Why do people who aren't speeding to begin with...

Honey-ec

...automatically slam on the brakes the second they see a squad car? On the M7 this morning and the traffic was cruising at just under 100kmh. Came upon a Traffic Corps car in one of the lay-bys and lo and behold, everyone automatically drops the anchor, even though they're doing 20kmh below the limit. Cue a massive brakelight-backlog as everyone behind them has to jam on.

Seriously, why do people do this??? If they panic so noticeably at the very sight of a Garda car, I'd hate to see how they'd react when faced with an actual emergency.

Rowley Birkin QC

The vast majority of people are idiots; this answer applies to almost every question regarding human behaviour.

Wishbone Ash

Honey-ec wrote: »

On the M7 this morning and the traffic was cruising at just under 100kmh. Came upon a Traffic Corps car in one of the lay-bys and lo and behold, everyone automatically drops the anchor, even though they're doing 20kmh below the limit

100kph would be 20kph over the limit for many vehicles. Perhaps one of these braked first.

TheInquisitor

Thats why guards don't check peoples speed when its raining, its more dangerous with them actually on the road. I brake when i see a squad car, although normally because i am speeding !Its funny though states in america are getting rid of speed cameras because it turns out they don't lessen accidents and here in ireland there's talk about getting them in. Do we really need to learn the lesson for ourselves when its been proven they do nothing to stop accidents. Only 7% of accidents are caused by speeding and almost all those not on main motorways etc. Yet that is where guards always check for speeding? Bit of a joke perhaps?

smash

I've been stuck in a line of traffic doing 90-100 on a 120 stretch of a 2 lane motorway because nobody would overtake a squad car that was cruising along below the speed limit. I don't get it!

BrianD3

They are idiots who don't know what speed they're doing and don't know what the limit is. When they see a garda car their instinctive reaction is to slam on. There isn't a whole lot of higher brain activity going on there.

voxpop

steve06 wrote: »

I've been stuck in a line of traffic doing 90-100 on a 120 stretch of a 2 lane motorway because nobody would overtake a squad car that was cruising along below the speed limit. I don't get it!

LOL - yeah its hilarious. I zoomed up the overtaking lane on the M1, wondering why there was a huge line of traffic travelling at 100kph. Turns out they were all afraid to overtake a patrol car.

Anan1

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Its funny though states in america are getting rid of speed cameras because it turns out they don't lessen accidents and here in ireland there's talk about getting them in. Do we really need to learn the lesson for ourselves when its been proven they do nothing to stop accidents?

Source?:)

E39MSport

Because its a natural reaction? There are probably some super human people out there who process all of the information sub-second and then elect to remain at their current speed and expect others to have the same traits. But perhaps they should also factor in the possibility that others might be normal and suffer from shock/fear and other fight/flight reactions.
I also react and tend to check my speed and even slow down despite being on or below the limit.

Honey-ec

E39MSport wrote: »

I also react and tend to check my speed and even slow down despite being on or below the limit.

I react too, by checking my speed and easing off the accelerator if needs be. It's the massive overreaction of people who are clearly nowhere near the limit to begin with that I can't understand.

Anan1

Rather than slowing down, I try to put a car between myself and the beam.;)

joey54

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Only 7% of accidents are caused by speeding and almost all those not on main motorways etc. Yet that is where guards always check for speeding? Bit of a joke perhaps?

Revenue collecting, and yes you're right, it is a joke.

McSpud

BrianD3 wrote: »

They are idiots who don't know what speed they're doing and don't know what the limit is. When they see a garda car their instinctive reaction is to slam on.

+1.

cjt156

E39MSport wrote: »

I also react and tend to check my speed and even slow down despite being on or below the limit.

If you are in full control and aware of your surroundings and your speed there should be no need to "slam on" as the OP mentioned. Checking your speed is one thing; why would you slow down if you aren't significantly over the limit?

beeno67

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Thats why guards don't check peoples speed when its raining, its more dangerous with them actually on the road. I brake when i see a squad car, although normally because i am speeding !Its funny though states in america are getting rid of speed cameras because it turns out they don't lessen accidents and here in ireland there's talk about getting them in. Do we really need to learn the lesson for ourselves when its been proven they do nothing to stop accidents. Only 7% of accidents are caused by speeding and almost all those not on main motorways etc. Yet that is where guards always check for speeding? Bit of a joke perhaps?

