Discussion to ensure Bertie Ahern never becomes President of the Republic of Ireland

IIMII

I'd vote vote for Enda if it shut him up for 14 years

old boy

sorry to spoil your party people, but have a bet on the crowley guy from cork, the m.e.p. the wheelchair guy, bookies always try to put a bum favourite up.

Dirk Gently

not a bad bet. He's open to running too (as in doesn't make any attempt to rule it out when asked). If given the nod by FF he would probably do very well. He seems to be very popular, despite his party affiliation.


/ logs onto betfair to have a goo at the odds.

mike65

Makes it sound like Britains Got Talent. The Wheelchair guy will always get the sympathy vote

Sir Oxman

If that animal runs for either Mayor of Dublin or President of Ireland, the decent people of this country must come out in their droves to ensure he doesn't get a sniff of either.

paddyland

I would like to see Bertie run for president. I would like to see the media tear him asunder publicly, dragging up the whole tribunal thing again, which I feel was let quietly slip away far too soon. This time we would have the added benefit of the REAL Bertie legacy, in the collapse of his house of cards economy, and the ruination of half the population.

I am terribly afraid of this man being allowed to slink quietly away into the wallpaper without due public excoriation of his behaviour and his legacy. A presidential run might facilitate this.

I would only hope that FG don't manage to screw that up as well by running a completely ineffectual candidate against him. No matter what opportunity you hand to that bumbling party, they are guaranteed to waste it.

MoominPapa

David Norris for the Aras (I'm sure he knows the way). If only for 7/14 years of no Sunday with Norris

road_high

gambiaman wrote: »

If that animal runs for either Mayor of Dublin or President of Ireland, the decent people of this country must come out in their droves to ensure he doesn't get a sniff of either.

Hear hear

GSF

By the time a presidential election comes around Cowen will be available to stand for FF hopefully!

Heinrich

GSF wrote: »

By the time a presidential election comes around Cowen will be available to stand for FF hopefully!

What a thought!:mad:

bernardo mac

Lovely.The final insult.Imagine that cunning corner boy representing us again.The wiseguy who can hardly make a complete, coherent statement[maybe it's an act] with his cronies,celebrity friends ,developers,traitorous bankers wining and dining at our expense in the park.Eoghan Harris will be there too.Sean Fitzpatrick could resume his role as adviser on monetary matters.FF have promoted the idea that Bertie brought us peace.Civil servants,of course are paid to make the tea and sandwiches.Bertie brought economic ruin and being the cute political animal [rat]deserted ship before s*** hit the fan.Eh luvly.

goldenbrown

might be for michael obrien the abuse survivor who was on questions and answers former FF councillor and lord mayor of watereford- to go forward as a presidential candidate and give voters an opportunity to use their vote to register our disdain with the child rape that has now joined the vikings and the normans in irish history

deadhead13

I had hoped that the Mahon Tribunal Report would have blown any slim chance Bertie had of become President completely out of the water by now. But it is being delayed by legal challenges. The next Presidential election isn't due until the end of 2011, so there is still plenty of time.

Hillel

IIMII wrote: »

I'd vote vote for Enda if it shut him up for 14 years

I'd vote for Enda to make way for Richard Bruton.

mike65

goldenbrown wrote: »

might be for michael obrien the abuse survivor who was on questions and answers former FF councillor and lord mayor of waterford- to go forward as a presidential candidate and give voters an opportunity to use their vote to register our disdain with the child rape that has now joined the vikings and the normans in irish history

Twas Clonmel I doubt that fella would want to end up a totem in the Aras regarding institutional abuse

Red_Marauder

mike65 wrote: »

Makes it sound like Britains Got Talent. The Wheelchair guy will always get the sympathy vote

I actually think he's a very talented politician. But wasn't it Bertie Ahern who said of him that "a man in a chair always gets a seat"!

ninty9er

solice wrote: »

Back in college for student elections there was always the option of "RON", Reopen Nominations. I think they should bring that in as a safeguard and it would always ensure that even if someone stands unopposed, they must still be elected by the people

Depends on the college. We don't have one because people take the piss in some places where there is one.

