Religion is not a private matter?

--amadeus--

BrianCalgary wrote: »

...Religion is not a private matter...

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm just tired of OTT secularism trying to tell us how we should live our lives. From a nurse asking to pray for someone in the UK, to people on here telling us it isn't acceptable to have a small prayer before a game. I have to just sometimes sit and wonder what on earth do these extremists have next in line for us.

I'm not sure what it is exactly about the attitude above that I find hair raising but it is so totally alien to my own (lack of) beliefs that it really did take me by surprise. In fact if I didn't know the back story to the two posters involved I would have suspected a wind up.

I find teh idea of a coach - in a non-religious community team - insisting on saying a prayer with the team before the game to be totally hair brained. And while it might not bother a lot of people and I wouldn't be offended by it I certainly wouldn't want a nurse offering to pray for me (apart from anything I'd be worried about what she knew about my condition that I didn't :pac:). And I would have thought that most people - religious or not - would see that. They would have considered faith and religion to be a private matter, between each person and thier clergyman or god. But it seems thats not universally true. In fact some religious feel that they have the right to pull religion into every aspect of thier lives.

I'm not talking here about religion cropping up in conversation and someone defending or discussing thier viewpoint ("ohhh you've bought a CD, what is it?" "Oh it's an audio bible to play in the car..." type stuff). It's that some religious feel a need to trumpet thier faith even in inapropriate settings and totally out of context.

And then it dawned on me. When I lived in London I knew a few gay people and some of them had the same flamboyant attitude. Out and proud and they would let everyone know within minutes of meeting them that they were gay. Which was fine but if you'd just asked what they wanted from teh bar it was a bit out of place. Others though you would never know. It wasn't that they hid it or were ashamed it just wasn't *that* big a deal to them. If you asked about thier homelife they might mention say "oh I live with my boyfriend" or whatever but it was a part of them, not what defined them. The louder ones though (gross generalisation and amateur psychoanalysis) were often newer "out" or were younger and they seemed to be making a deal out of it more for themsleves than whoever they were talking to, it always came across as a bit insecure and needy. It seems quite common in minorities - the aggressive taking of the trait that sets them apart and glamourising of it. "Queer" and "queen" were once huge insults to gay men, now they are names for trendy clubs and have lost a lot of teh power to sting. You can't get a rap album without hearing the "N" word and Travellers here are fiercely proud of thier culture.

So - long winded (sorry) - but my point is could we see the attitudes above as being a sign that we are culturally transitioning from a situation where religion and teh religious are in an overwhelming majority and culturally set teh tone to a stage where it is now a minority practice? Or am I offbeam altogether, is there nothing wrong with this public declaration of faith, after all some on here are vocally anti-theist.

Mods - i would have put this in Christianity as thats the host forum for teh quotes above but in light of teh charter change I thought it might come across as Christian bashing, please move if its better suite to there, thanks

liah

You say "teh" a lot.

Overblood

Funnily enough, I've never come across any religious person "trumpeting" their faith while I'm out and about in TEH real world. Only here on boards do I see religious loonyness.

Zombrex

--amadeus-- wrote: »

It's that some religious feel a need to trumpet thier faith even in inappropriate settings and totally out of context.

They don't see it as inappropriate, that seems to be the crux of the matter. I suppose it is hard to see something that you feel as being the fundamental truth about the universe and humanity as inappropriate.

If you try to explain or try and get them to relate to how it could be inappropriate they get defensive and blame "OTT secularism" for trying to ban their religion or something.

Húrin

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I find teh idea of a coach - in a non-religious community team - insisting on saying a prayer with the team before the game to be totally hair brained.

This must be the biggest controversy on boards, ever! The practice may be strange to us but by the reports, it seems to work for the team.

They would have considered faith and religion to be a private matter,
between each person and thier clergyman or god. But it seems thats not universally true. In fact some religious feel that they have the right to pull religion into every aspect of thier lives.

