95% of Irish people believe in god

markopantelic

i presume it refers to christian god since we don't have any real other religions in terms of numbers in the country.

how can this be so?

--amadeus--

Where does that figure come from? This for example has church attendance at 84% (and thats a figure coming directly from a catholic source so bound to overstate the case)

Max Power1

60% of statistics are made up

achtungbarry

Max Power1 wrote: »

60% of statistics are made up

53% of people know that.

Tyler MacDurden

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Where does that figure come from?

Original story was in the Indo on Wednesday:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/despite-scandals-we-still-believe-in-god-1767738.html

By John Cooney


Wednesday June 10 2009

WE may no longer be a church-going nation but just over 95pc of us still believe in God.

This is revealed in a survey, 'The Challenge of Indifference: A Need for Religious Revival in Ireland' by Jesuit sociologist Fr Micheal Mac Greil which will be launched this evening in Maynooth College by Cardinal Sean Brady.

The study will reveal how a national sample of 1,015 adults interviewed in 2007 and 2008 feel about religious attitudes, beliefs and practices.

It is the third national survey carried out by Fr Mac Greil over the past 35 years. His first survey in 1972-1973 provoked controversy when a number of commentators challenged its finding that in spite of growing secularisation 91pc of Irish Catholics were attending Mass at least once a week.

In 1989 the number fulfilling weekly Mass attendance dropped to 85pc, but in 1995, after the standing of the Irish Church was hit by the emergence of sexual scandals such as the revelation that Bishop Eamon Casey had fathered a son with American divorcee Annie Murphy, the figure dipped to just 64pc.

The publication of Fr Mac Greil's latest findings will be examined closely by the Catholic bishops for fresh evidence of how the clerical child abuse scandals have affected Mass attendance.

It is understood a major finding is that religious belief has survived at an exceptionally high level in spite of a substantial decline in practice among young people.

- John Cooney

In the spirit of public disclosure, I must admit that Fr Mac Greil is a relative of mine, albeit quite distant. (Both genealogically and spiritually )

Dades

As mentioned in another thread, the results of a survey by a Jesuit priest titled "The Challenge of Indifference: A Need for Religious Revival in Ireland", need to be taken with a bucket of salt.

There's no cause for alarm.

partyatmygaff

Wow, do you feel threatened or something?
Maybe you need to go preach your supposed "enlightenment" a bit more.

Seriously if your happy with being an athiest or whatever you don't need to force everyone else

Flamed Diving

That means that 9 out of 10 people I know believe in God.

Funny, considering that most people I know don't believe in any kind of god.

Zombrex

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Wow, do you feel threatened or something?

Well yes, given the ridiculous harm religion and religious faith has done across the world and specifically in Ireland I think a lot of people are hoping for the day when that statistic says a big fat zero.

--amadeus--

Beaten to teh punch by Dades...

Anything in the Indo I take with a portion of salt anyway but this survey is a bit like all teh tobacco sponsored "research" in teh 50's and 60s that said smoking was harmless. Hardly independent now was it?

Zombrex

Flamed Diving wrote: »

That means that 9 out of 10 people I know believe in God.

Funny, considering that most people I know don't believe in any kind of god.

Most people I know would say they believe in "God" but when the discuss becomes more detailed the "God" they believe in tends to end up being a rather wishy washy version of God and heaven, far removed from say the Christian God.

I think people like the idea of God, and I think a lot of people simply don't think about it too much.

Handsome Bob

Surveys are futile if you don't take a good cross sectional sample in terms of geography and age. No offence to the researchers, but it just looks like their sample came from standing outside a few churches, with the occasional passer by being an atheist.:pac:

--amadeus--

You can muddy the waters pretty effectively if you have an agenda by framing the questions correctly:

- Do you believe in a "benign higher power" (the entity commonly called God)?

- Do you believe in the interventionist God who continually monitors our behaviour and will punish our sins on Judgement Day?

