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Discussion to ensure Bertie Ahern never becomes President of the Republic of Ireland

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13

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    #62
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    I cant see Bertie running for it considering what happen to Ahern dynasty vote in the last elections. But then again, maybe he is not getting enough with his 120k job and 160k pension. He could still claim him pension while getting the president's salary couldnt he?

    We do not need a president. Presently it's just a soap box for a previoulsy well connected person (usually a left wing) to make very politically correct statements every time there's a tragedy somewhere, and get paid exceedingly for it. But as with everything in this country, the population can see the job is hugely overpaid, but the position will continue to be paid the same. *apathy*


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    #63
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Dont feed us that line about "unpopular decisions".

    +1,000
    Het-Field wrote: »
    In the Locals and the Europeans, the people didnt punish FF on the back of "unpopular deciisions". Four years (particularly the last two) of sheer incompetenct, arrogance, and poor governance has led the Irish people to despair.

    +1,000,000,000
    Het-Field wrote: »
    Im quite a fan of FF. But im entitled to voice my concern at the vaccum which exists in this current crop. I was on the doorsteps. people are angry at the Government, and Cowen/Coughaln etc for more then just the pension levy. Our crisis has been exacerbated by the deference to the property sector. We say the mad tax cuts that Bertie and Biffo gave to this industry, while ignoring industries which could have copperfastened our future. People understand, know and recognise this. Dont try and second guess the public. Thats just more of the arrogance.

    And FINALLY :) .......while I definitely don't have the same viewpoint as Het-Field re being a fan of FF (they scuttled that years ago), I have to say a MASSIVE thank you to him/her in restoring at least some of my faith....... finally, someone in FF who isn't towing the bull**** party line.

    Thanks, Het-Field......maybe there's hope and a light at the end of the tunnel yet......


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    #64
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ninty9er wrote: »
    however, unpopular decisions are the main one.

    Depends on what unpopular decisions you're referring to.....

    The ones that they claim they "have to make" now ? Then frankly - that's bull****.

    The ones where they chose to ignore Aer Lingus v Shannon, privatise eircom other key infrastructure without any service-level or investment guarantees, sign away Tara, give themselves pay rises and bonuses, appoint their buddies to top positions and unnecessary quangos, committees, investigations and other stalling mechanisms, overlook corruption, waste money on ego projects, avoid looking for value for money, screw public services in rural areas, allow satellite planning on supposed ring roads, tax transport without providing viable public alternatives or work-near-home options, etc....?

    For THOSE you might be right. Those were unpopular and wrong. And THOSE are the ones we - quite rightly - judged them on. :mad:


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    #65
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    +1,000



    +1,000,000,000



    And FINALLY :) .......while I definitely don't have the same viewpoint as Het-Field re being a fan of FF (they scuttled that years ago), I have to say a MASSIVE thank you to him/her in restoring at least some of my faith....... finally, someone in FF who isn't towing the bull**** party line.

    Thanks, Het-Field......maybe there's hope and a light at the end of the tunnel yet......

    Thanks for the endorsement Liam ! But im not FF (anymore), iv been active in the PDs for several years, and left FF in 2005. Im just somebody who would have a balanced view vis-a-vis FF, and have voted for them in the past. However, i recognise the situation, and I know it reflects the views of some of my FFer friends. However, that will be of little benefit until the higher ups take a similar viewpoint.


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    #66
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Whatever you or I think of him, he's a highly regarded statesman on the international circuit. There's no strings he could pull as President that could bring him personal gain.

    Personally, I wouldn't choose him over Crowley for the nomination, but if he got it, he'd be better than Gerry Adams.

    Maybe he couldn't pull strings but I resent having to pay his pension, never mind another fat state salary to a coniving little sh** whose legacy will be felt by our kids and probably on into the next generation.
    ninty9er wrote: »
    I would rather a technocrat become President, but I'm playing devil's advocate on the Bertie front.

    Every nation thinks the worst of its own politicians.

    FFS. Devils advocate, yeah right :rolleyes:
    ninty9er wrote: »
    To a certain extent (Bertie, Haughey, Lawlor and Lowry being prime examples) their own actions cause it, however, unpopular decisions are the main one.

    Citizens often think better of other nations' politicians as their actions have no bearing on the individual.

    Unpopular decisions my ar**.
    Obviously you are as deluded as the ones at the top of ff who believe they are all making the tough choices for our benefit.
    Self righteous sh**e and complete arrogance.
    Have they or you ever thought why these tough decisions have to made ?
    Probably not :rolleyes:

    The thing that links all the names above is unethical behaviour, corruption, feathering their own and their friends nests at the expense of the state i.e. the taxpayer.