Well the point of religion is that it is communal, not individualist. Which is why it causes tension in our western culture that promotes self-centering.

If you asked about thier homelife they might mention say "oh I live with my boyfriend" or whatever but it was a part of them, not what defined them.

With a lot of religious people, their religion seems to define them and they are happy with that.

achtungbarry

people on here telling us it isn't acceptable to have a small prayer before a game.

Reminded me of this case in Oklahoma.

robindch

Mod note -

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Mods - i would have put this in Christianity as thats the host forum for teh quotes above

No problem with me, but you should link to this thread from the other one (see the second point in this post). Ta.

.

Zombrex

achtungbarry wrote: »

Reminded me of this case in Oklahoma.

It is good that she excludes herself (and thus suffers bullying and segregation from the Christian community) because the prayer is clearly good for team (well the Christians at least), in fact what would be even better is if she just shut up about it and pretended she was a Christian and went along with all if it, no one likes someone who makes a fuss. Converting to Christianity, even better!

:rolleyes:

anonymous_joe

The only religious group that's ever been in my face are atheists.

As someone whose agnostic really, it seems to be quite offensive that a group of people try and change what I believe.

Zombrex

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The only religious group that's ever been in my face are atheists.

As someone whose agnostic really, it seems to be quite offensive that a group of people try and change what I believe.

When has an atheist ever been in your face? How does that even work when you are an agnostic?

stevejazzx

Húrin wrote: »

This must be the biggest controversy on boards, ever!

Tell me about it..no matter how it was explained to them they just didn't want to accept any wrondoing.

Galvasean

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The only religious group that's ever been in my face are atheists.

Absolute garbunkle! Atheists are not religious.

Iwasfrozen

anonymous_joe wrote:

As someone whose agnostic really, it seems to be quite offensive that a group of people try and change what I believe.

Believe ? Your Agnostic, how can you accuse atheists of trying to change what you believe when you're not even sure what you believe ?

dvpower

I can't see how religion can be kept private.

Christians believe that those of us who don't accept Jesus Christ are doomed to an eternity in hell (or something). Imagine knowing that and keeping it to yourself? For some it must be like seeing an out of control car careering towards a pedestrian and not shouting out.

Religion should be treated like any other set of beliefs; like your politics or choice of football team, but its a free country; people can hold and express views no matter how strange they are. But there is an appropriate time and place and I think that was the (ignored / misunderstood) point of that other thread.

Zombrex

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see how religion can be kept private.

Christians believe that those of us who don't accept Jesus Christ are doomed to an eternity in hell (or something). Imagine knowing that and keeping it to yourself?

Billions of Christians have been telling people they are sinners and deserving of hell for the last 2,000 years. I think it is ok if they stop now. Everyone knows

Húrin

stevejazzx wrote: »

Tell me about it..no matter how it was explained to them they just didn't want to accept any wrondoing.

Much like the posters in this thread who are responding to anonymous_joe's comment about atheists asserting their views about religion, 'in his face'.

JimiTime

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see how religion can be kept private.

Christians believe that those of us who don't accept Jesus Christ are doomed to an eternity in hell (or something). Imagine knowing that and keeping it to yourself? For some it must be like seeing an out of control car careering towards a pedestrian and not shouting out.

Its good to see such an understanding.

Religion should be treated like any other set of beliefs; like your politics or choice of football team, but its a free country; people can hold and express views no matter how strange they are. But there is an appropriate time and place and I think that was the (ignored / misunderstood) point of that other thread.