IIMII wrote: »

Whilst I wouldn't be keen on Gerry Adams as Taoiseach by any stretch, I'd say he might make a good President. The President doesn't have any real duties other than to be independent of the Oireachtas and the courts, and even then the President can only refer legislation to the Supreme court. I think he might be a good choice - Bertie would sign off everything without consideration, and take all incoming calls, whether appropriate or not. Adams whatever else anyone might say, would genuinely considered everything from a national rather than personal benefit perspective

Adams would be slighlty problematic considering the travel restrictions on his passport!

old boy wrote: »

sorry to spoil your party people, but have a bet on the crowley guy from cork, the m.e.p. the wheelchair guy, bookies always try to put a bum favourite up.

+1

In any case. The President is essentially the Irish Ambassador to everywhere. Bertie, for all that can be said about him, is very well received internationally and voting for someone else for the sake of it, whatever your views on his actions up to now, wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of Ireland.

Mr.Micro

ninty9er wrote: »

In any case. The President is essentially the Irish Ambassador to everywhere. Bertie, for all that can be said about him, is very well received internationally and voting for someone else for the sake of it, whatever your views on his actions up to now, wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of Ireland.

Unfortunately up to now Bertie only ever had his own and his cronies interests at heart, so the best interests of Ireland would be served by not electing Ahern. It would be better to leave the post vacant if an honest citizen could not be found to do the job. Why recycle old politicians, there are some things beyond repair.

Het-Field

ninty9er wrote: »

Depends on the college. We don't have one because people take the piss in some places where there is one.


Adams would be slighlty problematic considering the travel restrictions on his passport!


+1

In any case. The President is essentially the Irish Ambassador to everywhere. Bertie, for all that can be said about him, is very well received internationally and voting for someone else for the sake of it, whatever your views on his actions up to now, wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of Ireland.

If the role is simply ambassadorial, then why not abolish it ? Furthermore, if it is a representative role, then it should be for those who deserve it.

Bertie has dragged the name of FF, and politics (more importantly) through the mud. He has no entitlement to high office based on his former reception. If people vote for him, its a vindication of his chequered legacy.

deadhead13

ninty9er wrote: »

The President is essentially the Irish Ambassador to everywhere. Bertie, for all that can be said about him, is very well received internationally and voting for someone else for the sake of it, whatever your views on his actions up to now, wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of Ireland.

The removal of Bertie Ahern from public office would, in fact, be "in the best interest of Ireland".

paddyland

ninty9er wrote: »

In any case. The President is essentially the Irish Ambassador to everywhere. Bertie, for all that can be said about him, is very well received internationally and voting for someone else for the sake of it, whatever your views on his actions up to now, wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of Ireland.

I know you promote FF at every opportunity, and that's your prerogative.

But I really can't believe this statement. This is the man who has done more to destroy your beloved party than anyone else. Is this a wind-up?

If we are going to put a crook in our most prestigious position in the country, we might as well pull the blinds and close the country.

The best interests of Ireland? The best interests would be for Bertie to run for president, and have the media tear him asunder in the attempt. It's time he had his place in the history books.

As the benchmark of the lowest depths to which cronyism and corruption sunk in this country.

ninty9er

Whatever you or I think of him, he's a highly regarded statesman on the international circuit. There's no strings he could pull as President that could bring him personal gain.

Personally, I wouldn't choose him over Crowley for the nomination, but if he got it, he'd be better than Gerry Adams.

Het-Field

ninty9er wrote: »

Whatever you or I think of him, he's a highly regarded statesman on the international circuit. There's no strings he could pull as President that could bring him personal gain.

Personally, I wouldn't choose him over Crowley for the nomination, but if he got it, he'd be better than Gerry Adams.

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini would be more suitable for the Irish Presidency then Gerry Adams

The "high thoughts" of him on the international circuit have been ajusted since the failure of the Lisbon Treaty. Europe is not impervious to what was going on in the run up to the treaty, and it was Bertie's fault that FF could not get working on their campaign until the 11th hout. I know this, because I deal with European Politcs, and I have heard the attitudes of the other Member States towards our rejection.

paddyland

Gerry Adams or Bertie Ahern? Now there's a pip hard to swallow! I would really struggle with that one, I hold one in as low regard as the other. Do you know, I think I would slightly lean towards Adams! I really resent Ahern that much. He stood back and allowed this country to be plundered. Adams at least seems to have some vision of the country, however misguided. Ahern only ever had a vision of the FF pig trough.

As regards Europe, Bertie's snivelling behaviour in the tribunal, occurring just at the most inopportune moment, probably did more to wreck the Lisbon campaign than even Ganley. He has no friends in Europe.

