even though the first two miles were into the wind. After this though turned with it on my back and it becomes comical that I could have stopped and let the wind carry me to near Half marathon pace

Legs were not used to two runs a day though and they were screaming by the end but this should pass once I get a few of them under my belt

Mileage left: 3968.54 miles till Rotterdam

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Thursday|Session|10 miles| mile pace|

Session
3 miles easy,
4 miles tempo,
2 miles easy,
4x150m w/ 250m rec (2 min)

Splits
Tempo: 23.33 (5.58, 5.57, 5.56, 5.42) average pace: 5.53
150s 21.1, 22.0, 21.1, 21.0

This tempo was a horrible one. Started off handy enough thinking the wind was on my back yet no matter how hard I went time wouldn't drop below 5.50s. Half way through first mile and I turned into the wind full on and finally got a sense of exactly which way it was blowing. Was happy enough with the split now. Next two miles I was steadily working hard, the wind and ice cold rain were making a tough time of this session but I dug in. Thankfully I had the wind on my back for majority of the last mile and dear sweet jesus did it make a difference.

Then proceeded back to the track for a bit of turn over work, just to make sure that I don't let hard work I had put in early season on speed go to waste. Times are to be taken with a bit of salt as I had the wind on my back for these.

Followed this up with 4 massage treatments and an hour of astro. My body is going to make me pay for it tomorrow, I can already tell:D


Mileage left: 3958.54 miles till Rotterdam

RunningKing

Wow, this Is going to be a great journey, can feel it already!
Best of luck with part 1.

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Friday|Easy Run|6.33 miles| 7.14 mile pace| 43.24

Just a handy one to loosen out the legs after last night

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Saturday|OFF| miles| mile pace|

Last three days of massages and work caught up on me and came home from work and hit straight to bed. Plan was to have a power nap but this led to a badly needed full fledge sleep

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Sunday|Steady Run *| 13 miles| 7.27 mile pace| 1.36.51

Over the last few weeks I have been weening myself out of my orthotics to the point that all my easy runs are now sans plasique. Effectively the more I learn on injury treatment the more I realise I should not have been in them in the first place.
Took off fine here for the first mile and then hit in to the steady miles as plan called for steady medium long run (pace roughly 6.30-6.40). Proceeded then to adjust the pace and was cruising very handy. Mile 2 was 6.29 and then followed up with a 6.24 however though I felt handy the legs were screaming almost instantly. I knew this was at the absence of the orthotics as it was coming from the peroneal muscles effectively telling me that they were still fairly shortened and weak. Tried to push on but it was too long to sustain it and in the end on the 3rd steady mile I slowed up. Pain subsided and I was able to continue at the easier pace. Tried upping it again but this was short lived.
Lesson Learned while I can get away with easy runs its gonna be a while before I can get out of them for any sort of quality work.

Mileage left: 3939.21 miles till Rotterdam

jfh

hi Ecoli, is there any particular reason that your getting rid of the orthotics?

was speaking with a physio who was advising me not to get too dependent on mine either,(just bought some) she was speaking of this cushion device that sits between toes to make them work more. she reckons it's all about strenghtening up the toes, you have any thoughts on this from the physio course

belcarra

jfh wrote: »

hi Ecoli, is there any particular reason that your getting rid of the orthotics?

was speaking with a physio who was advising me not to get too dependent on mine either,(just bought some) she was speaking of this cushion device that sits between toes to make them work more. she reckons it's all about strenghtening up the toes, you have any thoughts on this from the physio course

I'd be curious also. Just reading 'Born to Run' at the moment and while I retain a healthy amount of cynicism about the author's style I find a lot of the technical detail to be quite interesting regarding offering artificial support to feet leading to muscles becoming lazy.
It'd be good to hear your thoughts on the matter.

ecoli

jfh wrote: »

hi Ecoli, is there any particular reason that your getting rid of the orthotics?

was speaking with a physio who was advising me not to get too dependent on mine either,(just bought some) she was speaking of this cushion device that sits between toes to make them work more. she reckons it's all about strenghtening up the toes, you have any thoughts on this from the physio course

About 5 years ago I was put in them when I went to a physio with an injury. I had been out for a while but looking back now it was an easy fix that was just dragged out. The orthotics were a short term fixed and started getting similar niggles about 6-12 months on but I figured they weren't doing me any harm.

I am trying to get out of them because I don't really need them. I don't have flat feet. The problem with them is they can put certain muscles in a chronically shortened state so I am want to strengthen up these muscles again.