Unfortunately in that thread, people were confounding two seperate issues. Who Brian is and what he does, with Attempting to indoctrinate, convert, risk isolating others etc. The fact is, Brian is who he is. If his ways are merely annoying, get over it and move on. If you think they are damaging, join another team or complain to a relevant party if needs be. The fact is, the football team in question are just that, a football team. They are not religious, nor are they secular. Brian is who he is, and you either tolerate it, like it, or don't. I really do think that some of the atheists there overstate the 'problem'. This whole, 'yeah but he shouldn't' is neither here nor there. He does, and that is him. The club, the man, the players or the parents don't have an issue. In the real world, they don't see damage being done etc. They just see a good coach, who seems to care for the players and happens to be a very public Christian.

dvpower

I don't want to get into the specifics of that thread here. To be honest, its been done to death and there just isn't going to be agreement.

But theres a wider arguement as to what limits religions should put on the expression of their religion. I think that there should be some, in a similar way that I think there should be limits on political parties expressing their views, or any other group for that matter.

JimiTime

dvpower wrote: »

I don't want to get into the specifics of that thread here. To be honest, its been done to death and there just isn't going to be agreement.

But theres a wider arguement as to what limits religions should put on the expression of their religion. I think that there should be some, in a similar way that I think there should be limits on political parties expressing their views, or any other group for that matter.

I see where you are coming from, I really do. I don't see any need, or reason for the prayer. I 'do' think that it would be better if it wasn't done. However, this is not about religion, this is about a person. A person, regardless of his ways, seems to have the respect of all involved. Like others have said, when it comes to Christianity, it is not a private matter. I happen to believe that this prayer is out of place. Thats me though. I tolerate the fact that not everyone holds that view. So my next question is, 'Does it harm my child?', if the answer is yes, then I go about a few things. Talking to Brian and see if theres a resolution. If that doesn't work, talking to the club, if that doesn't work, taking my child out of harms way. If I think it doesn't do any harm, I swallow it, and move on.

Zombrex

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see how religion can be kept private

Keeping religion private, and secularism in general, is not about the evangelist keeping his religion to himself, it is about him not having a right to get into the faith of the person or people he is talking to.

This is a point that is consistently missed by those on the Christianity forum who see secularism as an invasion of their rights when actually it is attempting to protect those around them.

It is about privacy and equality more than anything, and a recognition that religion divides far more than it brings together (something else that is ignored in these discussions, that secularism originated to help stop religion on religion persecution and segregation, rather than something for atheists)

Religious information should be volunteered, not expected.

A person should opt-in, not be expected to opt-out.

stevejazzx

Wicknight wrote: »

A person should opt-in, not be expected to opt-out.

Like people who bring their guitars to parties.:o

Dades

LOL. They should be put out.

dvpower

Wicknight wrote: »

Keeping religion private, and secularism in general, is not about the evangelist keeping his religion to himself, it is about him not having a right to get into the faith of the person or people he is talking to.

This is a point that is consistently missed by those on the Christianity forum who see secularism as an invasion of their rights when actually it is attempting to protect those around them.

It is about privacy and equality more than anything, and a recognition that religion divides far more than it brings together (something else that is ignored in these discussions, that secularism originated to help stop religion on religion persecution and segregation, rather than something for atheists)

Religious information should be volunteered, not expected.

A person should opt-in, not be expected to opt-out.

I think in the public space, religion ought to enjoy the same freedoms as any other set of ideas and should be subject to the same amount of scrutiny and limitations (and sometimes ridicule) as any other set of ideas.

So, in approaching that question on the other thread, I compare it to someone saying a few words about the policies of Fianna Fail* to some kids before a match - it's just not the time or place (unless maybe if the match was organised by the local cumann).
*You can substitute the Green Party, Sinn Fein or the BNP depending on how you view religion

I also think that secularism is an invasion on the 'rights' of religious people, but it is an overdue invasion, because these are rights that they shouldn't have.