Both questions technically are looking for the same thing (belief in god) but you could ask the exact same people those 2 questions and get radically different results. Even more so if you give a 1 - 5 rating on the first; with 2 being "somewhat believe" I guarantee that most people - even maybe 95% of people - would probably hedge thier bets and avoid an outright 1 in that case. That way you don't have to faff about manipulating samples and can claim that your survey is 100% representative.

Lies, damned lies, etc.

Overblood

95% of Irish people let their mammy fill in the census.

Húrin

markopantelic wrote: »

i presume it refers to christian god since we don't have any real other religions in terms of numbers in the country.

how can this be so?

Why assume it to refer to the Christian God? In my experience the God most people believe in is not one prescribed by any of the official religions, but perhaps what one might describe as a post-Christian God. Which is to be expected. If the pollster simply asked if someone believes in God, there is no need to assume it must be Christian. Believing in God and being a Christian are two very different things.

Wicknight wrote: »

Well yes, given the ridiculous harm religion and religious faith has done across the world and specifically in Ireland I think a lot of people are hoping for the day when that statistic says a big fat zero.

I am cynical enough about human nature to argue that a homogenously atheist society would be just as likely to harm its own people as a homogenously theistic one. Diversity seems to be a safer bet.

Dumb

Did you know that 87% of all statistics are made up?

achtungbarry

Dumb wrote: »

Did you know that 87% of all statistics are made up?

It's been done already.

Max Power1 wrote: »

60% of statistics are made up

Go stand in the corner. :pac:

Galvasean

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Anything in the Indo I take with a portion of salt anyway but this survey is a bit like all teh tobacco sponsored "research" in teh 50's and 60s that said smoking was harmless. Hardly independent now was it?

Actually, a lot of that research suggested that cigarettes were good for you! :pac:

Dumb wrote: »

Did you know that 87% of all statistics are made up?

Max Power1 wrote: »

60% of statistics are made up

Well, according to some very reliable statistics I have been given, I can conclude that at least one of you is lying.

Crucifix

Checking the most census data that looks about right. Agnostic, atheist and no religion has about 5%

Flamed Diving

Indeed.

http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_5/vol_5_2006_complete.pdf

I still find it hard to believe though. Maybe if you restricted the age range to people in their 20s you would get something closer to what I expect.

Dades

Crucifix wrote: »

Checking the most census data that looks about right. Agnostic, atheist and no religion has about 5%

See any religious survey on Boards in, say, After Hours, and then ask how many of those voters filled in their own details on the census form.

studiorat

Galvasean wrote: »

Actually, a lot of that research suggested that cigarettes were good for you! :pac:

Cigarette smokers are 50% less likely to get Parkinsons Disease or Altsheimers Disease BTW.

yawnstretch

I believe in God.

Calibos

studiorat wrote: »

Cigarette smokers are 50% less likely to get Parkinsons Disease or Altsheimers Disease BTW.

And Mouth Ulcers. Don't forget the mouth ulcers. Plagued with mouth ulcers everytime I bit my lip up to the age of 21. Not had one in the last 14 years. Started smoking at 21. Why I started smoking at an age where I should have had more sense.....thats a whole nother kettle of fish

Zombrex

yawnstretch wrote: »

I believe in God.

It is ok, he doesn't believe in you

stevejazzx

Húrin wrote: »

I am cynical enough about human nature to argue that a homogenously atheist society would be just as likely to harm its own people as a homogenously theistic one. Diversity seems to be a safer bet.

I really hate this argument. It is such a poor argument. Even if you were right what's the point in giving them religion in the first place as a means of rationalising their madness. People may have to actually think about stuff instead filling in the automatic answers that religion offers. And if henious crimes are committed there is no place to hide. It is stomach churning to know that there are people out there who think that the death of millions would be ok if it advanced the prospect of their religion gaining a dominant place in the world. I think diversity is a great idea but only groups who do not believe in completely unsubstaniated myths should be acknowledged. Becasue we might harm ourselves anyway is not in anyway a reason for ignoring the systems of power that currently preside. It's like saying that one should leave a child alone with a knife becasue even if the knife was removed it is possible the child might find a blade. It's the law of averages, remove all possible barriers to advancement and the chances of advancement increase.

fatmammycat

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Wow, do you feel threatened or something?
Maybe you need to go preach your supposed "enlightenment" a bit more.

