The Republic of Stronger Beers..?

Dabko

This has being tickling my jibblets for a long time now.

Why are all the off-sales of lagers on sale in the republic of Ireland higher alcohol content and larger volume cans than the north??

Take for instance the good ol' home barbie. Up north, you get these 440ml cans with 3.8%. As these home affairs are generally a day long event, you open your first tin just before your lunch and are tipping away for the day.
Come 8 or 9 that evening, you are still in a conversational, upright position, which is great in front of friends and in laws. Even late into the night, you are still in a semi-state of coherence.

Now, lets head south of the border. You start at lunch time - at 6 tins past mid-day, you find your self wanting a dash of shuteye (mainly because it was suggested you "stop drinking for a while, maybe have a lie down...stop making a holy show...bla bla!")

I have tried and tested this over and over. Smaller cans of lighter beers would be a great idea. I also now bring all my beers back from the north, not because they are cheaper but because they are a more sociable tool than the stronger stuff here.

And don't get me started if its Heineken 5%. That stuff is fine for the Europeans on the continent where 3-4 bottles is a session and then home. No no, not here!

Is this just a ploy by the booze makers like diageo or heineken to keep us paddy's good and plastered and spending money on...more booze??

B0X

It's up to yourself to be responsible with your own drink, not the can and not the brewerys. I'd much prefer to have proper beer than watered down crap in a smaller can (and I can only assume being Ireland we'd be charged the same price)

bijapos

Heineken = beer

Give me a decent tasting beer any day over the usual muck you get here and I'll pace myself, thanks. Personally would not ouch a northern 3.8% can of piss.

Reminds me of Sweden about 15 years ago where any beer you got in a supermarket was 2.8%. Jesus wept. And it was all Heino-Fosters stuff. Hope they have moved on.

Dabko

B0X wrote: »

It's up to yourself to be responsible with your own drink, not the can and not the brewerys. I'd much prefer to have proper beer than watered down crap in a smaller can (and I can only assume being Ireland we'd be charged the same price)

I see your point on the responsible drinking stance, this is true, yes. I always advocate people taking resonsibility for their own chioces and so on.

However, my point is more so on the social aspect and the drinking culture in Ireland, which, lets face it, is always centered around drinking, drinking and more drinking.
For those of us who drink beers on a social level 'because that's what ya do' as opposed to on a 'connoisseur' level, my question is why we have no options to choose from a weaker "watered down crap" which would have us less intoxicated and let us pace our sessions a bit better?

Go into an off-licence, you have 2 choices - 0.0% content or 4.3% content (of course with the exception of castlemaine...?)

Dabko

bijapos wrote: »

Heineken = beer

You know what i mean.

rubadub

Dabko wrote: »

Go into an off-licence, you have 2 choices - 0.0% content or 4.3% content (of course with the exception of castlemaine...?)

Dunnes & tesco have own brand beers which are quite low, I think one might be only 3%, bass is low. There is massive variety in a decent offie. They will bow to market demands. The UK traditionally have had lower % beers we have not. I view us as the more "normal" ones, the more suitable question is why are the UK ones so low.

There is nothing to stop you simply diluting your beer with soda water, after all most big brand ones are brewed to a higher % and diluted and carbonated.

BeerNut

Dabko wrote: »

Is this just a ploy by the booze makers like diageo or heineken to keep us paddy's good and plastered and spending money on...more booze??

As you can probably see from the other replies in this thread, this is no-one's fault but the paddies ourselves.

In the UK there is a longstanding tradition of good-quality sessionable beers at less than 4% ABV. The market is conditioned to accept that beers of this strength can still be high quality, and even when they're not, a low ABV won't be a deal-breaker for the UK drinker.

Whereas the first thing paddy looks at is the ABV, and if it's not 4.3% or above, paddy thinks it's

B0X wrote:

watered down crap

(Paddy tends not to realise that all factory-made beers -- his Guinness, his Heineken, his Bud, his Miller, his Coors, his Stella -- are all brewed to a high gravity and then watered down.)

Becks Vier is particularly telling. Brewed primarily for the UK market it is (as the name suggests) 4% ABV. Except market research must have indicated that the Irish would not accept this as a full-price beer, so they dilute it slightly differently -- to 4.3% -- for here. You'll notice too that the locally-brewed American light lagers Bud Light and Coors Light put the ABV right at the front of the marketing message: if the target market thought for a second that these were somehow low in alcohol it would be a death knell for the brand.

The more immediate solution to your problem is Smithwicks: it's 3.8% ABV, but of course Diageo don't like putting that information about, for obvious reasons.

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

the more suitable question is why are the UK ones so low.

World War I.

oblivious

rubadub wrote: »

The UK traditionally have had lower % beers we have not. I view us as the more "normal" ones, the more suitable question is why are the UK ones so low.

WW1 as the Beer Nut said, here is a good blog posting on it

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-is-british-lager-so-weak.html

rubadub wrote: »

There is nothing to stop you simply diluting your beer with soda water, after all most big brand ones are brewed to a higher % and diluted and carbonated.

Especially if you your customers don't know what a good lager is

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

WW1 as the Beer Nut said, here is a good blog posting on it

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-is-british-lager-so-weak.html

It's a bit clearer here, I think.

Dabko

some great answers there, cheers.