Mickeroo

JimiTime wrote: »

I see where you are coming from, I really do. I don't see any need, or reason for the prayer. I 'do' think that it would be better if it wasn't done. However, this is not about religion, this is about a person. A person, regardless of his ways, seems to have the respect of all involved. Like others have said, when it comes to Christianity, it is not a private matter. I happen to believe that this prayer is out of place. Thats me though. I tolerate the fact that not everyone holds that view. So my next question is, 'Does it harm my child?', if the answer is yes, then I go about a few things. Talking to Brian and see if theres a resolution. If that doesn't work, talking to the club, if that doesn't work, taking my child out of harms way. If I think it doesn't do any harm, I swallow it, and move on.

I resisted the temptation to get sucked into the thread over in Christianity. I personally dont think the prayer is appropriate given the circumstances, since the team are not affiliated with any religion, but the fact that the parents or the kids dont seem to be bothered by it......well whats the fuss about?

Galvasean

Húrin wrote: »

Much like the posters in this thread who are responding to anonymous_joe's comment about atheists asserting their views about religion, 'in his face'.

If I walked into the bee hive I would have no right to be surprised if the bees got 'in my face'.

grames_bond

Galvasean wrote: »

If I walked into the bee hive I would have no right to be surprised if the bees got 'in my face'.

why would you want to walk into a bee hive?!

JimiTime

stevejazzx wrote: »

Like people who bring their guitars to parties.:o

Heeey, I resemble that remark! cum baya.....

Húrin

Galvasean wrote: »

If I walked into the bee hive I would have no right to be surprised if the bees got 'in my face'.

So if you surf on into the Christian forum don't be surprised to find Christians who don't agree with you.

Galvasean

Húrin wrote: »

So if you surf on into the Christian forum don't be surprised to find Christians who don't agree with you.

Yes, that's the idea.

Goduznt Xzst

stevejazzx wrote: »

Like people who bring their guitars to parties.:o

lol... no truer words have ever been spoken

Húrin wrote: »

So if you surf on into the Christian forum don't be surprised to find Christians who don't agree with you.

The -ism for the day is: truism

faceman

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I find teh idea of a coach - in a non-religious community team - insisting on saying a prayer with the team before the game to be totally hair brained. And while it might not bother a lot of people and I wouldn't be offended by it I certainly wouldn't want a nurse offering to pray for me (apart from anything I'd be worried about what she knew about my condition that I didn't :pac:). And I would have thought that most people - religious or not - would see that. They would have considered faith and religion to be a private matter, between each person and thier clergyman or god.

IMO your spiritual beliefs are your own business. However If someone says to me "Ill say a prayer that you'll be ok", I interpret that as the individual has me in their thoughts and is wishing me a quick recovery.

Thinking anything otherwise or being offended by it is just a bit bonkers IMO.

ScumLord

faceman wrote: »

IMO your spiritual beliefs are your own business. However If someone says to me "Ill say a prayer that you'll be ok", I interpret that as the individual has me in their thoughts and is wishing me a quick recovery.

Thinking anything otherwise is just a bit bonkers IMO.

It's true, I think it's a nice thing for someone to take time out of their day to sit down and dedicate their thoughts to your well being. It mightn't actually do any good but it is an honorable thing to do for someone.

Zombrex

ScumLord wrote: »

It's true, I think it's a nice thing for someone to take time out of their day to sit down and dedicate their thoughts to your well being. It mightn't actually do any good but it is an honorable thing to do for someone.

I would be some what concerned that the person though it would do some good though, if I was in that persons care.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

I would be some what concerned that the person though it would do some good though, if I was in that persons care.

I think you just look for any possible reason to object tbh. I can't believe, that you would think the above Each to their own I suppose.

Seriously though, and I wont argue with you. Would you really be concerned if someone who was caring for you had faith in the power of prayer? You think it may lead to them leaving you in Gods hands? That they are obviously idiots for believing in a sky fairy, and you don't want an idiot looking after you?

ScumLord

Wicknight wrote: »

I would be some what concerned that the person though it would do some good though, if I was in that persons care.

You can't just assume everyone who's been brought up with beliefs is a nut bag. I'd say there's a huge percentage of "believers" that just haven't bothered questioning their believes because it's not really that important to them.