It is not the amount of accidents that is important but the number of serious injuries and deaths. Speed is responsible for deaths. If I am blind drunk driving down the road on the wrong side, and crash into you, your chances of survival are directly related to the speed you are doing irrespective of how "safe" a driver you feel you are.
More accidents occur in this counrty in supermarket car parks than anywhere else. Number of deaths in Supermarket car parks- zero, because everyone is going so slow.
SPEED KILLS. Wake up to the reality.

robbie99

beeno67 wrote: »

It is not the amount of accidents that is important but the number of serious injuries and deaths. Speed is responsible for deaths. If I am blind drunk driving down the road on the wrong side, and crash into you, your chances of survival are directly related to the speed you are doing irrespective of how "safe" a driver you feel you are.
More accidents occur in this counrty in supermarket car parks than anywhere else. Number of deaths in Supermarket car parks- zero, because everyone is going so slow.
SPEED KILLS. Wake up to the reality.

Right so it's alright to have accidents once you're going slow enough not to be seriously injured. Let's reduce motorway speedlimits to 30.

Voodoomelon

I know I wouldn't overtake a Garda car in most cases, as that's exactly what they're waiting for you to do. You think a Traffic Corps car will let a BMW overtake it even if its perfectly safe to do so, and let me get away with it? Some chance.

Dabko

bigkev49 wrote: »

The vast majority of people are idiots; this answer applies to almost every question regarding human behaviour.

I applaud thee Sir for your observation. I ve being saying this for years!

Mena

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know I wouldn't overtake a Garda car in most cases, as that's exactly what they're waiting for you to do. You think a Traffic Corps car will let a BMW overtake it even if its perfectly safe to do so, and let me get away with it? Some chance.

I don't think that's reflective of their attitude to be fair. I can't even count the amount of times I've had to overtake a patrol car when they were doing 20+Kph under the limit, and I drive a BMW. Never had so much as a second glance from them, hell, why would I?

Voodoomelon

Perhaps, I just wouldn't do it in my area.

I.S.T.

beeno67 wrote: »

It is not the amount of accidents that is important but the number of serious injuries and deaths. Speed is responsible for deaths. If I am blind drunk driving down the road on the wrong side, and crash into you, your chances of survival are directly related to the speed you are doing irrespective of how "safe" a driver you feel you are.
More accidents occur in this counrty in supermarket car parks than anywhere else. Number of deaths in Supermarket car parks- zero, because everyone is going so slow.
SPEED KILLS. Wake up to the reality.

:rolleyes:

beeno67

robbie99 wrote: »

Right so it's alright to have accidents once you're going slow enough not to be seriously injured. Let's reduce motorway speedlimits to 30.

If you want to reduce deaths dramatically then yes reduce the speed limit to 30. However as a society we accept road deaths as a price to pay for faster transport. We could avoid road deaths completely by banning cars completely but that is not going to happen. The reality is still that most people who died on Irish roads last year died as a direct consequence of speeding. They may have been driving dangerously and speeding, or drunk and speeding, but they were speeding or should I clarify at least one of cars involved was speeding.
I spoke to a road safety expert in UK a few years ago. He said the one thing he would do to improve road safety is remove all airbags from cars and replace it with a razor sharp blade inches from the drivers heart. People would drive a lot more carefully then.

mik_da_man

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know I wouldn't overtake a Garda car in most cases, as that's exactly what they're waiting for you to do. You think a Traffic Corps car will let a BMW overtake it even if its perfectly safe to do so, and let me get away with it? Some chance.

