Using the boards.ie Name

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Dav wrote: »

I didn't see that question before Des, but my initial reaction is that I'm not opposed to it, but will wanna run that by the boss to make sure. I'll get back to you about it after we've had a chance to talk about it in the office (before close of business tomorrow I hope),

In fairness, it was before you got the job, but thanks for answering now anyway

Dav wrote: »

I might even have a place for you to get the badges made thanks to the efforts of someone else in doing some leg work on a similar idea before.

I've just gotten a PM about that too, thanks.

Eru

Hello DeVore,
Im posting this purely because I foresee this becoming an issue so lets resolve it now.

Is Boards going to ban / infract users on Boards.ie for action that took place away from Boards and not connected to boards? I understand you saying that people have been banned for abuse, etc while on social outtings but those outtings were Boards related therefore inside the remit of Boards. Its a shame that such incidents take place to begin with and I completely understand why bans have to be dished out.

What happens if users from Boards interact in a negative manner outside of Boards, not as a result of Boards and that interaction has nothing to do with Boards in any way shape or form? Will a ban still be applicable if the actions are not considered nice? Im refering to the Helix scenario now.

Also, how do you intend to oversee moderaters who encounter users on other sites with the roles reversed? For arguements sake lets say myself and yourself. I ban you from my site for spamming (just for arguements sake I picked a bannable offence on both sites, Im not suggesting you would). I then PM you saying "Your spamming so your banned now f*ck off back to boards". Is that considered abusing a Boards moderator and user? Or only bannable here as I refered to Boards?

In the case that its not have you considered similar interactions? Many many people use many many sites and often overlap be it es, motors, soccer, poker or whatever. Whats not acceptable in one place may be acceptable in another.

In regards using the name, brand and Logo. Iimagine if someone started a thread here about something they have going in the real world or on another site. Again its easier to refer to fantasy football. I certainly agree that courtesy can play a part but should the premiership start dictating to Boards because users of a forum here made up a thread to discuss their league? Thats whats being suggested.

Hullabaloo,
Under the 1996 act unless a trademark is registered it can be used when and how anyone feels. Theres no restriction on trademarks, simple on registered trademarks.

WhiteWashMan

Eru wrote: »

Im posting this purely because I foresee this becoming an issue so lets resolve it now..

Im not Devore, but I am going to throw my tuppence worth in for ****s and giggles, and also becuase I think its a really good question.
I wont answer questions on boards.ie policy, becuase I dont make it, but I will give an opinion

Eru wrote: »

Is Boards going to ban / infract users on Boards.ie for action that took place away from Boards and not connected to boards? I understand you saying that people have been banned for abuse, etc while on social outtings but those outtings were Boards related therefore inside the remit of Boards. Its a shame that such incidents take place to begin with and I completely understand why bans have to be dished out.
.

Personally, I think if it is not related to boards.ie in any shape or form, then if I get banned from somewhere, I would not expect any reaction on this site.
What happens somewhere else is the business only of somewhere else and is localised to somewhere else.

Eru wrote: »

Also, how do you intend to oversee moderaters who encounter users on other sites with the roles reversed? For arguements sake lets say myself and yourself. I ban you from my site for spamming (just for arguements sake I picked a bannable offence on both sites, Im not suggesting you would). I then PM you saying "Your spamming so your banned now f*ck off back to boards". Is that considered abusing a Boards moderator and user? Or only bannable here as I refered to Boards?

Again, I wouldnt expect you to be banned from boards.

Eru wrote: »

What happens if users from Boards interact in a negative manner outside of Boards, not as a result of Boards and that interaction has nothing to do with Boards in any way shape or form? Will a ban still be applicable if the actions are not considered nice? Im refering to the Helix scenario now..

Here, I think we may disagree.
As far as I can see, there was a link with Boards.ie. It was after all the BOards.ie fantasy league football. a different site yes, but still the link was there.

And you have already said you understand if someone is banned for being stupid on a boards.ie night out. What is the difference if its a virtual or a real life assoction?

Eru wrote: »

In regards using the name, brand and Logo. Iimagine if someone started a thread here about something they have going in the real world or on another site. Again its easier to refer to fantasy football. I certainly agree that courtesy can play a part but should the premiership start dictating to Boards because users of a forum here made up a thread to discuss their league? Thats whats being suggested.