And anyway if someones bright enough to become a nurse/doctor and is good at their job I'd have faith in their education.

toiletduck

JimiTime wrote: »

Would you really be concerned if someone who was caring for you had faith in the power of prayer?

I personally wouldn't. Although I just hope that the person would pray at the right time, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510460,00.html :pac:

dvpower

JimiTime wrote: »

Would you really be concerned if someone who was caring for you had faith in the power of prayer?

Not at all. It would be a bit of an oddity for me, that's about all. But others might take a different view. For example if someone from a fringe religion, maybe a wiccan from the paganism forum, was to offer to 'pray' for a patient, some might take offence.

I think this stems from the case of the nurse in England who was suspended for offering to pray for a patient. Suspension seems a bit harsh, but they were the rules that her employer laid down, and she did have the option to either opt-out of the praying or opt-out of that job, so everyones a winner, right?

Zombrex

ScumLord wrote: »

You can't just assume everyone who's been brought up with beliefs is a nut bag.

I don't, and I get annoyed by that position because that is actually what believers make out is the secular position when it really isn't.

I don't think every religious person is an issue. But I think some of them are. The point that is ignored is that you often cannot tell which one is going to be an issue until it is an issue.

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

I think you just look for any possible reason to object tbh. I can't believe, that you would think the above Each to their own I suppose.

I think that is because you guys all seem to think I'm objecting as if it were a massive threat or something. I'm not.

If it was a choice between a deeply religious nurse and no nurse at all I would happily take the deeply religious nurse.

The biggest objection I have to any of these sort of debates is that the other side always make a straw man out of how outraged secularists are seemingly acting.

Using an example today if I saw someone let their dog poop in the park and walk away I would think that is bad form. I wouldn't think it is going to cause someone to die, go blind, rape a baby, suicide themselves etc etc etc. If someone who, for some reason, supported free dog pooping (they do exist seemingly) one tactic for arguing against that would be to build up the straw man that I was unreasonably outraged and making unrealistic threats of what might happen (what if someone slipped and fell back and broke their neck!) in an effort to disregard. When in fact all I'm going is saying it is bad form not to clean up your dog poop.

I hate this idea that you can't say something isn't on without others making it out as if you have just said X was going to cause the skin of babies fall off.

You got this in the other thread, me being asked over and over what is the harm in BC saying a prayer, as if unless I can come up with a way that it is putting the children's lives in danger it is perfectly fine.

JimiTime wrote: »

Would you really be concerned if someone who was caring for you had faith in the power of prayer?

Well yes, but again I imagine that is going to be blow out of proportion (I wouldn't be concerned that she was going to leave me dying in the ward while she prayed to Jesus to save me)

I think if you thought about what that actually means (a professional medical carer who believes that prayer will do something) so would you.

JimiTime wrote: »

You think it may lead to them leaving you in Gods hands?

She wouldn't be the first.

That is the kicker with this example. If she believes it works why wouldn't she believe it works

I think most if not the vast majority of people who pray do so in a sort of Catholic grandma way, praying more for their own peace of mind rather than because they believe it actually does something tangible and real. That I don't care about. If it makes someone feel better knock yourself out.

But if I meet someone who is deeply religious and actually believes that praying does stuff I would be quite concerned about this if my health was in that persons care.

I don't want someone caring for me who believes that superstition is the way to cure me. That applies to the nurse saying prayers for me or the homoeopath feeding me distilled water.

I would not want a doctor treating me who believes some discredited medical practice works, for very similar reasons.

Again I'm not saying this will happen, but the only way you find out it will happen is after it has happened.

There are plenty of examples where religious people have given up care of the sick to prayer under the genuine belief that God will intervene in the illness. And unfortunately in some of these cases the person has died.

Now in the HSE or NHS I would not worry that my care would ever get to that stage because the religious nurse would not be the only person caring for me, and the nurse might figure well I'm praying for him but we better do everything else just in case God is happy to let this atheist heathen die.