I really cannot understand attuides like this.
If they are going under the limit you have every right to pass them.
I often have and nothing has ever come of it.

thalia_13

beeno67 wrote: »

It is not the amount of accidents that is important but the number of serious injuries and deaths. Speed is responsible for deaths. If I am blind drunk driving down the road on the wrong side, and crash into you, your chances of survival are directly related to the speed you are doing irrespective of how "safe" a driver you feel you are.
More accidents occur in this counrty in supermarket car parks than anywhere else. Number of deaths in Supermarket car parks- zero, because everyone is going so slow.
SPEED KILLS. Wake up to the reality.

My sister was nearly killed by a manical wench in a car in a supermarket carpark a few years back. She was very lucky to only have a few serious breaks and not be killed....
I have yet to go to a underground or any carpark where I have not observed someone tearing around corners, screeching wheels and loud revs from dropping gear to tear off at high speed. And before anyone mentions boyracer, the most recent scene I witnessed of this was a family in a Zafira, all while the 2.4 kids were bouncing around the back seat unrestrained.. Speed kills when its in the same equation as stupid drivers.

If speed was the only cause for accidents there would be no F1 racing or rally cross etc due to large death tolls. If a person is competent and a careful driver then they could theoretically speed and be perfectly safe in doing so.

But back to the OP - the M4 is atrocious for that redlight backlog when people spot a squad car either driving alongside or when someone spots a Mondeo and thinks oh sh*t unmarked car and drops speed dramatically.... Have seen that happen a few times, a car spots the dark mondeo thinks its the gardai and drops speed to not be overtaking them, only for everyone else to finally pass it and see an old man in a peaky cap, or a woman with a nice cardigan, and it not be gardai at all!!! Its just seems to be unobservant and unskilled drivers who have to jam on constantly....

beeno67

thalia_13 wrote: »

My sister was nearly killed by a manical wench in a car in a supermarket carpark a few years back. She was very lucky to only have a few serious breaks and not be killed....
I have yet to go to a underground or any carpark where I have not observed someone tearing around corners, screeching wheels and loud revs from dropping gear to tear off at high speed. And before anyone mentions boyracer, the most recent scene I witnessed of this was a family in a Zafira, all while the 2.4 kids were bouncing around the back seat unrestrained.. Speed kills when its in the same equation as stupid drivers.

I am not for one second saying people drive safely in car parks. They drive stupidly and dangerously but because they are going slow (even the racers are doing less than 80kph) they rarely kill anyone.

thalia_13 wrote: »

If a person is competent and a careful driver then they could theoretically speed and be perfectly safe in doing so.

Untrue. If everyone was competent and a careful driver then they could theoretically speed and be perfectly safe in doing so. You have to allow for the other idiots on the road.

Redderneck

People just seem to switch off when they enter carparks, as though they relax now that they're off the main roads. I've seen the same when people enter housing estates.

Sure, low speeds mean any tips are likely to involve little material damage, but a low speed impact is still enough to take a small pedestrian kids head off and carparks/housing estates and driveways are where it's likely to happen.

Call me sexist, but IMHO, sexes are equally bad when entering housing estates & entering urban areas, but Lordie, Lordie, women in carparks...

Eoin

I'm tempted to move this thread to this forum

Zube

beeno67 wrote: »

The reality is still that most people who died on Irish roads last year died as a direct consequence of speeding.

You just made that up.

I spoke to a road safety expert in UK a few years ago. He said the one thing he would do to improve road safety is remove all airbags from cars and replace it with a razor sharp blade inches from the drivers heart. People would drive a lot more carefully then.

That, too.

Busta Hyman

beeno67 wrote: »

SPEED KILLS. Wake up to the reality.

so does cocaine / smack and fags but your not picking on them are you.....

Big Nasty

I really wish Ford would stop selling Mondeos in Dark Blue / Red! :rolleyes:

cyclopath2001

mik_da_man wrote: »

If they are going under the limit you have every right to pass them.

'Every'? That's very absolute of you. No exceptions? And classifying overtaking as a 'right' is a gross misunderstanding of the term.

Would it not depend on the reason why the squad car was travelling below the limit? For example, if the Garda driver had decided that in the circumstances, it would be unsafe to travel at the speed limit? Anyone passing in such circumstances would be setting themselves up for a dangerous driving charge.