I guess the people of the premier league are the only ones that can answer that question

Would the premier league care is probably a better question?
If they did, then perhaps, yes, they might complain about it.

I think its a question of how involved people want to be about it.

again, its not really cut and dried.

I can certainly see both side to the argument, and I can see both sides rights and wrongs, but at the end of the day, its not down to what some people feel is right or wrong, its down to what the admins, or the chiefs of the premier league, feel is the right thing to do for their respective mediums.

Eru wrote: »

In the case that its not have you considered similar interactions? Many many people use many many sites and often overlap be it es, motors, soccer, poker or whatever. Whats not acceptable in one place may be acceptable in another.

.

and in accepting that, is it not then at the disgression again of the specific sites to what they feel is justified, and not what a few people feel is justified?
surely the needs of the many outway the needs of the few?

Anyway, many many sites are not using the boards.ie name.

After all, police brutality is a way of life in Brazil. does that mean that if I rename ballymun Brazil, then I can become a cop and shoot someone?
I suspect not.

Not that I want to use an outrageous analogy to maintain some sort of dicourse you understand, but you get the idea



NOw that I have not managed to answer any of your questions, let me give you a frank and honest opinion.

I dont think Helix should have been banned for what happened on another site.

HOwever, there is a rule that while it may not be specifically anywhere (yet), its one that many people know about anywhere I have been a mod.


Its called the 'dont be a dick' rule.


If I find someone who disrupts the free running of the site, and causing a lot of issues, then I reckon they are being a dick. And that, should be a banning offence.

Its a very subjective rule, and it is rather vague, but it still needs to be there.


there may have been grounds to ban someone for that.

/personal 2c worth

Rev Hellfire

Eru wrote: »

What happens if users from Boards interact in a negative manner outside of Boards, not as a result of Boards and that interaction has nothing to do with Boards in any way shape or form? Will a ban still be applicable if the actions are not considered nice? Im refering to the Helix scenario now.

It’s my understanding that because they used the boards.ie name they created an association with boards.ie, which in the admins view permitted them to apply the rules from this site to the forum/thread in question.

From what I seen of the posts from Devore on the topic he seems to suggest that without that implicit association no action would have been taken.

With that caveat in mind it seems a fair policy, otherwise boards.ie admins and moderators have no business attempting to force their will on other sites/forums.

Draupnir

Disappointing that Boards.ie would even have to clarify this situation, it beggars belief that people would even struggle with the concept that abusing people from one group is ok, as long as you do it in another scenario than the group itself.

It's like going to a strangers house party with a bunch of mates, getting locked, abusing one of your mates and being a sap and then expecting that same bunch of mates to have you over for cans and Red Dwarf the following Friday.

If people stop checking their brains at the login page then these situations are avoidable.

Draupnir

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

With that caveat in mind it seems a fair policy, otherwise boards.ie admins and moderators have no business attempting to force their will on other sites/forums.

I don't see anyone forcing their will on any other site, but the admins and moderators can sure as hell do what they want on this site on a case by case basis in my opinion. This whole situation just needs people to sit back and think about it in the real world.

For example, if a criminal in the real world turns up on Boards.ie posting away happily and does no wrong on the site, I still see no reason why the admins and moderators couldn't and wouldn't ban them if they saw fit based on the crimes committed in reality.

Do you want to chat about World of Warcraft with Ted Bundy's protege? I certainly don't.

Rev Hellfire

Draupnir wrote: »

I don't see anyone forcing their will on any other site, but the admins and moderators can sure as hell do what they want on this site on a case by case basis in my opinion.

If they intend to use the threat of repercussions on this site based on actions taken on another unaffiliated site then they are in my view attempting to police that site as well imho.

I'm not arguing that they don't have the right to do what they want here though, their site their rules and all that.

Its more the ethics of the doing so offsite is in question, which devore seems to also hint at in his posts.

Eru

Draupnir wrote: »

Disappointing that Boards.ie would even have to clarify this situation, it beggars belief that people would even struggle with the concept that abusing people from one group is ok, as long as you do it in another scenario than the group itself..