Recent bought the Kinvaras and I found I was very heavy footed in my landing with the Orthotics but since getting out of them they feel alot more comfortable, coupled with the fact that the orthotics have outlived there lifespan (think it was recommended to change after 3 years ).

I am not a Born to Run fan outside of the general entertainment of the book so I am not going barefoot or even minimalist but I do agree with having the body generally strong

jfh

ecoli wrote: »

About 5 years ago I was put in them when I went to a physio with an injury. I had been out for a while but looking back now it was an easy fix that was just dragged out. The orthotics were a short term fixed and started getting similar niggles about 6-12 months on but I figured they weren't doing me any harm.

I am trying to get out of them because I don't really need them. I don't have flat feet. The problem with them is they can put certain muscles in a chronically shortened state so I am want to strengthen up these muscles again.

Recent bought the Kinvaras and I found I was very heavy footed in my landing with the Orthotics but since getting out of them they feel alot more comfortable, coupled with the fact that the orthotics have outlived there lifespan (think it was recommended to change after 3 years ).

I am not a Born to Run fan outside of the general entertainment of the book so I am not going barefoot or even minimalist but I do agree with having the body generally strong

sorry i'm not a born to run, barefoot running fan myself, this cushion devise, you use in your runners, i'm not sure if it's a gimmick but it's meant to make your toes work a bit.
i also run very heavy footed for my weight, found the orthotics have lifted me up on my toes a bit & feel faster.
the kinvara has a small heel to toe drop? you'd have to work more?

ecoli

jfh wrote: »

sorry i'm not a born to run, barefoot running fan myself, this cushion devise, you use in your runners, i'm not sure if it's a gimmick but it's meant to make your toes work a bit.
i also run very heavy footed for my weight, found the orthotics have lifted me up on my toes a bit & feel faster.
the kinvara has a small heel to toe drop? you'd have to work more?

Apologies I was replying to both messages (should have multi quoted)

The way I have proceeded in the past was find a cheap shoe that fit the orthotics comfortably and away I went happy as Larry. I wore flats for sessions and races with the orthotics and no major issues. The only time I didnt was in my spikes where the distances were short enough that never really felt it.

In terms of my stride I am very much light footed but it was just in the orthotics I was coming down on the heels fairly hard and sounding like a horse clopping along

Since I moved out of them I have felt alot more comfortable on my easy runs once the initial legs soreness subsided

ecoli

Week 2 Sessions
7*1000m w/ 2.30 rec
8 mile long tempo
18 mile LSR

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Monday|Easy Run|6 miles| 7.22 mile pace| 44.06

Bit stuck for time. Was just happy to get out

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Tuesday|Session *| 9 miles| mile pace|

Session:
2 mile warm up
5x1k w/2.30 recovery
3 mile cooldown

Splits: 3.18, 3.18, 3.18, 3.20, 3.20, 1.24

Down to the track for this one to meet drquirky. Plan was a little optimistic at 7 but with such great weather I felt should be doable. First few effort wise were not bad at all and I felt once the legs loosened out properly I should even be able to drop the times. Only problem was the legs didn't loosen out and felt tight in the peroneals, tib anterior and calves. This was undoubtedly residual tightness from the weekend so lesson learned I am not going to rock the boat with the orthotics and stick to the if its not broke don't fix it mentality


Mileage left: 3924.21 miles till Rotterdam

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Wednesday|Easy Run|8 miles| 7.06 mile pace| 56.57

Long day between work and three massages booked in meant I was only getting back to the house around 9 yet despite the last while tiredness (laziness) creeping in tonight I was out the door before I knew what hit me. The first two or three mile were quite handy (up around the 7.40-7.50 range) but after that the legs loosened out and I was cruising without much effort. One of the more enjoyable easy runs recently


Mileage left: 3916.21 miles till Rotterdam

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Thursday|Tempo Run|10 miles| 6.26 mile pace| 1.04.27

Session: 1 mile warm up, 8 mile tempo, 1 mile cooldown

Splits: 8 miles in 49.23 (6.10 average pace)

6.18, 6.14, 6.10, 6.08, 6.17, 6.04, 6.02, 6.06

Not a moment to spare today a but thankfully managed to tick everything off the list including a very satisfying tempo run. The aim was 6.15 so I was happy to be feeling this comfortable at quicker paces. The one glitch I had in mile five was down to a few climbs into the wind which affected the pace but altogether felt very good for this one. The weather probably helped as it was a scorcher


Mileage left: 3906.21 miles till Rotterdam

drquirky

ecoli wrote: »