So, maybe people, on seeing the Garda car, hesitate and ask themselves before overtaking 'does the Garda have a particular reason to be driving below the speed limit?'

*Kol*

It's the complete opposite in Italy. I have seen cars regularly overtake police cars who are at the speed limit and accelerate away with no problems at all!! In fact I have been overtaken several times by police cars in Italy whilst observing the speed limit. They have no tolerance for slowness there at all!!

*Kol*

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

So, maybe people, on seeing the Garda car, hesitate and ask themselves before overtaking 'does the Garda have a particular reason to be driving below the speed limit?'

They probably are dawdling around so they can get back to the station in time to knock off and go home!!

beeno67

Zube wrote: »

You just made that up.

From the National Safety Council

"According to the National Roads Authority, the main contributing factor to the large number of road fatalities in this country in 2004 (96%) was the behaviour of the road user."

"The main behaviour causing death and injury remain the same and include

• Excessive and inappropriate speed "

Zube

Editing so selective as to be misleading. Here's the full quote:

The main behaviour causing death and injury remain the same and include

· Excessive and inappropriate speed
· Driving while intoxicated, whether through drugs or alcohol
· Failure to wear seatbelts and failure of parents to restrain their children properly
· Failure to recognise vulnerable road users
· As pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists we fail to recognise our vulnerability and fail to ensure we can be seen by others when using the roads
· Driving while tired could also be a contributory factor

From the 2007 Collision Fact Book:
1.11 Contributory Actions to Road Collisions
In single vehicle fatal collisions, exceeding safe speed limit was cited as the main
contributory action in 47 per cent of collisions. However, in two vehicle only fatal
collisions - see Figure 9 (page 10) - the most frequently cited contributory action
is ‘went to the wrong side of the road’ (41 per cent) followed in turn by ‘other
action’ (24 per cent), ‘exceeded safe speed limit’ (19 per cent), ‘drove through
stop / yield’ (8 per cent) and ‘improper overtaking’ (8 per cent).

beeno67

Zube wrote: »

Editing so selective as to be misleading. Here's the full quote:

From the 2007 Collision Fact Book:
1.11 Contributory Actions to Road Collisions
In single vehicle fatal collisions, exceeding safe speed limit was cited as the main
contributory action in 47 per cent of collisions. However, in two vehicle only fatal
collisions - see Figure 9 (page 10) - the most frequently cited contributory action
is ‘went to the wrong side of the road’ (41 per cent) followed in turn by ‘other
action’ (24 per cent), ‘exceeded safe speed limit’ (19 per cent), ‘drove through
stop / yield’ (8 per cent) and ‘improper overtaking’ (8 per cent).

As per my previous posts you are confusing cause of road crash and cause of road death.
2 cars crash at 10 miles an hour no one dies. They crash at 100 miles an hour everyone dies irrespective of who was in the wrong.

kwalshe

thalia_13 wrote: »

But back to the OP - the M4 is atrocious for that redlight backlog when people spot a squad car either driving alongside or when someone spots a Mondeo and thinks oh sh*t unmarked car and drops speed dramatically.... Have seen that happen a few times, a car spots the dark mondeo thinks its the gardai and drops speed to not be overtaking them, only for everyone else to finally pass it and see an old man in a peaky cap, or a woman with a nice cardigan, and it not be gardai at all!!! Its just seems to be unobservant and unskilled drivers who have to jam on constantly....

I drive a Mondeo Estate and it's a fleet car so I took all sticker , reg surrounds so it has not markings at all cause I hate that **** and at least 2 or 3 times a week I'm cruising along in Lane 1 and a speeding arsewipe flies up behind me on his own in the overtaking lane , slows down when he gets near me gets suspicious and then pulls in behind me a slows down. Such idiots, I love the look they give me when the realise I'm not the fuzz at all..

Zube

beeno67 wrote: »

2 cars crash at 10 miles an hour no one dies. They crash at 100 miles an hour everyone dies irrespective of who was in the wrong.

Yet Motorways, the fastest roads in the land, are also the safest.

beeno67

Zube wrote: »

Yet Motorways, the fastest roads in the land, are also the safest.