The problem is its for that forum to decide if the action was acceptable or not as per that sites rules. Afterall, if two people are members of two sites and one insults another on site A. Is it correct or right that site B should then take action even though what took place was within site A's rules?

Anyway, Im not concerned about who is nice and who is not nor is it my business to tall the admin how to run Boards. They can ultimately do what they like here. Im merely considering how it will play out when members clash on a site and then return to Boards or vice versa.

And its actually common enough. In Spain you will be arrested for encouraging and promoting ETA, not so in Ireland though and Spain cannot arrest or prosecute you for what was said in Ireland. In Germany I believe denying the holocaust is a crime, same thing applies. Feel free to deny it all you want without fear of being extradited.

Simple put, you entered a site knowing that sites rules and ultimately I dont feel you should be able to fall back on Boards when you dont like what gets said or done on said site.

WhiteWashMan

Eru wrote: »

The problem is its for that forum to decide if the action was acceptable or not as per that sites rules. Afterall, if two people are members of two sites and one insults another on site A. Is it correct or right that site B should then take action even though what took place was within site A's rules?

Anyway, Im not concerned about who is nice and who is not nor is it my business to tall the admin how to run Boards. They can ultimately do what they like here. Im merely considering how it will play out when members clash on a site and then return to Boards or vice versa.

And its actually common enough. In Spain you will be arrested for encouraging and promoting ETA, not so in Ireland though and Spain cannot arrest or prosecute you for what was said in Ireland. In Germany I believe denying the holocaust is a crime, same thing applies. Feel free to deny it all you want without fear of being extradited.

Simple put, you entered a site knowing that sites rules and ultimately I dont feel you should be able to fall back on Boards when you dont like what gets said or done on said site.

Forgive me if I am incorrect here, but I dont think anyone is arguing with you with your analogies.

However, if you are still talking about the Helix thing, your analogies are incorrect, because of the use of the boards.ie name.

You can deny the holocaust in Ireland and not worry about it.


Unless you are in the German embassy. In which case, you could be in trouble. Interesting.

Jazzy

i think this is one of those things that boards is going to just have to 'say' and not enforce (as that will be too difficult) in case something like that helix thing happens again.

look im going to slag an admin on the net right now on something which uses the boards name

there done.
nothing is going to happen to me. its just covering asses is all.
having said that the helix situation was ridiculous and i really hope hes allowed back into soccer as hes a good poster, and they are few and far between in there

Eru

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

However, if you are still talking about the Helix thing, your analogies are incorrect, because of the use of the boards.ie name.

Granted but the rules of the site in question allowed the behaviour, its a part of that sites interaction options. fantasy football involves managers slagging each other off. Its my opinion that you should steer clear unless your willing to accept the way that site in question works instead of insisting on that site adapting to your ways or to accomodate the rules of Boards. Imagine a site banning you for doing something perfectly within the guidelines on Boards? remembering that you may not use many other sites some users do and often bump into each other.

It remains that it was not a boards event or forum and therefore its that sites rules that apply, not boards.

Put another way using a real example, in the Premiership fantasy football my work place has a league. If I insult another manager on our leagues messageboards can my work sack me or take bullying proceedures against me? I think not because its not actually my work places league.

Or using the forum idea. If someone says on my site "That Whitewashman on Boards, what a fool" Should said person be banned from here because it mentions Boards? I think not. (Hopefully the mods will let that slide as it was only as an example) or again, if someone here says they dont like me that doesnt result in a ban from my site (It does however mean your not on the christmas card list).

Now just to clarify, I can understand a rule being brought in that using the boards name for a non boards approved forum, site, etc could be bannable. that I can see not only being fair but also working. My fear in regards taking action based on other sites is that vendettas will start. "You banned me from mysite.ie where your a mod so Im gonna ban you from Boards where Im the mod" and vice versa and the reason I am concerned about this is because mods from Boards do use my site but they are not mods whereas the mods on my site use boards but are not mods here. See where it could get messy?

Surely its easier to say "Use Boards.ie and promote that site here and you may be banned. Dont mention boards directly do what you like on other sites. Anyone venturing from Boards to the other site be advised that Boards doesnt want to know about your squabbles". Of course it would be different if Boards and site B entered into a joint agreement that either site may take action regardless of what site the action took place.