Seriously if your happy with being an athiest or whatever you don't need to force everyone else

Hmm, last time I checked atheists weren't calling to doors or saying you have to be an atheist to enroll your kid in a school. Force? What are you talking about?

Mark Hamill

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Wow, do you feel threatened or something?
Maybe you need to go preach your supposed "enlightenment" a bit more.

Seriously if your happy with being an athiest or whatever you don't need to force everyone else

Wouldn't you feel threatened if a survey came out that said 95% of people believed in Santa Claus?

Galvasean

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Wouldn't you feel threatened if a survey came out that said 95% of people believed in Santa Claus?

Not if the survey was done in a pre-school.

grames_bond

yawnstretch wrote: »

I believe in God.

Kyle Gass?

Dades

grames_bond wrote: »

Kyle Gass?

Ha - that was the first thing that into my mind too. Very funny album.

markopantelic

how many people in ireland do ya reckon are proper religous?

OK-Cancel-Apply

In 50 years, I bet religion will be gone completely

bou

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

In 50 years, I bet religion will be gone completely

In the next 50 years, society as we know it has a better chance of disintegrating into chaos than religion dying out.

shqipshume

why the hell do people care who believes what :rolleyes:

shqipshume

markopantelic wrote: »

how many people in ireland do ya reckon are proper religous?

When it comes down to 98% of Irish people believe in it ;)even when they say they dont.

Galvasean

shqipshume wrote: »

why the hell do people care who believes what :rolleyes:

Because people tend to lobby the Government based on their beliefs, effecting us all.

Húrin

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Wouldn't you feel threatened if a survey came out that said 95% of people believed in Santa Claus?

I would feel that my chances of getting presents would be threatened.

stevejazzx wrote: »

I really hate this argument. It is such a poor argument.

You may hate it, but I think that the way I see people is supported by history.

Even if you were right what's the point in giving them religion in the first place as a means of rationalising their madness.

Who are you talking about? I don't care about prescribing religion. I just am pointing out that atheism is no magic wand. The existence of religion is just the way things are, so we must start from there.

People may have to actually think about stuff instead filling in the automatic answers that religion offers.

Plenty of both religious and atheists think about stuff, and plenty in both groups subscribe to whatever fashions or memes are around them.

And if henious crimes are committed there is no place to hide.

Unless you're a determinist (i.e. disagree with freedom of the will), like many if not most atheist naturalists are.

It is stomach churning to know that there are people out there who think that the death of millions would be ok if it advanced the prospect of their religion gaining a dominant place in the world.

Yes. It is. It is equally stomach churning to know that there are people out there who think that the death of millions would be ok if it advanced the prospect of their ideology (say, democracy, capitalism, communism, or rationalism) gaining a dominant place in the world.

I think diversity is a great idea but only groups who do not believe in completely unsubstaniated myths should be acknowledged.

That's no diversity at all. Freedom of belief if a cornerstone of diversity. Who gets to set the yardstick as to what 'myths' are unsubstantiated.

Becasue we might harm ourselves anyway is not in anyway a reason for ignoring the systems of power that currently preside.

I agree entirely. I oppose oppressive religious institutions, but I see them as a consequence of the human tendency to oppress when in power over other humans. It is not a consequence of anything special about religious beliefs. There are plenty of secular examples of oppressive institutions, and plenty of religious communities that do not oppress anyone.

It's like saying that one should leave a child alone with a knife becasue even if the knife was removed it is possible the child might find a blade.