Again you are confusing cause of crash with cause of death. If you are saying car crashes on the motorway are less likely to result in death than on other roads then I find that hard to believe. Yes you are less likely to crash, but if you crash you are more likely to die, due to speed.

cpoh1

beeno67 wrote: »

Again you are confusing cause of crash with cause of death. If you are saying car crashes on the motorway are less likely to result in death than on other roads then I find that hard to believe. Yes you are less likely to crash, but if you crash you are more likely to die, due to speed.

Its the same thing, motorways as roads are the least likely place where road deaths occur, they are also the very place where the highest speed takes place.

If you are going to be pedantic cause of death usually occurs when a person makes impact with sharp metal objects or trauma to the head, not speed. Speed is the act of moving rapidly and never killed anyone.

beeno67

cpoh1 wrote: »

Its the same thing, motorways as roads are the least likely place where road deaths occur, they are also the very place where the highest speed takes place.

If you are going to be pedantic cause of death usually occurs when a person makes impact with sharp metal objects or trauma to the head, not speed. Speed is the act of moving rapidly and never killed anyone.

From the UK
http://www.brake.org.uk/index.php?p=488#_ftnref2

The faster we drive, the less time we have to react and the harder we hit. The Parliamentary Transport Committee estimates that an increase in the speed limit from 70mph to 80mph would result in a 10% rise in casualties on those roads.[1] Research shows that reducing the average speed on a road by just 1mph is likely to reduce the frequency of crashes by 5%.[2]
International examples show that raising motorway speed limits can increase casualties. In the USA, a report by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that when interstate limits were raised in a number of states from 65mph to 70mph, the death rates on those roads rose by 35%. In states that raised the limit from 65mph to 75mph, the death rates rose by 38%.[3]
Germany, which has autobahns famous for their lack of speed limits, has a motorway death rate that is 75% higher than in the UK.[4]

Although there are fewer crashes on motorways per mile travelled than on other roads, when crashes do occur, they are more likely to be fatal because of the high speeds involved. 2% of motorway crashes are fatal, compared to 1.4% of all crashes.[6] Motorway crashes are also more likely to result in a pile up and therefore multiple deaths and injuries. Congestion and tailbacks after one motorway crash may also result in further crashes.

cpoh1

beeno67 wrote: »

From the UK
http://www.brake.org.uk/index.php?p=488#_ftnref2

The faster we drive, the less time we have to react and the harder we hit. The Parliamentary Transport Committee estimates that an increase in the speed limit from 70mph to 80mph would result in a 10% rise in casualties on those roads.[1] Research shows that reducing the average speed on a road by just 1mph is likely to reduce the frequency of crashes by 5%.[2]
International examples show that raising motorway speed limits can increase casualties. In the USA, a report by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that when interstate limits were raised in a number of states from 65mph to 70mph, the death rates on those roads rose by 35%. In states that raised the limit from 65mph to 75mph, the death rates rose by 38%.[3]
Germany, which has autobahns famous for their lack of speed limits, has a motorway death rate that is 75% higher than in the UK.[4]

Although there are fewer crashes on motorways per mile travelled than on other roads, when crashes do occur, they are more likely to be fatal because of the high speeds involved. 2% of motorway crashes are fatal, compared to 1.4% of all crashes.[6] Motorway crashes are also more likely to result in a pile up and therefore multiple deaths and injuries. Congestion and tailbacks after one motorway crash may also result in further crashes.

What has any of that guff got to do with the fact that motorways in Ireland are statistically the safest roads to drive on with the least fatalities per km? Im putting you on my ignore list after this because the thought of people like you out there looking for pointless internet scraps that make no sense makes baby jesus cry.

You can google till your hearts content lad but it wont change the facts.