It does seem that people down south assume that if its not rocket fuel, we are being ripped off.
I was at a party lately where the host had a keg of mid-strength Guinness (amongst other things!), so i said, why not, was wondering what noticeable difference there might be.
Well, Jaysus, the slagging that started was rather funny. "Hey, look at this pansy with his west coast cooler..." and the likes.
Not a bad pint was my conclusion, and i lasted the whole night drinking it. Would have had the same size feast of pints of half strength as i would have had regular Guinness. Still had a bloody great night aswell.

The more immediate solution to your problem is Smithwicks: it's 3.8% ABV, but of course Diageo don't like putting that information about, for obvious reasons.

Did not know that. But ale aint exactly my thing, i dont have enough road frontage either!:D

oblivious

Dabko wrote: »

The more immediate solution to your problem is Smithwicks: it's 3.8% ABV, but of course Diageo don't like putting that information about, for obvious reasons.

Is the 3.8% ABV just the bottle version?

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

Is the 3.8% ABV just the bottle version?

All versions, AFAIK (except, presumably, the US version as the good Captain points out -- it's not something you'd catch me drinking in America ).

oblivious

I thought the draught version was 4.2%, oh well

rubadub

Dabko wrote: »

It does seem that people down south assume that if its not rocket fuel, we are being ripped off.
I was at a party lately where the host had a keg of mid-strength Guinness (amongst other things!), so i said, why not, was wondering what noticeable difference there might be.

Many people drink to get drunk, like it or not. Alcohol is used as recreational drug and so some will value it as such. I know a guy who does not like the taste of beer, but drinks it solely to get drunk. Many times it is mismatched in price so some people consider these varying margins to be a ripoff. e.g. the mid strength guinness will have less duty and I would guess less ingredients so should be a lot cheaper. I think some low alcohol beers might be actually more expensive to produce, if they brew normally and then have to further process it to bring the % down.

Would have had the same size feast of pints of half strength as i would have had regular Guinness. Still had a bloody great night aswell.

Or you could have pints of water in between normal pints. A "feast of pints" costs a lot.

A analogy would be people buying wispas instead of dairy milks, same apparent portion size (volume wise) but one is full of air and about half the weight. But they cost around the same price.

oblivious wrote: »

I thought the draught version was 4.2%, oh well

Thought it was 4% myself, guinness is 4.2% many presume it is 4.3% like so many others.

Blisterman

Budweiser is 5% here, and 4.3 in Ireland if I recall correctly, so it works both ways.

Has anyone else noticed how drinks subtly get their ABV reduced, without any reduction in price?

Jack Daniels is 40%, and it used to be 43%.
Stella is 5% now, and it used to be 5.3%.

It's a scam.

BeerNut

Blisterman wrote: »

It's a scam.

It's commerce. I mean, it's not like they're contractually obliged to keep the ABV up. If it bothers you, don't buy their products.

petethebrick

They should make the beer we get here stronger not weaker. 4.3% is still a bit watery for my palate - the average percentage should be upped to 5% here like it is on the continent and in most other countries.
You'd be as good drinking coke as you world that 3.8% muck from the north.

BeerNut

petethebrick wrote: »

4.3% is still a bit watery for my palate

You're just reading numbers. It's perfectly possible to make beers that are full-bodied and full-flavoured at less than 4%.

If wateriness is a problem, stop drinking lager.

oblivious

petethebrick wrote: »

They should make the beer we get here stronger not weaker. 4.3% is still a bit watery for my palate - the average percentage should be upped to 5% here like it is on the continent and in most other countries.
You'd be as good drinking coke as you world that 3.8% muck from the north.

Really:rolleyes:, try something other than a mass produced lager

Dabko

petethebrick wrote: »

You'd be as good drinking coke as you world that 3.8% muck from the north.

Wow, i must be have no taste buds at all! Pretty sure the carslerg from the north was pretty much the same taste as down south.

I will say one thing though - Murphys from the north is utter piss. Full stop!

donaghs

Greene & King's IPA (not the best IPA out there) has a strong flavour off it. Most Irish lager drinkers wouldn't like it because of this strong flavour. But its ABV is actually only 3.6%

The influence of alcohol of the taste difference between 4% & 5% is negligible. Its only really noticeable in 6%+ Belgian beers like Duval and Chimay.

BeerNut

BrewDog make a 198-IBU double IPA hop-bomb which is 3.5% ABV.

the_syco

bijapos wrote: »

Reminds me of Sweden about 15 years ago where any beer you got in a supermarket was 2.8%. Jesus wept. And it was all Heino-Fosters stuff. Hope they have moved on.

They sell Banana Kopperberg with 6% still, me thinks.

guildofevil

I really like well made low alcohol beers. If you can get a tasty beer that happens to have less alcohol, then so much the better. That means I can drink more!

The first beer that I ever made a second time was affectionately know as quaffer. An ale with lots of crystal malt and 100g of First Gold hops in four additions, this 3.6% Vol. beer was a real crowd pleaser.

Hmm. Haven't made it in a while. On the to-brew list it goes.

the beer revolu

I think what we need is consumer choice.
We could argue ad nauseam about whether beer should be 3.8% or 5.2%, the fact is, it should be both and lower, and higher.

Personally, I like a quaffing beer to be in or around 5% - but that's just me.
I often like something much stronger and have enjoyed far weaker beers than this.

While we shouldn't value beer by it's strength, many people are completely ignorant of the strength of what they are drinking and drink all beer at the same rate and in the same amounts and then blame the beer if they're too/not enough drunk!

Two key words here:

Choice
Responsibility