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Thursday|Tempo Run|10 miles| 6.26 mile pace| 1.04.27

Session: 1 mile warm up, 8 mile tempo, 1 mile cooldown

Splits: 8 miles in 49.23 (6.10 average pace)

6.18, 6.14, 6.10, 6.08, 6.17, 6.04, 6.02, 6.06

Not a moment to spare today a but thankfully managed to tick everything off the list including a very satisfying tempo run. The aim was 6.15 so I was happy to be feeling this comfortable at quicker paces. The one glitch I had in mile five was down to a few climbs into the wind which affected the pace but altogether felt very good for this one. The weather probably helped as it was a scorcher


Mileage left: 3906.21 miles till Rotterdam

Thats a nice tempo run- the last three miles indicates strength for sure. It'll stand to you on some not to distant race day. Two very solid sessions this week.

ecoli

drquirky wrote: »

Thats a nice tempo run- the last three miles indicates strength for sure. It'll stand to you on some not to distant race day. Two very solid sessions this week.

Cheers. I am happy enough with this alright and it inspires alot of confidence. The last time I was at this stage of a similar training plan I had to break it up into two sets with short recovery and I wasn't able to to hit the same splits.

If I can keep tipping along the way I am, enjoy a few solid track races over the summer (including target PBs over 800/1500/3000/5000 hopefully) it should have me ideally set going into the autumn

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Friday|OFF| miles| mile pace|

Work was followed by a drive down to Galway for my course so ended up about 11 by the time I was able to run but sleep needs won out


Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Saturday|Easy Run|8.29 miles|7.06 mile pace|58.59

A handy run today given spent half the day doing/getting trigger point therapy done left me fairly wiped. Thankfully the run actually helped wake me up a bit after it

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Sunday|Easy|10 miles| 7.12 mile pace|1.11.48

Another day of TPT had me drained and tender as hell followed up by drive back to Dublin so kept this one shorter than originally planned however given I am racing on Wed this was probably a blessing in disguise


Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Monday|Session| 3.5 miles| mile pace|

Session
1 mile warm up,
drills,
150-200-300-200-150 all w/2.30 rec (jog)

Splits 21.8, 29.5, 45.3, 29.1, 22.4

Didnt think I was gonna get access to the track tonight as I had a full quota of people in for treatments after work but got lucky with a cancellation which meant I had a spare hour and by luck had the spikes and a bit of gear in the car so I managed to throw in a light session at race pace just as to get the legs ticking over for the race on Wednesday.

I am fairly nervous for this one to be honest as I haven't ran a proper 800m race in about 6-7 years. The one 800m race I did in college was 10 min after a sub par 3k which I was using to make the evening a solid session where I clocked a 2.13.

Hopefully the PB should come under some revision (2.09) but it may take me a few races to get me race sharp so hard one to call. Ideally I would like to go 2.05-2.06

Mileage left: 3884.92 miles till Rotterdam

Oregano_State

Looks like we're aiming for a similar enough time. Coming from completely different training backgrounds, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I anticipate being in a lot of pain afterwards!

ecoli

Oregano_State wrote: »

Looks like we're aiming for a similar enough time. Coming from completely different training backgrounds, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I anticipate being in a lot of pain afterwards!

Could respark the quality v quantity debate (mind you my mileage has not been huge)

Tell me about it that mini session was supposed to be fairly light and by the 300m I was starting to feel a bit of lactic build up, not a feeling I get too often with my moderate pace style sessions



That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger though right

Gavlor

Your mileage countdown is scary!

ecoli

Gavlor wrote: »

Your mileage countdown is scary!

Roughly worked out at 77 mpw or 11 miles per day or just shy of 0.5 miles per hour (hence the log name)

Its a bit scary to me at the moment to but that is because I am in the beginning of track season so mileage is naturally lower but come Sept and onwards the miles will creep up and should balance out (hopefully)

Gavlor

ecoli wrote: »

Roughly worked out at 77 mpw or 11 miles per day or just shy of 0.5 miles per hour (hence the log name)

Ahhhh, I thought you might be planning on hand standing your way through the 26.2!

ecoli

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Tuesday|Recovery run|4 miles|9.30 mile pace| 37.56

Very handy one with the house mate to flush out the legs for tomorrow night

Day|Training|Distance|Pace|Time
Wednesday|Recovery run|2 miles|9.04 mile pace| 18.08

Again a very handy one just to get the bloodflow going in the legs for the race tonight. Body feels good

Mileage left: 3878.92 miles till Rotterdam