I see what you mean, but I think that another 'blade' will almost certainly be found unless we're a little bit more clever about it than just blaming 'irrational beliefs' for all the problems of the world.

Húrin

Galvasean wrote: »

Because people tend to lobby the Government based on their beliefs, effecting us all.

It seems that in recent years there has been a tendency to stereotype all Christians as right-wing, overly politicised, evolution-hating fundamentalists. This stereotype is imported from the US media, not based on reality here. Much like the stereotype of all Muslims as violent maniacs, etc.

Galvasean

Húrin wrote: »

It seems that in recent years there has been a tendency to stereotype all Christians as right-wing, overly politicised, evolution-hating fundamentalists. This stereotype is imported from the US media, not based on reality here. Much like the stereotype of all Muslims as violent maniacs, etc.

I'm not trying to stereotype anyone. But as we know the fundamentalists tend to be the ones who do most of the lobbying (side note: same is true for atheism in addition to religion).

Húrin

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm not trying to stereotype anyone. But as we know the fundamentalists tend to be the ones who do most of the lobbying (side note: same is true for atheism in addition to religion).

But you implied that the beliefs of all religious people mattered because they all lobby government to affect the rest of the population. That is simply not true. The majority of people who do the religion thing don't go for loud proclamation or lobbying.

Zombrex

Húrin wrote: »

But you implied that the beliefs of all religious people mattered because they all lobby government to affect the rest of the population. That is simply not true. The majority of people who do the religion thing don't go for loud proclamation or lobbying.

Do they vote?

Galvasean

Húrin wrote: »

But you implied that the beliefs of all religious people mattered because they all lobby government to affect the rest of the population. That is simply not true. The majority of people who do the religion thing don't go for loud proclamation or lobbying.

Where did I say they all do it? I said 'people tend to lobby the Government based on their beliefs, effecting us all.'
Stop looking for things to argue about.

Húrin

Wicknight wrote: »

Do they vote?

I would assume, lacking any evidence otherwise, that religious turnout at polls is similar to that of the population at large.

Zamboni

I couldn't care if it was 1% or 99%.
Still doesn't make it true

dvpower

Húrin wrote: »

But you implied that the beliefs of all religious people mattered because they all lobby government to affect the rest of the population. That is simply not true. The majority of people who do the religion thing don't go for loud proclamation or lobbying.

Until one suggests that schools or hospitals shouldn't have a religous ethos or that we should seperate church and state or that references to religion shouldn't exist in constitutional law.

Guill

95% belive in god(i.e. Christian) or any GOD?

Húrin

dvpower wrote: »

Until one suggests that schools or hospitals shouldn't have a religous ethos or that we should seperate church and state or that references to religion shouldn't exist in constitutional law.

In which case hardly anyone cares enough to change the status quo. It doesn't mean that people are fervently behind the Catholicism of most hospitals and schools.

I am a theist and I think that these places should be secularised too. So try not to stereotype people.

Abaddon

I think Hurin makes a valid point. You can't assume that because You might be passionate about atheism and a secular agenda that those who believe in a deity should be equally passionate about a religious agenda. I'm sure we all know many who never set foot in a church, or pay their religious superiors any heed, yet will insist their children are baptized and receive the various sacraments. I think this may be true for a great many believers in Ireland, especially Roman Catholics and Anglicans...

jimbling

Believing in God and being religious are two completely different things.

A survey like that is going to throw anyone that is not an atheist into the %. It's pretty easy to believe that the population is only about 5% Atheist.

I would imagine that there is a much higher % that are agnostic though. And Agnostics shouldn't really be down as believing in God, but you can be sure that they are.

Húrin

jimbling wrote: »

Believing in God and been religious are two completely different things.

A survey like that is going to throw anyone that is not an atheist into the %. It's pretty easy to believe that the population is only about 5% Atheist.

I would imagine that there is a much higher % that are agnostic though. And Agnostics shouldn't really be down as believing in God, but you can be sure that they are.

I would speculate that Ireland is at least 50% agnostic.