Perhaps George W. Bush saw something in him, both men who understood a wink speaks a thousand words...

ninty9er

Het-Field wrote: »

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini would be more suitable for the Irish Presidency then Gerry Adams

The "high thoughts" of him on the international circuit have been ajusted since the failure of the Lisbon Treaty. Europe is not impervious to what was going on in the run up to the treaty, and it was Bertie's fault that FF could not get working on their campaign until the 11th hout. I know this, because I deal with European Politcs, and I have heard the attitudes of the other Member States towards our rejection.

There's a world outside Europe. And there's a political shif happening in Europe also. There are quite a few oppositions gaining in popularity that were anti Lisbon, particularly in the east and also our neighbours. External (Sarkozy) interference was also cited by many as a reason for saying nay. Yet that idiot still thinks he's well respected here and has offered to come "help". He'd be of more help on Pluto than in Dublin for a Lisbon campaign.

Het-Field

ninty9er wrote: »

There's a world outside Europe. And there's a political shif happening in Europe also. There are quite a few oppositions gaining in popularity that were anti Lisbon, particularly in the east and also our neighbours. External (Sarkozy) interference was also cited by many as a reason for saying nay. Yet that idiot still thinks he's well respected here and has offered to come "help". He'd be of more help on Pluto than in Dublin for a Lisbon campaign.

Im using Europe as an example.

TBH I dont really care how Bertie is considered abroad. He is inextricably linked to the current crisis, and has been arrogant in the face of trying the shirk responsibility.

However, im simply speaking from a post Lisbon Vote perspective. I have attended enough European and International political events to know the attitude with which our decision is held.

Bertie is not a suitable individual to be president. His fairy stories, his ego, and his wrong decision have dragged this country into the ****s. Was Jack Lynch ever considered capable for Presidency after the 1977 Govt ? Was Haughey, meglomaniac and all, ever deemed worthy of the office ? Bertie combines the worst attributes of both those leaders. His decisions bankrupted a nation, yet like Haughey his personal dealings are sketchy at best. He is not worthy of any further office.

ninty9er

I would rather a technocrat become President, but I'm playing devil's advocate on the Bertie front.

Every nation thinks the worst of its own politicians.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Every nation thinks the worst of its own politicians.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, ninty9er, but that's the type of thinking that has FF where it is today.....assuming that as the default position.

"It's not our fault; we're politicians....they're bound to think the worst of us".

The fact is that people "think the worst of [their] own politicians" because of their actions.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't mean to be disrespectful, ninty9er, but that's the type of thinking that has FF where it is today.....assuming that as the default position.

"It's not our fault; we're politicians....they're bound to think the worst of us".

The fact is that people "think the worst of [their] own politicians" because of their actions.

To a certain extent (Bertie, Haughey, Lawlor and Lowry being prime examples) their own actions cause it, however, unpopular decisions are the main one.

Citizens often think better of other nations' politicians as their actions have no bearing on the individual.

Het-Field

ninty9er wrote: »

To a certain extent (Bertie, Haughey, Lawlor and Lowry being prime examples) their own actions cause it, however, unpopular decisions are the main one.

Citizens often think better of other nations' politicians as their actions have no bearing on the individual.

Dont feed us that line about "unpopular decisions". Do you realise that proper corrective measures willl be far harsher then anything Cowen and his ilk have done before. What has been done up to now have been weak, and half cocked. Most measures are based on Middle Income taxation, and a further distruction of our competitive edge, in a ham fisted address to our problems. Wait until front line services get hit, wait until the public sector is culled in a fell swoop. Wait until bus routes are cut, minimum wage is ajusted, social welfare is cut. This will not be done out of spite, but of necessity. That will be unpopular. But at least it would be clear that FF will be willing to pay an electoral price to get the country working again. Ireland is virtually bankrupt. We have a huge public pay debt, the liabilities for NAMA, and Anglo Irish Bank. Just wait and see the December budget.

In the Locals and the Europeans, the people didnt punish FF on the back of "unpopular deciisions". Four years (particularly the last two) of sheer incompetenct, arrogance, and poor governance has led the Irish people to despair. Im quite a fan of FF. But im entitled to voice my concern at the vaccum which exists in this current crop. I was on the doorsteps. people are angry at the Government, and Cowen/Coughaln etc for more then just the pension levy. Our crisis has been exacerbated by the deference to the property sector. We say the mad tax cuts that Bertie and Biffo gave to this industry, while ignoring industries which could have copperfastened our future. People understand, know and recognise this. Dont try and second guess the public. Thats just more of the arrogance.