Motorways = High speed = Less fatalities than any other road type

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote: »

Motorways = High speed = Less fatalities than any other road type

It's not quite that simple - motorways are designed without traffic lights, pedestrians & traffic crossing each others paths, etc. They're safer by design, and thus much safer than a normal road at pretty much any speed.

beeno67

cpoh1 wrote: »

What has any of that guff got to do with the fact that motorways in Ireland are statistically the safest roads to drive on with the least fatalities per km? Im putting you on my ignore list after this because the thought of people like you out there looking for pointless internet scraps that make no sense makes baby jesus cry.

You can google till your hearts content lad but it wont change the facts.

Motorways = High speed = Less fatalities than any other road type

Perhaps you should read what I wrote before complaining. I said with regard to motorways
"Yes you are less likely to crash, but if you crash you are more likely to die, due to speed." You disagreed with this.
I then quoted research saying in UK

"2% of motorway crashes are fatal, compared to 1.4% of all crashes."

So in other words in UK (and I see no reason why Ireland should be different) if you crash on a motorway then you are 50% more likely to die than if you die on other roads. The cause of this increase according to the report was the speed.

The other part of the research pointed to examples in USA and Germany where increase speed on Motorways lead to more deaths. Again backing up the point I made that you disagreed with.

So what is your problem?

cpoh1

Anan1 wrote: »

It's not quite that simple - motorways are designed without traffic lights, pedestrians & traffic crossing each others paths, etc. They're safer by design, and thus much safer than a normal road at pretty much any speed.

I agree 100%, im just making the point to the keyboard warrior above that speed especially on roads designed for it is not a major or even minor factor in road deaths.

Anyway back on topic. Ive never ever had a problem overtaking road traffic corps cars if they are driving under the speed limit, sometimes travelling to an indicated 110-115kmph on my speedometer in order to make the overtaking manouvre. Never had a problem doing so.

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote: »

I agree 100%, im just making the point to the keyboard warrior above that speed especially on roads designed for it is not a major or even minor factor in road deaths.

As I see it, the bottom line is as long as you can stop within the distance you can see to be clear then you should be OK. Driving past a primary school, 20km/h can be too fast, on a clear motorway 200km/h can be quite safe. The sad fact is, though, that most drivers have poor observation skills and drive far too close to other cars/obstacles anyway - adding more speed into that mix is asking for trouble, IMO.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Anyway back on topic. Ive never ever had a problem overtaking road traffic corps cars if they are driving under the speed limit, sometimes travelling to an indicated 110-115kmph on my speedometer in order to make the overtaking manouvre. Never had a problem doing so.

Me neither, TBH.

cjt156

beeno67 wrote: »

I spoke to a road safety expert in UK a few years ago. He said the one thing he would do to improve road safety is remove all airbags from cars and replace it with a razor sharp blade inches from the drivers heart. People would drive a lot more carefully then.

Was that "road safety expert" a potty-mouthed, jocular, bearded, former Clydebank-shipyard welder by the name of Billy Connolly? 'cos I heard him deliver that line more than once.

beeno67

cjt156 wrote: »

Was that "road safety expert" a potty-mouthed, jocular, bearded, former Clydebank-shipyard welder by the name of Billy Connolly? 'cos I heard him deliver that line more than once.

It was at a meeting in Manchester about 10 years ago. The man in question worker for Greater MAnchester Police. Don't worry too much about it, I don't think he was serious. He was just pointing out how drivers think they are good , safe drivers when in reality they are not.

beeno67

cpoh1 wrote: »

I agree 100%, im just making the point to the keyboard warrior above that speed especially on roads designed for it is not a major or even minor factor in road deaths.

.

Great so I am saying that the more you speed the more you are likely to die in a crash. I back it up with evidence from 3 different countries. My point of view is backed up by just about every road safety organisation in the world yet you disagree, based on what? a feeling in your water or did your mate down the pub tell you or is it just that because you have never died in a crash I must be wrong.

Zube

beeno67 wrote: »

Great so I am saying that the more you speed the more you are likely to die in a crash.

You seem to be trying to say that the faster you go the more likely you are to die if you crash.

I don't suppose anyone will argue with that.

jmck87

There are many variables lads....I for one would rather a car travelling 60 kmph hit me than a 40 foot truck doing 30kmph!

Tis all relative....sure ask Einstein :pac: