"If I'm not out there training, someone else is."

ecoli

drquirky wrote: »

Sorry to hear it dude. I like the option of testing yourself at Bohermeen. I still think you'll run a pretty good marathon, even with the f'd up nose. Maybe see the positive here- from a training standpoint if you are getting less oxygen, imagine the stimulus you are reaping! Thinking of the training at altitude comparison here- I know its not exact but this could end up actually being a good thing (I'm actually being serious here).

Not sure how I can replicate the race low part of the altitude philosophy but sure you never know

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

Dont be giving him ideas!

He will have a brown paper bag over his head in his next marathon buildup

Was looking at this though I reckon it would probably kill me to try this at the moment :P

ecoli

career_move wrote: »

How are you getting less oxygen by breathing through your mouth? I think you're making way too big a deal out of this and it's affecting you mentally not physically

It's not a case of using one or the other my breathing is usually relaxed using both mouth and nose air passages so with the nose being restricted basically my body is working harder to get the same level of oxygen into the both and CO2 out so I am working harder at easier paces.

I do agree with you there is certainly a mental element to it alright and it is possibly something which is affecting me more than I give it credit for but mental is something I do not discount as the role the brain can play on the physical health of a person is fairly remarkable.

career_move

ecoli wrote: »

It's not a case of using one or the other my breathing is usually relaxed using both mouth and nose air passages so with the nose being restricted basically my body is working harder to get the same level of oxygen into the both and CO2 out so I am working harder at easier paces.

I do agree with you there is certainly a mental element to it alright and it is possibly something which is affecting me more than I give it credit for but mental is something I do not discount as the role the brain can play on the physical health of a person is fairly remarkable.

Sorry I don't mean to be unsympathetic but to me it's not a big deal. I know you're told to breathe in through your nose out through your mouth when your exercising and that's fine if you're doing yoga or something. But when you're running there's less resistance if you breathe through your mouth. When I broke my nose two years ago I was riding in a maiden hurdle and the horse in front of me fell at the second hurdle. My horse was brought down and two horses behind me fell on top of us. My helmet was smashed and my nose was pumping blood. The racecourse doctor gave me some nurofen, told me I'd broken my nose and that I'd be grand once I kept my head down in case I choked on the blood. I never thought about it again and it was only a few months ago I realised my left nasal passageway is completely blocked. My point is if you didn't know you had a broken nose you wouldn't be fussing about it and the truth is you've done some great sessions since it happened

ecoli

career_move wrote: »

Sorry I don't mean to be unsympathetic but to me it's not a big deal. I know you're told to breathe in through your nose out through your mouth when your exercising and that's fine if you're doing yoga or something. But when you're running there's less resistance if you breathe through your mouth. When I broke my nose two years ago I was riding in a maiden hurdle and the horse in front of me fell at the second hurdle. My horse was brought down and two horses behind me fell on top of us. My helmet was smashed and my nose was pumping blood. The racecourse doctor gave me some nurofen, told me I'd broken my nose and that I'd be grand once I kept my head down in case I choked on the blood. I never thought about it again and it was only a few months ago I realised my left nasal passageway is completely blocked. My point is if you didn't know you had a broken nose you wouldn't be fussing about it and the truth is you've done some great sessions since it happened

I do appreciate peoples opinions because to be honest I have been racking my brains as to how much of this is playing on my mind rather than being just physical so external perspective is appreciated. There have been times where I am telling myself that maybe its just a case of going through a natural crisis of confidence that is normal at this stage of marathon training (my first marathon cycle so don't have a comparable from athlete perspective rather than an objective coaching one)

In terms of overall performance since it has happened though there is definitely a decline in overall performance

- Raheny 27.45 (Felt even with the wind I was good for atleast another 20 seconds worst case going off shape)
- Sessions - 1 decent easy long run at easy effort, 1 failed long run, 1 MP run slower and shorter than planned, 1 HMP session (paces slower than I would expect).