    PS you forgot that other fine upstanding man of Irish politics Ray Burke.
    The above list looks kinda bare without his name.
    Hell you could call them "The inFamous Five".

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #67
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Excellent discussion! Delighted with the input to my original post.

    Some longstanding shots were waiting to be be fired, I can see!!


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    #68
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    I wish to start a serious DISCUSSION.
    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Excellent discussion! Delighted with the input to my original post.
    Considering your opening post, I would have expected a lot more input to the DISCUSSION from you.


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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I am genuinely staggered.

    The Presidency is a retirement home with almost no authority or power whatsoever. Any prestige people may mistakenly think it has comes from the work of Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese, the office in and of itself is a trumped up trade mission at this stage. Other than some technical duties the only real power of the office comes under Article 26 of the Constitution.

    Let Ahern have the office but make sure Fine Gael are in Government so he can't say or do anything without prior clearance from the Taoiseach and cabinet. That'd be a laugh.


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    #70
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    You are right Kayroo it'd be a laugh alright and an absolute national embarrassment.Besides being conniving and corrupt,he is incompetent and a dreadfully poor public speaker.Why not give the office to the suave smoothie and fellow Me Feiner, Sean Fitzpatrick? Sinn Feiner Gerry would be a far superior choice!:rolleyes:


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jmayo wrote: »
    Self righteous sh**e and complete arrogance.

    No, just governing the country.

    And many thought Ahern did it well. Judging by his own election results. And weren't that shocked by the 'politician might be lying, might have enriched himself' news. Course recent results for his family members suggests that he may also be getting blame as much as he got praise during the good times, but if he is entitled to run he is entitled to run and all that can be done is people need not vote for him if they want to express their rage. I find having Martin Ferris an elected representative from my county is sick and twisted, as he is a convicted terrorist, but not a whole lot I can do about it.


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    #72
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    I really doubt he'll run,has a right to do so,but the not so hush word is,he is an embarrassment to many FFs and to a fair number of Ireland's citizens


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    #73
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, just governing the country.

    And many thought Ahern did it well. Judging by his own election results. And weren't that shocked by the 'politician might be lying, might have enriched himself' news. Course recent results for his family members suggests that he may also be getting blame as much as he got praise during the good times, but if he is entitled to run he is entitled to run and all that can be done is people need not vote for him if they want to express their rage. I find having Martin Ferris an elected representative from my county is sick and twisted, as he is a convicted terrorist, but not a whole lot I can do about it.

    Governing the country into the ground would be more apt :rolleyes:
    Oh yes many thought he did it well, but remember some of us didn't :rolleyes:
    If you want I can drag up our posts on the matter ?

    Ah but sure you have jackie healy ray independent fianna fail and O'Donghue in your neck of the woods. :D

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jmayo wrote: »
    Oh yes many thought he did it well, but remember some of us didn't :rolleyes:

    No need for the rolleyes, I was aware that he didn't get every single vote and he wasn't for everyone.

    The point I was making is that there shouldn't be some bar to him running for President. This is a democracy, as long as he qualifies under the Constitution and legislation I'm not sure why the need for a thread like this. Just don't vote for him.


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    #75
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The point I was making is that there shouldn't be some bar to him running for President.

    Er, the fact that he's under investigation for corruption ?

    Yes, innocent until proven guilty, but would you hire somebody who was under investigation ?

    If and when the tribunals come to their conclusion, and he's found to be beyond reproach, then maybe......although I still find it unbelievable that anyone would obstruct the tribunal that they helped set up so much and need to change their story 5 times as to how they got the money.

    Also - as I've said before - since he's explicitly stated that he gave people jobs "because they were my friends" - he IS guilty of neoptism, which is a form of corruption, whatever about the cash.

    Anyone who considers voting for him as President and representative of our country should be exiled.


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    #76
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Presidency is a retirement home with almost no authority or power whatsoever.
    Well said. Yet it is a retirement hiome that is costing the country millions per year. There are ex presidents on pensions / packages which cost hundreds of thousands. We are the laughing stock of the world with our teeshock paid more than Obama or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc Our president only adds to the farce, and the national borrowing / debt of our tiny little country. Who cares who is President - quarter the pay + perks.


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Anyone who considers voting for him as President and representative of our country should be exiled.

    That wouled be a measured and proportional response. Can they be beaten first? It happens in all the good places like Haiti and North Korea?
    jimmmy wrote: »
    We are the laughing stock of the world

    I suspect the world has enough troubles of their own and really doesn't know or care how much the leader of Ireland gets paid tbh. I bet, for example, Gordon Brown's woes are dominating the English media for starters.


