Beth Ditto - great role model or bad example?

Dragan

LivingDeadGirl wrote: »

punk is rubbish

Good punk is never going to be something you find in the mainstream to be honest. As for Ditto, nope, not what i would call a good role model. Don't get me wrong, be happy with yourself and do what you want to do.....but promoting being overly overweight is just as bad as promoting being overly underweight to me.

*sits back and waits for the thyroid argument to come up*

Madame Razz

994 wrote: »

Isn't she meant to be some sort of punk?

A manky sort!!!

Tbh I would consider her being punk a little far fetched IMO.

In fact she's doing a disservice to punk by even claiming so.

I won't consider her as any sort of role model tbh; but then I don't consider 'celebrities' as role models anyway.

There are plenty of singular, admirable people in my midst daily, with whom I interact with and admire in many ways. I don't need to buy a magazine or log onto some gossip site to find me role models tbh.

Heck, I never even look for role models really; I prefer to admire REAL people's attributes and mindsets whilst remaining very much my own person.


Each to their own I guess...

Dudess

allabouteve wrote: »

The woman is unhealthily fat. Perez Hilton is too, and this is what likely flavours his opinion.

But what's amusing is it's ok for him to make fun of e.g. Jessica Simpson putting on a lot of weight, because she used to be a "skinny bitch" so she "deserves" it...

DarkJager wrote: »

Personal opinion, don't get offended

Don't you mean it's your suspicion she's a lesbian because men wouldn't go near her, rather than your opinion? Seeing as an opinion is a subjective view rather than a fact, and your point is overwhelmingly likely to be incorrect?

I'm in agreement with the general consensus here - being complacent about, and celebratory of, obesity = bad; not letting it hold you back, while at the same time acknowledging it's unhealthy and doing your best to work on it/spread a message of healthy eating and exercise = good.

Plus, the bandwagon-jumping inspired by Beth Ditto is hilarious - people like Anna Wintour and Karl Lagerfeld are apparently queuing up for a piece of her. It's quite condescending because it sure as heck ain't out of a sense of duty to include overweight women in fashion - kinda reminds me of the Susan Boyle thing. As someone I read today said: "She's become such a household name, not in spite of her weight, but because of it."

Dolbert

This thread reminds me of when Heat printed pictures of a then morbidly obese Michelle McManus on the beach in her swimsuit, with a caption to the effect of 'Good on ya Girl'... Er, why exactly? Because being that overweight is somehow a positive thing?
This is coming from a fellow chubster btw!

Dudess

I wouldn't mind so much if those magazines were consistent, but the following week - or even within that same issue - there was probably a piece taking the piss out of Michelle McManus.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't mind so much if those magazines were consistent, but the following week - or even within that same issue - there was probably a piece taking the piss out of Michelle McManus.

Which will only be dictated by your willingness to do a piece with that magazine anyway.

GirlInterrupted

28064212 wrote: »

Actually, the difference between the likes of Pavarotti and Beth Ditto is that nobody is suggesting that Pavarotti is a good role model because of his weight. Ditto uses her obesity as a selling point, and constantly flaunts the fact that she is overweight and portrays it as a good thing. And I've heard plenty of people criticising Johnny Vegas

Absolutely. And Pavarotti was lambasted in the continental press for his size, in spite of his talent (which was simultaneously revered), which I for one must say was gargantuan in comparison with a person like Beth Ditto.

I totally agree that she is every bit as bad of a role model as someone who is painfully thin. I saw a 35 year old colleague drop dead from a heart attack in front of me when I worked in the States, because she was obese (and as a result, diabetic). Being that overweight is NOT OK and it has nothing to do with aesthetics.

As for Beth Ditto, she's everything I dislike in a woman. She's loud, crass, obnoxious, has no class, no manners, seeks attention by walking around in her underwear. She is an awful role model, and my dislike of her has nothing to do with her appearance (for what it's worth, I think she's quite pretty).

Nevyn

Faith wrote: »

To be honest, I've never heard of her outside of perezhilton.com, where all the stories are about how amazing she is for being fat and proud, or how brave she is for wearing clothes that are designed for very thin women.

Actually I have heard of her other then just one website.
I really think that you need to maybe rethink judging her based of one site.

Faith wrote: »

So yes, I am saying that the majority of exposure about her is due to her appearance, rather than her talent or music.

Based on what you have read on 1 website?

Faith wrote: »

That's exactly my point - it doesn't. She's just as bad a role model, but for some reason, she's being embraced for her obesity. No-one looks at a picture of Slash and says "Ah, it's fantastic that he's embracing his alcoholism!", so why should people cheer on Beth Ditto for embracing her weight problem?

Nope for the abilty to be different and say fúck it and get on with what she wants in life instead of crying over an article in a magazine.

Faith wrote: »

She is an example of the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.

I don't think it is, I think it all smacks to much of the FAT Lady at the side show carnival, she so different that it's like a freak show and fair enough if she wants to embrace that to get publicity thats her call.

Faith wrote: »

It's obviously a backlash from stick-thin anorexic models and actresses, but it's just as dangerous, if not more so, to be morbidly obese as stick thin.

IF we were at that stage then Sophie Dhal would have stayed a size 14/16 and not be a size 12 now and I don't think that it is more dangerous then being under weight it just less acceptable.

I would easily say that the number of young girls who are negatively impacted by her pictures is less then .000001% of those who have been negatively impacted over the last 10 years by pictures of models and the accepted figure of women in the media.

Faith wrote: »

I understand that some people may feel that, by lauding Ditto's weight, it may encourage others to realise that they don't have to be a size 0 to be attractive, but you then run the danger of people buying into this idea too much, and putting their own health at risk being obese and thinking it's fine because Beth Ditto says it is.

Stupid sheep like people will always be stupid sheep like people tbh.

b3t4

I haven't heard much of her stuff but I like her voice. It's different and I like that.

I find it silly to box people into a certain 'model' because of their weight.

I'm glad we're going from saying that the heroine chic was cool to saying obese is cool because at some point, in our human pysche, we'll realise that in between is where we need to be. Society, I find, likes to deal in the extremes as we can lay judgment on either end. It's pretty easy to spot the extremes in life and us, as humans, like to point out the obvious

Beth Ditto is a person, should we forget, and she's as flawed and wonderful as the rest of us. If she's happy then I don't feel it's anyone's place to tell her otherwise.

In my opinion, trying to attach her to anything else going on in the world is a bit dramatic.

well horse

She's not happy with her weight at all; it just seems implausable. She probably engages in some sort of cognitive dissonance to pretend to herself that she dosen't mind being that weight, rather than lose it.

MadgeBadge

Dragan wrote: »

Good punk is never going to be something you find in the mainstream to be honest. As for Ditto, nope, not what i would call a good role model. Don't get me wrong, be happy with yourself and do what you want to do.....but promoting being overly overweight is just as bad as promoting being overly underweight to me.

*sits back and waits for the thyroid argument to come up*

Oh, does she have an under-active thyroid? If so it's a pretty valid reason to be fairly over-weight.

I'd hate to see Dragon disappointed.

Cianos

Beth Ditto is an extreme example and on the other end of the scale there are the size 0 models. 90% of the population fall somewhere in the middle. It's good to have role models on either end, so that girls can find for themselves who to look up to. If there were no people like Beth Ditto getting media coverage (for whatever reason), there would be a lot more pressure on girls to achieve the 'perfect' (or in context, 'media-standard') body proportions and in turn feel horrible about themselves when they fall short. So hers and other non model sized women take pressure off girls simply by providing a presence in the media landscape that contradicts the conventional model type.

Just because Beth Ditto gets coverage because of her body size, doesn't mean it's a promotion of obesity. No girl is going to read an article and then run down to McDonalds to look just like her - everyone wants a healthy body. But a lot of people don't have and never will have a healthy body. Thus it's good to have personalities in the media that can reassure people that you can be confident and happy about your body image no matter what size you are, as there are role models at either end of the scale.

So in practical terms the message could be something like; "I wish I had Kate Moss' figure. Well, look at Beth Ditto, she's a lot bigger than I am and has confidence, I guess I shouldn't feel so bad about my body all the time."

jenizzle

So is she actually promoting being fat or just promoting a postive attitude towards your body? I doubt she got that big on purpose just to annoy skinny people :rolleyes:

fatmammycat

Beth Ditto has a rocking voice, and she knows she's fat and is not trying to pretend otherwise. In interviews she comes across as funny and self-deprecating, but also unapologetic. I would hate to be her size, but I hardly think she is promoting fatness as the ideal. She's intelligent, been with the same partner for years and worked incredibly hard-from a background of extreme poverty- to get to where she is today. Frankly I'd take her as a role model over plenty.

Dragan

MadgeBadge wrote: »

Oh, does she have an under-active thyroid? If so it's a pretty valid reason to be fairly over-weight.

I wouldn't.

Average weight gain caused by thyroid issues would be about 5 to 12lbs i believe.

Not 50.

CathyMoran

[quote=[Deleted User];60696622]I totally agree that she is every bit as bad of a role model as someone who is painfully thin. I saw a 35 year old colleague drop dead from a heart attack in front of me when I worked in the States, because she was obese (and as a result, diabetic). Being that overweight is NOT OK and it has nothing to do with aesthetics.

As for Beth Ditto, she's everything I dislike in a woman. She's loud, crass, obnoxious, has no class, no manners, seeks attention by walking around in her underwear. She is an awful role model, and my dislike of her has nothing to do with her appearance (for what it's worth, I think she's quite pretty).[/quote]
The diabetes and obesity argument is the same as the thyroid one...not all diabetics get their illness as a result of obesity and a lot of us suffer from anorexia as a result - type 1 diabetes (insulin dependent) is not caused my obesity and not all cases of type 2 are either. Am a type 1 diabetic by the way and a size 6-8.

Similarly the thyroid argument - while I am sure that in limited circumstances it can cause extreme weight gain that has not been my experience (or of any other people I know who have these issues).

In terms of Beth, she is no more a role model than the anorexic looking models we see on the catwalk - she is not overweight, she is morbidly obese and she celebrates the fact.

purple_hatstand

I could be wrong, but I don't think BD reaches as wide an audience as say, Britney Spears or the Pussycat Dolls who would be fairly poor role-models imo.

But, I have to say, if you're looking to the likes of HEAT magazine and perezhilton.com for your role-models, you're already lost...

MadgeBadge

Dragan wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Average weight gain caused by thyroid issues would be about 5 to 12lbs i believe.

Not 50.

There's nothing average about the weight gain or loss caused by thyroid problems, from what I've witnessed amongst the majority of my family.

There also appears to be nothing average about Beth Ditto. Surely she's not trying to spread the word that her figure is ideal and healthy? If not then why do we have to ear mark her as either a great role model or a bad example?

God I'd hate to be famous.

Dragan

MadgeBadge wrote: »

There's nothing average about the weight gain or loss caused by thyroid problems, from what I've witnessed amongst the majority of my family.

I assume all of them have had there T3 and T4 levels, and TSH levels checked?

Thyroid issues will cause either metabolic slow down or speed up, if it's slow down then people should adjust there diets accordingly.

Personally, if i had thyroid issues the weight gain would be the worst of my fears. But nobody ever really seems to get the other symptoms.

Look, don't take my comment personally, if your family members have Thryroid issues then that's pretty harsh, but the simply fact of it is that about 50% of the people who claim to have thyroid problems have either incredibly minor issues or none at all. It's become the autodefence for the overweight.

MadgeBadge

Dragan wrote: »

I assume all of them have had there T3 and T4 levels, and TSH levels checked?

Thyroid issues will cause either metabolic slow down or speed up, if it's slow down then people should adjust there diets accordingly.

Personally, if i had thyroid issues the weight gain would be the worst of my fears. But nobody ever really seems to get the other symptoms.

Look, don't take my comment personally, if your family members have Thryroid issues then that's pretty harsh, but the simply fact of it is that about 50% of the people who claim to have thyroid problems have either incredibly minor issues or none at all. It's become the autodefence for the overweight.

No no, nothing personal. To be honest I don't know an awful lot about it, apart from what I previously stated. That I witnessed more weight gain (and dramatic loss) that what you suggested in various members of my family. I couldn't possibly even tell you what a T3, T4, or indeed a TSH level is.

Dragan

MadgeBadge wrote: »

I couldn't possibly even tell you what a T3, T4, or indeed a TSH level is.

Basically T3 and T4 are the hormones produced by the Thyroid and TSH is the signaller for it to do so. By getting these measured with the proper tests people can find out exactly what kind of problems they have and then take the correct steps.

At the moment they just kind of get passed over and ignored but by asking for these tests it can make their life a LOT easier.

WindSock

Well put it this way. She wouldn't be as well known if she wasn't obese. Just another pop gimmick as far as I am concerned.

Macha

It's good that she presents an image of the female body that doesn't fit in with the norm but to be honest, I find it as hard to relate to her body as I do Gisele Bundchen's.

well horse

Lol @ the fact girls dont realise most lads like a girl with a small bit of weight rather than being below average in weight

IanCurtis

Thaedydal wrote: »

Funny how we don't see the exact same thread about Johnny Vegas who is a lot fatter and a lot less talented but then again that is not as much of a crime cos he's male.....

Johnny Vegas openly says he is fat because he eats too much.

I don't think I've ever heard a fat woman say that - they're too busy being "curvy", "voluptuous" and "bubbly"

To quote another fat man, who admits he eats too much, Ricky Gervais:

"It's not glandular, it's greed".

metaoblivia

I wouldn't consider Beth Ditto a role model because of her weight, in the same way I wouldn't consider Lindsey Lohan a role model because of hers. To me, they're opposite ends on the same spectrum of the kind of damage unhealthy eating can have on the body.
Now, I don't think either should be persecuted for their issues either. I'm not familiar with Beth Ditto's music, but obviously some people like it given the amount of press she's received. I'm glad her weight isn't standing in the way of that. But I don't believe her weight is something to celebrate. I'm also disturbed by the hypocrisy of the media. As other posters have pointed out, when Jessica Simpson put on a few pounds (a few pounds that made her more of a normal shaped woman and not anywhere close to obese or even that much overweight, I would argue), the media pointed and jeered. And yet, some of those same media types praise Beth Ditto. What message does that send to women and girls? That it's okay to be super skinny or medically obese, but not okay to be somewhere inbetween? That's what's really ****ed up.

Malari

IanCurtis wrote: »

Johnny Vegas openly says he is fat because he eats too much.

I would still consider Johnny Vegas a better role model as he lost a lot of weight recently because of health issues and spoke about it on talk shows.

JC 2K3

WindSock wrote: »

Well put it this way. She wouldn't be as well known if she wasn't obese. Just another pop gimmick as far as I am concerned.

Exactly.

And pop gimmicks are never good role models.

Snowie

(hopes i make sense)

I was always a fan of the prodigy as kid liam howlet was like my god, and if my music productions skills where 1/8 of his id be a happy man, but for years my parents thought Keith Flint was my role model which never made sense...

But my point being the out spoken and the slightly off the norm or bad publicity, has always got the attention of the press, because there's something to talk about...


Would it not be the media hyping up this "role model" because its new, who the hell wants her as a role model? only to over weight kid's and again her sheer sise creates that shock factor which get's people talking about her...

I'l give her a year before shes on the scrap heep with the other one album hit wonder's if her band make a second album it'le flop bye which point she'l have a ridicules ego....