All in all I wouldn't say the sessions haven't been stellar and general running has been a mixed bag. I am getting away with the easier running because easy running is based on effort so I am at a point where paces and effort don't have as close an association (i.e will run as slow as needed to keep effort the same) compared to the likes of Long tempo runs or faster where there is slightly more a correlation between paces and effort (i.e I would want 6 min miling to equate closer to MP than HMP at this stage of training)

In terms of the broken nose again was not noticeable, the deviated septum however was something that was bothering me from the start and at first I put it down to swelling. The fracture itself is insignificant and let the doc know that when the offer was there to reset however the septum is a seperate issue to the actual break and was something that was bothering me (people were probably sick of the whinging about this on the log over the last two weeks regarding the breathing issues)

Again I do appreciate all opinions and that is why I put up all my options so that I would get honest feedback telling me that I am a whimp or whatever and just got on with it if needed and just more objective point of views

TRR

career_move wrote: »

How are you getting less oxygen by breathing through your mouth? I think you're making way too big a deal out of this and it's affecting you mentally not physically

In fairness it is a bit of a big deal. I've sinus problems the last while and it is effecting some of my runs. We could always arrange to break your nose to see how much of an issue it is for you

Ps that was a joke. Don't need battery charges levelled at me.

ecoli

TRR wrote: »

In fairness it is a bit of a big deal. I've sinus problems the last while and it is effecting some of my runs. We could always arrange to break your nose to see how much of an issue it is for you

Ps that was a joke. Don't need battery charges levelled at me.

Too late

When I broke my nose two years ago I was riding in a maiden hurdle and the horse in front of me fell at the second hurdle. My horse was brought down and two horses behind me fell on top of us. My helmet was smashed and my nose was pumping blood. The racecourse doctor gave me some nurofen, told me I'd broken my nose and that I'd be grand once I kept my head down in case I choked on the blood. I never thought about it again and it was only a few months ago I realised my left nasal passageway is completely blocked.

I think this is where she is coming from as she has adapted to it though this was probably at the start of her running so as such has no comparable performances to see a decline in performance. Almost a case of ignorance being bliss. Guess I didn't know how easy I had it before

career_move

ecoli wrote: »

Tuesday 20 miles easy (7.14 min mile pace)
Overall probably the best I have felt on an easy long run to date

ecoli wrote: »

Sunday PM 1 mile easy, 8 mile tempo, 1 mile easy

Splits 8 miles in 48.42 (6.05 min pace)

6.10, 6.01, 5.59, 5.58, 6.07, 6.08, 6.06, 6.12

Finally a session I am happy with.

Delighted to be able to manage roughly the kinda splits that I had been hitting before this whole issue with the nose as I think it will lift what may have been a mental block that was on me all week and allow me to push on with training.

ecoli wrote: »

Monday PM 8 miles easy (7.07 min pace)

Finally seem to be coming back around to the old me.

ecoli wrote: »

Tuesday 10 miles easy (7.21 min mile pace)

This was a failed long run not because of the weather or in fact the legs feeling bad but I think I just mentally had myself beaten.

I think you need to read back over your log. Nearly ever run has some comment about your breathing/nose which means you're thinking about it way too much. You're obviously suffering from premature taper madness .... happens to the best of us Now HTFU and just run and stop worrying about your nose

Krusty_Clown

Hey Luke, sorry to hear the news. Won't comment on the nose, as have never been in that situation (and I'm a mouth-breather anyway!). Were I in your shoes though, I'd probably want to reach a decision a little sooner than that. Rotterdam is 8 weeks away, and you probably want to be committing (your head and your training) for at least the last 6 weeks. Too difficult to commit to another three weeks of hard marathon training, if you're not certain if you're going to be able to give it 100%. Would you consider doing a decent marathon pace session over the coming weeks (when the weather is favourable) and make a judgement call based on how your breathing is affected based on the marathon pace session?

ecoli

ecoli wrote: »

Tuesday 20 miles easy (7.14 min mile pace)
Overall probably the best I have felt on an easy long run to date

I can see what you mean here but again this was easy pace and with company which I rarely have on long runs so was gonna be easier for that reason alone so effort levels where kept easy, whole different matter in a marathon when I have to dig in

ecoli wrote: »

Sunday PM 1 mile easy, 8 mile tempo, 1 mile easy

Splits 8 miles in 48.42 (6.05 min pace)

6.10, 6.01, 5.59, 5.58, 6.07, 6.08, 6.06, 6.12

Finally a session I am happy with.

Delighted to be able to manage roughly the kinda splits that I had been hitting before this whole issue with the nose as I think it will lift what may have been a mental block that was on me all week and allow me to push on with training.

In terms of context this was about five weeks after last time I did a similar session

Splits: 10 miles = 61.01 (6.06 min mile pace)
6.16, 6.09, 6.10, 6.08, 6.09, 6.05, 6.01, 6.03, 6.03, 5.56

The splits themselves probably show that effort may have been a little higher for the more recent session than I probably cared to admit (I could be looking at it from a negative perspective to fit my argument however) but this would probably be indicative of a regression as the aim of the plan is slowly progress to MP naturally so I am probably fitter overall than I was then yet I an still working harder to maintain the pace

ecoli wrote: »

Monday PM 8 miles easy (7.07 min pace)

Finally seem to be coming back around to the old me.

Again this is easy effort so I can blag it a bit but for every day I felt good there was 2-3 I felt muck

ecoli wrote: »

Tuesday 10 miles easy (7.21 min mile pace)

This was a failed long run not because of the weather or in fact the legs feeling bad but I think I just mentally had myself beaten.

career_move wrote: »

I think you need to read back over your log. Nearly ever run has some comment about your breathing/nose which means you're thinking about it way too much. You're obviously suffering from premature taper madness .... happens to the best of us Now HTFU and just run and stop worrying about your nose

I agree there is a mental element but you need to be mentally prepared as much as physically and that is part of the issue also and I know that myself. The sessions act as physical and mental prep to inspire confidence in bodies ability to hit the targets and to be honest part of me is wonder whether a sub 2.42 pace is achievable which is not a good mindset to be in

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hey Luke, sorry to hear the news. Won't comment on the nose, as have never been in that situation (and I'm a mouth-breather anyway!). Were I in your shoes though, I'd probably want to reach a decision a little sooner than that. Rotterdam is 8 weeks away, and you probably want to be committing (your head and your training) for at least the last 6 weeks. Too difficult to commit to another three weeks of hard marathon training, if you're not certain if you're going to be able to give it 100%. Would you consider doing a decent marathon pace session over the coming weeks (when the weather is favourable) and make a judgement call based on how your breathing is affected based on the marathon pace session?

I think its a good point I had kinda half thought about just keep plugging away at the marathon training between now and then and seeing how race effort felt in terms of making the final decision however I think might be no harm to make a small adjustment in the next week or so to see how a MP session went and making a call from there

RayCun

career_move wrote: »

Now HTFU and just run and stop worrying about your nose

I think you'd better listen - it'll be the shotgun next time

ecoli

Wednesday 6 miles easy (7.37 min mile pace)

Cold, Wet, Windy. What more is there to say :P

Beef

ecoli wrote: »

Wednesday 6 miles easy (7.37 min mile pace)

Cold, Wet, Windy. What more is there to say :P

Something about your nose maybe? :pac:

ecoli

Thursday AM 5 miles easy (7.24 min mile pace)
Thursday PM 7 miles easy (7.31 min mile pace)

Nothing too drastic, busy day of clients with the races at the weekend so just ticked over with the few miles

Friday AM 90 min GYM work
Friday PM 6 miles easy (7.10 min mile pace)

Had intended getting out for another run in the evening but I forgot how flexible the Dublin Championship time tables are with some of our athletes not getting going till nearly 10 PM so was late when I got home and left the run

thirstywork2

Fancy a long run tomorrow morning?

ecoli

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Fancy a long run tomorrow morning?

Sorry only seeing this now afraid was out in santry for the morning

ecoli

Time for an update. Took a break from logging but not from training over the last 10 days just to get my head back in the game. Finally coming round and starting to feel relaxed and good about my running again this week

Saturday OFF
Sunday OFF

Dublin Juvenille championships and work meant I was flat out and didn't have the motivation for late night running

Monday AM 4 miles easy (6.48 min mile pace)

Started off handy on this one but legs were fresh and got caught up using a bike as a wind shield for a mile so opened the legs up nicely

Monday PM 7.5 mile progression (6.27 min pace)

Started off easy but ticked along and pace naturally started creeping up. My lack of sessions made me decide to just go with this and happy to see the last 2.5 miles progressed to decent paces - 5.44, 5.40, 5.33 (0.5 mile) was happy with this

Tuesday 4 miles easy (7.31 min pace)

Wednesday AM 90 min gym work
Wednesday PM 4.5 miles easy (7.19 min pace)

Thursday OFF
Friday OFF

Two crazy days in work. I was lazy in the mornings and figured I would get out in the evenings after work but late shifts in work meant that they never happened

Saturday AM Park Run: 17.49

This was supposed to be a confidence booster however not finishing work till after one the night previous and nearly sleeping out the race meant was less than ideal. Bumped into drquirky and Cleanman before the race and quick chat and we were off. Came off the first turn on the shoulders of the leader and no one seemed to want to take it on so I pushed on to the front. Had no watch so was relying on effort but heard someone at 1k mark shout 3.24 so meant the pace was relatively honest.
Drquirky was on my shoulder but at this point pushed on and got a gap on me and from here I dunno whether it was physical or mental but I shut down and was just plodding along waiting for someone to pass me. At the 3k I could heard footsteps coming up on me and initial thought was it was one of the old college training group coming to chick me but thankfully I saw a parkrun tourist brushing by (had the 50+ parkrun t shirt) tried to go with him but not really happening. Came around the final field and saw the girl from college catching me. Effort went up as the same though was circling my head "don't get chicked, don't get chicked". Thankfully held her off and crossed the line. It was only after that I saw the results and the fact that this was amongst my top 3 slowest 5ks ever (not sure where it ranks here from my first 2 5ks as a 14 and 15 year old)

Saturday Afternoon 90 min gym

Home shower, food and down to the gym. I was gonna get some good from today so put in a solid effort here.

Saturday PM 4 miles easy (7.23 min pace)

Post Ireland match and a treatment I headed out for a slow one as the legs were heavy

Sunday 5 miles easy (7.34 min pace)

Worst DOMS I have had in forever. Kept it nice and handy after work

ecoli

Monday 13.5 miles easy (7.13 min pace)

Slightly longer one tonight and started off very handy here but legs really opened up and generally happy in my running. Thought about doing longer but race week I don't wanna overdo it especially with last two weeks not being stellar

Tuesday 6 miles easy (7.18 min pace)

Another handy one and feeling relatively good again. Pace felt handy and the nose has improved the last few days where I am tipping along very handy. The pressure off about the marathon I think has played a major role as I look to push on again (solidifying the mental aspect probably being the problem as some suggested)

Wednesday 2.5 miles easy, 8x1k w/1 min rec, 2.5 easy

Splits 3.35, 3.34, 3.33, 3.28, 3.33, 3.34, 3.34, 3.34

Back on the track for the first time in a month. Aim of this session was to feel controlled and I feel I managed that. Good confidence booster and bar one slip a very consistent session. Has me thinking about the plan for the next 8 weeks and I am going back to basics with controlled sessions just to restore confidence

Thursday AM 6 miles easy (7.15 min pace)

Despite the wind perfect weather and really enjoyable. Effort felt really handy even into the wind.

ecoli

Thursday PM 5 miles easy (7.09 min pace)

Just a handy post work run nothing to major

Friday AM 4 miles easy (7.16 min pace)

A short one before work. Was under orders to make an appearance at the family home at some stage day to mark me reaching a quarter of a century

"25 TODAY SO I AM, YA BIG HAM YA"

pconn062

Happy Birthday Luke!

kit3

Happy birthday (sh1t - well old enough to have been your mother :eek:)

KielyUnusual

So wise for one so young.....Happy Birthday Luke.

TRR

KielyUnusual wrote: »

So wise for one so young.....Happy Birthday Luke.

He's hoping to get his first snog and drink his first pint this weekend! He's all grown up now. Getting old ecoli, the auld joints will be at you soon

ecoli

TRR wrote: »

He's hoping to get his first snog and drink his first pint this weekend! He's all grown up now. Getting old ecoli, the auld joints will be at you soon

Sure I can always take a lend of your zimmer frame if needed

Gavlor

ecoli wrote: »

Sure I can always take a lend of your zimmer frame if needed

Is blockic your father???

ecoli

Gavlor wrote: »

Is blockic your father???

Now your understanding why Grandpa had to rename his account to AuldManKing

career_move

Happy birthday

ecoli

Overall a fairly poor month having said that its better than most of the time that I go through a bad patch. Back on track this month though with the nose actually improved a good bit (partial breathing through nostril which surprised me) and I feel I can train reasonably well so I will be working on transitioning back to 10k work over next 6-8 weeks while keeping the strength work up

Stats|Jan|Feb
Days Ran| 28/31|20/28
Miles ran| 336 (10.84 per day)|161.5 (5.77 per day)
Sessions ran|7|3
Long runs (+18 miles)| 3|0
Ancillary workouts| 7|5
Races Ran|1|1

Dory Dory

Happy birthday weekend!!!!