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    #78
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I suspect the world has enough troubles of their own and really doesn't know or care how much the leader of Ireland gets paid tbh.

    When overseas people look at the economy of Ireland I am sorry to say that yes, we are the laughing stock of the world with our teeshock paid more than Obama or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc Our president only adds to the farce, and the national borrowing / debt of our tiny little country. As a foreign industrialist said to me once, this country reminds him of a third world country, with the corruption , well off govt elite etc etc.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jimmmy wrote: »
    When overseas people look at the economy of Ireland I am sorry to say that yes, we are the laughing stock of the world

    I note you have narrowed it down from being the laughing stock of the world, to the laughing stock of that part of the world that examines the Irish economy. I still say the people of Iceland and the US and Britain and North Korea and Burkina Faso etc. etc. aren't laughing, but we'll agree to differ
    jimmmy wrote: »
    As a foreign industrialist said to me once, this country reminds him of a third world country, with the corruption , well off govt elite etc etc.

    As a foreign industrialist said to me once 'Ireland, what a great country, I love it'.

    Mixed reviews there, we'll take it that it's half way between those extremes.


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    #80
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I note you have narrowed it down from being the laughing stock of the world, to the laughing stock of that part of the world that examines the Irish economy.

    Rubbish. What I referred to was people from overseas who "look at the Irish economy. " Do you seriously not think we are the laughing stock of the world with our teeshock paid more than Obama or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc ????????? and our president only adding to the farce ?


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    #81
    cfcj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭cfcj


    Can I suggest Seamus Heaney, someone non political, intelligent and articulate who I believe will represent the country and has a great international standing. I know he is 70 but this is the type of individual I would prefer get the job.


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    #82
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    jimmmy, this isn't a public sector pay thread.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Do you seriously not think we are the laughing stock of the world with our teeshock paid more than Obama or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc ????????? and our president only adding to the farce ?

    To be honest I don't think they give two hoots about Ireland, the economy, the rates of pay etc. Or they care as much as I care about the take home pay of, say, the Danish leader.

    Incidentally, even though for some bizarre reason you insist on referring to 'teeshock' - presumably to add to the humour quotient apparently felt by the rest of the world/your industrialist friend - we are talking about our Taoiseach, are we?


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    #84
    Overature
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Overature


    lets form an uncontrollable riot and burn down government buildings


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Well said. Yet it is a retirement hiome that is costing the country millions per year. There are ex presidents on pensions / packages which cost hundreds of thousands. We are the laughing stock of the world with our teeshock paid more than Obama or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc Our president only adds to the farce, and the national borrowing / debt of our tiny little country. Who cares who is President - quarter the pay + perks.

    Just do what Dev did to the Lord Lieutenant (previous tenant of the Aras). Reduce the office to one of almost no importance and let a postman in Rathmines (I think, not totally sure where he was from) be the President and let him sign bills when needs be.


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    #86
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That wouled be a measured and proportional response. Can they be beaten first? It happens in all the good places like Haiti and North Korea?

    I was exaggerating, obviously.....

    But speaking of Haiti and North Korea, are those two of the countries where corruption is rife and where the leader of the country does whatever he damn-well likes regardless of the public's rights and needs, and where he's unaccountable and never brought to task for it, and doesn't believe that he should be ?

    Sounds about right, so.

    Geldof & Co had it spot on in the 70's; "Banana Republic" is as true today as it was back then. :rolleyes:


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    #87
    paddy 1916
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭paddy 1916


    he is no f**king crook. i fully support him. dont judge those, unless u have walked in there feet!!!!!


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    #88
    old boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭old boy


    paddy 1916 wrote: »
    he is no f**king crook. i fully support him. dont judge those, unless u have walked in there feet!!!!!

    naw i would not walk on his feet, just stamp my heel down firmly on his instep.


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    #89
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    paddy 1916 wrote: »
    he is no f**king crook. i fully support him. dont judge those, unless u have walked in there feet!!!!!

    What makes you so cocksure as to his innocence ?

    Do you support his decision to move from sustainable productivity to a property bubble to boost his own legacy ?


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    #90
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Geldof & Co had it spot on in the 70's; "Banana Republic" is as true today as it was back then. :rolleyes:

    Great song, I remember it well. Its probably truer now than ever ; back then our teeshock - unlike now - was probably not paid more than the US president or the president / prime minister of the France , Germany, UK, Japan etc.... our overpaid president only adds to the farce. Banana republic indeed with our govt paying themselves, and their retired colleagues, ( with borrowed money ) more than the leaders of even the G7 nations....and everything filtering down likewise


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Allow me to rephrase and clarify my earlier point.

    jimmmy, this isn't a public sector pay thread.

    I hope that's clearer.


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