So again I'm not saying that in every case something horrible will happen. I'm not saying in every case something would happen at all.

JimiTime wrote: »

That they are obviously idiots for believing in a sky fairy, and you don't want an idiot looking after you?

Again with the straw man arguments. You just want me to say "Yes they are an idiot" so you have something to argue against (how dare you call them idiots, plenty of Christians are really smart blah blah blah) because I think you know that my objection to this is reasonable and I doubt you would want someone caring for you that believes praying for you to get better will actually do something.

Zombrex

toiletduck wrote: »

I personally wouldn't. Although I just hope that the person would pray at the right time, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510460,00.html :pac:

That is actually a good example.

The question here would be why wouldn't the man pray? Doesn't prayer do something? Isn't there a chance that God would magically make the plane land safely?

Can Christians explain why that man shouldn't have prayed (I think there was a discussion about this on the Christian forum, Kelly asking the other Christians why do they not expect miracles to happen)

I think most if not the vast majority of religious people do not believe prayer actually does something, that God doesn't actually supernaturally fix things through interaction with the universe or bending of natural laws.

But some religious people, deeply religious people, certainly do.

And if you believe these things do actually happen why would you not pray?

So I certainly think it raises an eyebrow if you meet someone in a position of responsibilty who believes this stuff works, in the same way I would be concerned about leaving my kids with someone who believes she can move things with her mind, or with someone who believes he has an angel protecting him.

I'm not saying lock them up, I'm not saying kick them out, I'm not saying any or even the majority would ever do something so stupid as to put lives at risk like this pilot did.

But concern, yes I think I would stretch that far. A little bit of concern is healthy particularly when someone believes something supernatural very strongly and is in a position of responsibility.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

I think that is because you guys all seem to think I'm objecting as if it were a massive threat or something. I'm not.

If it was a choice between a deeply religious nurse and no nurse at all I would happily take the deeply religious nurse.

The biggest objection I have to any of these sort of debates is that the other side always make a straw man out of how outraged secularists are seemingly acting.

Using an example today if I saw someone let their dog poop in the park and walk away I would think that is bad form. I wouldn't think it is going to cause someone to die, go blind, rape a baby, suicide themselves etc etc etc. If someone who, for some reason, supported free dog pooping (they do exist seemingly) one tactic for arguing against that would be to build up the straw man that I was unreasonably outraged and making unrealistic threats of what might happen (what if someone slipped and fell back and broke their neck!) in an effort to disregard. When in fact all I'm going is saying it is bad form not to clean up your dog poop.

I hate this idea that you can't say something isn't on without others making it out as if you have just said X was going to cause the skin of babies fall off.

You got this in the other thread, me being asked over and over what is the harm in BC saying a prayer, as if unless I can come up with a way that it is putting the children's lives in danger it is perfectly fine.



Well yes, but again I imagine that is going to be blow out of proportion (I wouldn't be concerned that she was going to leave me dying in the ward while she prayed to Jesus to save me)

I think if you thought about what that actually means (a professional medical carer who believes that prayer will do something) so would you.


She wouldn't be the first.

That is the kicker with this example. If she believes it works why wouldn't she believe it works

I think most if not the vast majority of people who pray do so in a sort of Catholic grandma way, praying more for their own peace of mind rather than because they believe it actually does something tangible and real. That I don't care about. If it makes someone feel better knock yourself out.

But if I meet someone who is deeply religious and actually believes that praying does stuff I would be quite concerned about this if my health was in that persons care.

I don't want someone caring for me who believes that superstition is the way to cure me. That applies to the nurse saying prayers for me or the homoeopath feeding me distilled water.

I would not want a doctor treating me who believes some discredited medical practice works, for very similar reasons.

Again I'm not saying this will happen, but the only way you find out it will happen is after it has happened.

There are plenty of examples where religious people have given up care of the sick to prayer under the genuine belief that God will intervene in the illness. And unfortunately in some of these cases the person has died.

Now in the HSE or NHS I would not worry that my care would ever get to that stage because the religious nurse would not be the only person caring for me, and the nurse might figure well I'm praying for him but we better do everything else just in case God is happy to let this atheist heathen die.

So again I'm not saying that in every case something horrible will happen. I'm not saying in every case something would happen at all.



Again with the straw man arguments. You just want me to say "Yes they are an idiot" so you have something to argue against (how dare you call them idiots, plenty of Christians are really smart blah blah blah) because I think you know that my objection to this is reasonable and I doubt you would want someone caring for you that believes praying for you to get better will actually do something.

I said I wouldn't argue, so I'll stick by that. Thanks for explaining your position.

ChocolateSauce

Overall, public religious expression is low-ish. Public prayers are rare, and when they are held the debate is more an intellectual one than anything else; prayers before a Dail sitting may piss us off, but they don't actually hurt the people who are there. The same goes for prayers in hospitals and before games.

The place where prayers and public religion is truly deleterious is the place it is most prolific- the classroom.

dvpower

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Overall, public religious expression is low-ish. Public prayers are rare, and when they are held the debate is more an intellectual one than anything else; prayers before a Dail sitting may piss us off, but they don't actually hurt the people who are there. The same goes for prayers in hospitals and before games.

The place where prayers and public religion is truly deleterious is the place it is most prolific- the classroom.

Hospitals also still have religious ethos, which can have a real impact. For example, in the Mater hospital a few years back they decided to stop trials for a cancer drug because participants were advised to take contraception or abstain from sex. The board of the hospital argued that advising women to use contraception was against catholic doctrine.

--amadeus--

Urk, forgot I started this thread!

I think it boils down to appropriateness. I don't think it's appropriate to bring your personal "stuff" into a professional environment. Part of my job involves delivering training. I'm a vegetarian. I *could* use my platform and captive audience to talk about animal rights. The courses would still be good, people would still learn what they are supposed to and I would hope that most people would enjoy the course. In fact on some of teh courses I could work it into the content and I am pretty sure that no one would complain or object.

But it wouldn't make it right. I would be abusing a position of trust for a start and people on a course don't want to hear about animal rights.

It's exactly the same with religion (or any other strongly held but non-universal opinion). In a personal context talk about whatever you want but if we are in anything other than a social setting then you have a right not to hear my opinions and I have a right not to hear yours, no?

faceman

On a lighter note...

My mother is an actor and many years ago she was starring in a play being put on in Nairobi. The cast was multinational. My mother was and still is Catholic.

Anyway before the curtains opened on the first night she said to one of the american performers, "say a prayer now that we put on a good show". So he did. He stopped what he was doing, closed his eyes and prayed aloud. Turns out he was a Born Again Christian who kept his religious views to himself.

My mother explained to him after that the phrase "say a prayer" didnt literally mean say a prayer. He was quite confused.

JimiTime

faceman wrote: »

On a lighter note...

My mother is an actor and many years ago she was starring in a play being put on in Nairobi. The cast was multinational. My mother was and still is Catholic.

Anyway before the curtains opened on the first night she said to one of the american performers, "say a prayer now that we put on a good show". So he did. He stopped what he was doing, closed his eyes and prayed aloud. Turns out he was a Born Again Christian who kept his religious views to himself.

My mother explained to him after that the phrase "say a prayer" didnt literally mean say a prayer. He was quite confused.

LOL.

dvpower

faceman wrote: »

On a lighter note...

My mother is an actor and many years ago she was starring in a play being put on in Nairobi. The cast was multinational. My mother was and still is Catholic.

Anyway before the curtains opened on the first night she said to one of the american performers, "say a prayer now that we put on a good show". So he did. He stopped what he was doing, closed his eyes and prayed aloud. Turns out he was a Born Again Christian who kept his religious views to himself.

My mother explained to him after that the phrase "say a prayer" didnt literally mean say a prayer. He was quite confused.

She can thank her lucky stars be thankful that she didn't say 'Break a leg'

Hrududu

faceman wrote: »

IMO your spiritual beliefs are your own business. However If someone says to me "Ill say a prayer that you'll be ok", I interpret that as the individual has me in their thoughts and is wishing me a quick recovery.

Thinking anything otherwise or being offended by it is just a bit bonkers IMO.

I agree. To get offended over that would be over the top.

The other day I was on the train and a couple were sitting across the aisle from me. Two girls got on and sat in the seats beside them. I'm not sure where the girls were from but I think it was from somewhere in South East Asia. As soon as the train started moving the man sitting beside them started to talk to them about Jesus. I actually didn't hear how the conversation started. But for the 30 minutes they were sitting there he just would not shut up about it.

One of the girls interrupted him a couple of times to tell him that they were Hindu. She went to make some comparison between Jesus and Krishna and he stopped her. He told her she was wrong. She was very polite and tried to get her point across but he was so rude and arrogant about the whole thing. He kept repeating that Jesus had died for her and that she should accept him into her life.

It was such a strange thing. Because in real life I'd never encountered someone like him before. There are plenty online. But I dont know how those girls remained so polite.

bnt

There's a thread on the UCD forum, about how the campus was invaded by a bunch of Korean Bible Bashers today. They has some spiel about a "survey", a video, and some OTT Jesus ranting. Freaked a few people out, but I'm a bit sorry I missed it: I don't even have to say anything to offend evangelists, I just get this supercilious look on my face, I'm reliably informed ...

Ickle Magoo

My MIL often lights candles and says prayers for me & mine, it doesn't bother me - I find it quite endearing actually. As long as she doesn't expect me to light one or pray with her then I just take it as her way of wishing us well or good fortune.

I think that's when it becomes inappropriate, when others are forced to play a part in what is essentially, a very personal act - although I appreciate that some zealous religious people consider it their duty to tell or share their beliefs because they believe that is a caring and positive position to take or it just doesn't occur to them that anyone else would feel differently or object.

It would certainly worry me if a medical professional actually believed the power of prayer held any kind of significance to my recovery and I don't think it's appropriate for anyone to offer unsolicited religious prayer or guidance while working in their professional capacity - unless a member of the clergy - and even then, I would consider it inappropriate to approach someone who had shown no interest or declined from having such an interaction.

I remember being in hospital after having my daughter. I was pretty sick and I had to endure daily visits from a priest asking if my daughter was to be blessed. I said no thank you, I didn't want her blessed but he insisted on coming into my room daily and repeating the request. I was tired and sore and I certainly could have done without a blindly-impassioned priest invading not only my room but challenging my request on a daily basis - I can only imagine what people of other faiths must think of that kind of behaviour in a public place of healing.

faceman

Hrududu wrote: »

I agree. To get offended over that would be over the top.

The other day I was on the train and a couple were sitting across the aisle from me. Two girls got on and sat in the seats beside them. I'm not sure where the girls were from but I think it was from somewhere in South East Asia. As soon as the train started moving the man sitting beside them started to talk to them about Jesus. I actually didn't hear how the conversation started. But for the 30 minutes they were sitting there he just would not shut up about it.

One of the girls interrupted him a couple of times to tell him that they were Hindu. She went to make some comparison between Jesus and Krishna and he stopped her. He told her she was wrong. She was very polite and tried to get her point across but he was so rude and arrogant about the whole thing. He kept repeating that Jesus had died for her and that she should accept him into her life.

It was such a strange thing. Because in real life I'd never encountered someone like him before. There are plenty online. But I dont know how those girls remained so polite.

Jaysus, where did this happen? What a muppet! IMO religion doesnt make that guy oppresive, his muppet personality does.