Hmmm, this post if getting long. Am I making sense?

Victor

I'm coming late to this topic.

I think the use of the boards.ie name on the other site was an important factor. That Helix took some simple abuse, starred out part of the comment and made it look different to what was actually said, means Helix created part of the abuse (for an extended time reading the threads, I assumed the comment was "fucking girl" or "fucking gook" - thats bigotry, not abuse). Helix (with others) took the boards.ie name to somewhere where bigotry seems to be acceptable.

While being abusive to each other on soccer may be the done thing, it isn't the socially acceptable thing.

Eru wrote: »

Of course it would be different if Boards and site B entered into a joint agreement that either site may take action regardless of what site the action took place.

I don't think we really want to get into extradition or jurisdiction agreements.

That said, I suspect your employer might not be happy with staff being bullied in a league with their name attached. Would you engage in the same abuse down in the company Sports and Social Club?

In a sentence, everyone is entitled to fair control over their own name.

WhiteWashMan

Eru wrote: »

Granted but the rules of the site in question allowed the behaviour, its a part of that sites interaction options. fantasy football involves managers slagging each other off. Its my opinion that you should steer clear unless your willing to accept the way that site in question works instead of insisting on that site adapting to your ways or to accomodate the rules of Boards. Imagine a site banning you for doing something perfectly within the guidelines on Boards? remembering that you may not use many other sites some users do and often bump into each other.

It remains that it was not a boards event or forum and therefore its that sites rules that apply, not boards.

Put another way using a real example, in the Premiership fantasy football my work place has a league. If I insult another manager on our leagues messageboards can my work sack me or take bullying proceedures against me? I think not because its not actually my work places league.

Or using the forum idea. If someone says on my site "That Whitewashman on Boards, what a fool" Should said person be banned from here because it mentions Boards? I think not. (Hopefully the mods will let that slide as it was only as an example) or again, if someone here says they dont like me that doesnt result in a ban from my site (It does however mean your not on the christmas card list).

Now just to clarify, I can understand a rule being brought in that using the boards name for a non boards approved forum, site, etc could be bannable. that I can see not only being fair but also working. My fear in regards taking action based on other sites is that vendettas will start. "You banned me from mysite.ie where your a mod so Im gonna ban you from Boards where Im the mod" and vice versa and the reason I am concerned about this is because mods from Boards do use my site but they are not mods whereas the mods on my site use boards but are not mods here. See where it could get messy?

Surely its easier to say "Use Boards.ie and promote that site here and you may be banned. Dont mention boards directly do what you like on other sites. Anyone venturing from Boards to the other site be advised that Boards doesnt want to know about your squabbles". Of course it would be different if Boards and site B entered into a joint agreement that either site may take action regardless of what site the action took place.

Hmmm, this post if getting long. Am I making sense?

No, BUt the scenario that you give above, which is similar to previous ones is the same, and I have already given you my opinion on it.

If you want you can give me a third scenario, and I will understand it, and I will probably give you the exact same answer

Its not a question of me 'just not getting it', but I have already agreed with you on the scenarios you give, its just you are talkinga bout a specific case, and the scenarios are not the same as the ones you are arguing.

As I said, with what happened, I would have banned him for being a dick, and no other reason. Not for posting about someone on boards.ie on a different site.


Whether you agree or disagree with me about the 'dont be a dick' rule is neither here nor there though, as I wasnt involved

With regards the overall issue of people under the Boards.ie banner outside of this site, then I think it is very fair that the site has the right to do whatever it feels is right at the time. The notion that 'fairness' or 'preecedence' or court law, or even rule technicality have nothing to do with it.
If this site decides that someone doesnt deserve the right to post on this site, then so be it.
IM not saying that people are open to being banned arbitarily, there should always be a reason, but I dont think it has to be justified to a few people who dont see the bigger issue that the site sees.

At least, thats my person opinion on the matter. As I said, I dont make site policy, but I think this sort of thing steps around the technicalities of policy in to the realms of decorum. And that is completely subjective, and will never please everyone all of the time.